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Sura 4:82 A Challenge
for Islam. Posts 742. Views 6597.
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Starjade Joined: 28
February 2006
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Kayyam you said: I've got you pinned down now Starjade and I am not going to let you up.
Starjade says: hahaha oh I am the one who has you pinned down
and you dare not let this matter go for then you must face the matter
of why Muhammad believed in Jesus and why 11 Chapters of the Koran glorify
Jesus as being the Prophet that Jesus has proclaimed himself as being.
That is 11 Chapters of errors found in the Koran that you shirk away
and dare not face. Starjade says: I have no need of desperation as I have shown staggering lists of errors found in the Koran that Muslims cannot give any answer for. 11 chapters of the Koran glorify Jesus as being the Prophet that Jesus has proclaimed himself as being and Muhammad himself believed in Jesus and so that is a whole lot of errors found in the Koran. Seawright is not an archaeologist and that is the point. Wyatt is an archaeologist and he also gave references to the source of his data. But as his word agreed with mine you say let us ignore the word of an archaeologist let�s instead listen to the word of Caroline Seawright a full time worker, part time traveler, anime and manga lover and HTML programmer! That is where you got your data from. So you are the one in the bind. Kayyam you said: She has not formulated any new interpretations of her own. Your time would be more wisely spent if you would read one of those references instead of scrutinizing her bio for dirt. What follows are posts that you have still failed to respond to. Kayyam Starjade says: That link you gave the scholar Hanifan gave way back in 2004. There are errors in her data and she is not an archaeologist. Wyatt is. Yet you condemned him even though his data was true. Now out of right nice kindness I even did not use the name Nefure for your sake and where did that get you eh. Still with the names Maatkara and Hatshepsut which are still pertaining to the daughter of the Pharaoh Thutmose 1 and she was the one who adopted Moses. She was not married at that Time and was just a daughter of the Pharaoh. She only became married when Moses killed the Egyptian and had to flee Egypt. Maatkara Hatshepsut the daughter of the Pharaoh Thutmose 1 then had to become married and she married her half brother. 40 years after she married Moses. So her marriage then does not count. It was the daughter of the Pharaoh who adopted Moses and so the error does exist in the Koran alongside 11 Chapters of the Koranb glorifying Jesus as being (tee hee) the Prophet that Jesus has proclaimed himself to being. Which you know very well is in fact the very Prophet that the Koran glorifies Muhammad as being. (tee hee) no wonder you want to shirk. I shall have to look at you other posts later as my computer Time is ending. Face the fact errors do exist in the Koran. And the Koran made the error in saying it was the wife of the Pharaoh when in fact it was the daughter all along. __________________ |
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Starjade
Joined: 28
February 2006
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Well now Kayyam i have looked at your other posts and have already replied to them already.
Repeating them will not help you out of your situation The daughter of Thutmose 1 was the one who adopted Moses. She was not married at that Time. So she was not the wife of the Pharaoh as the Koran claims.
Perhaps
you should write to Caraline Searight and complain to her for giving
you incorrect data. Mind you by your own admission she was not an archeologist
so what could she know eh.? __________________ |
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Starjade Joined: 28
February 2006
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But as this forum is on a wobbly you may wish to pretend you did not read my reply. So here it is again for your sake Kayyam.
Kayyam you say: There are lots of errors in your "research". First, you are calling Pharaoh Maatkare Hatshepsut by the erroneous name "Nefure". She had only two names: her birth name Hatshepsut and her throne name Maatkare.
Starjade says: There are no errors in my research. Hatshepsut
was her name and Maatkare and Nefure. That is already three so
in the beginnings you make the errors. She had other names also
with variations on Nefure. Either way no matter for it was the
daughter of the Pharaoh Thutmose 1 who adopted Moses and no matter what
you call her or what anyone else calls her she is still the one who
adopted Moses and she was not married at that Time which exposes the
fact that she was not the wife of any Pharaoh as the Koran claims.
So the Koran is in error the error that I had mentioned.
Starjade says: It is you who is slithering away from the fact that no matter what name is used for Nefure Hatshepsut she was still the daughter of Thutmoses 1 and she adopted Moses and she was not married at that Time making the error that is found in the Koran. In fact you are avoiding that fact altogether. None of your links even mention Moses. And many websites quote allsorts of wrong data that you seem to happily collect.
The debate was on who adopted Moses. The daughter of the wife. Egyptian history shows it was the daughter of the Pharaoh Thutmose 1 not his wife. His daughter Nefure Hatshepsut was not married to any Pharaoh at that Time and So the Koran is in error. Whiles the Old Testament is proven to be genuine in its data.
The Koran is in error making the false claim that it was the wife of the Pharaoh who adopted Moses. It was not in fact it was the daughter of the Pharaoh just Old Testament claimed. And by the way wake up Kayyam. You have been sifting through Egyptian history recently just as I once did and the name Ma'at-ka-Ra - is a common name which I clearly would not have missed. Could you really think I would not have heard of that name also hahaha In fact I did give you links where I started my researching which was originated from your mentioned Caroline Seawright as given to me in the beginnings by a Muslim.
http://www.touregypt.net/historicalessays/hatshepsut.htm
I have always known of Nefure Hatshepsut by that name Ma'at-ka-Ra but wanted to give the dogs a bone to gnaw upon. I researched on further than that because I saw discrepancies in her text. People have many names for Hatshepsut. How could you think I would not have known that name.
However the matter is not in a name of the persona who adopted Moses but in the fact that the Koran claims that she Hatshepsut the daughter of Thutmoses 1 who clearly was the one who adopted Moses was in fact the wife of the Pharaoh. Whereas as you well know that just is not true is it.? Hatshepsut was not married at the Time she adopted Moses. Her own father was the Pharaoh but was only a co. Regent until Pharaoh Ahmose died. Hatshepsut had already adopted Moses whiles her father was co regent Pharaoh. It was only after Moses killed the Egyptian and fled Egypt that Nefure Hatshepsut Ma'at-ka-Ra became married.
These facts show that the Koran is in error. The Koran made the error of saying it was the wife of the Pharaoh who adopted Moses when that could not be true. So there is no error in my words. I did give you some links and was not diligent as they led you to the more knowledgeable Wyatt who knows far more data than stupid Caroline Seawright. Wyatt is a true archaeologist whereas your Caroline Seawright. Hardly a mistake causing the world to end eh.
But apart from that I am right. It was the daughter of the Pharaoh who adopted Moses and it is not the wife as the Koran claimed and so the Koran is the book that has that error in its pages misguided the congregations.
Oh and Kayyam you are shirking this matter of the belief that Muhammad had in Jesus and how Muhammad believed Jesus to be the Prophet that Jesus has proclaimed himself to being. You are shirking the fact that 11 Chapters of the Koran glorify Jesus and believe Jesus was (cough) the Prophet that Jesus has proclaimed himself to being.
Jesus claimed that he was the Deuteronomy Ch 18 verses 15./18 Prophet that God promised Moses he would raise up. That is why they call Jesus the king of the Jews. Erm Which (tee hee) Prophet was it again that Muhammad then proclaims himself to being Erm which Prophet is it that the whole of the Koran proclaims Muhammad to being eh.? I can understand why Muslims want to shirk away from that serious 11 Chapters of errors found in the Koran but surely you have some explanation to those many many many errors that are clearly seen to exist in the Koran.
And no yackle about Egyptian adoptions is going to allow you an escape from those many errors that exist in the Koran in fact more than 11 Chapters worth of errors existing in the Koran. But nice try though. I can see why you have appeared and whiles you yackle on about Egyptian mummies Islam is biting the Dust. Muslims are shirking. They have no explanation as to why 11 Chapters of the Koran glorify Jesus as being the Prophet that Jesus has proclaimed himself as being. No Muslim on earth can get out of that 11 Chapters of serious errors found in the Koran. Did it just not occur to the followers of Islam as to why they called Jesus the King of the Jews. That Prophet to the Nation.
(cough) Erm which Prophet was it Muhammad has proclaimed himself as being without any witnesses to back up his claims huh? Oh that is right Muhammad claims he is the very Deuteronomy Ch 18 v 15/18 Prophet the same Prophet that Jesus has proclaimed himself as being 1000 years before Muhammad was even born tsk tsk tsk.
Muhammad believed Jesus was that Prophet that Jesus claimed himself as being. 11 Chapters of the Koran glorify Jesus as being that Prophet that Jesus has proclaimed himself as being. Yet Jesus claimed he was that Prophet of Deuteronomy Ch 18 v 15/18 that the living God promised Moses he would raise up. That specific Prophet to the Nation.
Muhammad who believed in Jesus then proclaims that he alone is that Deuteronomy Ch 18 v 15/18 Prophet that the living God promised Moses he would raise up. That Prophet to the Nation. Now come along Kayyam nice attempt at misdirection but that is a serious mistake made by Muhammad and the Koran which makes the adoption of Moses almost irrelevant. 11 Chapters of the Koran glorify Jesus and all because Muhammad believed in Jesus and believed that Jesus was the prophet that Jesus has proclaimed himself to being. Oh dear oh dear oh dear. What a calamity. That is more than 11 Chapters of errors found in the Koran.
You are not going to be able to excuse your way out of that. Best grab a Camel run the shirkers shirk to the desert and bury your head deep in the sand. Whiles thinking of these words which offer little comfort. Sura 4:82 Do they not consider the Koran with care for if it had come from any other than Allah then surely they would have found much discrepancy therein. The Challenge of the Koran has hath Starjade saying Dumb Dumb Dumb Dumb and Islam bites the dust.
Now come along Kayyam what have you got to say about that. __________________ |
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Starjade Joined: 28
February 2006
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Explain to everyone here Kayyam exactly which Pharaoh was it that the Koran is saying his wife adopted Moses. Be specific. Then explain exactly which Pharaoh it was that the Old Testament states it was the daughter of what? Pharaoh adopted Moses. Who are you saying adopted Moses. Which Pharaoh is the Islamic followers believing adopted Moses. Do you have these answers. If you do not answer but shirk then we all know that you just do not know and in that I say do not speak of things you know nothing about. The Koran claimed it was the wife of the Pharaoh who adopted Moses. So then state exactly which Pharaoh you are saying that Hatshepsut who is known to be the one who adopted Moses was married to before she adopted Moses. Show the evidence she was married before she adopted Moses. Show the evidence of the Pharaoh you name being that Pharaoh that the Koran claims was the adoptive father of Moses after all if the female who adopted Moses was married then he would be the adoptive father of Moses wouldn�t he. So name him.
I have already named the female who adopted Moses she is very well known and by many names and she was not married at that Time and so I do not expect you to give an answer but your acting as if you have the answer so let us all know exactly what Pharaoh was the Koran speaking about.? And show the evidence. You have already named Maatkara Hatshepsut as the one who adopted Moses and yet her father was only a co regent Pharaoh at that Time. She only became married after Moses killed the Egyptian.
So why not explain who you think is this elusive Pharaoh that the Koran claims his wife adopted Moses. After all it is most strange when Egyptian history says Maatkara Hatshepsut who was the daughter of the co regent Pharaoh Thutmose 1 was not married at that Time and it was her own father who went on to become the main King Pharaoh of the whole of Egypt. Only to later insist his daughter marry her half brother so they did not lose their ruling Crown to another family and to carry on the reigns their religion and of power over Egypt.
Which incidentally shows that Maatkara Hatshepsut was still not married at that Time. She would not have needed to marry her half brother if she was already married. The logic of that reasoning shows she was not married at that Time and her husband went on to become known as Thutmose 11. That shows he followed Thutmose 1 who was his own father as well as Nefure Hatshepsut Maatkara�s. Of course tectonically Thutmose 11 he was really Thutmose 111 because Moses was originally Thutmoses 11 until he gave up his right to that throne and all Titles then went to his adoptive mothers husband hence he became Thutmose 11 in place of Moses. Yet he would have been Thutmose 111 if Moses had no children.
Of course Egyptian records are none too keen to speak of their loss in war with the living God of Moses or anyone else and it is natural that Egyptians do not keep any records of their losses in battle. The Old Testament and the Koran both speak of the adoption of Moses and so from a religious point of view there is no doubt that the event happened surely. Or do you now deny that saying the records of the Old Testament and the Koran are both wrong and telling lies for some obscure purpose.?
So then who was the one who was married to the female at the Time she adopted Moses. What was his name in your view and show your evidence. __________________ |
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Starjade
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Here is a link to a Jewish online encyclopaedia they have a most strange tale of the adoption of Moses. They say the daughter of the Pharaoh was called Bithiah, As I have said Kayyam there are many names used by many people used for Hatshepsut Maatkara. . http://www.jewishencyclopedia.com/view.jsp?artid=830&letter=M#2849 here is a link to some more yackle. http://answering-islam.org/Quran/Contra/moses_adoption.htm
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Starjade Joined: 28
February 2006
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Starjade Joined: 28
February 2006
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So
that Islamic sound of Silence eh. Muhammad believing in Jesus does not help any either i mean how awkward is that tsk tsk tsk..... As I have pointed out. There are errors in the Koran that can only be explained away by one obvious conclusion which is pointed out in the Sura 4:82 of the Koran. Sura 4:82. Do they not consider the Koran with care for if it had come from any other than Allah then surely they would have found much discrepencies therein. 11 Chapters of the Koran are plenty of errors and too many for anyone to discount. Starjade has the achiles heel of Islam eh. So the Koran has bitten the Dust. __________________ |
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Starjade Joined: 28
February 2006
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Starjade says: Of course one must be careful what you read and believe. The tales spun in this Jewish encyclopaedia. IT CLAIMS Moses healed the Pharaoh�s daughter of leprosy.
Starjade says: Then these stupid Jews make further mistakes speaking of this (cough) angel Gabriel,
Starjade says: No real Jew would ever speak of the Angel Gabriel as if it was real. It is clear that Gabriel originated in a dream that Daniel had whiles in a deep sleep and Daniel described a man not any Angel. It is the writers of the New Testament using the character Luke who invented Gabriel as being an Angel and so these tales read here are just fabricated lies.
Starjade says: And these Jews call Nefure Hatshepsut Maatkara by the name of Bithiah. That is four names pertaining to the Pharaoh�s daughter. The fact is Kayyam many people call that same female by different names but it is no matter for it was the daughter of Thutmose 1 who adopted Moses and she was not his wife but his daughter and she was not married to anyone at that Time. So the Koran is in error for it was only the daughter of the Pharaoh who adopted Moses not his wife. Of course I understand why you make up excuses as to why you shirk this matter of 11 Chapters of the Koran glorifying Jesus as being the Prophet that Jesus has claimed himself as being. I can see why you would go silent in the shirk. After all no Muslim on this Planet can explain away why Muhammad believed in Jesus or why 11 Chapters of the Koran glorify Jesus because the Koran is glorifying Muhammad as being the very Prophet that Muhammad and the Koran believed Jesus to be. The very Prophet that Jesus claimed himself as being is the long awaited Deuteronomy Ch 18 v 15/18 Prophet that the living God promised Moses he would raise up. But nobody bothered to give that information to Muhammad. So whiles he believed the tales of Jesus as being true causing 11 Chapters of the Koran to glorify Jesus as being Gods Prophet. Muhammad then claimed himself to being the very same Prophet that God promised Moses he would raise up in Deuteronomy Ch 18 v 15/18. So of course you are going to weedle out of attempting a reply to those matters you cannot explain away and make excuses it is over this issue of a name of the Pharaohs daughter. But it is obvious why you are silent and shirking. It is because of those inexplicable 11 Chapters of errors found in the Koran.
Sura 4:82. Do they not consider the Koran with care for
if it had come from any other than Allah then surely they would have
found much discrepency therein. Well
the Koran has been considered with care and too many errors are found
therein and by the Koran's own admission the Koran did not come from
the Living God.
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have you ever thought working for hollywood starJET -->
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Starjade Joined: 28
February 2006 |
Nah but i do
have plans on making my own movie of the apocalypse and placing it on
a DVD so everyone can see the future that they have yet to face. __________________ |
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Starjade Joined: 28
February 2006
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So then Kayyam O silent one you discount the word of an established by Deuteronomy law real live Prophet with a provable connection to the living God and an acclaimed archaeologist and Egyptian history for the word of Caroline Seawright a full time worker, part time traveller, anime and manga lover and HTML programmer! As the place where you got your data from which you prefer and insist to be conveniently true. Even though it clearly is not. And your main moan is that I use the name Nefure as a first name of Hatshepsut the daughter of Thutmose 1 who was the daughter of that Pharaoh who is known to have been the one to adopt Moses. And who was not married at that Time as logic dictates was not the wife of any Pharaoh.
I have also given you a link to a Jewish online encyclopaedia where they have a most strange tale of the adoption of Moses. They say the daughter of the Pharaoh was called Bithiah, As I have said Kayyam there are many names used by many people used for Hatshepsut Maatkara. http://www.jewishencyclopedia.com/view.jsp?artid=830&letter=M#2849 Then again here is another link where they call Nefure Hatshepsut Maatkara Bithiah by the name of Thermuthis. Ref, Josephus Ant. 2.9.7 Sometimes called Tharmuth, who they say was the daughter of Pharaoh who adopted Moses. Book of Jubilees 47:5 http://www.biblefacts.org/myth/moses.html
Holy Eeeketh where does it all end all these names for just one female who adopted Moses. But then what is in a name. It matters not what the variety of people call that female. The fact is she was still the daughter of the Pharaoh Thutmose 1 and she was not married to anyone at the Time she adopted Moses. This shows that the Koran is in error for the Koran claims it was the wife of the Pharaoh who adopted Moses when that is just not true in fact it was as the Old Testament said it was the daughter of the Pharaoh who adopted Moses and she was not married at that Time.
Kayyam you unfairly insist that I show the sources of these names because they were not chiselled in stone on tombs which would not happen anyways and yet these are names used by historians and Egyptologists and a variety of religious people to identify an individual. So it is a matter of choice as to which name to use to speak of that specific individual which will always be the daughter of Thutmose 1. So there is no error in the words of Starjade on these matters. Why even I the much loved Deuteronomy Doomsday Prophet Starjade have many names all referring to just one person. That does not mean many exist or different people exist it just means many know the same person by different names.
Just because a person says one thing of Egyptian history that does not make the matter true as many do not take the Time to go researching what others are saying and in researching what others are saying names and dates all vary and get changed from those different views. Caroline Seawright is no archaeologist or expert on such matters. So you will have to go through a lot of data to get some sense of it all. Trust me that is a chore. In my case it was not so bad for the Muslim Hanifan did raise an interesting point as the explanation as to why the Koran said it was the wife of the Pharaoh who adopted Moses which was because she was the daughter of the Pharaoh and also married at that Time which could be the daughter and the wife of the Pharaoh at the same Time.
When I researched Nefure Hatshepsut Maatkara Bithiah Thermuthis. I began my research with Hatshepsut then when other names came along I looked at those names also collecting the data of that same person. The names did not put me off for I wasn�t researching the name but the person. I was only researching that person that daughter of Thutmose 1 to see if she was married at that Time. She was not married at that Time she adopted Moses and she only became married after Moses Killed the Egyptian and fled Egypt. Her father Thutmose 1 clearly and obviously was the Pharaoh at that Time and he married Hatshepsut off to her half brother and only then was she married some 40 years after she adopted Moses. So the matter is concluded logically Hatshepsut was not married or the wife of any Pharaoh when she adopted Moses and that shows the Koran is in error.
Like it or not I shall remind you anyways. Sura 4:82. Do they not consider the Koran with care for if it had come from any other than Allah then surely they would have found much discrepancy therein.
I have named lists of errors that exist in the Koran proving that the Koran does not come from God as Muhammad and you Muslims claim. So do you suddenly ignore the Koran when it admits those facts. Islamic law states you must reject what is found to not be true and you must accept by Islamic law what is found to be true. It is true many errors do exist in the Koran and be sure you if you ignore those facts then you are knowingly worhipping a false god and a false prophet and doctrines that did not come from God and are not Gods words.
(tee hee) So does that free you up then to speak on this matter of why Muhammad believed in Jesus and why 11 Chapters of the Koran glorify Jesus as being the Prophet that Jesus has claimed himself as being or dare you not face those explanations you cannot give an explanation for just yet.? 11 Chapters of the Koran are in error and standing against Deuteronomy law which was brought down by Moses from the living God himself which makes Deuteronomy law Ch 19 v 15 to be the actual word of the living God and it is then Gods word that you are discounting and ignoring.
Explain why Muhammad believed in Jesus when Deuteronomy law establishes Jesus as being a fraud and not the Prophet that Jesus is claimed as being. Explain why Muhammad made that mistake. Explain why the Koran glorifies Jesus as being the Prophet Jesus has claimed himself as being then goes on to glorify Muhammad as being the Prophet that Muhammad has claimed himself as being.
How can Muhammad claim himself as being that Deuteronomy Ch 18 v 15/18 Prophet when he believes in Jesus after all Jesus has already proclaimed himself as being that specific Deuteronomy Ch 18 v 15/18 Prophet. Why the Koran glorify both Jesus and Muhammad as being the very same specific Deuteronomy Ch 18 v 15/18 Prophet that the living God promised Moses he would raise up. Explain why the Koran defies the word of the living God when it is a known fact that the living God only promised to raise up one Prophet.
And we all know already who that specific Deuteronomy Ch 18 v 15/18 Doomsday prophet is. It is of course the much loved Deuteronomy Doomsday prophet Starjade the one and only Lord King of this apocalyptic castle. As established of course as these religious things should be done by the law Deuteronomy Ch 19 v 15 a law brought down by Moses himself from the living God and is therefore the actual word of the living God.
You can all be complacent as much as you want. But whiles you commit such blasphemy remind yourself that I am in Judgements of you all and I do have the power to stone entire continents to death in earthquake rubble. I suggest you take a look at the people of today�s world as they live and die with that reality. You all know Blasphemy carries a death penalty a death by stoning. So if you want to blaspheme well do not be so complacent to think that you will be safe.
In Islam there are those who hide the truth and they are called Kuffars. You can hide away in a shirk if you choose to but that does not mean these matters go away just because you ignore them. To deny the facts I have presented when it is clearly obvious what I have said is true then that makes you a Kuffar and to walk away from this debate when my word is proven to be true makes you then a shirker.
Take a close look at Indonesia and that earthquake and the volcano erupting. That is what getting stoned to death is like and it is devastating. So do not expect my silence on these religious issues for there are bigger things at stake than the ego of your false Prophet and his doctrines. Indonesia is a place full of a concentration of Muslims many recently got stoned to death with more yet to follow. I advised the Jews to Exodus off all those South Sea islands way back in 1995. Think about that and they were told to warn others why they were Exodussing. So that was very sound advise.
What earthquake Prophecies did Muhammad and Jesus give then any.? Of course they did not and yet you convince yourself without any proof that they are Prophets. Well I am not impressed. Take a close look at the maps shown on the End of Times web site for they show what is happening in the South Seas and what it is all leading up to. Then think for a whiles on those who live on those lands and see them as I do as the walking dead. I have given a grave apocalyptic warning Kayyam and I am not going to back down. I have drawn that line in the sand which is just one of the reasons why I am challenging all the religious congregations. Already against the Revelations of just one man just one Deuteronomy Doomsday prophet your religions and their beliefs have all bitten the Dust. Yet the quake Dust you will all bite on and before that apocalyptic day will be even worse. Meanwhiles hold your children and loved ones close for your religious beliefs have caused them all to be Doomed. The End of Times. http://www.geocities.com/end_of_times/ __________________
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And then there is the matter of 11 Chapters of the Koran glorifying
Jesus and Muhammad believing that Jesus was the Prophet that Jesus claimed
himself as being. That is 11 Chapters of errors found in the Koran.
I note Muslims dare not reply to those 11 Chapters of errors found in
the Koran. 
We all know why dont we. 
I said it would happen sooner or later. That 11 Chapters
of the Koran thingy glorifying Jesus as being the Porphet Jesus claimed
himself as being really is a tuffy. 
