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Sura 4:82 A Challenge
for Islam. Posts 742. Views 6597.
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Starjade 
Senior Member Joined: 28 February 2006 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Online Religion: None Posts: 343 |
Oh and everytime I speak the law of Deuteronomy Ch 19 v 15 I am speaking of the actual word of the living God,. Everytime I speak of Deuteronomy Ch 18 v 15/18 I am speaking the actual word of the living God. And to me the Living God said they must Hearken
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LionKing
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Only the OLD TESTAMENT contains the word of God?
Didn't the Old Testament say the Earth, plants, animals were created
and THEN after that, the sun was made? Where does the Old Testament say the words "old testament", is there something new? We believe God sends revelation to prophets. The Qur'an is such a revelation. You have difficult understanding this concept. PS: Where have you proven SPECIFICALLY that magicians were not impaled at the time of Moses(As). I mean specifically, like the Old Testament saying "the magicians were spared, or hung, or stabbed", or an ancient Egyptian record DIRECTLY addressing this issue. So far all you've done is made a baseless claim, and then run away.
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Starjade
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Lion King you said: Didn't the Old Testament say the Earth, plants, animals were created and THEN after that, the sun was made? Where does the Old Testament say the words "old testament", is there something new? Starjade says: The Old Testament is from Genesis to Micah. The Christians New Testament was added on and that continues next. Are you going to claim you have never heard of those statements. Then go pick up a Bible. And you shall see. As for the genesis account of creation it is not something I accept as fact. Take the Garden of Eden for instance a fabled story intended to hide hidden sacred fruits. Not all is what it seems. Lion King you said: We believe God sends revelation to prophets. The Qur'an is such a revelation. You have difficult understanding this concept. Starjade says: I think you should be careful of assuming you would know my thoughts. The Koran is established by the Sura 4:82 to not be a book sent from God no matter what you believe. Before you claim somebody to be a Prophet especially your idols then it is the wise to be sure you can back your mouth up on that claim. The fact is such a claim is proven to be false when speaking of Jesus and Muhammad and even other so called Prophets are suspect. You have seen my claims of being a Prophet and those claims can be established by Deuteronomy law Ch 19 v 15 and that claim establishes that I am a Prophet with a provable connection to the living God by Deuteronomy law which is considered to be the actual word of the living God. Now that is how proof of Prophecy is done by witness Testimonies who hear true unknown Prophecies of the future. The matter must be proven and provable. Here is a link that shows how I can be established as a Prophet with a provable connection to the living God. http://www.geocities.com/end_of_times/chaptertwo.htm You see I always back my mouth up easily and up front. Now when you speak of those other Prophets why can you not show proof.? Just because you claim things about your idols that does not make the word true. This is a good reason why we should have religious laws to guide us. Lion King you said: PS: Where have you proven SPECIFICALLY that magicians were not impaled at the time of Moses(As). Starjade states: The Old Testament is the original source of that Exodus story. Those magicians were never threatened at all in fact they most probably outlived the Pharaoh. Read the Old Testaments story as it was around over 1000 years before the Koran was writ. Only the Korans story claims those magicians were threatened with death and with having their hands and feet cut off on either side and then crucified. It only says that in the Koran. Not in the Old Testaments original story writ by people who lived in those Times. And impaling a person with a spear through their stomach in no way is crucifixion. Even the Koran says cross and on a palm tree not death by a spear. The hieroglyph just shows the death to an enemy. And clearly that is not a crucifixion even of the Korans description. Lion King you said: I mean specifically, like the Old Testament saying "the magicians were spared, or hung, or stabbed", or an ancient Egyptian record DIRECTLY addressing this issue So far all you've done is made a baseless claim, and then run away. Starjade
says: I have hardly run away in fact I addressed this matter more
fully than anyone before me. You just are miffed because your
hopeful excuses were proven to be wrong. The Old Testament does
not speak of any death of the magicians at all. They did not need
to write oh in case some moon worshippers want to know the magicians
who lost against the living God of Moses were not put to death by the
Pharaoh out of his spite. The fact is those magicians were not
under threat so there was not need to speak of such things. It
only claims that death of the magicians in the Koran which is already
proven by the Sura 4:82 to not be a book sent from God but was man made
and by people who did not have access to the data and so they invented
their tales a bit to make the story more interesting. After all
let us not forget the Koran is based on Old and New testament text and
claims and so they had to write it a bit different of they would as
they are today be accused of plagiarism |
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| wesley Senior Member Joined: 19 January 2005 Location: United States Online Status: Offline Religion: Christian(Jehovah's Witness) Posts: 461 |
Please excuse the interjection but it is a mistake of tradition to divide the Bible into two sections, "OT"/"NT". This stems from a popular translation (King James) of 2Corinthians 3:14 which tells of "reading of the old testament", but here Paul is referring to the Mosaic Law "covenant" not the Hebrew Scriptures in their entirety. A more accurate designation of the common division of the Bible is on the basis of the language predominately used in each section, Hebrew and Greek.
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LionKing
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I have hardly run away in fact I addressed this matter more fully than anyone before me. You just are miffed because your hopeful excuses were proven to be wrong. The Old Testament does not speak of any death of the magicians at all. They did not need to write oh in case some moon worshippers want to know the magicians who lost against the living God of Moses were not put to death by the Pharaoh out of his spite. The fact is those magicians were not under threat so there was not need to speak of such things. It only claims that death of the magicians in the Koran which is already proven by the Sura 4:82 to not be a book sent from God but was man made and by people who did not have access to the data and so they invented their tales a bit to make the story more interesting. After all let us not forget the Koran is based on Old and New testament text and claims and so they had to write it a bit different of they would as they are today be accused of plagiarism LOOL, oh man. That was the most pathetic, primitive and baseless excuse for a reply I've read. You're basically saying OT is word of God so Qur'an is wrong. That's a MATTER OF FAITH! It is not at all evidence. Like I said, the Genesis also says the Sun was created AFTER the earth. You said you do not buy this version of events. Which means you believe the Bible is corrupt. Which is the reason the magicians are not mentioned to be killed, because the Book is corrupt. You see, I have God's actual, literal Word to compare the OT to. You have only confusion. Read the Old Testaments story as it was around over 1000 years before the Koran was writ.
God is not bound by time, and God does not lose memory. Men lose memory,
which is why the OT is corrupt.
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Starjade
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Starjade says: But in any Time you choose that is what these forums are all about. Voice your view and what is on your mind. The fact is the Old Testament ends with Micah then the Roman Christians started to invent their own religion in their feeble attempt to fulfill the Old Testament Prophecies. So they added on the New Testament tales of Jesus and their proclamations onto the Old Testament so as to give authenticity to their claims about Jesus, which I add, are proven by Deuteronomy Laws to be untrue. The characters in the Christians New Testament are of invention and no evidence exists other then their being characters in a book as written by Roman so-called Christians and they called it the New Testament. The new Testament is not authentic just because someone adds it onto the old Testament claiming it to be true. Yet that is what is done. By the way I have two 300 years old Bibles designed to be read in churches and that is how they convinced people by creating their own churches. Just as the Koran also has done. Jesus and Muhammad both claim they are the Deuteronomy Ch 18 v 15/18 prophet. Even though God only promised to raise up only one Prophet not two. So one or the other or both have to be lying. And I add Muhammad believed in Jesus even though Deuteronomy law shows the tales of Jesus are all fraud so he did not know a whole lot did he. It is a fact the Old Testament is a book on its own and it is Jewish.
The New Testament is another book added by the Romans pretending to
fulfill the Old Testament Prophecies. And the Koran is added
by the Arabs as if that is the fulfillment of the Old Testament and
its Prophecies. Yet all are making false proclamations and are
not of the same religion. So they should be distinguishable from
each other as exacting knowledge halts the ease of a particular religions
deceptions. |
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Starjade
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Lion King you said: LOOL, oh man. That was the most pathetic, primitive and baseless excuse for a reply I've read. Starjade says: Well I am sure your religious leaders will have a more worried view at my startling Revelations. Do not ever think you are the only judge on this planet. Lion King you said: You're basically saying OT is word of God so Qur'an is wrong. Starjade says: As a matter of more exacting fact. All Jews and Christians and Muslims accept the Old Testament as being the word of God and the new Testament is just a belief. As is the Koran. The Sura 4:82 challenge of the Koran admits the Koran does not come from God by the exposure of the many errors that exist in the Koran. That fact is inescapable and admitted by the Koran itself for God does not make mistakes. The many errors that exist in the Koran show the claims of the Koran coming from God are not true and that also shows the word of Muhammad is untrue also for he claimed the words of the Koran came from God when the Koran itself admits it didn�t. Lion King you said: That's a MATTER OF FAITH! It is not at all evidence. Starjade says: As a matter of fact it is not a matter of faith for man can be deceived into following anything. The Sura 4:82 of the Koran Challenge says if just one error exists in the Koran then that is the proof that the Koran does not come from God. That is what the Sura 4:82 challenge is about and that challenge is open to all Muslims and non muslims. Sura 4:82. Do they not consider the Koran with care for if it had not come from Allah then surely they would have found much discrepancy therein. So then I can list some 500 errors in the Koran and this fact proves the Koran does not come from God. I do not see you being in a sound position as a Muslim to stand against the words of the Sura 4;82 of the Koran. How can you say you believe in the Koran and then ignore its words. The errors I show that exist in the Koran is evidence that the Koran does not come from God and the Koran itself admits that. So that claim by Muhammad is unsound. Lion King you said: Like I said, the Genesis also says the Sun was created AFTER the earth. You said you do not buy this version of events. Which means you believe the Bible is corrupt. Which is the reason the magicians are not mentioned to be killed, because the Book is corrupt. Starjade says; I do not accept the Genesis statement of how the earth was created but then I was not there and so I voice opinion. Plus I know that some words were changed with a reason to hide other words hidden as a code within its text. There is a large period of Time between Genesis and those magicians. Those magicians were never placed under threat of death and the Old Testament is the only true source of that data. The tale in the Koran of the threat of death against those magicians is not true. As I have shown. And whiles you speak of the sun remind yourself that Muhammad was asked where the Sun when at night and Muhammad said it set in a pool of muddy water. Lion King you said: You see, I have God's actual, literal Word to compare the OT to. You have only confusion. Starjade says: The Sura 4:82 of the Koran and the lists of errors that exist in the Koran show the Koran does not come from God no matter what you believe. The Koran itself admits that. Explain with great caution just how you think you have Gods literal word. The Old Testament is the only original source of any of this religious data of the Old Testament and the New Testament and the Koran. Without the Old Testament the New Testament and the Koran would not exist.
Lion King you said: God is not bound by time, and God does not lose memory. Men lose memory, which is why the OT is corrupt. Starjade says; This propaganda brag you have does not explain the fact Muhammad believed the Old Testament was not corrupt when he claimed he was the Prophet that God promised Moses he would raise up. Or when Muhammad claimed he satisfied the Prophecies of Isaiah. And the Koran even speaks of Jesus even though Jesus claimed he was that Prophet that the living God promised Moses he would raise up. Jesus had said in John Chapter 5 Verse 46. for had ye believed Moses, ye would have believed me, for he wrote of me. Verse 47: But if ye believe not his writings, how shall ye believe my words. This claim by Jesus to being that Deuteronomy Prophet of the Nation of Jews was the reason why they called Jesus the King of the Jews. Starjade continues: As you point out the living God is all powerful and does not lose memory. So then what explanation do you have for the Sura 4:82 Many errors that exist in the Koran or do you say that God makes those errors or this (cough) angel Gabriel made those errors in the Koran or is it as is clear that man invented the Koran and plagiaries its text and that is why you have errors in the Koran. It is rather odd don�t you think that Muhammad believed in Jesus and 11 Chapters of the Koran glorify Jesus as being the very Prophet that Jesus has proclaimed himself as being. When the very Prophet that Jesus has claimed himself as being is that very specific Deuteronomy Ch 18 v 15/18 prophet that the living God promised Moses he would raise up. That is why they call Jesus the King of the Jews. Yet the very specific Prophet that Muhammad has proclaimed himself to being is that very same Deuteronomy Ch 18 v 15/18 prophet that the living God promised Moses he would raise up. Yet Muhammad also believed that Jesus was the Prophet that Jesus had proclaimed himself as being. Now then do not try and shirk away from these errors with feeble off topic propaganda excuses as they just do not work with me. Oh and by the way. You do know that Gabriel originated in a Dream that Daniel had whiles in a deep sleep don�t you.? And Daniel described a man not any angel. It was only Luke of the Christians new Testament who claims Gabriel is an Angel and that this Angel Gabriel appeared to give authenticity to Jesus who as a grown man claimed that he was that specific Deuteronomy Ch 18 v15/18 Prophet that the Living God promised Moses he would raise up. Clearly of course Muhammad did not know that information. By the way can you define plagiarism? Of course Muhammad got all his religious stories from Christian Bibles and they always yackle on about Jesus being the son of God and so they will have missed telling the Muslims about the claims of Jesus being that Deuteronomy Ch 18 v 15/18 prophet that God promised Moses he would raise up. (cough)
erm exactly which Prophet again did you say Muhammad has proclaimed
himself as being Lion King or can you not dare a reply being unable
having stuck your head so deep into the sand. Its Ok we all know Muhammad
claimed he was that Deuteronomy Prophet as well so there goes your beliefs
like a wisp of smoke into the Clouds. |
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| Starjade
Senior Member Joined: 28 February 2006 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Online Religion: None Posts: 343 |
And where has that Dr.
Deen vanished to again. ?
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| Kayyam
Undergraduate Joined: 21 December 2005 Location: United States Online Status: Offline Religion: Islam(Sunni) Posts: 691 |
Shall we take a vote? Who thinks starjade has given a single solid proof of an error? Who can even remember one of the examples amid his babbling?
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| Kayyam
Undergraduate Joined: 21 December 2005 Location: United States Online Status: Offline Religion: Islam(Sunni) Posts: 691 |
THE
NEW CHALLENGE
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| Bill2702
Undergraduate Joined: 05 February 2006 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Online Religion: Atheist(Atheist) Posts: 918 |
Starjade is trying bring down Islam by the simple but clever ruse of filling up the hard disks of every website server that has anything do do with islam with the same 300 words repeated endlessly.
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| wesley Senior Member Joined: 19 January 2005 Location: United States Online Status: Offline Religion: Christian(Jehovah's Witness) Posts: 461 |
Likely you mean "Malachi" when referencing the latter books of the Hebrew Scriptures. Invention? Tiberius Caesar? Pontius Pilate? Herod? Lysanias?
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| Bill2702
Undergraduate Joined: 05 February 2006 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Online Religion: Atheist(Atheist) Posts: 918 |
Your'e all barmy!
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Kayyam
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