|
Sura 4:82 A Challenge
for Islam. Posts 742. Views 6597.
|
|||||||||
|
hamayoun
|
|
|||||||||
|
iris89
|
Hi Aviatrix You make bold claims, but without any backup what-so-ever commonly known as an opinionated rant, but I shall not answer you in kind as would Starjade. I shall answer you with detailed facts from renown historical writings, encyclopedias, and archaeology as follows:{be sure to read the Appendix also} The Fact on The Name "Allah" It should not come as a surprise that the word "Allah" was not something invented by Muhammad or revealed for the first time in the Quran. The well-known Middle East scholar H.A.R. Gibb has pointed out that the reason that Muhammad never had to explain who Allah was in the Quran is that his listeners had already heard about Allah long before Muhammad was ever born [Mohammedanism: An Historical Survey, New York: Mentor Books, 1955, p.38] Dr. Arthur Jeffery, one of the foremost Western Islamic scholars in modern times and professor of Islamic and Middle East Studies at Columbia University, notes: "The name Allah, as the Quran itself is witness, was well known in pre-Islamic Arabia. Indeed, both it and its feminine form, Allat, are found not infrequently among the theophorous names in inscriptions from North Africa" [Islam: Muhammad, and His Religion, New York: The Liberal Arts Press, 1958, p. 85] The word "Allah" comes from the compound Arabic word, al-ilah. Al is the definite article "the" and ilah is an Arabic word for "god." It is not a foreign word. It is not even the Syriac word for God. It is pure Arabic. (There is an interesting discussion of the origins of Allah, in "Arabic Lexicographical Miscellanies" by J. Blau in the Journal of Semitic Studies, Vol. XVII, #2, 1972, pp. 173-190)[source - Arabic Lexicographical Miscellanies by J. Blau in the Journal of Semitic Studies, Vol. XVII, #2, 1972, pages 173-190] Neither is Allah a Hebrew or Greek word for God as found in the Bible. Allah is a purely Arabic term used in reference to an Arabian deity. Hastings' Encyclopedia of Religion and Ethics I:326, T & T Clark, states: '"Allah" is a proper name, applicable only to their [Arabs'] peculiar God. ' According to the Encyclopedia of Religion: '"Allah" is a pre-Islamic name . . . corresponding to the Babylonian Bel' [Encyclopedia of Religion, I:117 Washington DC, Corpus Pub., 1979] For those who find it hard to believe that Allah was a pagan name for a peculiar pagan Arabian deity in pre-Islamic times, the following quotations may be helpful: "Allah is found . . . in Arabic inscriptions prior to Islam" [Encyclopedia Britannica, I:643] "The Arabs, before the time of Mohammed, accepted and worshipped, after a fashion, a supreme god called Allah" [Encyclopedia off Islam, I:302, Leiden: E.J. Brill, 1913, Houtsma] "Allah was known to the pre-Islamic . . . Arabs; he was one of the Meccan deities" [Enyclopedia of Islam, I:406, ed. Gibb] "Ilah . . . appears in pre-Islamic poetry . . . By frequency of usage, al-ilah was contracted to Allah, frequently attested to in pre-Islamic poetry" [Encyclopedia of Islam, III:1093, 1971] "The name Allah goes back before Muhammad" [Encyclopedia of World Mythology and Legend, I:41, Anthony Mercatante, New York, The Facts on File, 1983] "The origin of this (Allah) goes back to pre-Muslim times. Allah is not a common name meaning "God" (or a "god"), and the Muslim must use another word or form if he wishes to indicate any other than his own peculiar deity" [Encyclopedia of Religion and Ethics, I:326, Hastings] To the testimony of the above standard reference works, we add those of such scholars as Henry Preserved Smith of Harvard University who has stated: "Allah was already known by name to the Arabs" [The Bible and Islam: or, The Influence of the Old and New Testament on the Religion of Mohammed, New York, Charles Scribner's Sons, 1897, p. 102]. Dr. Kenneth Cragg, former editor of the prestigious scholarly journal Muslim World and an outstanding modern Western Islamic scholar, whose works are generally published by Oxford University, comments: "The name Allah is also evident in archeological and literary remains of pre-Islamic Arabia" [The Call of the Minaret, New York: Oxford University Press, 1956, p. 31]. Dr. W. Montgomery Watt, who was Professor of Arabic and Islamic Studies at Edinburgh University and Visiting Professor of Islamic studies at College de France, Georgetown University, and the University of Toronto, has done extensive work on the pre-Islamic concept of Allah. He concludes: "In recent years I have become increasingly convinced that for an adequate understanding of the career of Muhammad and the origins of Islam great importance must be attached to the existence in Mecca of belief in Allah as a "high god." In a sense this is a form of paganism, but it is so different from paganism as commonly understood that it deserves separate treatment" [William Montgomery Watt, Muhammad's Mecca, p. vii. Also see his article, "Belief in a High God in Pre-Islamic Mecca", Journal of Semitic Studies, Vol. 16, 1971, pp. 35-40] Caesar Farah in his book on Islam concludes his discussion of the pre-Islamic meaning of Allah by saying: "There is no reason, therefore, to accept the idea that Allah passed to the Muslims from the Christians and Jews" [Islam: Beliefs and Observations, New York, Barrons, 1987, p. 28]. According to Middle East scholar E.M. Wherry, whose translation of the Quran is still used today, in pre-Islamic times Allah-worship, as well as the worship of Ba-al, were both astral religions in that they involved the worship of the sun, the moon, and the stars [A Comprehensive Commentary on the Quran, Osnabruck: Otto Zeller Verlag, 1973, p. 36]. Also, I have shown 'Allah' is a proper name for the Moon god, and the title for any god in Arabic is 'Ilah.' The title god in Arabic is 'Ilah,' and not Allah. 'Ilah' is a title; whereas, Allah is a proper name of a specific 'Ilah,' so get a dose of reality. Also, several New Testament Bibles in Arabic the title ' Ar-Rab' means "The Lord" is used. APPENDIX: [1]Interestingly, here are the meanings of several important words in Arabic: Jesus in Arabic is Yesua Word in Arabic is Kalam Spirit in Arabic is Ruh God in Arabic is Ilah The in Arabic is El [2] Astral Religions In Arabia, the sun god was viewed as a female goddess and the moon as the male god. As has been pointed out by many scholars such as Alfred Guilluame, the moon god was called by various names, one of which was Allah! (Islam, p. 7). The name Allah was used as the personal name of the moon god, in addition to other titles that could be given to him. Allah, the moon god, was married to the sun goddess. Together they produced three goddesses who were called "the daughters of Allah." These three goddesses were called Al-Lat, Al-Uzza, and Manat. The daughters of Allah, along with Allah and the sun goddess were viewed as "high" gods. That is, they were viewed as being at the top of the pantheon of Arabian deities. "Along with Allah, however, they worshipped a host of lesser gods and "daughters of Al-lah" [SOURCE - Encyclopedia of World Mythology and Legend, I:61]. [3] The old middle eastern Moon god who has gone by many names is still well venerated. This is shown by "The Archeology of The Middle East" which states, "The religion of Islam has as its focus of worship a deity by the name of "Allah." The Muslims claim that Allah in pre-Islamic times was the biblical God of the Patriarchs, prophets, and apostles. The issue is thus one of continuity. Was "Allah" the biblical God or a pagan god in Arabia during pre-Islamic times? The Muslim's claim of continuity is essential to their attempt to convert Jews and Christians for if "Allah" is part of the flow of divine revelation in Scripture, then it is the next step in biblical religion. Thus we should all become Muslims. But, on the other hand, if Allah was a pre-Islamic pagan deity, then its core claim is refuted. Religious claims often fall before the results of hard sciences such as archeology. We can endlessly speculate about the past or go and dig it up and see what the evidence reveals. This is the only way to find out the truth concerning the origins of Allah. As we shall see, the hard evidence demonstrates that the god Allah was a pagan deity. In fact, he was the Moon-god who was married to the sun goddess and the stars were his daughters. Archaeologists have uncovered temples to the Moon-god throughout the Middle East. From the mountains of Turkey to the banks of the Nile, the most wide-spread religion of the ancient world was the worship of the Moon-god. In the first literate civilization, the Sumerians have left us thousands of clay tablets in which they described their religious beliefs. As demonstrated by Sjoberg and Hall, the ancient Sumerians worshipped a Moon-god who was called many different names. The most popular names were Nanna, Suen and Asimbabbar. His symbol was the crescent moon. Given the amount of artifacts concerning the worship of this Moon-god, it is clear that this was the dominant religion in Sumeria. The cult of the Moon-god was the most popular religion throughout ancient Mesopotamia. The Assyrians, Babylonians, and the Akkadians took the word Suen and transformed it into the word Sin as their favorite name for the Moon-god. As Prof. Potts pointed out, "Sin is a name essentially Sumerian in origin which had been borrowed by the Semites." [source - The Archeology of the Middle East]"[additional references - "South Arabia's stellar religion has always been dominated by the Moon-god in various variations" (Berta Segall, The Iconography of Cosmic Kingship, the Art Bulletin, vol.xxxviii, 1956, p.77).; Isaac Rabinowitz, Aramaic Inscriptions of the Fifth Century, JNES, XV, 1956, pp.1-9; Edward Linski, The Goddess Atirat in Ancient Arabia, in Babylon and in Ugarit: Her Relation to the Moon-god and the Sun-goddess, Orientalia Lovaniensia Periodica, 3:101-9; H.J.Drivers, Iconography and Character of the Arab Goddess Allat, found in �tudes Preliminaries Aux Religions Orientales Dans L'Empire Roman, ed. Maarten J. Verseren, Leiden, Brill, 1978, pp.331-51); Richard Le Baron Bower Jr. and Frank P. Albright, Archaeological Discoveries in South Arabia, Baltimore, John Hopkins University Press, 1958, p.78ff; Ray Cleveland, An Ancient South Arabian Necropolis, Baltimore, John Hopkins University Press, 1965; Nelson Gleuck, Deities and Dolphins, New York, Farrar, Strauss and Giroux, 1965).; Another Aramaic Record of the North Arabian goddess Han'Llat, JNES, XVIII, 1959, pp.154-55.[source - There is Only One True God by Iris the Preacher 2005]
Your Friend in Christ Iris89 |
|||||||||
|
Katatonic Bliss
|
wow. Lengthy post. I can refute all that in three words. Here they are: Elohi, Allahi, Allah. Elohi is the word by which Moses Called God in Hebrew. Allahi is the word by which Jesus called God in Aramaic. Allah is the word by which Muhammad called God in Arabic.
All of them have the same translation into English: The One True God. |
|||||||||
|
hamayoun
|
AA Instead of quoting God
knows who, why dont we look at the Quran and see how Allah is described,
particularly in reference ot the moon which we muslims supposedly worship? |
|||||||||
Katatonic Bliss
 Graduate Forum Metalhead Joined: 22 February 2004 Location: United States Online Status: Offline Religion: Islam(Muslim) Posts: 1301 |
lol wait... I just realized the thread starter... Starjade!!! I remember this guy!!! I laughed myself to tears at his idiocy on a christian board!!!
|
|||||||||
|
iris89
|
Hi hamayoun Your comment,
FIRST, A question since you are a male Muslim (Sunni), why do male Muslims love to accuse others of lying falsely all the time? Do you NOT even know what a lie is? Falsely accusing others of lying brings you under John 8:44, "Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father it is your will to do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and standeth not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father thereof." (American Standard Version; ASV). SECOND, Let�s deal with what a lie is since you apparently do NOT comprehend,
THIRD, With respect being upset about something, the only thing I find upsetting is your arrogant position in opposition to truth and reality which is pure nonsense, so get a dose of reality.
Your Friend in Christ Iris89 |
|||||||||
| hamayoun
Admin Group The Humble Muslim Joined: 07 January 2004 Location: United States Online Status: Offline Religion: Islam(Sunni) Posts: 3928 |
YOU KEEP SAYING THAT ALLAH
IS THE MOON GOD, EVEN WHEN PRESENTED WITH EVIDENCE TO THE CONTRARY.
THEREFORE YOU ARE LYING. |
|||||||||
|
iris89
|
Hi Katatonic Bliss Your comment,
WRONG, You are in error. First, You have only made an opinionated rant without any backup. Second, As usual, Muslims fail to provide any backup; whereas, I provide well buttressed backup for all I say. Third, you make the claim that Jesus (Yeshua) called God (YHWH) Allahi in Aramaic, but none of the New Testament was written in Aramaic. For many years of course it was thought the Book of Matthew was originally written in Aramaic, but recent findings throw this out, so get real. Fourth, Allah/Hubal al�iah/Baal is the word Muhammad called god in Arabic, all being but personal names as the word for god in Arabic is �Ilah�, and you should know this. Fifth, None of the names that Muhammad used for god translate to God Almighty (YHWH) of Abraham as the all refer to the old middle eastern Moon god, "Allah/Hubal al�iah/Baal." So get a dose of reality.
Your Friend in Christ Iris89 |
|||||||||
|
hamayoun
|
|
|||||||||
|
iris89
|
Hi Hamayoun You made a false claim,
Now prove it using a reliable source and not the �con� book.
Your Friend in Christ Iris89 |
|||||||||
|
iris89
|
Hi Katatonic Bliss Your silly comment,
How arrogant you are towards others. You probably have never visited Starjade�s web site. You should before you speak against him. I do NOT agree with him, but Starjade is an excellent scholar of Islam.
Your Friend in Christ Iris89 |
|||||||||
|
hamayoun
|
|
|||||||||
|
Aviatrix
|
I said this: You have posted numerous articles that don't even come close to answering questions asked of you. Muhammad never bowed down before an idol, nor told anyone to do so. Trying to claim that Allah is a moon god is utter nonsense. And this: I don't have a copy of that book handy, but I'm pretty sure that page 11 is before Muhammad's first revelation, and probably before he was born. You have no evidence that Muhammad worshipped idols--only that they were worshipped before him. Muslims already knew that. And you said this: You make bold claims, but without any backup what-so-ever commonly known as an opinionated rant, but I shall not answer you in kind as would Starjade. I shall answer you with detailed facts from renown historical writings, encyclopedias, and archaeology... Fact: You're not answering questions, just pasting long articles that I don't even think you a reading before you post--they don't answer the questions. Fact: Muhammad never bowed to an idol. If you would read one of those books you're quoting so happily, you might know this. The one by Martin Lings is a good place to start. Never did Muhammad bow to an idol or tell Muslims to--that is a construct of your imagination. Try reading the whole book, and tell me where it says Muhammad worshipped a moon god. Here will be your answer: "Allah is the moon god." Despite in the Quran saying He is not (Hamayoun showed you that verse), despite being the Creator of the Universe (Hamayoun showed you that one too), despite the fact He condemns all forms of idol worship (an abomination, see 5:90)... you still deign to call him the moon god.
Your proof is make-believe. |
|||||||||
|
hamayoun
|
|
|||||||||
