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Sura 4:82 A Challenge
for Islam. Posts 742. Views 6597.
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silkworm 
Graduate Joined: 14 December 2005 Location: United States Online Status: Offline Religion: Islam(Muslim) Posts: 1057 |
Silkworm says to starjade:
anybody tries to hijack your thread, prosecute him. By the way, why
do you call Charles Manson your dad???
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| silkworm
Graduate Joined: 14 December 2005 Location: United States Online Status: Offline Religion: Islam(Muslim) Posts: 1057 |
silkworm says to starjade: Buddy, I don't want to sound disrespectful to ya but why are you allowing your body to write a check your behind can't cash??? Starjade says to silkworm: Poooof, I am gone
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Starjade
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Hello again Silkworm.
Now I wonder still |
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hafsa
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i'm (or we are) not unable to defend islam. i almost aways replied correctly when ever i made an effort. then you try to wrong it, then again someone has to attend to you, then again you carry on and repeat your Exodus and points that are fake or invalid in their details. thats what i mean. should we stop everything and just attend to you? its not interesting you see, however i'll try to build more stamina.. to prove that your blames are false. so far you haven't given anything that is correct to prove that there is any discrepency in Quran.
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Starjade
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Hafsa you claimed: i'm (or we are) not unable to defend Islam. Starjade says: You are too. You are shirking away you admitted it. Hafsa you claimed: I almost always replied correctly when ever I made an effort. Then you try to wrong it, then again someone has to attend to you, then again you carry on and repeat your Exodus and points that are fake or invalid in their details. That�s what I mean. Starjade says: Nothing I say or write is fake or untrue. I had explanations that you could not account for. Showing errors do exist in the Koran. Do you think others cannot read? You and I are not the only ones here. Hafsa you claimed: should we stop everything and just attend to you? its not interesting you see, however i'll try to build more stamina.. Starjade says: Who is this we. I am speaking about You ooo. It is you trying to imply a connection to others who no doubt will reply in their own Time to things said. They just want to see how steady the water is before they go paddling in denial. You wrote a lot of text and I answered to every word of it. And justly so with accounts of this and that. Then when you find you cannot dispute error found in the Koran you come online with insults and accusations and a shirk Tsk Tsk Tsk., I deserve better respect than that. Hafsa you claimed: to prove that your blames are false. So far you haven't given anything that is correct to prove that there is any discrepancy in Quran. Starjade says; Oh yes I have and everyone here knows that. Why do you not comment on why Muhammad believed in Jesus and 11 Chapters of the Koran believe in Jesus. When the Prophet that Jesus has proclaimed himself to being is the Deuteronomy Ch 18 v 15/18 Prophet. That is why they call Jesus the King of the Jews. Now then there is some 11 Chapters of errors in the Koran right there. Or do you forget that the proclamations of Muhammad is that he alone is that Deuteronomy Ch 18 v 15/18 prophet that God promised Moses he would raise up.
But the living God only promised to raise up one Prophet not two.
So that along with the many other errors are things that you are clearly
shirking. Anyhow
my computer access Time has run out so gotta go. catch you all later. |
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Kayyam
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Kayyam
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Kayyam
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Starjade
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Starjade says; Kayyam you are getting to despair in most desperations. That is what swimming in denial can do for you. I did do a lot of research on Nefure Hatshepsut looking at almost every statement and conjectures made about her. It is you who is in error. I can give you a list on links to that subject but instead I shall leave this link, which can show you many more. Do note they speak of the Pharaoh Nefure Hatshepsut wont you. So once again the much-loved Doomsday Prophet Starjade is right yet again. As per usual. http://www.google.co.uk/search?hl=en&sa=X&oi=spell&a mp;a mp;resnum=0&ct=result&cd=1&q=the+pharaoh+nefure+ hatshepsut&spell=1
Starjade says: Egyptian history does confirm the Old Testament statements and stories regarding that Exodus. The fact Egyptian history established that the Koran was wrong in its tales mystifies me as to why you are so happy about that result. It shows errors in the Koran. The Sura 4:82 Challenge and admission is that if any errors are found in the Koran then that is the proof that the Koran did not come from God which also means Muhammad is proven to be presumptuous to think he could speak in Gods name.
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Starjade
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Kayyam you say: Yeah, well other Arabs say its Isa. So come back when you have something new to say. Starjade says; Starjade speaks of new things everyday. Now an Arab who speaks Arabic when asked and he replies it is Yesuwa then I am going to accept his word on the matter. And Jesus is a blasphemous fraud anyways and so the very name of Jesus should not have even been spoken about considering the claims of Muhammad himself. So this is more than just the feeble error in a name but in 11 Chapters of the Koran glorifying Jesus as being the Prophet that Jesus has proclaimed himself to being. Tsk Tsk Tsk�. And error which I have already explained at length and not yet got any sound reply from any of yoooos lot.
Starjade says: Well you implied that it was all not true. ? Now I wasn�t there so I do not know. But others were around and they are said to have written about it. Hence the statements from the Old Testament which is the source data of those tales. The Koranic Exodus story is way different and a much longer tale. Full of errors but a good story all the same. So clearly others are most convinced that Moses and the Exodus happened and took place all that Time ago. Kayyam you said: I am just saying that there is no archaeological evidence of it. The only hint that it happened are from the legends written down in the Torah. Starjade says: I have read an account of that Exodus in the Koran as well. So what you say is a manuscript on paper or skin or such like from some 6 thousand years ago is not archaeological evidence of something unless it was dug up from the ground with a cave man on one side and a Sabre tooth Tiger biting down on the other. Just what exactly do you think is history and archaeology.? Kayyam you say: Historians do not consider the Torah, Bible & Koran as three separate sources of eye-witness information. Kayyam
Starjade says: The New Testament and the Koran are not eye
witness Statements are they though. They are statements given
by other writers long after the subjects mentioned had long been claimed
dead. Only the Old Testament has survived with any form of credibility. |
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Starjade
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Kayyam you say: Huh? Then you aren't acquanted with the most basic discoveries in cosmology. All stars are in motion as can be determined by the doppler shift in their color. Kayyam
Starjade says: Yes everything in space has motion.
They are all in gravitational pulls or being thrust in this or that
direction due to other outside influences. But they are not grabbed
hold of and flung at Demons are they. That will just be a speck
of dust or a spider making a journey across the lens of your telescope. |
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Kayyam
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Oh really? Here are a few links to educate you:
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| M.A.R.W.A.N
Kuffar shirker Admin Group [M]oderation [I]n [A]dministration Joined: 01 November 2004 Location: United States Online Status: Offline Religion: None Posts: 5379 |
He is boring... Kayyam, you have much more worthy challenges ahead of you, leave the intellectually dead alone, let 'em rest in peace.
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hafsa
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Starjade says: The Koran claimed it was the Samaritans who forged the Golden Calf then realizing that could not be they tried to imply that it was someone called Samari who forged the golden calf.
The fault in the Koran is that it is inventing who forged the golden calf and making the mistake of presenting it as if facts when the Koran itself is unsure of its data. The Old Testament is sure for it says it was Aaron the brother of Moses who forged the golden calf.
{the fault lies in those who do not believe that the author of Quran is Allah, who knows everything better than those mistakes and forgeries in your man made texts. Those who don�t want to realize that we worship Allah the only living God, the Creator of the entire universe and beyond. Get your ideas clear man, Samiri magician surely made the calf. Quran gives one step or more higher knowledge than the older versions sent previously. }
Hafsa you said: Who can eat gold and survive.does Exodus give further evidence that they immediately died or will you or your partners need to ammend that?
Starjade says: I have no partners. As a younger man I was being trained as a working Jeweler making and repairing Jewelry with Hyman Bros and Leonard Dews here in Blackpool whiles I was raised up in the midst of thy brethren. You can easily eat Gold and survive. Especially Gold dust. Do not forget what was said:
Exodus 32:2 And Aaron said unto them, Break off the golden earrings, which are in the ears of your wives, of your sons, and of your daughters, and bring them unto me. Exodus 32:3 And all the people brake off the golden earrings which were in their ears, and brought them unto Aaron. Exodus 32:4 And he received them at their hand, and fashioned it with a graving tool, after he had made it a molten calf: and they said, These be thy gods, O Israel, which brought thee up out of the land of Egypt.
Starjade says: So then the Golden calf was not a massive statue was it. Why I have seen Indian Fakirs eat all sorts of things. Why do you not go and read that Exodus. I did give you chapter and verse for easy reference. All Libraries will have a copy someplace of the Old Testament and it is also on the Internet. But then why wait whiles the Lord King Starjade doth educate you.
{Your concept is funny. Next thing you do is to find errors in Exodus. First you insist that all the people gave all their gold belongings to make up a calf statue, that too on the instigation of a Prophet of the one and only God that is Allah. then the Prophet was so timid and cruel that on seeing a stonger Prophet, he forces people to eat it. Next thing: they were only given some gold dust to swallow. Seems like a blessed powder here, a special gift?}
Starjade says: The Sun does not set in a pool of muddy water no matter who speaks on that subject. When you speak of the Koran being accurate in science and data it is clear you are just begging for a list of unscientific data that exists in the Koran. I do have lists of such things you can be sure. I have even mentioned a few already including the claim by Muhammad that the sun sets in a pool of muddy water.
{Of course the sun doesn�t sink in a quagmire, as you are trying to imply. Even an ordinary person knows that. But since you don�t want to admit something you won�t. you won�t admit for example how accurately mentioned is that the sun�s orbit is separated from the moon�s; or that it is mentioned that sun also rotates, a fact only recently discovered; or shall I bring more examples from Quran about the solar system. I don�t need to beg you to understand the truth of Quran, you may suit yourself, and bear the consequences in the world hereafter!!}
What about the claim by Muhammad that a Devil lives up the noses of all Muslims. Muhammad said they must snort up water several times a day and then snort out that Devil from the nostril. Do you say that is scientifically sound. Do you believe that a Devil lives up your nose?
{ If he says it, it has to be only right. And what he talked about in that hadees was about when a person wakes up from sleep and has to wash his nose again thrice for wodoo, as devil sits on his nose during sleep. That form of devil is of course beyond comprehension of science.}
In suras 2:65-66 and 7:163-167, Allah turns certain fishing people who break the Jewish sabbath into apes for their disobedience. Do you believe that is scientifically possible. ?
{I believe it to be possible for God. Everything is possible for Him. Science does not restrict Him. He bars science for miracles.}
It is common knowledge, as scientists teach, that thunder is a sound caused by the impact between electrical charges found in the clouds. Yet Muhammad, the self appointed prophet of Muslims, has a different opinion in this matter. He claims that the thunder and the lightning are two of God�s angels�exactly like Gabriel!
Look who�s calling Mohammad Mustufa SalAllaho Alehey Wassalam, the praiseworthy, the chosen, the ultimate Prophet as self appointed.
Insult me starjade, not him. Otherwise you will loose one more person who�s trying her patience on you. one more thing, the distribution of electrical energy into light energy as well as sound energy is known.
In his commentary (p. 329), the Baydawi comments on verse 13 of chapter of the Thunder, �Ibn �Abbas asked the apostle of God about the thunder. He told him, �It is an angel who is in charge of the cloud, who (carries) with him swindles of fire by which he drives the clouds.�� In the commentary of the Jalalan (p. 206), we read about this verse: �The thunder is an angel in charge of the clouds to drive them.� �It is one of God�s angels in charge of the clouds. He carries in his hand a swindle of fire by which he pricks the clouds to drive them to where God has ordered them.� They said to him, �What is this sound that we hear?� He said: �(It is) his voice (The angel�s voice).��
{Knowing your intentions, everything gets easy, Baydawi Jalalan and Zamakhshari are not reliable sources or the Hadees you did not quote accurately is a Daeef one . However what I would stand up for is that there is an angel responsible for rain and that is Mikaeel. May it be thunder or lightening or anything else, all things happen per Allah�s command and executed by angels, believe it or not.}
Suyuti records for us the names of the angels, which are: �Gabriel, Michael, Harut, Marut, the Thunder and the Lightning (He said) that the lightning has four faces.� {you have picked up only these, we also believe in many others by name.}
Starjade says; These things that exist in the Koran and are not scientific facts. No Muslim yet has dared a reply to the statements Muhammad has made about Thunder and lightening. {Now that I have, don�t repeat this line again}.
Hafsa you said: At one end you think our Prophet Mohammad (Sal Allaho Alahe Wassalam) got trained by a Christian for Quran. On the other hand, he didn�t even know Jesus� name?
Starjade says: Muhammad did not write the Koran did he. Others wrote the Koran in the name of Muhammad and so clearly it would be their error in the Koran. Let us not blame Muhammad for everything for others were also at fault. And you have not shown any evidence that Muhammad is a genuine Prophet. On the contrary I have shown you evidence to the other wise.
{Did you ask for one? No. Even if I did give you evidence, you would never agree would you. I can�t show light to a blind, I�m sorry. Your evidence is only that since you are blind, its all black.}
Hafsa you said: People(friends and foes alike) around Prophet Mohammad (s.a.w) were experts of Arabic, and admired Quran for its obviously incontestable style. Starjade says: I think you may have noticed I have contested that.
{only upto your level. not a standard one}
There are many foreign words or phrases which are employed in the Qur�an, some of which have no Arabic equivalent, and others which do.
Arthur Jeffrey, in his book Foreign Vocabulary of the [Koran], has gathered some 300 pages dealing with foreign words in the Qur�an, many of which must have been used in pre-Qur�anic Arabic, but quite a number also which must have been used little or not at all before they were included in the Qur�an. One must wonder why these words were borrowed, as it puts doubt on whether �Allah�s language� is sufficient enough to explain and reveal all that Allah had intended. Some of the foreign words include:
a. Pharaoh: an Egyptian word which means king or potentate, which is repeated in the Qur�an 84 times. {Quraanic word as you know is Fir�on (sounding like sit on). Allah chose it, perhaps b/c it�s a proper noun.} b. Adam and Eden: Accadian words which are repeated 24 times. A more correct term for �Adam� in Arabic would be basharan or insan, meaning �mankind.� �Eden� would be the word janna in Arabic, which means �garden.�
{it is Aadum as in Quran, why, that�s proper noun}. b. Abraham (sometimes recorded as Ibrahim): comes from the Assyrian language. The correct Arabic equivalent would be Abu Raheem. {always Ibraheem, never Abraham, proper noun. Abu Raheem would mean son of merciful.}
d. Persian words i. Haroot and Maroot are Persian names for angels. {they are proper names of two specific angels.} ii. Sirat meaning �the path� has the Arabic equivalent, Altareeq. iii. Hoor meaning �disciple� has the Arabic equivalent, Tilmeeth. {who can say whether they were borrowed from Arabic to Persian or otherwise. Siraat is correctly an Arabic word. As for Hoor, it does not mean desciple. And Tilmeedh means student} iv. Jinn meaning �good or evil demons� has the Arabic equivalent, Ruh.
{certainly not, Jinns are separate species while Ruh means soul}
v.Firdaus meaning �the highest or seventh heaven� has the Arabic equivalent, Jannah. { there will be stages in Jannah, the highest one will be Jannat-ul-Firdous. May Allah take us there near Mohammad Mustafa Sal Allaho AleheWassalam, our leader, our prophet, Allah�s beloved Prophet.} e. Syriac words: Taboot, Taghouth, Zakat, Malakout are all Syriac words which have been borrowed and included in the �Arabic� Qur�an.
f. Hebrew words: Heber, Sakinah, Maoon, Taurat, Jehannim, Tufan (deluge) are all Hebrew words which have been borrowed and included in the �Arabic� Qur�an.
g. Greek words: Injil, which means �gospel� was borrowed, yet it has the Arabic equivalent, Bisharah. Iblis is not Arabic, but a corruption of the Greek word Diabolos.
h. Christian Aramaic: Qiyama is the Aramaic word for resurrection.
i. Christian Ethiopic: Malak (2:33) is the Ethiopic word for angel.
{ can�t you sense that if they were absorbed in Arabic before the Quraan was revealed, they were good to use for the purpose of illustration. If alongwith Quraan, it could be for the preciseness of usage or accuracy as for proper nouns. Afterall it was Allah who sent the previous scriptures as He sent Quraan. O yes, didn�t you forget the word Allah deliberately.}
Starjade concludes: So that matter is done and dusted. It seems your Islamic propaganda has some flaws in it that you are not mentioning or just did not know. You know now though don�t you. Speaking with Starjade the much loved Doomsday Prophet is most certainly an education.
{much loved prophet�.who has to work hard for his false propaganda himself, has sure acquired knowledge for his purpose, but fails to have a true faith. Even Satan or Iblees has ample knowledge but of what good?}
Hafsa you said: Really? Hinduism is even older and even in their old scripture this punishment is mentioned (refer their Vishnusutra Ch.5,verse 49).
Starjade says: (sigh) people always seem to go on about Hinduism a religion I have never bothered to give much study. After all they worship many false Gods so what could they know. Besides in their religion they do not have anyone claiming they are that Deuteronomy Ch 18 v 15/18 Prophet that God promised Moses he would raise up do they.
If you hear them ever make such a claim let me know and I will go pay them a visitation.
And is that form of Islamic punishment you show no proof to in the Old Testament or just in the Koran and obscure false god worshipping religions like Hinduism. Right then so your comment on them is irrelevant.
I bet those Hindu�s would have liked the story of the worship of the Golden Calf (chuckle)
{well, all nations were sent with some prophets till one time who brought for them the religion of the only one God. It kept on changing with time however. So an ancient punishment that exists in old scriptures must be related to each other. As for their making a claim for prophets, it�s too small. Someone among them keeps claiming to be God himself every now and then. You do have a scope in such a society I guess. Try your luck.}
Hafsa you said: If Pharoah had turned so kind as to let them go, why did they have to leave at all?
Starjade says: I meant the Pharaoh let the Hebrews go because he knew the living God of Moses was God. The Egyptians were into very powerful Magik in those days. They tried everything to defeat the power of the living God and failed. In the End even the Pharaoh became a believer and knew his power was not good enough to stand against the living God of Moses. So he let the Hebrews go having no real choice in the matter.
It is then illogical for that same Pharaoh to attack or threaten those magicians when he knew the whole power of Egypt could not stand against the living God of Abraham.
{Fir�on only believed in the real God of Moses when he was sinking in the sea. Here I can prove through physical evidence also. His body was found in the sea. Allah told in Quraan about that his body would be saved. Where is such a claim in Exodus. It then turns out that Quran was a step ahead reveleation. As put by another author:
The Qur�an gives an additional piece of information in Surah Yunus chapter 10 verse 92: "This day shall We
save thee in thy body, that thou mayest be a sign to those who come
after thee! But verily, many among mankind are heedless of Our Signs!"
Dr. Maurice Bucaille, after a thorough research proved that although Rameses II was known to have persecuted the Israelites as per the Bible, he actually died while Moses (pbuh) was taking refuge in Median. Rameses II�s son Merneptah who succeeded him as Pharaoh drowned during the exodus. In 1898, the mummified body of Merneptah was found in the valley of Kings in Egypt. In 1975, Dr. Maurice Bucaille with other doctors received permission to examine the Mummy of Merneptah, the findings of which proved that Merneptah probably died from drowning or a violent shock which immediately preceeded the moment of drowning. Thus the Qur�anic verse that we shall save his body as a sign, has been fulfilled by the Pharaohs� body being kept at the Royal Mummies room in the Egyptian Museum in Cairo.
Hafsa you said: However the writer was so benevolent to write revolutionary poetic essays containing subjects that must have required immense scientific, historic, psychic research, without any error consistently for some 23 years and provide it to another man secretly for him to act as a prophet. What a man his idol must be! Why was he never caught in open desserts surrounded by people?
Starjade says: Islamic propaganda and idolization is a shallow form of defense. All idolizers proclaim all sorts for their idols. Some to this day say Elvis is still alive and well. Glorifying someone and inventing stories about their idols is a common thing for idols to do. And do not pretend that there are no errors in the Koran for I have already established many. You are just going for that paddle in denial. Clearly they did not research much. And what do you change the Islamic brag now that the words of the Koran came from the mouth of Muhammad and the (cough) angel Gabriel. You offer a weak argument.
{ there was no idolization in the clues I gave you that you didn�t want to follow. More specifically now:
LOGICAL GROUNDS TO PROVE THAT THE PROPHET DID NOT LEARN THE QUR�AN FROM JEWS OR CHRISTIANS
Thus, historically and logically it cannot be established that there was a human source for the Qur�an.
Hafsa you said: Proves how true your interpretation of this verse is!
Starjade says: I do not make interpretations. The law of Deuteronomy Ch 19 v 15 is a law that determines matters of the truth. I have had Islamic and Christian experts trying to dispute those matters of the law of Deuteronomy Ch 19 v 15 and they all failed to dispute the matter. It is a law brought down by Moses from the living God himself. You do recall who Moses is don�t you.? And who the living God of Moses is don�t you. The law of Deuteronomy is self explanatory.
Of course as you give worship to a pagan moon god Hubal al�ilah then you will have only heard of the living God of Moses. The living God of Moses is the living God. I am a Prophet who does have a provable connection to the living God. That is why I can challenge the whole of Islam bites the Dust. I also challenged the Christians and they also bit the Dust. I am not a novice.
{ What�s your real name if you�re not a novice? And what was the faith of your parents if you are neither a Christian nor a Jew?
Also kindly don�t use Green colour in this discussion as it causes confusion b/w you and me, and it is the color of islam. }
Hafsa you have said: You have not given a single discrepancy, and just don�t realize. sure u know the meaning of this word?
Starjade says: Don�t you feel shame to feed such a lie when others can read these words for themselves. There is no hiding place for you. And other people do take notes on the things that I say.
{I suppose this is wishful thinking on your part. And so is the rest of your tale which I don�t even consider for replying.}
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Do you see that we have a Kuffar Shirker in our midst tsk tsk
tsk. And Hafsa of all people shirking the Sura 4:82 challenge
Tsk tsk. I thought he would have prepared some defence but it
seems Hafsa has throw in the towel. Shirking no less Eeeek. 
Is it all so easy eh.? For Islam to fall when faced with the
Sura 4:82 challenges of the Doomsday prophet Starjade. 
There is all of you and just one of me (along with the
living God of course) And you are seen to be powerless against
me. Well looky here i did warn you all in the beginnings.
I am most 
