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Sura 4:82 A Challenge
for Islam. Posts 742. Views 6597.
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silkworm
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SILKWORM SAYS TO STARJADE: Please follow the following procedure: * Press 1 If you are doing drugs * Press 2 If you are depressed * Press 3 If you are suicidal * Press 4 If you think George W is the name of a new Burrito introduced by Taco Bell *
Press 5 If you think Anna Nic-hole Smith is the President of Pakistan |
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UmDanu 
Junior Member Joined: 21 February 2005 Location: Ireland Online Status: Offline Religion: Islam(Sunni) Posts: 218 |
After 40 pages, maybe this thread could finally do with being closed?
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Kayyam
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That
is not a reason for closing threads.
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hafsa
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Starjade says: I quote these Suras from the Koran for the benefit of your guidance as you question the authenticity of my words on these matters.
Starjade says: ..Old Testament.Written by the people who lived in those Times and understand the words spoken. It was not any Samaritan that forged the Golden Calf as it claims in the Koran. as if it was written once and never changed
The reason why this is an error found in the Koran is because. It was Aaron the brother of Moses who forged that Golden Calf to appease the blasphemous congregations. 2. Your proof is your book, like our proof is our book. What logic tells you then that error is in Quran? If you see otherwise, you can realize that since Haroon pbuh (Aaron) who was a Prophet, could not do such a thing. 3. Regarding Yusuf Ali , and Pickthall and Kasimirski and others:These people are normal people who have their own explanation. But of course they understand Quran better than you. In any case where does the fault go to the noble Quran? 4.but Aaron the brother of Moses and when the anger of Moses blazed he ground down that Golden Calf and forced them to eat it Who can eat gold and survive.does Exodus give further evidence that they immediately died or will you or your partners need to ammend that? 5.Regarding the sun set in murky water, you have been explained it before by several people but you insist to assume the way you want. As of the explanations of few people you mentioned, one has to check their credibility of as well as the truth in the reference. It is impossible the way you�re putting it at least. Islam is the only religion, which is accurate in science to date. Regarding ayat 38 of Sura Yaseen (36), we all know that it is referring to the separate orbits of sun and moon, that they cannot run into each other�s paths.
6.Starjade says: I have challenged many Arabic speaking Muslims on this issue of what the Koran calls Jesus and they could give no explanation for it.
At one end you think our Prophet Mohammad (Sal Allaho Alahe Wassalam) got trained by a Christian for Quran. On the other hand, he didn�t even know Jesus� name? 7.Mind you as few realize the Koran is not pure Arabic anyway and so this error of the name may not have come up then. People(friends and foes alike) around Prophet Mohammad (s.a.w) were experts of Arabic, and admired Quran for its obviously incontestable style. 8.and you will not find those magicians threatened with death or with the cutting off of the hands and feet on opposite sides and then being crucified which is an Islamic form of punishment in the Old Testament. Really? Hinduism is even older and even in their old scripture this punishment is mentioned (refer their Vishnusutra Ch.5,verse 49).
9.The Old Testament regarding these magicians is the source of that data. It was not the magicians fault and even the Pharaoh believed in the God of Moses which is why he let those people go. If Pharoah had turned so kind as to let them go, why did they have to leave at all? 10. Remind yourself that the Koran was written by an idolizer of Muhammad. However the writer was so benevolent to write revolutionary poetic essays containing subjects that must have required immense scientific, historic, psychic research, without any error consistently for some 23 years and provide it to another man secretly for him to act as a prophet. What a man his idol must be! Why was he never caught in open desserts surrounded by people?
11.Starjade says: I remind you all at this Time that it can be proven by the law of Deuteronomy Ch 19 v 15 that I am indeed a Prophet .. Proves how true your interpretation of this verse is! 12.You have been noting the errors in the Koran you have so far been unable to dispute. You have not given a single discrepancy, and just don�t realize. sure u know the meaning of this word? 13. regarding Abraha's army: Wishful thinking on your part. History has another view. They withdrew because they had small pox. Why would I need to wish, am I claiming prophecy. I�m telling you from history that the enemies of our Prophet had also observed for a fact. What reference of history are you taking on this?
14.Sura 2:249: When Talut set forth with the armies, he said: "(Allah) will test you at the stream: if any drinks of its water, He goes not with my army: Only those who taste not of it go with me: A mere sip out of the hand is excused." but they all drank of it, except a few. When they crossed the river,- He and the faithful ones with him,- they said: "This day We cannot cope with Jaloot (Goliath) and his forces." but those who were convinced that they must meet Allah, said: "How oft, by Allah.s will, Hath a small force vanquished a big one? Allah is with those who steadfastly persevere." 15. I remind you again of the Sura 4:82 states Do they not consider the Koran with care for if it had come from any other than Allah then surely they would have found much discrepancy therein. I have already proven the Koran does not come from God as the Koran contains staggering errors and discrepancies. So the Koran is not Divine as then the Koran shows deception then it is the Exodus that has validity. I remind you that everything in your Exodus is not binding on us. You have not given a single discrepancy, and just don�t realize. Sure u know the meaning of this word? 16.And so why not show what the Sura 46/12 says so we have a comparison to see if what is said conflicts with the Exodus statements. if it does conflict with Exodus, Quran will be the accurate and valid reference unlike your desire. now let me illustrate Aayat 12 of Sura 46 alongwith its previous Aayaat as I quoted last time are referring to the Prophet Mohammad (s.a.w) and the Book revealed on to him. - When Kafirs denied the Prophet Mohammad and the Book and called it magic (ayt 7), or someone has written it (Quran) for him (8), Allah tells him (Mohammad s.a.w) to say that if I (Mohammad) write it (Quran) (instead of it being from God) you people will not be able to save me from Him i.e. if I commit such a big crime as to say something on His behalf falsefully, there will be noone to save me. Allah is the witness between you and me(Mohammad) (as to who is lying about Quran)(8).
- Ayat 9 �Say: I am no new thing among the messengers (of Allah), nor know I what will be done with me or with you. I do but follow that which is inspired in me, and I am but a plain warner.� Is in the same context, as it is by Allah who is telling Mohammad to say this to those not realizing him being a messenger of Allah. - In Ayat 10 Allah contines to tell Mohammad to show to the disbelievers that from among the jews believed in Mohammad and Quran (not all, the �min� in Arabic is for �from�, it is mostly taken for a scholar of Jews named Abdullah bin Salam who accepted Mohammad on seeing him right away. He testified that this is a Prophet we expected in this region and will be given a Book.) so why do you not believe out of your (false) pride as you were not even informed by any means. � - In Ayat 11, Allah demonstrates why those who were powerful resisted Iman. It hurt their pride to see that these poor and less eminent people accepted Islam. They said, had there been some good in this (message, Quran), it would have first been accepted by us.(since we get the best of this world, we should be those to get it for religion.). since their claim was based on pride, they did not get guidance from this (Divine message Quran). Instead they blamed it to be a lie that was coming from previous scriptures.
17.Clearly there is a discrepancy here for Mary was claimed to be the mother of Jesus and she was not born at these Times. I could accept the errors in words after translations into different languages but it is clear that the daughter of Amrams wife is the mother of Miriam and not of Mary. They did live some 1500 years apart and are not the same person. It is clearly said though in Sura 19:28 Re-read the answer. As for what translates between Arabic and Hebrew or what did, has to be seen in light of how it is explained by scholars of that religion, not prejudiced enemies like you who say ahead �establishes Jesus and Muhammad as being frauds pretenders to my Throne�. 18.Jesus said in John Chapter 5 Verse 46: for had ye believed Moses, ye would have believed me, for he wrote of me. Verse 47: But if ye believe not his writings, how shall ye believe my words
Beautiful verses! 19. Daniel described a man not an Angel only Luke claims Gabriel was an Angel. There is no such thing as an Angel called Gabriel at all. It was fabricated by the writers of the New Testament to promote the false Prophet Jesus. Mathew did not name Gabriel but spoke of the Angel of the Lord. You should repent to God for saying this.Angel Jibraeel (Gabriel) spoke to all Prophets.
20. Starjade�s Revelations say: To all Christians Muslims and Jews. You are the most religiously ignorant people I have ever met. You speak as if you are religious and yet every one of you ignores the actual word of the Living God and I quote. If this is really so, why are you so involved in their religions, albeit you speak insults for almost each Prophet and their wives/ mothers. 21 If anyone accuses Jesus and Muhammad of Blasphemy then they would be found guilty of that crime of iniquity and sin because they do not have any witnesses to back up their claims and I just dare you all to try and produce witnesses for I am the expert in that field of knowledge not any of you or your religious leaders. You should repent on saying this. 22.And 11 Chapters of the Koran glorify Jesus as being a Prophet from God when the laws of Deuteronomy Ch 19 v 15 state otherwise which means the Koran is standing against the actual words of the living God in 11 Chapters of that Koran which I also name as being errors in the Koran. <<state of hate and desperation>> 23.Oh yes Muhammad who believed in Jesus proclaimed himself and said that he alone was that Deuteronomy Ch 18 v 15/18 Prophet didn�t he. Where did he quote this verse? 24.Why not ask Muhammads wife Aaisha she was 6 yrs old when he married her. No child gets mature for they .. I do know the answer but since your state of mind is quite out of tune, out of rage and desperatrion to be accepted as a Prophet, I�ll leave it for some other time. 25. (Regarding Hamaan and Firoon,) Can you prove he was the prime minister of the Egyptian Pharaoh? You said it yourself! check your question.i didn't even find it clearly in Quran. 26.you are using Esther refernce to tell me Hamaan was above princes, so where does Quran make a mistake!
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Starjade
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Kayyam said: I thought of this. But the bottom line is that there is no contemporary historical source to prove one claim or another. The records were most likely destroyed by the post-exodus conquerors. There are several historical theories but no proof.
Starjade says: I am happy that you thought about it all Kayyam in fact you took a while to re appear so you must have been thinking a long Time. However I researched this matter diligently and there is no mistake. Nefure Hatshepsut was not married to anyone when she adopted Moses. She only became married after Moses killed an Egyptian and fled Egypt.
Had Nefure Hatshepsut been married at that Time I would have seen that was so and reported on that fact and withdrawn the error. After all it was not that important as I have well over 500 errors that do exist in the Koran so the Koran is established as not coming from God either way. Out of the many errors that I have said existed in the Koran I have only withdrawn two of them.
As I said in the beginnings. I only discuss these Islamic matters under Islamic law and whatever is found to be true is accepted as being true and whatever is found to be false will be rejected as being false. It works both way. I can establish the claims of Muhammad are not true by Deuteronomy law Ch 19 v 15. So it is not such a big deal for me. And again I say. I did not use the Old Testament to establish this error in the Koran in fact I used Egyptian history.
Kayyam you said: According to Wikipedia there is some debate on this point: "Some claim the Arabic name Isa is related to the biblical Esau. but it is also similar in the vowels to the Aramaic version of Jesus, viz. Eesho" Interestingly, Arab Christians refer to Jesus as Yasu'a while Arab Muslims refer to him as Isa. The source of this is the difference in transliteration of the Bible into Arabic and the Koran. Naturally, each side tends to think that they are more right than the other. hafsa, Good job debunking these "errors". They are not very original - most are copy-paste which is something starjade is reluctant to admit. Kayyam
Starjade says; I did admit many of the errors I have that are found in the Koran do come from other scholars. There are staggering lists of errors existing in the Koran. You Muslims do not dare reply on the 21 errors that I have said exist in the Koran which do exist on the End of Times web site. Muslims who were afraid to respond to those errors asked me for other errors found in the Koran that have a Sura attached that they could go check out. It makes no difference where the errors come from as anyone diligently studying the Koran will find the same errors as anyone else.
Of course as I am something of an expert on more than three major religions than I would also see errors the Islamic scholar would miss. I can cite the sacrifice of Ishmael in the Koran as an example. That scholar who disputed that it was Ishmael not Isaac made errors in his speech. As For Issa I asked an Arab his view on that error and he could not argue against my point in fact he agreed it should say Yesuwa, And was an Arab who spoke Arabic fluently.
Starjade says: I have no need to flatter myself as I know I am that good. I said be wary for Starjade sometimes leaves traps for unsuspecting Muslims and Christians. I have started these conversations with most easy errors that are found in the Koran. There are more hard core ones hiding in the shadows. Then you have yet to face Starjades 21 errors that are found in the Koran that no Muslim can reply an answer to. It seems only Katatonic bliss has dared a reply.
I suggest you read my replies to Hafsa before you get too overconfident. I did say I am not a Novice. You have voiced your own doubts but you did not dispute what was said. I researched the matter of Nefure Hatshepsut and on that there is no doubt and an Arab already admitted to me that the name of Jesus in Arabic is Yesuwa and claimed it was possible some English translations of the Koran made the error. But that does not excuse the Arabic speaking Muslims who say isa and not Yesuwa now does it.
Starjade says: So when Muhammad claims that he is the Ch 18 v 15/18 Deuteronomy Prophet as Prophesied in the Old Testament and when Muhammad claims he satisfies the Prophecies of Isaiah in the Old Testament then of course Muhammad claims the Old Testament is sound and true. Have you been able to explain away Muhammad�s belief in Jesus yet. Jesus did claim he was that Deuteronomy Ch 18 v 15/18 Prophet which is why they call Jesus the King of the Jews.
That means
11 Chapters of the Koran are in error because Muhammad said he alone
was that specific Prophet and Muhammad clearly did not realise or know
Jesus claimed he was that Prophet 1000 years or so before Muhammad.
Why do you not explain that away if your so full of confidence. |
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Starjade
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Hasfa you said: To see what Ayat no. 6:155 means and whom it is directed to, go through it from:146. For those who followed the Jewish Law, We forbade every (animal) with undivided hoof, and We forbade them that fat of the ox and the sheep, except what adheres to their backs or their entrails, or is mixed up with a bone: this in recompense for their wilful disobedience: for We are true (in Our ordinances). Hasfa you said: 147. If they accuse thee (Prophet Mohammad) of falsehood, say: "Your Lord is full of mercy all- embracing; but from people in guilt never will His wrath be turned back.
Starjade says: I made that accusation under Islamic law and about the Koran and I proved the accusation was Justified. The fact then is that does prove the word of Muhammad is also not true.
Hasfa you said: 148. Those who give partners (to Allah. will say: "If Allah had wished, we should not have given partners to Him nor would our fathers; nor should we have had any taboos." So did their ancestors argue falsely, until they tasted of Our wrath. Say: "Have ye any (certain) knowledge? If so, produce it before us. Ye follow nothing but conjecture: ye do nothing but lie."
Starjade says: Well I do have certain knowledge and that is religious knowledge and by challenging Islam under Islamic law as was goaded upon me by Muslims I can produce that evidence and knowledge to the Islamic congregations. Then under those discussions we can see what is true and what is not. Yet hearken all of you for my religious knowledge is strong and Islam bit the dust.
Hasfa you said: 149. Say: "With Allah is the argument that reaches home: if it had been His will, He could indeed have guided you all."
Starjade says: There is evidence that Muslims worship Allah who is none other than the pagan moon god Hubal al�ilah and not the living God of Abraham.
Hasfa you said: 150. Say: "Bring forward your witnesses to prove that Allah did forbid so and so." If they bring such witnesses, be not thou amongst them: Nor follow thou the vain desires of such as treat our signs as falsehoods, and such as believe not in the Hereafter: for they hold others as equal with their Guardian-Lord.
Starjade says: I have brought my evidence and I also have more than four witnesses that can be called to establish that I am not guilty of any crime of iniquity or sin. My word is already established by Deuteronomy Ch 19 v 15 law to be true. So then it is Islam and its followers that will be perplexed.
Hasfa you said: 151. Say: "Come, I will rehearse what Allah hath (really) prohibited you from": Join not anything as equal with Him; be good to your parents; kill not your children on a plea of want;- We provide sustenance for you and for them;- come not nigh to shameful deeds. Whether open or secret; take not life, which Allah hath made sacred, except by way of justice and law: thus doth He command you, that ye may learn wisdom.
Starjade says: Those words come from a religion built on follow Islam or die.
Hasfa you said: 152. And come not nigh to the orphan's property, except to improve it, until he attain the age of full strength; give measure and weight with (full) justice;- no burden do We place on any soul, but that which it can bear;- whenever ye speak, speak justly, even if a near relative is concerned; and fulfil the covenant of Allah. thus doth He command you, that ye may remember.
Starjade says; This burden I place on your soul, Islamic law and the Sura 4:82 states that you can bear it. In fact you have no choices. I always speak justly and under Islamic law. If deception is apparent it will come from you or your Islamic congregations. Under Islamic law I propose to only speak the truth and what is true is true and what is false will be seen to be false.
Hasfa you said: 153. Verily, this (above instructions) is My (Allah�s) way, leading straight: follow it: follow not (other) paths: they (those who argued the revelation of Allah upon Pr Mohammad) will scatter you about from His (great) path: thus doth He command you. that ye may be righteous.
Starjade says: My way is not to scatter but to gather together for the sake of mankind. I always follow the paths that the living God hath set out before me. I am the one who brings religious Revelations and the word of the living God. Muhammad is established by the law to be a fraud misguiding you all as proven under Islamic law and the Sura 4:82 challenge. Islam has bitten the dust and so the righteous under Islamic law must convert away from Islam rejecting the Koran and the claims of Muhammad. He is not the Deuteronomy Ch 18 v 15/18 prophet he has claimed himself to being.
Hasfa you said: 154. Moreover, We gave Moses the Book, completing (Our favour) to those (among his followers of his time) who would do right (and not change it for a miserable benefit) , and explaining all things in detail (including the coming of Prophet Mohammad) ,- and a guide and a mercy, that they might believe in the meeting with their Lord.
Starjade says: Islam has changed the book of Moses and the Prophecies he gave for their own miserable benefit. After explaining these things in detail under Islamic law and the Sura 4:82 challenge it is established that Muhammad is not who he has claimed himself to being in fact he is proven to be presumptuous to think he could speak in the name of the living God.
Hasfa you said: 155. And this is a Book (Quraan) which We have revealed as a blessing: so follow it and be righteous, that ye may receive mercy:
Starjade says: Islamic law and the Sura 4:82 challenge states that you must reject the Koran and the words of Muhammad for they did not come from the living God.
Hasfa you said: 156. Lest ye should say: "The Book was sent down to two Peoples before us, and for our part, we remained unacquainted with all that they learned by assiduous study:"
Starjade says: What book is spoken of ? The Koran is established as a fraud sent to misguide the congregations. Those who did not know were unacquainted with religious knowledge and the actual word of the living God.
Hasfa you said: 157. Or lest ye should say: "If the Book had only been sent down to us, we should have followed its guidance better than they." Now then hath come unto you a clear (sign) from your Lord,- and a guide and a mercy: then who could do more wrong than one who rejecteth Allah.s signs, and turneth away therefrom? In good time shall We requite those who turn away from Our signs, with a dreadful penalty, for their turning away.
Starjade says: Again what book do you speak about. The Koran is proven by the Sura 4:82 to not be sent from God. Those who did think the Koran came from God were the ones being deceived as I have proven under Islamic law and by the Sura 4:82 challenge. When you speak of dreadful penalty that is again a matter of follow Islam or die. So people are given no choice but to accept a falsehood or suffer grievous harm.
Hasfa you said: 158. Are they (thy unbelievers) waiting to see if the angels come to them, or thy Lord (Himself), or certain of the signs of thy Lord! the day that certain of the signs of thy Lord do come, no good will it do to a soul to believe in them then if it believed not before nor earned righteousness through its faith. Say: "Wait ye: we too are waiting."
Starjade says: The descendants of Abraham have waited thousands of years for the Deuteronomy Ch 18 v 15/18 Prophet to come and he is the Lord King a King of Kings and be sure that I have arrived and can prove my Crown before the congregations and so it is inevitable that I would establish your false pretenders to my Throne to be frauds before the very eyes of those congregations that follow those false Prophets. The waiting is over but you all shy away from my God sent Revelations in fear of truth and because you all became idolaters of man. Creating new forms of Golden Calf�s in the forms of the Koran and of Muhammad your idol.
Hasfa you said: Similarly I gave the reference of previous Ayaat 46:12 to explain it in previous post.
Starjade says: No doubt I replied to those as well.
Hasfa you said: As for your saying �It is established by Egyptian history that Nefure Hatshepsut was the one who adopted Moses and she was not married at that Time�� we cannot agree at all as the �establishment� is valid only through Quraan, nothing short of that. �egyptian history� is especially known for its intrigues and politics, rulers and �their� historians, caves after caves, mysteries after mysteries!!
Starjade says: I myself researched the matter of who adopted Moses and I did not make any error. The Muslim I was in conversations with at that Time was the sort of scholar who would also check upon my every word as would all the Muslims in that forum searching for some error or mistake. There is no error Nefure Hatshepsut was not married. If Nefure had been married at that Time to anyone I would have reported that fact just as diligently. After all I know of many hundreds of errors in the Koran so one or two would not matter to the inevitable outcome of that revelation.
But Nefure Hatshepsut was not married when she adopted Moses and only became Married after Moses killed and Egyptian and had to flee Egypt. The Koran is in error. When Moses came back to face Egypt and to free the Hebrews he found Nefure Hatshepsut married or perhaps you also dispute that tale writ for your own convenience. The Pharaoh who Nefure had married was the Pharaoh that went up against Moses and the living God. And he lost.
Nefure Hatshepsut is the most famous Egyptian woman in Egyptian history. She became Egypt�s first female Pharaoh. So to claim her history is not known is truly a drowning man grasping out for straws that do not exist.
Hasfa you said: You have got in a habit of �one down, more to go� sort of things.
Starjade says: (tee hee hee) Yes I do like to cause teeth to gnash not just to keep you on your toes but as a warning to you that no matter what you think there are staggering amounts of errors that do exist in the Koran which has an inevitable result for Islam.
Hasfa you said: What has made you so much an enemy of Islam ?? are you like this just because you�re a jew or has some incident happened in your life. After all when a person is at peace with himself, he doesn�t get so aggressive towards people of other faith.
Starjade says; I am not an enemy of Islam. I am not a Jew or Christian or other. I am the living Gods Deuteronomy Ch 18 v 15/18 Doomsday Prophet. That is why I speak on these issues. Do not take these things to any personal level. This is not something personal for I was goaded by Muslims to challenge Islam and under Islam law and with the Sura 4:82 challenge. Now then how respectful have I been to only discuss these matters under Islamic law when already Deuteronomy law Ch 19 v 15 destroys the claims of Islam in but a few words. The law of Deuteronomy Ch 19 v 15 is the actual word of the living God and be sure you would all be flapping if you had to try and produce actual witness Testimonies to the claims of Muhammad.
Yes an act of Blasphemy by the Crown of England and those working on its services has caused me to become grieved and some Christians and Jews also gave them assistance. There is a penalty for blasphemy upon their heads. I am a Prophet who does have the power to stone people to death in earthquake rubble so there is a sting in my tale.
There are certain Muslims who I consider to be the perfect soldiers who can help me put those matters right to some degree but these religious matters take precedence. Be sure however I will not raise any hand to save anyone in Britain or any Roman Catholic or any Jew living in Britain and that puts the Islamic communities here in Britain in a grave situation. It is a long story and I will not be getting into it here. Be sure the Crown of England and its forces do have some concern.
Hasfa you said: I know of many contradictions in others� books for example, but I would probably never go about going to Christian, jewish or others� websites and pick faults in their holy books. And focus so much energy and time on that too. Why?
Starjade says: You have no need to for the Doomsday Prophet Starjade does that all the Time. The Christians bit the dust a long Time ago and they cannot defend Christianity or the claims of Jesus from my God given Revelations. Read Starjades final conclusion the End of the post I sent as a reply to you. That explains why I do those things and it is not done from spite or anger it is done from a reason few could ever even believe. That is why I am focussing so much energy into these important Revelations.
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Starjade
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whatevergirl
you
said:
whatevergirl you said: Hi, I'm new here--I'm Catholic, and have been scrolling through some posts/threads, and seeing the parallels between our faiths, albeit, the major differences, too. But, I thought this thread to be eye catching, because in Catholic/Christian faith, the Ten Commandments somewhat address this topic through the Commandment, of 'thou shalt not bear false witness against your neighbor.' Some people translate that to mean strictly in legal/law cases, but it means to not accept lies, and ignore them, but to stand up for the truth in Christ. Whatever the truth may be--It might not necessarily mean from religious views...it might mean from just you know someone who is lying, and you should stand up and state it.
Starjade says: Well hello there whatevergirl. The Ten Commandments that you speak of originated as a part of the Jews religion from the Old Testament and they are accepted and exist also because of that in Christianity and Islam as well. But its source of belief remains as Old Testament text. Sometimes people bear false witness without even realising that they are doing that. Hence such religious debates and conversations as these can sort out what is true and what is not by the scholars of those relkigious congregations.
whatevergirl you said: This is very hard for me, because I work for someone (I don't mean to sound gossipy) who is very unethical and tries to undermine his staff (he says I'm his 'favorite,' but I know he does this to me, too) So, how can we stand up for ourselves, and yet keep our jobs, for example?
Starjade says: If you feel harassed then claim you are a Christian then why not listen to the advice of Jesus who would say move away from your enemy to another town. There are many unethical people living here on earth. I see them in varying degrees as being Demons. Sometimes it is not possible to stand up for yourself and defend your job at the same time. But if it is so grievous then start to look for employment elsewhere. The problem then would go away and so that is your solution. Sometimes you just cannot always get what you want.
whatevergirl you said: My co-worker (friend) and I both know he does unethical things...not illegal things, but unethical things, and it bugs us very much. He is a self procalimed atheist, but I've tried to plant seeds when possible with him about having a faith in God.
Starjade says: There is no point in your voicing your religious views hoping they would be adopted faithfully by another who openly does not believe and is not interested. Do you hope he will gain morals if he shared your religious beliefs which are false any way by the way. So you try and convince a disbeliever about Jesus when Jesus is a fraud and so you lead your employer into a deception.
whatevergirl you said: Is this what you are meaning in this thread, or do you mean if someone is lying about an Islamic law? Thanks for listening...I'd like to hear your thoughts.
Starjade says:
I think we may understand more of what you said if you show example.
I have spoken of many Islamic laws on this forum. In the beginnings
of this thread. Which Tsk tsk tsk the moderator erased.
I invoked an Islamic law upon all Muslims. This law says if you
know something that is not true then you must be unafraid and stand
up and state it. The matter will then be discussed and whatever
is found to be true will be accepted as being true and whatever is found
to be false will be rejected as being false. That is the law I
invoke on all Muslims and I only discuss the religion of Islam with
Muslims under that law. Otherwise they would be forbidden to speak
and reply. Then I bring on the Sura 4:82 Challenge. |
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Starjade
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Bill2702 you said:
Starjade says: So we have a poet in the house. Are you so sure he is crazy. ? How do you define reality? Sigmund Freud says: Reality is a state of collective perceptions.
Author Starjade Doomsday prophet.
Old Sigmund fraud would be annoyed. At the states of mind that
I have employed. The deeper levels of which I�d reach. Passed
insane channels of which I�d breach. A danger he�d say I�d be bound.
To perceive the madness of which I�d found. For a change of thought
a change of path. Can summon on a Devils wrath. Then
no chance of a mercy plea. For your lost in the chaos of insanity. Only
personal power and knowledge pure. Can unchain the locks on minds own
door. Again to wonder in clarity. Just what on earths reality. |
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Starjade
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Starjade says: Wassamatter are
you afraid of deep religious debate. You dont even talk here. These
conversations are probably way too deep for you.
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Starjade
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Kayyam said: That is not a reason for closing threads.
Starjade says: He is a shirker Kayyam.
Starjade says; And Starjade replied comprehensively for what that was worth. I agree to a point and we were not alive in those days. However the Old Testament is the only oldest source of the data of that tale and of those Times. How Old is the Old Testament. ? Perhaps 6000 years. What�s the Jewish calendar say on such a thing and how are they so sure.?
The Koran on the other hand was writ just 1425 years ago. So that is a new tale that is not giving the source data. Face the facts that Muhammad used that Old Testament to proclaim that he is the long awaited Deuteronomy Ch 18 v 15/18 prophet that God promised Moses he would raise up. Including the statements of Isaiah and in so making that claim from those Old Testament Prophecies Muhammad does give credibility to the Old Testament and their stories.
I think you are not exactly being honest after all the Old Testament records those events from thousands of years ago. They do match up with Egyptian history and a supposed picture of Nefure Hatshepsut exists in this very forum. So there are written periods of Time and places that do exist.
The fact the Pharaoh let the Hebrews go shows that even he was perplexed by the living God of Abraham and became a believer in the End. So it is illogical to say he would kill the magicians because they were in the same boat as him.
The threat of death by cutting off of the hands and feet on the opposite
sides and then crucifixion is even today an Islamic form of punishment.
Just as Crucifixion was to the Romans. So we can tell who is telling
the tales for they base their writings on their personal knowledge.
Every religious person knows the punishments for blasphemy is a death
by stoning. Yet of course any element of the earth will do to
despatch the guilty party. How can you say these things are not known. We do have a thing called archaeology don�t we. And History and Old Testament text of which the Koran was emulating. Why not go to visit Egypt and see the statues of Nefure Hatshepsut holding the baby Moses.
The fact
is however there is no evidence to back up the claims of the Koran that
are standing against the words of the Old Testament. So you are
in denial. The Koran is taking its data and claims from the Old
Testament and re writing them in other Islamic words. |
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Starjade
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Starjade says: I quote these Suras from the Koran for the benefit of your guidance as you question the authenticity of my words on these matters.
Starjade says; Did do. And I pointed out another Muslim had other understanding for I was quoting another Muslims words. My own words were already writ by then. I was not going to backtract. The text was already long and I have more to reply to than just those conversations.
Starjade says: ..Old Testament.Written by the people who lived in those Times and understand the words spoken. It was not any Samaritan that forged the Golden Calf as it claims in the Koran.
Hafsa you said: as if it was written once and never changed
Starjade says: Oh any Bible with a Christians new Testament has often been re written plus wars caused text to be lost. However two religions follow the text of the Old Testament. So how can just one religion only 1425 years old ever hope to stand against those already written words and compete when their own data is established as being unreliable.
Starjade says: The reason why this is an error found in the Koran is because. It was Aaron the brother of Moses who forged that Golden Calf to appease the blasphemous congregations.
Hafsa you said: 2. Your proof is your book, like our proof is our book. What logic tells you then that error is in Quran?
Starjade says: The logic is on who I actually can be established by Deuteronomy law to be plus the staggering lists of errors that I have that do exist in the Koran. Many of which you have not yet even seen. You just have the tame stuff. The Sura 4:82 of the Koran states Do they not consider the Koran with care for if it had come from any other than Allah then surely they would have found much discrepancy therein. Now that is Logic. You must have noticed those errors that exist in the Koran.
Tell you what why not stop the press so to speak and explain just why it is Muhammad believed in Jesus and 11 Chapters of the Koran believe in Jesus when Jesus claimed that he was the Deuteronomy Ch 18 v 15/18 prophet that God promised Moses he would raise up and that is why the Christians call Jesus the King of the Jews.
Then explain why it is that Muhammad has proclaimed himself to being the Deuteronomy Ch 18 v 15/18 prophet that the living God promised Moses he would raise up which is why Muslims call Muhammad the Prophet to the Nation.
Starjade concludes: There are staggering amounts of errors existing in the Koran which is explained by the logic of the Sura 4:82. Or do you convenianlty ignore those errors and these issues with your beliefs that are illogical and unfounded.
Hafsa you said: If you see otherwise, you can realize that since Haroon pbuh (Aaron) who was a Prophet, could not do such a thing.
Starjade says; I would agree with you. But this is what it says in the Old Testament as recorded by those Jews who lived in those Times. I would have said Aaron would have known better. But he was left alone aparted from Moses who had gone off for an age onto the Mountain and his fate was not known. The people harassed Aaron and so he gave into their wishes. Blasphemy I agree ludicrous and shocking and yet that is what those Jews who lived in those Times said was done. It was Aaron the brother of Moses who forged the Golden Calf. Now that is a surprise and a shock. Few people to this day even dare speak of that and so only those who have actually read the Old Testament word for word would realize such a thing. Tsk tsk Tsk��
It was Aaron the brother of Moses who forged that Golden Calf to appease the blasphemous congregations.
Exodus 32:1 And when the people saw that Moses delayed to come down out of the mount, the people gathered themselves together unto Aaron, and said unto him, Up, make us gods, which shall go before us; for as for this Moses, the man that brought us up out of the land of Egypt, we know not what is become of him. Exodus 32:2 And Aaron said unto them, Break off the golden earrings, which are in the ears of your wives, of your sons, and of your daughters, and bring them unto me. Exodus 32:3 And all the people brake off the golden earrings which were in their ears, and brought them unto Aaron. Exodus 32:4 And he received them at their hand, and fashioned it with a graving tool, after he had made it a molten calf: and they said, These be thy gods, O Israel, which brought thee up out of the land of Egypt. Exodus 32:5 And when Aaron saw it, he built an altar before it; and Aaron made proclamation, and said, To morrow is a feast to the LORD.
Starjade concludes. So then this is a proven error that exists in the Koran.
And I remind you that the Koran itself was uncertain of the story of the Golden calf and had changed its story several times. The Qur'an says that the calf worshipped by the Israelites at mount Horeb was molded by a Samaritan (sura 20:85-87, 95-97).
It is interesting to notice that while Yusuf Ali attempts to change
this word to "Samiri" and Pickthall to "As Samirii,"
Arberry in the English, and Kasimirski in the French both correctly
translate it "Samaritan." Yusuf Ali, in his footnotes, "bends
over backwards" to explain his choice by suggesting that the name
could mean "Shemer," which denotes a stranger, or "Shomer,"
which means a watchman, the equivalent of "Samara" in Arabic,
which he implies is close enough to the Samari he is looking for. Once
again we find an awkward example of Ali attempting to twist the translation
in order to get out of a difficult scenario, similar to the examples
of "Periklytos," or the word "Machmad" which he
uses to signify Muhammad in the Bible. The Arabic simply does not give
Ali the leeway to concoct other meanings for this word. To be consistent
with the Arabic he should keep his translation consistent with the text,
as Arberry and Kasimirski have done. |
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silkworm 
Graduate Joined: 14 December 2005 Location: United States Online Status: Offline Religion: Islam(Muslim) Posts: 1053 |
Silkworm says to Starjade: Please stop this, or the pale of islam will be empty as millions of moslems will leave Islam (looking for you) Starjade says: %^&^%%**&()%$#@^&*^ Silkworm turns to camera and says: There is no response, I think he is abducted by the aliens to extort infor out of her/him
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mai moslemah
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salam alikom, Starjade u dont know abc islam,and u dont want to know ,you are repeating some words without understanding please open ur mind ,,,they are all these 40 pages explained for u very simple concept of islam and u still repeating some word without understanding i suggest for u start from the biging ,,from real sources of islam not just lies here is some:
i hope u get that,if u get that tell me and i will give u more
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Kayyam
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This is the place where we rock the pillars of Heaven. 