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Sura 4:82 A Challenge
for Islam. Posts 742. Views 6597.
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whatevergirl
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Hi, I'm new here--I'm Catholic, and have been scrolling through some posts/threads, and seeing the parallels between our faiths, albeit, the major differences, too. But, I thought this thread to be eye catching, because in Catholic/Christian faith, the Ten Commandments somewhat address this topic through the Commandment, of 'thou shalt not bear false witness against your neighbor.' Some people translate that to mean strictly in legal/law cases, but it means to not accept lies, and ignore them, but to stand up for the truth in Christ. Whatever the truth may be--It might not necessarily mean from religious views...it might mean from just you know someone who is lying, and you should stand up and state it. This is very hard for me, because I work for someone (I don't mean to sound gossipy) who is very unethical and tries to undermine his staff (he says I'm his 'favorite,' but I know he does this to me, too) So, how can we stand up for ourselves, and yet keep our jobs, for example? My co-worker (friend) and I both know he does unethical things...not illegal things, but unethical things, and it bugs us very much. He is a self procalimed atheist, but I've tried to plant seeds when possible with him about having a faith in God. Is this what you are meaning in this thread, or do you mean if someone is lying about an Islamic law?
Thanks for listening...I'd like to hear your thoughts. |
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Bill2702
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There is a crazy man living in the next room. He thinks he is the prophet of doom. Keeps on at me to repent before it�s too late. But I refuse to get into a long winded debate I will have the last laugh I�ll bet I haven�t even decided on the date yet
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hafsa
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Hello whatevergirl, Although i'm not sure whether you are addressing anyone generally, allow me give our version. in the case that you are, if i were in your place i would take a stand, particullarly if he is harming other innocent people. i might forgive him for when he userps my rights, but to let a person get away with oppressing your fellow beings is not a good thing. i might as well even take some personal risks at that, but help others in trouble. what do you think?
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Starjade
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Phew thank god that goddamn easter holiday thingy is over. And worse when i went to post this data in Blackpool all the Internet was offline and i had to leave Blackpool to post this. My apolagise for the delay. I have not had the opertunity yet to look at the other replies you have all made but I will respond.
And I see there is a poet in the house.
And Kayyam has re apeared. Oh Kayyam you underestimate the much
loved Doomsday prophet Starjade. What you think as good is not
always what it appears to be.
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Starjade
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I
have already replied to the error 1 and established that it still exists
in the Koran. Now
here are my replies to the rest. 2. The Qur'an says that the calf worshipped by the Israelites at mount Horeb was molded by a Samaritan (sura 20:85-87, 95-97). Yet the term 'Samaritan' was not coined until 722 B.C., which is several hundred years after the events recorded in Exodus. Thus, the Samaritan people could not have existed during the life of Moses, and therefore, could not have been responsible for molding the calf. hafsa you said: Due to errors and missing links within Exodus, it cannot be a clear reference. One has to have some judgment. If what are saying is true, and also assuming that the writers and editors of Exodus were without any evil intention to hide or change history, I understand maybe Samaritan was a school of magic followers following the traditions of Samiri magician; and when they got reputable, they were mentioned. Seems logical. On the other hand, it is quite possible this was /is being deliberately played with. Starjade says: - Sura 3:50 - And a verifier of that which is before me of the Taurat (Torah) and that I may allow you part of that which has been forbidden t you, and I have come to you with a sign from your Lord therefore be careful of (your duty to) Allah and obey me. - Sura 6.155: And this (Torah) is a Book We have revealed, blessed; therefore follow it and guard (against evil) that mercy may be shown to you. - Sura
32:23 - And certainly We gave the Book to Musa, so be not in doubt concerning
the receiving of it, and We made it a guide for the children of Israel. - Sura 46:12 we are told.... "And before it the Book of Musa (Moses) (Torah) was a guide and a mercy: and this is a Book verifying (it) in the Arabic language that it may warn those who are unjust and as good news for the doers of good......" In Sura 46:12 we are told.... "Yet before it there was the Book of Moses (Torah/Old Testement) which was an authority, and a mercy. This (the Qur'an) is the Book confirming it in the Arabic tongue....." Starjade says: I quote these Suras from the Koran for the benefit of your guidance as you question the authenticity of my words on these matters. Starjade says: Now hearken as the Koran has instructed you to the words of the Old Testament. Written by the people who lived in those Times and understand the words spoken. It was not any Samaritan that forged the Golden Calf as it claims in the Koran. The reason why this is an error found in the Koran is because. It was Aaron the brother of Moses who forged that Golden Calf to appease the blasphemous congregations. Exodus 32:1 And when the people saw that Moses delayed to come down out of the mount, the people gathered themselves together unto Aaron, and said unto him, Up, make us gods, which shall go before us; for as for this Moses, the man that brought us up out of the land of Egypt, we know not what is become of him. Exodus 32:2 And Aaron said unto them, Break off the golden earrings, which are in the ears of your wives, of your sons, and of your daughters, and bring them unto me. Exodus 32:3 And all the people brake off the golden earrings which were in their ears, and brought them unto Aaron. Exodus 32:4 And he received them at their hand, and fashioned it with a graving tool, after he had made it a molten calf: and they said, These be thy gods, O Israel, which brought thee up out of the land of Egypt. Exodus 32:5 And when Aaron saw it, he built an altar before it; and Aaron made proclamation, and said, To morrow is a feast to the LORD. Starjade concludes. So then this is a proven error that exists in the Koran. The Qur'an says that the calf worshipped by the Israelites at mount Horeb was molded by a Samaritan (sura 20:85-87, 95-97). It is interesting to notice that while Yusuf Ali attempts to change this word to "Samiri" and Pickthall to "As Samirii," Arberry in the English, and Kasimirski in the French both correctly translate it "Samaritan." Yusuf Ali, in his footnotes, "bends over backwards" to explain his choice by suggesting that the name could mean "Shemer," which denotes a stranger, or "Shomer," which means a watchman, the equivalent of "Samara" in Arabic, which he implies is close enough to the Samari he is looking for. Once again we find an awkward example of Ali attempting to twist the translation in order to get out of a difficult scenario, similar to the examples of "Periklytos," or the word "Machmad" which he uses to signify Muhammad in the Bible. The Arabic simply does not give Ali the leeway to concoct other meanings for this word. To be consistent with the Arabic he should keep his translation consistent with the text, as Arberry and Kasimirski have done. Starjade
concludes. So then this explanation shows the deception exists
only in the Koran and its writers. It was not any Samaritan who
forged the Golden Calf but Aaron the brother of Moses and when the anger
of Moses blazed he ground down that Golden Calf and forced them to eat
it.
Hence
biting the dust. As
I often say.
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Starjade
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3. In sura 18:86 it states, "Until, when he reached the setting of the sun, he found it set in a spring of murky water: Near it he found a people: We said: O Dhu al Qarnayn! Either punish them,or treat them with kindness." It is well known that only the superstitious in the age of Muhammad believed that the sun would set in a muddy spring. hafsa you said: Well known!! How? Starjade says: The superstitions of the people long ago is well known because superstitions carry on through Time. I thought you had plans to reply to this claim by Muhammad that the sun sets in a pool of muddy water. Allow me to expand these statements of the setting of the Sun in a pool of muddy water. The Qur�an says that one of the righteous men of God�s servants saw the sun set in a certain place of the earth�in particular a well full of water and mud. There, this man found some people. Let us read what is recorded in the Qur�an (chapter "the Cave", verse 86), "When he reached the setting place of the sun, he found it setting in a muddy spring and found a people thereabout. We said: �O Dhul-Qarneyn! Either punish or show them kindness"� (Surah 18:86). Muhammad�s friends inquired about the sunset and that he gave them that answer. All the scholars such as the Baydawi, Jalalan, and Zamakhshari confirm it. The Zamakhshari remarks in his book, "the Kash-shaf", "Abu Dharr (one of Muhammad�s close companions) was with Muhammad during the sunset. Muhammad asked him: �Do you know, O Abu Dharr where this sets?� He answered: �God and His apostle know better.� Muhammad said: �It sets in a spring of slimy water"� (3rd Edition, Volume 2 p. 743,1987). In his book, "The Lights of Revelation" (p. 399), the Baydawi indicates, "The sun sets in a slimy spring; that is, a well which contains mud. Some of the readers of the Qur�an read it, �...a hot spring�, thus the spring combines the two descriptions. It was said that Ibn �Abbas found Mu�awiya reading it (as) hot. He told him, �It is muddy.� Mu�awiya sent to Ka�b al-Ahbar and asked him, �Where does the sun set?� He said in water and mud and there were some people. So he agreed with the statement of ibn al-�Abbas. And there was a man who composed a few verses of poetry about the setting of the sun in the slimy spring."
The Jalalan (p. 251) says that the setting of the sun is in a well which contains a murky mud. The same interpretation and text is found in the Tabari�s commentaries (p. 339) as well as in "Concise Interpretation of the Tabari" (p. 19 of part 2) in which he remarks that the well in which the sun sets "contains lime and murky mud". These are the comments of the pillars of Islam and the intimate companions of Muhammad such as ibn Abbas and Aba Dharr. Also it is obvious from the Qur�an (chapter 36:38) that the sun ran then settled down. The verse says:"And the sun runs on into a resting place."
On page 585, the Baydawi says, "The sun runs in its course to a certain extent then it stops. It is similar to the passenger�s repose after he completes his journey" (refer also the book of al-Itqan by the Suyuti, p. 242). This is the story of the setting of the sun in the well and its course as a passenger!
Starjade concludes: So all Muslims think the Sun sets in a pool of muddy water or a well. Tsk tsk Tsk now that is not scientifically true is it. The sun does not set in a pool of muddy water. So then that is another error in the Koran established. End of that story.
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Starjade
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4. The name for Jesus in the Qur'an is given as "Issa." Yet this is incorrect. Issa is the Arabic equivalent of Esau, the name for the twin brother of Jacob. The correct Arabic name for Jesus would be Yesuwa, similar to the Hebrew Yeshuwa, yet the supposedly "all-knowing" Qur'an has no mention of it.
hafsa you said: It is just a twist of letters, which changes over time and place with different people�s pronunciation. With the entire bibles being revised over time and again this is understandable. We say Isa not Issa. Of course the Quraan did not change. And if it was so much �copied� from old or new Testaments, why make such obvious change. Why were they not safely followed?
Starjade says: I have challenged many Arabic speaking Muslims on this issue of what the Koran calls Jesus and they could give no explanation for it. In fact until I mentioned it they had not given the name any consideration. The correct Arabic name for Jesus would be Yesuwa, and any Arab speaker will tell you that very same thing because it is true. Yet look around you when you listen to Muslims. They always say Isa (and I can spell it anyway I want to.)( It still is not the name of the false prophet Jesus) I cannot give you an explanation as to why Muslims call Jesus Isa when they should be saying Yesuwa. Why not go see if your Imam knows that answer.
This errors still exists in the Koran. Mind you as few realize the Koran is not pure Arabic anyway and so this error of the name may not have come up then. But I am not one for speculating when I want to speak only of facts.
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Starjade
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5. In sura 7:124 we find Pharaoh admonishing his sorcerers because they believe in the superiority of Moses's power over theirs. Pharaoh threatens them with cutting off their hands and feet on opposite sides, and then says they will all die on the cross. In the Old Testament which is the source of this data of the Magicians the magicians were never threatened with death at all it only makes those claims in the Koran.
hafsa you said: Just a matter of relying on one of the two sources, Old Testement or the Qur�an. One altered over time, one is not.
Starjade says; It is a clear fact the Old Testament is the source of the story of the magicians throught the descendants of Isaac and not from the Koran which came along about 2000 years later and you will not find those magicians threatened with death or with the cutting off of the hands and feet on opposite sides and then being crucified which is an Islamic form of punishment in the Old Testament. Remind yourself that the Koran was written by an idolizer of Muhammad. There was no threat of death or of crucifixion in the Old Testament you can only find that error of that claim in the Koran
The Old Testament
regarding these magicians is the source of that data. It
was not the magicians fault and even the Pharaoh believed in the God
of Moses which is why he let those people go. |
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Starjade
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6. Meteors, and even stars are said to be missiles fired at eavesdropping Satans and jinn who seek to listen to the reading of the Qur'an in heaven, and then pass on what they hear to men in suras 37:6-10; 55:33-35; 67:5; & 72:6-9.
Can we believe indeed that Allah throws meteors, which are made up of carbon dioxide or iron-nickel, at non- material devils who steal a hearing at the heavenly council? And how do we explain the fact that many of earths meteors come in showers which consequently travel in parallel paths. Are we to thus understand that these parallel paths imply that the devils are all lined up in rows at the same moment?
hafsa you said: Allah probably orders this to be done rather than doing it Himself. Meteors made up of hot metal or fire can surely disturb the jinns composed of fire and even the wave pattern of communication. Whether they are lined up or not, can also not be rejected, for neither you nor I have seen them. However they are prevented in heavens not earth.
037.006 Lo! We have adorned the lowest heaven with an ornament, the
planets;
Starjade says: I remind you all at this Time that it can be proven by the law of Deuteronomy Ch 19 v 15 that I am indeed a Prophet who has come from the Living God in fact that specific Deuteronomy Ch 18 v 15/18 Prophet that the living God promised Moses he would raise up.
The living God lives beyond the Veil of the Abyss in deep space and is not throwing any meteors or stars in this direction. I am staggered to even find any man who would believe such a thing. Do you then say that God could not just raise a hand and wipe those Devils away. Already the Sura 4:82 states do they not consider the Koran with care for if it had come from any other than Allah then surely they would have found much discrepancy therein. You have been noting the errors in the Koran you have so far been unable to dispute. I have many more lists of errors that do exist in the Koran.
I
came from beyond the Grave and whiles Demons do exist they are grey
in astral colour and they do not hide around trying to hear heavenly
council they hang around the Abyss trying to kill off the living Gods
forces such as myself and others who traverse the vast distances of
the Abyss. They all live in a vast Grey Cloud that exists in a
region of the Abyss. So I am someone who is in a position to know
and to see Demons living or dead and this Jinn thing is pure fantasy
as much so as the Genie in the bottle. Do not forget the Sura 4:82 Challenge
states if any errors exist in the Koran then that is the proof that
the Koran does not come from God and the Koran is only made holy in
the eyes of idolizing Muslims. Already the many errors in the
Koran show that the Koran does not come from God and so do not get so
wrapped up in those writers imaginations. They just knew you could
not dispute their silly claim, but be under no doubt I can. The
Koran does not come from God it is man made and why would a material
book exist in the heavens. There is no Koran existing anyplace
other than here on earth. |
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Starjade
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7. King Solomon was taught the speech of birds (sura 27:16) and the speech of ants (sura 27:18-19). In his battles, he used birds extensively to drop clay bricks on Abrah's army (sura 105:3-4), and marched them in military parades (sura 27:17). He also used them to bring him messages of powerful queens (sura 27:20-27). Note: According to the historical record, Abrah's army was not defeated by bricks dropped on their head. Rather, they withdrew their attack on Mecca after smallpox broke out among the troops (Guillame, Islam, pgs.21ff).
hafsa you said: King Solomon (if you mean H Sulaiman p.b.u.h) did not attack Abraha�s army. If you have any sense of time Abraha came to attack Ka�aba near the time of Our Prophet�s birth (55 days before), then he got this fate. Birds containing clay bricks were sent by Allah.
Few other events like small pox and boils also erupted in the same year, but they were not the cause of Abraha�s defeat. You may read some more versions of history than a fake week & invalid one. It�s a very interesting story. But I guess the likes of you would feel bad by it.
Starjade says: Wishful thinking on your part. History has another view. They withdrew because they had small pox. Now me as a wonderful warring tactician I would have sent the infected on to infect the enemy. But they retreated because of smallpox. No birds were sent by Allah for the Allah of those Times was and is the pagan moon god Hubal al�ilah. Not the living God of Abraham. And what you think a pagan moon god has power to sent birds to collect bricks and drop them on people. Don�t you think that is a tad daft. Why did they not just rub the magic lamp and have the Genie woosh them away. You offer no argument but even verify that outbreak of smallpox.
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Starjade
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8. - In Sura 2:249 Muhammad confuses the persons of Saul (Talut) and Gideon. See: Judges 7:4-7
hafsa you said: Qur�an sent by Allah contains no confusions. You may be confused or trying to create confusions knowingly.
Starjade says; Well let us examine Judges 7:4 And the LORD said unto Gideon, The people are yet too many; bring them down unto the water, and I will try them for thee there: and it shall be, that of whom I say unto thee, This shall go with thee, the same shall go with thee; and of whomsoever I say unto thee, This shall not go with thee, the same shall not go.
Judges 7:5 So he brought down the people unto the water: and the LORD said unto Gideon, Every one that lappeth of the water with his tongue, as a dog lappeth, him shalt thou set by himself; likewise every one that boweth down upon his knees to drink. Judges 7:6 And the number of them that lapped, putting their hand to their mouth, were three hundred men: but all the rest of the people bowed down upon their knees to drink water.
Judges 7:7 And the LORD said unto Gideon, By the three hundred men that lapped will I save you, and deliver the Midianites into thine hand: and let all the other people go every man unto his place.
Starjade says; Now why not show us what it says in Sura 2:249 of the Koran then we have something to compare with. This way we can all Judge the matter. I do not see any mentions of Saul.
9. - In Sura 26:54 the Israelites were said to be "a scanty band" (small band); vastly inferior to the Egyptians. But in Exodus 1:7-10 the Egyptian king said to his people that the Israelites had become "more and mightier than we". Exodus 1:9 speaks of the Hebrews as multitudes.
hafsa you said: In this Aayat the first person is Firon (Pharoh) who was encouraging his party. Any way, this is again a question of reference to Qur�an, the Devine Book, or Exodus.
Starjade says: I remind you again of the Sura 4:82 states Do they not consider the Koran with care for if it had come from any other than Allah then surely they would have found much discrepancy therein. I have already proven the Koran does not come from God as the Koran contains staggering errors and discrepancies. So the Koran is not Divine as then the Koran shows deception then it is the Exodus that has validity.
Exodus 1:7 And the children of Israel were fruitful, and increased abundantly, and multiplied, and waxed exceeding mighty; and the land was filled with them. Exodus 1:8 Now there arose up a new king over Egypt, which knew not Joseph. Exodus 1:9 And he said unto his people, Behold, the people of the children of Israel are more and mightier than we: Exodus 1:10 Come on, let us deal wisely with them; lest they multiply, and it come to pass, that, when there falleth out any war, they join also unto our enemies, and fight against us, and so get them up out of the land.
And so why not show what the Sura 46/12 says so we have a comparison to see if what is said conflicts with the Exodus statements. Bearing in mind that the Sura 4:82 already proves the Koran did not come from God and the claims of Muhammad all come from the Old Testament giving that Old Testament validity anyways to every Muslims who believed in Muhammad. How can you say the Exodus is not valid when Muhammad used it for his claims and when the Koran contains re written Old and New Testament text to create the text Koran.
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Starjade
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10. - The Koran confused the sister of Moses by implication (Miriam) with Mary, the mother of Jesus 3 times. These two women actually lived about 1500 years apart. The entire Chapter 19 is devoted to Mary (Maryam) the mother of Jesus in the Qur'an. Sura 19:28, "O sister of Aaron! Thy father was not a man of evil, nor thy mother a woman unchaste!" Sura 66.12 calls Mary 'daughter of lmran". lmran is the Arabic form of the Hebrew Amram mentioned in Numbers 26.59 as the father of "Aaron, Moses and Miriam." The title "sister of Aaron" is given to Miriam in Exodus 15.20. Sura 3.35-36, The wife of Amram said, "My Lord, I have dedicated (the baby) in my belly to You, totally, so accept from me. You are Hearer, Omniscient."
hafsa you said: Maryam was the mother of Prophet Isa pbuh all right. However, it is clear to muslims that in Sura 19:28, "O sister of Aaron..�does not indicate that she was directly a sister of Haroon pbuh who was at Musa�s (pbuh) time. People were referring to the family she belonged, family (generation) of Prophet Haroon pbuh, for his chastity. That is why the further reference is towards her parents. A slightly weaker but yet reasonable argument is there was another pious person Haroon in her family during her era whose worship was comparable to her; he is called her brother.
The confusion occurs not in Quran but continuously switching languages and taking a Book written after centuries as reference.
Starjade says: Well Now why Muslims call Jesus Isa when they should be saying Yesuwa is beyond understanding you see for yourself you propagate that error. Exodus 15:20 And Miriam the prophetess, the sister of Aaron, took a timbrel in her hand; and all the women went out after her with timbrels and with dances.
Numbers 26:59 And the name of Amram's wife was Jochebed, the daughter of Levi, whom her mother bare to Levi in Egypt: and she bare unto Amram Aaron and Moses, and Miriam their sister.
Clearly there is a discrepancy here for Mary was claimed to be the mother of Jesus and she was not born at these Times. I could accept the errors in words after translations into different languages but it is clear that the daughter of Amrams wife is the mother of Miriam and not of Mary. They did live some 1500 years apart and are not the same person. It is clearly said though in Sura 19:28, "O sister of Aaron! Thy father was not a man of evil, nor thy mother a woman unchaste!" Sura 66.12 calls Mary 'daughter of lmran". lmran is the Arabic form of the Hebrew Amram mentioned in Numbers 26.59 as the father of "Aaron, Moses and Miriam.
This does indicate a discrepancy and error in the Koran no matter what translations take place. Clearly when this data was copied from the Old and New Testaments the writer and researcher was the one who has made the translation error. Your explanation does look bleak.
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Starjade
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11. - How many angels were talking to Mary? When the Qur'an speaks about the annunciation of the birth of Jesus to the virgin Mary, Sura 3:42,45 speaks about angels (plural) while it is only one in Sura 19:17-21. The Christian Bible clearly indicated one angel; "In the sixth month, the angel Gabriel was sent by God to a town in Galilee called Nazareth," Luke 1:26
hafsa you said: �In the sixth month, the angel Gabriel was sent by God� does not mean 1. this was the only time angels spoke to her. 2. that there are no angels of mercy, or Kiraam ul Katibeen (angels who are on our shoulders to write each good and bad that we do) or other angels who descend where God�s (Allah�s) name is being taken. Infact we believe that angels spoke to her about it slightly earlier and then when she had reconciled with it, did Angel Gibrael went to her and cast the spirit of Hazrat Isa (Jesus) pbuh. Not as late as �sixth month� was she kept unaware.
Starjade says: First may I apologies for getting the Chapter and verse incorrect it should be Luke 1:26. onwards.
There again I see that name isa for Jesus when in fact the Arabic word should be Yesuwa. Luke 1:26 And in the sixth month the angel Gabriel was sent from God unto a city of Galilee, named Nazareth, Luke 1:27 To a virgin espoused to a man whose name was Joseph, of the house of David; and the virgin's name was Mary.
Starjade says: Firstly the Christian tale is that it was the famed Angel Gabriel who appeared to Mary to speak of the birth of Jesus who in later life was depicted as an adult stating that he was that long awaited Deuteronomy Ch 18 v 15/18 Prophet that the living God promised Moses he would raise up.
Jesus said in John Chapter 5 Verse 46: for had ye believed Moses, ye would have believed me, for he wrote of me. Verse 47: But if ye believe not his writings, how shall ye believe my words. Starjades second point: Take note of what I say here for it is intriguing. Mathew and Luke are the only ones who mention the birth of Jesus. Luke is the only one who mentions the appearance of the Angel Gabriel by name and that is the first Time in Biblical text that Gabriel is referred to as being an Angel. Gabriel originated in a Dream that Daniel had whiles in a deep sleep and he dreamed of a man who called another man by the name of Gabriel. Daniel described a man not an Angel only Luke claims Gabriel was an Angel. There is no such thing as an Angel called Gabriel at all. It was fabricated by the writers of the New Testament to promote the false Prophet Jesus.
Daniel 8:15 And it came to pass, when I, even I Daniel, had seen the vision, and sought for the meaning, then, behold, there stood before me as the appearance of a man. Daniel 8:16 And I heard a man's voice between the banks of Ulai, which called, and said, Gabriel, make this man to understand the vision. Daniel 8:17 So he came near where I stood: and when he came, I was afraid, and fell upon my face: but he said unto me, Understand, O son of man: for at the time of the end shall be the vision. Daniel 8:18 Now as he was speaking with me, I was in a deep sleep on my face toward the ground: but he touched me, and set me upright. Daniel 8:19 And he said, Behold, I will make thee know what shall be in the last end of the indignation: for at the time appointed the end shall be.
Starjade says: Now this is where Gabriel originated from. A dream that Daniel had whiles in a deep sleep. And Daniel described a man not any angel.
Starjade says: Mathew did not name Gabriel but spoke of the Angel of the Lord.
Matthew 1:18 Now the birth of Jesus Christ was on this wise: When as his mother Mary was espoused to Joseph, before they came together, she was found with child of the Holy Ghost. Matthew 1:21 And she shall bring forth a son, and thou shalt call his name JESUS: for he shall save his people from their sins. Matthew 1:22 Now all this was done, that it might be fulfilled which was spoken of the Lord by the prophet, saying, Matthew 1:23 Behold, a virgin shall be with child, and shall bring forth a son, and they shall call his name Emmanuel, which being interpreted is, God with us.
Starjade says; Mathew admits he wrote his statement so it might be believed to be the fulfillment of the Prophecy made by Isaiah regarding a virgin birth. Of course Jesus is not called Emmanuel,
This was all said to promote Jesus as being the Deuteronomy Ch 18 v15/18 Prophet that God promised Moses he would raise up. A statement that Deuteronomy law proves is not true.
Starjade�s Revelations say: To all Christians Muslims and Jews. You are the most religiously ignorant people I have ever met. You speak as if you are religious and yet every one of you ignores the actual word of the Living God and I quote.
Deuteronomy Chapter 19 verse 15. One witness shall not rise up against a man for any iniquity or for any sin, in any sin that he sinneth: At the mouth of two witnesses, or at the mouth of three witnesses, shall the matter be established. This is a witness law that is determines matters of the truth especially about statements that could be deemed as being blasphemous or sinful. It is not a matter for your own personal opinion. Even if nobody wanted to believe the evidence that is presented. If that law is fulfilled, then legally it is binding and should stand good according to religious law.
Starjade says: These are laws brought down by Moses from the Living God himself and so then they are the actual words of the living God.
Starjade says; If anyone accuses Jesus and Muhammad of Blasphemy then they would be found guilty of that crime of iniquity and sin because they do not have any witnesses to back up their claims and I just dare you all to try and produce witnesses for I am the expert in that field of knowledge not any of you or your religious leaders.
Starjade says; Now hearken to my words for they are a Revelation to you.
In the first instance Mathew and Luke were not present at the birth of Jesus and so they are not then witnesses giving actual witness Testimonies. Their Testimonies written in by the New Testament writers are hearsay statements and not acceptable by the law of Deuteronomy Ch 19 v 15 which requires actual witness testimonies. Do not pretend that nobody knew the law of Deuteronomy Ch 19 v 15. It is in open view in Deuteronomy and those new Testament writers often used Jesus to depict those very laws.
Such as Galatians Chapter 13 verse 1: This is the third time I am coming to you, at the mouth of two witnesses or of the three, every matter must be established. John Chapter 5 verse 31: If I alone bear witness to myself, my witness is not true. Also in John Chapter 8 verse 17: Jesus said to the Jews. Also in your own law it is written, the witness of two men is true.
Verse 18: he continues to say: I am the one who bears witness about myself and the father who sent me bears witness about me.
The disciples of Jesus had already claimed using the Angel Gabriel that Jesus was the Son of the living God and Jesus was naming God as being his other witness. However as God could not be produced to give any Testimony for Jesus, then it was only his own Testimony. His own Testimony is not acceptable by religious law and is not true.
These very are serious flaws in the claims made by the writers of the New Testament. John Chapter 5 verse 31. If I alone bear witness to myself, my witness is not true. These statements were all referencing the law of Deuteronomy Chapter 19 verse 15. You need to have two or three witnesses to prove a thing is true. That is Old Testament law. Jesus has no witnesses.
And do not feel self righteous or clever for Muhammad has no witnesses either.
Starjade the much loved Doomsday Prophet does have more than four witnesses to his claims though which is why I brought that specific law to the Jews.
There was no angel Gabriel in the first place. Luke stole that idea from Daniel so he could fabricated the tales of Jesus and John the Baptist who the writers of the Old testament were going to use as main Characters of their stories.
And 11 Chapters of the Koran glorify Jesus as being a Prophet from God when the laws of Deuteronomy Ch 19 v 15 state otherwise which means the Koran is standing against the actual words of the living God in 11 Chapters of that Koran which I also name as being errors in the Koran.
And Muhammad believed in Jesus that is why 11 Chapters of the Koran narrate the fictitious tales of Jesus. And Muhammad claims he also had a visitation by this same Angel Gabriel which was fabricated by Luke to promote Jesus as being the Deuteronomy Prophet that Muhammad was also claiming himself as being and I name that also as being an error in the Koran and in the beliefs of Muhammad. Gabriel originated in a Dream by Daniel and Daniel described a man not any angel so be sure the Koran and the New Testament is seriously flawed. Especially so when they promote Jesus as being a Prophet from God when the Deuteronomy laws brought down from the living God state that he was not.
So the Koran is most flawed with serious errors that no Muslim or Christian can defend.
And how stupid of the Jews, who are bound by those Deuteronomy laws not to consider the facts of their own Deuteronomy laws, as brought down by Moses himself. My I expel my utter contempt for all of your religious ignorance to which you have no excuses at all. And you all have the Gall to speak about fabricated Angels of mans own invention. That is Blasphemy.
So then once again many serious errors and discrepancies are easily found in the Koran. Be sure I take great passion with good reasons in pointing them out. And you Muslims have yet to account for those 11 Chapters of the Koran glorifying Jesus as being the Prophet that Jesus has claimed himself to being. Because Jesus claimed that he was that Deuteronomy Ch 18 v 15/18 Prophet that God promised Moses he would raise up. Why are those 11 Chapters errors found in the Koran.?
(cough) Erm which Prophet of Deuteronomy was it that Muhammad has proclaimed himself as being ?
Oh yes Muhammad who believed in Jesus proclaimed himself and said that he alone was that Deuteronomy Ch 18 v 15/18 Prophet didn�t he.
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Starjade
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12. - Jesus taught people even in his "old age". (Sura 5:110). Actually Jesus is claimed to have ascended into Heaven while in His early 30's. hafsa you said: 005.110 When Allah saith: O Jesus, son of Mary! Remember My favour unto thee and unto thy mother; how I strengthened thee with the holy Spirit, so that thou spakest unto mankind in the cradle as in maturity; and how I taught thee the Scripture and Wisdom and the Torah and the Gospel; �
hafsa you said: At what age does a child get mature?
Starjade says: Why not ask Muhammads wife Aaisha she was 6 yrs old when he married her. No child gets mature for they are children and need protection not abuse. A Child does not begin to mature until they start reaching their old age.
I
agree however this error in the Koran is not conclusive and so I withdraw
it.
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