hafsa  

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Joined: 22 February 2006
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1.    Starjade says:  Muhammad�s followers committed the text of the Koran to memory, and then as instructed by Muhammad, they put them into writings onto bits of wood and skins and anything at hand.  Muhammad died in 632.  After the battle of Al Yamamah in 633 Umar inb al Khattab, who later became the second Caliph, he said to the first Caliph Abu Bakir, that because of the loss in that battle they were in danger of losing Muhammad�s proclamations as they were mainly enshrined in their memories.  Aby Bakr recognised the danger and entrusted the task of writing out the Koran to Zayd ibn Thabit, who was the chief scribe that Muhammad had frequently dictated to during his lifetime.  A final authorized text was prepared and completed in 651 during the Time of Uthman the third Caliph.

Now explain where Allah did this writing of the Koran.  I have named those authors.  Yet as I have pointed out there are still in existence different Korans.  Yet all books are written by men not by gods of mans imaginations.

Bismillah ir Rahman ir Raheem Ans:

Allah is All Powerful. He sent Wahi (revelations) upon the Prophet Mohammad�s (Sal Allaho Alehey Wassalam) heart through the highest angel Gibrael. It so happened that he used to try to repeat those words with his mouth feeling his responsibility to safely reproduce them. Just then, once a wahi came telling him(in Sura 78 Ayah numbers 16-17):

�O Prophet don�t move your tongue hurriedly to memorize it (Quran). To store it safely and reproduce it is unto Us��

 and in Sura 15 Ayah no. 9:

so as such, we are very confident of Quran being the word of God. Now you yourself have explained how it was materialized through Sahaba further. Do you know that it was a general rule that there had to be at least two witnesses of each Ayah to be written down, who had heard it from the Prophet�s (Sal Allaho Alehey Wassalam) mouth directly.

And there is a difference between a publisher and an author, of course.

2.    Starjade says:  Allah is the pagan moon god Hubal al�ilah which is not the living God of Moses. (Allegation Dismissed, check the names and concept of Allah through Quran.) I do not say these things the Old Testament does.  I came from the future not the past. (well, its not believable!)  I was not around when these events are said to have taken place.  It was Moses who ground down the Golden Calf and forced them to eat it dust.  In my younger days I faced a great deal of Starvation and I was literally eating nothing but water for many weeks at a Time.  I did not just drink that water but was eating it as food.  Unless you have been in such a position of starvation you just could never understand that you eat water not drink it. (what does it refer to, that a blessed gold powder was indeed a special gift)   The many errors in the Koran already establish that the Koran is in error with its claims as stated in the Sura 4:82 challenge. 

3.   -Hafsa you said;  {Of course the sun doesn�t sink in a quagmire, as you are trying to imply.

Starjade says:  Now hold that Camel a minute.  So now you agree the claim of Muhammad�s is an error.  I did not imply anything.  I repeated the statements made by Muhammad and disputed them as being not true.

Interestingly you avoided the Ayah in the Quran in your quote, and just quoted your own words.  

It only meant that sun set on that side, as dusk APPEARS.

4.   you won�t admit for example how accurately mentioned is that the sun�s orbit is separated from the moon�s;

Starjade says:  Now hold that Camel a minute.  I was not talking about the Suns orbit being separated from the moon.  Any fool looking up at the night�s sky would see that obvious conclusion.   

Starjade says:  Well something that hot is bound to not stand still and being in a desert one sees the sun in varying degrees and so it is not such an impossible thing to notice.  And why is it Muslims always have to use that Islamic brag just recently discovered.  That is a far fetched claim.  People have landed on the moon you know.. 

  I referred to the ayah  in Sura Rahman which tells that all planets float in their own orbits and to another ayah in Sura Kahaf which tells that sun cannot catch the moon nor moon can catch the sun, as they both rotate in their own orbits.

Yes till a couple of decades ago, it was believed in science that sun does not rotate.

And do not forget in the days Muhammad gave worship to the pagan moon god Hubal al�ilah with his family they believed the Sun was married to the moon.

Give evidence which says so.

5.   Starjade says:  Should I bring you links to Star charts from civilizations existing long before Muhammad and the Koran.  Chariots of the Gods pal.  Your glorifications of a book do not make that book a book that came from God as it is claimed.  The Sura 4:82 admits the Koran does not come from God along with those many errors found in the Koran.?  That is the truth we are speaking about here as well as the claims of Muhammad and of another false Prophet called Jesus.  You can worship a stone if you choose it will not bother me.  But to claim that stone is God well then I am going to tap you on your shoulder and explain why that cannot be.  And I came from the world hereafter have you not read of my Journey beyond the grave

there is much more and a lot more impressive of what we as muslims already know about the life hereafter. It is going to be eternal and after we are raised up.

 What you experienced, as you say, is what many others have also experienced. You may have read a book my some man named �(something) Moody� in 70�s who recorded the statements of all such people. Their account was somewhat similar to each other. You should check what exactly that was, rather than insisting you�re a prophet. The white sphere you talk about could probably been your Rooh. You are sent back to life, treasure it and come to good deeds.)

Hafsa you said:   { If he says it, it has to be only right. And what he talked about in that hadees was about when a person wakes up from sleep and has to wash his nose again thrice for wodoo, as devil sits on his nose during sleep. That form of devil is of course beyond comprehension of science.}

Starjade says:  You do know Muhammad climbed up the Mountain because he said he had gone mad.  So then you admit you believe Muhammad was telling the truth then don�t you.  And that a Devil lives up your nose.?  (cough splutter)  scuse me a minute you have caused me to laugh so much my nose goo is splattering out across the computer screen.

No I don�t know what you�re talking about.

Can you show two or three witnesses to Muhammad being in Hades (whats that)then.?  Or was it also true that was of course all just Muhammad�s say so with no other witnesses to verify the event ever took place.  The doctors I have spoken with who were Islamic doctors by the way were not so convinced that any Devil lives up a Muslims nose or even upon it. 

 But I will certainly believe in him more than any man in the world, InshaAllah. What are doctors to know about the immaterial world. Haven�t those doctors told YOU anything.

Muhammad said it lives up the noses of Muslims.  That is why muslims snort up water to flush out that Devil.  A Devil that has not ever been seen.  So then it is not scientifically sound is it. ?  Human anatomy is well mapped out down now to the DNA code.  Where is the mention of DNA in the Koran then. ? Did this invention of this Devil up your nose lead to those English tales of the bogie man.  Eeeek.

 The point is the Koran is not as scientifically sound as you claimed. 

First of  all, why do always say devil lives up a muslim�s nose, so many inaccuracies in your quoting and that too deliberate.  Satan and his community is very large. They have their own agendas on which they work with collaboration. Satan is said to have been sitting on a person�s nose while he�s sleeping, so muslims are supposed to cleanse their nose when they wake up. The reason that I can make out (since you insist) would but just a theory of my imagination. So it could be that since in dirt if an associate of Satan in some form controls or disturbs the breath while sleeping, the piety may be affected. Hence the source may have to be cleaned. However  I trust the divine wisdom for a superior reasoning than mine, without question. 

7.   You can believe that a stone is God but that does not make your belief true.  Even if you were surrounded by a zillion Cavemen.  There is no Devil up your nose.  That is just plain daft.  I am certain Muhammad had a wicked sense of humour when he said such a thing. 

You also say there are no angels, so if you say there is no satan nor his partners, you�re not too good to believe. And Mohammad (Sal Allaho Alehe Wassallam) had a very gentle and decent sense of humor for a fact. Also he did not and insisted that we should not tell lies even while joking.

8.      

Hafsa you said:  {I believe it to be possible for God. Everything is possible for Him. Science does not restrict Him. He bars science for miracles.}  

Starjade says:  So why did God not smite those fishing people down or turn them into fish if god was so ticked off at them.  And where are the witnesses Testimonies of this event.  Isnt it once again some writer making claims of what Muhammad has said. 

It was Allah�s prerogative to punish them the way he liked. As for witnesses, those who did not do it and those who did not do it and additionally stopped the culprits, they were the witnesses I suppose, as they found those people suddenly missing.

9.     Starjade says:  That establishes Muhammad as being a self appointed Prophet who has no proof for his claims whiles plenty of proof does exist to dispute those claims that he has made.  So look real hard and more closer and try and understand that I do not comprehend idol worshipping.  Those things you make as your idols are not my idols.  In my eyes idol worship is a form of blasphemy.  It is in the eyes of the living God as well.

I consider your followers to be idol worshipping, and truly astray.

10.    Starjade says:  I shall not be believing that Muhammad is the Deuteronomy Ch 18 verse 15/18 Prophet for a fact.  Deuteronomy Ch 19 v 15 is a law brought down by Moses from the living God and is therefore considered to be the actual word of the living God.  That law can and does establish that Only I could be the long awaited Prophet that God promised Moses he would raise up. 

A real Prophet doesn�t say he could be a certain prophet due to this and that argument. He is exactly and precisely told about everything.

11.   I already know all the false pretenders to my Throne have no evidence to back their claims up and that is why I am the Challenger and all those who come against me are just bound to bite the Dust. 

A real Prophet does not contest for a throne, he is sure of the guidance he gets from God that he has to transmit.

12.                   Starjade says:  I will one day find out all the other non Arabic words existing in the Koran.  The fact is the Koran is not pure Arabic as Muslims claimed and oft believed.  It is used as Islamic propaganda.  Yet there are many foreign words in the Koran.  So the Koran is clearly not pure Arabic.  That is a known fact.

Keep up with your efforts, in a hope that one day you�ll be able to be a better lawyer. You�ll still not turn into a prophet though. 

13.   Starjade says:  Clearly the scholar who studied all these foreign words in the Koran. Arthur Jeffrey, in his book Foreign Vocabulary of the Koran, he has gathered some 300 pages dealing with foreign words in the Qur�an,  I really must get a list of them.  But it is not important.

So you�re serious that if words in Quraan are also in languages other Arabic, then they are fake. I think it advocates only that Allah had sent other Prophets on other regions who spoke those words. It also suggests that these words describe the message more accurately than their alternatives.

{certainly not, Jinns  are separate species while Ruh means soul}

Starjade says:  Oh well then. As a matter of fact I have downloaded some data on the jinns that Muslims believe in.  So I shall be looking this up.  Are they related to Genie in the Magik lamp.?

That is a fiction story.

15.                   Starjade says:  Allah is still the pagan moon god Hubal al�ilah. The living God of Abraham did not send the Koran. ( Allah according to Islam is the same as the one and only God who sent other true Prophets like Ibrahim, Moses, Isa and Mohammad (pbut) 

16.                   There is only one Lord King of the apocalyptic Castle and that is the much loved Deuteronomy Doomsday prophet Starjade. 

( we think otherwise. You are highly mislead and misleading. What you call your revelations are what Satan has put in your mind.)           

17.   Starjade says:  The Romans used Crucifixions as a capital punishments so when they wrote their tales of Jesus they stole the Old Testament passages to invent that tale but used their own form of capital punishments instead of using the Old Testament where it says that those guilty of Blasphemy must be stoned to death.  So their capital punishments of their Times expose exactly who it is who is writing that fabricated story.

Similar the cutting off of the hands and feet on opposite sides is an Islamic form of punishment and it was  Zayd ibn Thabit, who was the chief scribe that Muhammad had frequently dictated to during his lifetime who wrote out the finalized text which by the way other muslims dispute still to this very day.  So when they fabricated their tales they used Islamic punishments as a substitute showing it is a Muslim who wrote those tales.

 I told you:All nations were sent with some prophets till one time who brought for them the religion of the only one God. It kept on changing with time however. So an ancient punishment that exists in old scriptures must be related to each other.As an evidence that this punishment existed in Moses times I told you: Hinduism is even older and even in their old scripture this punishment is mentioned (refer their Vishnusutra Ch.5,verse 49).

Had you some faith, you�d realize/admit that only you are fabricating all sorts of stories using texts from all places. There is no dispute in the Quranic text and I know it as I�m close to all sects. I guess your last strategy is to devide and rule!

18.   Starjade says:  Any man who claims that they are God is a liar and a fraud and should be arrested for blasphemy and put to death.  Any man who claims another man is God is also guilty of Blasphemy.  The living God is Spherical in shape and white in colour and the living white Sphere lives beyond the Veil of the Abyss in deep space.  You would have to die to have such an encounter with the living God.

All colors and shapes limit a being. Allah is limitless. Every place limits a being, Allah is everywhere. 

19.                   Hafsa you say:  As put by another author:

The Qur�an gives an additional piece of information in Surah Yunus chapter 10 verse 92:

"This day shall We save thee in thy body, that thou mayest be a sign to those who come after thee! But verily, many among mankind are heedless of Our Signs!"
[Al-Qur�an 10:92]

Dr. Maurice Bucaille, after a thorough research proved that although Rameses II was known to have persecuted the Israelites as per the Bible, he actually died while Moses (pbuh) was taking refuge in Median. Rameses II�s son Merneptah who succeeded him as Pharaoh drowned during the exodus. In 1898, the mummified body of Merneptah was found in the valley of Kings in Egypt. In 1975, Dr. Maurice Bucaille with other doctors received permission to examine the Mummy of Merneptah, the findings of which proved that Merneptah probably died from drowning or a violent shock which immediately preceeded the moment of drowning. Thus the Qur�anic verse that we shall save his body as a sign, has been fulfilled by the Pharaohs� body being kept at the Royal Mummies room in the Egyptian Museum in Cairo.

Starjade says:  That is interesting data I shall have to investigate when I have the free Time. Thutmoses 1 /Amenhotep 1 was the Pharoah who persecuted the Hebrews.  Thutmose his son by a concubine and half brother to Nefure had to be married to her when Moses killed the Egyptian and fled Egypt.  He became called Thutmose the 11   a Title that used to belong to Moses.  The Ramesese is just another Title of Pharaoh.  However, as far as I know.  The body of the Pharaoh was not found or recovered.  It does claim that it was in the Koran.  Yet the tale says they all went into the sea after Moses and so who was left behind.  I take those tales of those events with a pinch of salt. 

Now I am a seeing is believing kind of a man.  If they had the body of that Pharaoh then they would have entombed it.  So they would have no mummified remains to examine for drowning and they would know exactly where they went into the Sea.  So then they should have records and I would say lets go dig it up and look for that armies remains.  Now that is archeology in the raw.  Knowing of something and going searching for that evidence. 

If you go and see like Dr. Maurice Bucaille did, you shall have to embrace Islam were you not astray.

20.  Hafsa you said;The day-to-day life of the Prophet was an open book for all to see. In fact a revelation came asking people to give the Prophet (pbuh) privacy in his own home. If the Prophet had been meeting people who told him what to say as a revelation from God, this would not have been hidden for very long.

The most Logical Starjade says: I would like to have had Muhammad come and face me.  I would have converted him using his own Islamic laws.

You are so sinfully disrespectful. You�ll know and we�ll see where you end up in hell. Allah will tell you about the laws.

21.So then this first verse (u mean your saying is a verse??) is not any evidence of how Muhammad came to know so much about the Old and New Testaments is it.?  Ole Waraqa bin Nawful bin Asad al-uzza was a Christian believer and it is clear that Christianity had spread across the Middle East.  Right into Muhammad�s own household. 

You must be aware that Warqa, used to live with his niece Khadija (R.A) converted to Christianity from paganism before she married Mohammad (s.a.w) or he was given the title of prophethood from Allah, the living God. And that he knew the signs of a prophet who was expected in Arabia and immediately recognized him!

But, you might not be aware that Warqa died soon after.

22.        One witness shall not rise up against a man for any iniquity or for any sin, in any sin that he sinneth:  At the mouth of two witnesses, or at the mouth of three witnesses, shall the matter be established. (so who has sinned) This is a witness law that determines matters of the truth especially about statements that could be deemed as being blasphemous or sinful

They determine that if anyone commits a crime, then there must be more than one witnesses. It still does not mean that if someone alleges a truthful person (God�s true Prophets), he alone can be the judge, as you are trying to be.

 It is not a matter for your own personal opinion.

 Its actually a matter of your personal wishes.

 Even if nobody wanted to believe the evidence that is presented.

 yes, even if your evidence is week.

 If tthat law is fulfilled, then legally it is binding and should stand good according to religious law.

So then if anyone of any Time period accuses Muhammad of the crime of blasphemy because of his claims then that is a crime of iniquity and sin and he could be arrested and charged with that crime.  Upon investigations by religious law it would easily be determined from the claims of Muhammad that he has absolutely no witnesses to back up his claims in fact the Sura 4:82 of the Koran disputes those claims of Muhammad including Muhammad�s belief in Jesus and the 11 Chapters of the Koran glorifying Jesus as being the Prophet that Jesus has claimed himself as being.  (by the new Testament writers of course)

(Someone who claims to be an alien can still not be

an examiner, a witness,  a lawyer, a beneficiary as well as a judge!!!)

23.Take a closer look at my challenge to islam under Islamic law and the Sura 4:82 challenge.  I am just one man who has staggering religiously superior knowledge.  I challenged Islam after being goaded by Muslims.  They invited me to speak on their Islamic forum where they had over 1000 Muslims waiting to defend the Koran from my God given Revelation.  That very day Islam and the Koran and all the claims of Muhammad bit the Dust.  Over 1000 muslims could not defend the claims of Muhammad from my Revelations and they then shirked away and by deceptions.  That made my anger blaze�.

Whatever is happening to you is because of your unusual stubbornness of taking a real offence with the real Allah, and accusing His real Prophets. Wait to see your real blaze in hell.

24.Now Muhammad may not be around anymore but his followers are.  In a closed Islamic world idolatry is rife and under the threats of follow or die that is how Islam expanded.

 noone can ever stay in a religion even if it is  assumed that any religion is thrown upon him for saving his life. He would never transmit it to his next generations alongwith the devotion (as we muslims have) that you like to call idolatry.    

25.But now you are entering into the rest of the world where we have a thing called religious education and not just in one religion but in all the worlds religions.

 we are only the successors of the true religions, so not only we are taught about our relevant background, but the enhanced knowledge with ultimate accuracy is given to us Al-Hamdolillah.

  And Islam and the claims of Muhammad have clearly bitten the dust.

 (You wish)

26.Try and reply on Muhammad�s belief in Jesus for instance.  And on how 11 Chapters of the Koran glorify jesus as being the Prophet that Jesus has proclaimed himself as being (through Roman Christian writers of course)  Then you will see your religion of Islam fall to pieces.  Especially with those very claims of Muhammad and who Muhammad proclaimed himself to being. 

27.                   Hafsa you said:   The enemies of the Prophet kept a close watch on him in order to find proof for their claim that he was a liar - they could not point out even a single instance when the Prophet may have had a secret rendezvous with particular Jews and Christians.

The most Logical Starjade says:  well then they did not look very hard did they.  I only have to point out Deuteronomy Ch 19 v 15 law and demand witness evidence and the Sura 4:82 of the Koran and point out many errors and discrepancies that exist in the Koran and ask you to speak on the beliefs of Jesus and how 11 Chapters of the Koran glorify Jesus.  When Jesus claimed he was that Deuteronomy Ch 18 v 15/18 Prophet that god promised Moses he would raise up. 

28.                   Hafsa you ask.  {What�s your real name if you�re not a novice? And what was the faith of your parents if you are neither a Christian nor a Jew?

Starjade says:  Well now you are encroaching into personal business that is none of yours.  My name is Starjade the Deuteronomy Doomsday prophet.  That is all you need to know.  It is clear that I am not a novice and the living God gave birth to me and I am an Alien resident.  So if you want to know what religion the living God has then I cannot reply an answer as the living God is God and does not give worship to any false Gods. 

You want me to answer to you who in my opinion was the Prophet referred to in old Testament. To get this from me, you�ll have to answer me about yourself honestly and completely.

1.    what was the faith of each of your parents? It is important.

When you died, as you say in your website, you were on a bench. After 15 years, when you re-entered your body, you did so on that very bench.

2.    where was your family and was there no one in the park to put your body in the grave?

You talked about your two daughters.

3.    are they your legitimate children, because if so, under which religion did you get married?

You said you don�t believe in angels right?,

4.    so then when you say you died, did no angels come to you, to take you to God? Then under which scientific law were you flying?

Starjade says:  Hardly wishful think when I am here Challenging Islam with these facts and you all are afraid to reply.  When are your chicken legged Imams daring to come online then?  Let me see you dare a reply about Jesus and the 11 Chapters of the Koran glorifying Jesus then if you are so confident.  Of course you are conveniently ignoring those many errors that exist in the Koran that are starin

Each and every allegation is addressed. Now what�s left.

ezkl9four  you said:  It says the Pharaoh threatened to nail these people to "palm trees". That's what grows in Egypt. I believe the account is correct.

Starjade says:  The Old Testament written many thousands of years before the Koran says those magicians were not threatened at all.  It only claims they were threatened with death in the Koran.  Later in the Koran by the way they are not crucified.  In fact the magicians are cut into pieces and their body parts were scattered about the market place. (fabrication is visible)

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Starjade  

Senior Member



Joined: 28 February 2006
Location: United Kingdom
Online Status: Online
Religion: None
Posts: 392

Kayyam you said:  Yes they do. There are 3 links. They all come from Wyatt. Two of them are from wyattnewsletters.com and the third is just a copy of a wyatt article - with sections of it being exactly the same as the other two. You are not very discerning.

Starjade says:  ooops sorry you are right I must have posted the wrong urls. 

Kayyam you said:  No he was not an archeologist, he was a crackpot who went on quixotic fake expeditions for Biblical relics. No reputed architect in the world supports him.

Starjade says:  I still have yet to see you show these other so called archaeologists condemning his work.  Clearly he is an archaeologist.  Whiles the links you gave were of non-archaeologists who were just writing essays and were not Experts on Egyptian history? His data is staggering so he knows the topic of his conversations.  Of course as they dispute your won then you are bound to conflict with his findings.  I can provide other links to others who studied Egyptian history in fact as I recall I did do but you ignored them.

Kayyam you said:  I am less than staggered by the amount of data you have presented here - just the rantings of one crackpot evangelical architect. Put up or shut up.

Starjade says:  I have put it up and it is you who shut up.  You are a shirking.  Do not speak to me on things you do not know anything about.

Kayyam you said:  Oh then pray tell me your source.

Starjade says;  The amount of data I have already given on just these web site would be an insignificant amount of data compared to the entire Egyptian history of Nefure Hatshepsut that exists on the Internet.  So you will be praying for a long Time if you think I am going to list all the data sources of Egyptian history that I have been researching. The source of that data of course is religious and Egyptian history.  You see it is not all in Egyptian history but also in Biblical text.  Too much to mention.  Why can you not research Egyptian history to that sort of depth.  Your own links did not come up smelling of Roses.  You claimed Matkar was the mother of Nefure hatshepsut when in fact she was the daughter of her own husband as well as being Nefure.  So you have been researching the Jumbleine.

Kayyam you said;  No you haven't. Everything you have given is from one source - Wyatt. I have given you 5 sources, including the BBC and Wikipedia.

 Starjade says;  Oh yes I did try page 42:    Kayyam you are getting to despair in most desperations. That is what swimming in denial can do for you.  I did do a lot of research on Nefure Hatshepsut looking at almost every statement and conjectures made about her.  It is you who is in error.  I can give you a list on links to that subject but instead I shall leave this link, which can show you many more.  Do note they speak of the Pharaoh Nefure  Hatshepsut wont you.  So once again the much-loved Doomsday Prophet Starjade is right yet again.  As per usual. This was that Link of many I was speaking about.   http://www.google.co.uk/search?hl=en&sa=X&oi=spell&a mp;a mp;a mp;resnum=0&ct=result&cd=1&q=the+pharaoh+nefure+ hatshepsut&spell=1 

Kayyam you say:  Lets get the most basic of facts squared away before moving on to Moses. Those sources did not discuss Moses because there are no contemporary accounts of him whatsoever - sorry the Bible was written centuries later.

Starjade says:  That is a feeble excuse if ever I heard one.  So they speak of The Pharaoh Ahmosis who was the main ruler of Egypt and they speak of Thutmoses 1 /Amenhotep 1.  who would only be the main ruling Pharaoh after the death of the Pharaoh Ahmosis.  And they spoke of his daughter Nefure who was the only surviving daughter of Thutmoses 1 / Amenhotep 1. And yet then they do not speak of Moses because you claim he was written into Egyptian history.  Ah well that will explain it all then so you would think. 

And yet the data  I researched did mention Moses and so it was clear that it was known exactly who had adopted Moses and that Moses was for a Time the adoptive grandson of Thutmoses 1 / Amenhotep 1.  And that Moses became known as being Thutmoses 11 / Amenhotep 11.  Until he killed the Egyptian and fled Egypt. Methinks that you should then explain why everyone but those who wrote their essays in your links were oblivious as to who it was who adopted Moses.  And the Old Testament goes back just as far as any Egyptian history.  It is the Koran that is the new thingy. 

Kayyam you said:  She was not pharoah.

Starjade says:  Cleopatra Queen of Egypt was said to be the last Pharaoh of Egypt, history's infamous "Queen of the Nile." 

Kayyam you say:  That is quite a variation! From Maatkare to Nefure? No, what is clear is that you made a mistake with the names and are now back pedaling desperately. Maatkare had a daughter named Nefrure who did not live beyond childhood.

Starjade says;  hahaha you truly have a delusional impression of what you think I am thinking.  Trust me Kayyam you and these insignificant matters are as insignificant to me as the stench of gnat P on a summers day.  Stop flattering yourself so much.  Maatkare and nefure are the same person. 

Forget the name for a moment and think of who your own links say is the father of Maatkare.  Her father was none other than Thutmoses 1 / Amenhotep 1.  Who was the father of Nefure Hatshepsut.  People in various parts of Egypt had many different names for things.  Yet they are clearly the same person.

And yes they all named themselves after each other so what.  The ancient Egyptians believed that the first king of Egypt was Osiris. Osiris was married to Isis, his sister. Osiris' brother, Set, killed Osiris out of jealousy for the throne. To sum it up briefly, Isis brought Osiris back to life for one night by a magic spell- and during this one night she was impregnated by Osiris, who then returned to his death state. The child she bore was called Horus, and he was the reincarnation of Osirus. At the end of the story, the throne is returned to Horus, the rightful king.  Therefore, Isis' child was her son, her husband and her brother- all in one. All kings of Egypt were then said to be "Horus"- the reincarnation of Osiris. So they always named each predeceasing Pharaoh by the same name for it is believed by Egyptian that they are the same person reincarnated. 

Thutmoses 1 / Amenhotep 1.  is the father of Nefure Hatshepsut your Maatkare is Nefure Hatshepsut.  She was the only surviving daughter of  Thutmoses 1 / Amenhotep 1.  So get your facts right even your own links admit this is a fact.  Egytian history has many varying names for varying things.  Like Pharaoh and Ramesese.  You are in error Kayyam.  That should teach you not to try and get so clever eh.  

Kayyam you said;   Once we have this matter straightened out we may move on to Moses.

Starjade says:  The matter was sorted out it is you in denial swimming around in your own pool of ignorant bliss.  And I never left the subject of Moses.  Nefure Hatshepsut was the daughter of the Pharaoh not his wife.

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Well hello again Hafsa  Hey you and me pal we know how to write dont we.   I have 50 minutes internet Time left so I am not likely going to be able to reply to all you say today but you know I will respond. 

 Your post is about 9 feet long.   But we all know it will be defeated.   The pun was intended.   I know what Muslims believe the name Allah means I was just pointing out that you have all been decieved.  The name Allah mean supreme God however the supreme god of those days was hubal al'ilah the pagan moon god.    Hiding the name does not alter the fact that we know who was being worshipped and hubal al'ilah is certainly not the living God of Abraham or of Moses or of the much loved Doomsday prophet Starjade.

Now whats a Prophet from the living God gotta do eh.?  As that Deuteronomy Ch 18 v 15/18 Prophet that the living God promised Moses he would raise up.  I am just bound to tap all of you Muslims on the shoulder and say whats going on here then.  You are all worshipping the moon and claiming the moon is the living God of Moses when it is not.  Now in my view a Muslim {a real Muslim} would want to be told that information after all the living God did say we must not follow false Prophets or false Gods.  To do so is a Blasphmey as I am sure even all of you Muslims would agree. 

So this matter does need to be discussed as I really am someone who can stone entire continants to death using earthquake rubble and I do give my life body and soul up to the living God and will always do as the living God wishes.  So if you are guilty of blasphmey and worshippijng false Gods and following false Prophets then as you all fully know i must stone you all to your deaths. 

The moon is a stone in space.  Debri from spacial cataclysms.  It is not the Living God.  The Living White Sphere which is the living God lives beyond the Veil of the Abyss in deep space. 

Only man writes books.  Inspired perhaps by God or by the belief of or in God or from some form of direct divine intervention.  But God does not write books either way.  Only mankind writes books.  So do not make pages holy things.  There are enough golden calfs trotting about this planet without adding any more.

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Starjade says:  You do know Muhammad climbed up the Mountain because he said he had gone mad.  So then you admit you believe Muhammad was telling the truth then don�t you.  And that a Devil lives up your nose.?  (cough splutter)  scuse me a minute you have caused me to laugh so much my nose goo is splattering out across the computer screen.

Hafsa you said:  No I don�t know what you�re talking about.

Starjade says:  It is a matter of Islamic history that Muhammad did not believe Waraqi and so he said there was nothing he hated more than a poet or a madman so I shall climb up this Mountain and throw myself off and die.  Muhammad convinced he had gone mad had climbed half way up the Mountain to kill himself when the (cough) fabricated angel Gabriel that Luke had invented appeared to tell Muhammad he was that long awaited Deuteronomy Prophet to the Nation. Despite this angel Gabriel having already appeared 1000 years before to give proclamations that Jesus (of whom Muhammad believed in) was that Prophet instead.

 In fact this angel Gabriel had also appeared about 1000 years before Muhammad to proclaim Jesus who claimed he was that long awaited prophet.   So obviously Muhammad had gone mad as a hatter and what is worse is that Gabriel originated in a dream Daniel had whiles in a deep sleep.  So the Deuteronomy Doomsday Prophet Starjade clearly can speak on these matters and tell you all how deep the Rabbit hole really goes.

Now come on Hafsa all Muslims know Muhammad climbed up the Mountain to kill himself because he knew he had gone mad.  It is most common knowledge in Islam.  Go ask your Imam but by now you just know you can trust my words don�t you.?

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Hi Starjade,

Really? At what school was Wyatt trained in archeology? By the way, the BBC link was written by none other than the University of Liverpool's Joyce Tyldesley who literally wrote the book on Hatshepsut: "Hatchepsut: The Female Pharoah".

For the Nth time, Maatkare and Nefrure are different people. By the way, Hatshepsut was her real name not a title as you claim. She had the name from birth and when she became Pharoah she added Maatkare to her name.

That is pretty sad and funny at the same time. "Nefure" is a mispelling peculiar to Wyatt, which is why there are so few hits (127). So your google search leads directly to a bunch of Wyatt-sourced pages - many of which you have already proudly presented to me. For example, the "aloha" page is Michael Scheifler's Bible Light Homepage and lists Wyatt as its second reference.

Thats a rhetorical flourish. She was Queen during post-Pharaonic Egypt.

No, I am not going to forget the name. I started out by making this minor correction to your statements. I told you that you had the name wrong. Yes, we are talking about the same person - the daughter of Thutmose I. Now please start referring to her either as Hatshepsut or Maatkare, because Nefure is not one of her names. By the way, Amenhotep I is not the same as Thutmose I - they were not even related.

You seem to be getting rather upset that I am checking your facts. I am not expert, but it is pretty easy to find the errors in your puffed up doctrine.

Kayyam

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Kayyam you said� Hi Starjade,

Starjade says:  Hello Kayyam.

Kayyam you said� Really? At what school was Wyatt trained in archeology? By the way, the BBC link was written by none other than the University of Liverpool's Joyce Tyldesley who literally wrote the book on Hatshepsut: "Hatchepsut: The Female Pharoah".

Starjade says:  Everyone knows those from Liverpool are thick.  They did not study the subject diligentlty and did not even mention who adopted Moses which was the topic of conversations.  I do not even know Wyat but I did read his data and having sifted through a lot of Egyptian history myself I know his data on that matter is correct. 

Kayyam you said� For the Nth time, Maatkare and Nefrure are different people. By the way, Hatshepsut was her real name not a title as you claim. She had the name from birth and when she became Pharoah she added Maatkare to her name.

Starjade says:  Nefure Hatshepsut is the same person as your Maatkare.  They have exactly the same father and married exactly the same Pharaoh.  Your own data confirms that.  They often used different names in Egyptian history.  Nefure Hatshepsut did have female children and as is typical in Egypt they were named after their mother. 

Kayyam you said�  That is pretty sad and funny at the same time. "Nefure" is a mispelling peculiar to Wyatt, which is why there are so few hits (127). So your google search leads directly to a bunch of Wyatt-sourced pages - many of which you have already proudly presented to me. For example, the "aloha" page is Michael Scheifler's Bible Light Homepage and lists Wyatt as its second reference.

Starjade says:  The link lists all conversations about Nefure Hatshepsut.  There is a list just go down that list.  And there are Nefure and other variations.  Your Maatkare s father was the father of Nefure Hatshepsut.  The same father the same Pharaoh she married and so it is the same conclusion they are the same person. 

Kayyam you said� Thats a rhetorical flourish. She was Queen during post-Pharaonic Egypt.

Starjade says:  I have no interest in Cleopatra who is considered to have been a Pharaoh.  These conversations are about Nefure Hatshepsut and the fact she was the daughter of the Pharaoh and not his wife.

Kayyam you said:  No, I am not going to forget the name. I started out by making this minor correction to your statements. I told you that you had the name wrong. Yes, we are talking about the same person - the daughter of Thutmose I. Now please start referring to her either as Hatshepsut or Maatkare, because Nefure is not one of her names. By the way, Amenhotep I is not the same as Thutmose I - they were not even related.

Starjade says:  Nefure was her name and Thutmose I was her father.  And he was also Amenhotep I the two titles go together as all the Pharaohs of Egypt consider themselves to be God incarnate and incarnations of each other.  You cannot escape the error you made so face it.  Then move on. 

Kayyam you said:  You seem to be getting rather upset that I am checking your facts. I am not expert, but it is pretty easy to find the errors in your puffed up doctrine.  Kayyam

Starjade laughs.  I give the data and references knowing my words will be checked out.  Your delusional and paranoid.  I have no reason to be upset at anything for we are in debate and are bound to argue over this or that until you realise that I am right all along.  That is the way these debates work.  I bet you got eye strain from surfing through all that Egyptian data it is long and staggering and many do not even know what they are talking about.  I did like Wyatts simple statements on the matter.  I was impressed at his conciseness.  Too bad he shows his limits by believing in that false Prophet Jesus.  In searching for knowledge one should not be bios by religious beliefs.  Clearly other also see him as being well respected.  His other data I did find fascinating.

Now wake up Kayyam for Nefure Hatshepsut and Maatkaare are the same person.  Actually Wyat also gave in his data the explanation as to why Thutmose I also had the Title Amenhotep I. One can suppose your personal bigotry based on your mistaken beliefs caused you to discount his statements as well as mine.  Yet you are the one who is wrong. 

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Hafsa you claimed:  Bismillah ir Rahman ir Raheem  Ans:  Allah is All Powerful. He sent Wahi (revelations) upon the Prophet Mohammad�s (Sal Allaho Alehey Wassalam) heart through the highest angel Gibrael.

Starjade says:  So you do not explain where exactly allah sat down and did all that writing.  Because in fact it never happened.  I am aware that this is what you muslims believe and foolishly claim and have been told happened in Islamic propaganda but of course there is no truth in it.   However, the Sura 4:82 of the Koran and religious laws and religious text and the many errors found in the Koran prove otherwise.  You have no proof no evidence to back this claim and belief of yours up.  There is no Angel Gabriel.  Muhammad believed there was because he had heard of the tales of Luke speaking of this Angel Gabriel appearing to give authenticity to Jesus.  Luke was not a witness to the appearance of this angel Gabriel that he spoke about.  It was just a tale of invention. 

Jesus was then in later adult life depicted as claiming that he was that Prophet of Deuteronomy Ch 18 v 15/18 that the living God promised Moses he would raise up.  That is the very exact same specific Prophet that you Muslims believe Muhammad to be.  That is the very Prophet Muhammad said this Angel Gabriel told him that he was whiles on the Mountain.  Whiles Muhammad still believed in Jesus being the Prophet that Jesus claimed himself to being.  Oblivious to the fact that this same angel Gabriel had appeared to give authenticity to Jesus who claimed he was that Prophet some 1000 years before Muhammad was even born that is why they call Jesus the King of the Jews. 

Gabriel had originated as a man in a dream Daniel had whiles he was in a deep sleep.  It is only a Character named Luke who is making the claim that Gabriel is an Angel so he could promote Jesus as being that Deuteronomy Prophet.  Here are those only two Verses in the Old Testament that mention Gabriel. 

Old Testament Daniel Chapter 8 Verse 15:  And it came to pass when I even I Daniel had seen the vision and sought for the meaning.  Then behold there stood before me as the appearance of a man.  Verse 16:  And I heard a man�s voice between the banks of Ulai, which called and said Gabriel make this man understand the vision.  Verse 17:  So he came near where I stood and when he came I was afraid and fell upon my face.  He said unto me, understand O son of man for at the Time of the End shall be the vision. 

The second reference to Gabriel was in Daniel Chapter 9 Verse 21:  Yea whiles I was speaking in prayer even the man Gabriel, whom I had seen in the vision at the beginning being caused to fly swiftly, touched me about the Time of the evening oblation.  {End Quote}  Do you see that at no Time does Daniel refer to Gabriel as being an Angel?  Yet he does describe him as being like a man.  This is where Gabriel originated from, in the dreams of Daniel. 

Hafsa you claimed:  It so happened that he used to try to repeat those words with his mouth feeling his responsibility to safely reproduce them. Just then, once a wahi came telling him(in Sura 78 Ayah numbers 16-17):

�O Prophet don�t move your tongue hurriedly to memorize it (Quran). To store it safely and reproduce it is unto Us��and in Sura 15 Ayah no. 9:

Starjade says:  Muhammad or anyone can yackle out such claims but if that person speaking is proven to be presumptuous to think he could speak in Gods name then their statements have no importance or credibility.  There are two differently worded Korans containing different text.  This is the cause of the rift between the Shiite Muslims and the Sunny Muslim.  Some say Muhammad said this and another says Muhammad said something else.  Both are insistent.  So nothing was safely spoken. 

Muhammad often forgot the statements he made so he simply reworded something else.  Often Muslims who did memorise the things he said would complain and many Muslims have had mini wars over those very issues because Muhammad said different things to them.  So arguments broke out.  I can give examples if you wish.  This reply to your 9 feet long statement is a lot of text so as the evidence of errors in Muhammad�s words and memories are long I do not place them here but can if you request that evidence.

Hafsa you claimed:  so as such, we are very confident of Quran being the word of God. Now you yourself have explained how it was materialized through Sahaba further. Do you know that it was a general rule that there had to be at least two witnesses of each Ayah to be written down, who had heard it from the Prophet�s (Sal Allaho Alehey Wassalam) mouth directly. And there is a difference between a publisher and an author, of course.

Starjade says:  I did not know that about two or three witnesses to that every Ayah matter being written down.  Too bad Zayd ibn Thabit, did not bother to name or place those witness Testimonies as proof of what was said by Muhammad or reinvented by those scribes.  As those witnesses are not named then how can anyone be sure it is true.  I say it is a lie.  The Islamic experts who taught me all about Islam did not mention any witnesses to every Ayah.  Some named muslims did get a mention when arguments broke out over differing same Ayahs being recited and each saying they got it from Muhammad himself.  Muhammad of course bluffed out excuses as to why he said one thing then something else to another when he could not recall what he said the first Time. 

Muhammad had people write the information on skins and bones and wood and stuff so it is claimed and that is what those Ayahs were collected from.  Also from some claims of those who said Muhammad said this or that but in truth nobody is sure that all writ in the Koran came from Muhammad.  I suggest you study Islamic history a tad more for there is conflictory evidence to your claims.   Either way the source of those Ayahs did not come from any imaginary fabricated angel Gabriel or from God.  The Sura 4:82 of the Koran even admits that fact due to the many errors found in the Koran which also argues against your claims. 

They came from the mind of Muhammad and others and from statements copied from Old and New Testament text which was re worded so it wasn�t made obvious they just made their own worded copies of biblical tales.  It is good to know the law of Deuteronomy is thought to be upheld now and then even in the Islamic religion and yet you are making claims of these things with no named witnesses for each Sura said.  And the Koran was writ long after the death of Muhammad making that claim lose its credibility especially when the Islamic brag is that people originally memorised the words of Muhammad.  Name the witnesses instead of just saying they exist without proof. 

The Sura 4:82 states it wisely.  Do they not consider the Koran with care for if it had come from any other than Allah then surely they would have found much discrepancy therein?  Clearly as many errors are found in the Koran.  Then that rules out any hope of the Koran as being any book sent by the living God of Moses.  So the authors of the Koran are clearly mankind and not divine.  And you Muslims publish the Koran and do not pretend that the tax that your Islamic church gets from its followers as well as the power over the people is no incentive to keep those coffers and the deceptions flowing.  

Starjade says:  You are in no position to just dismiss anything.  Who do you think you are?  These conversations are taking place under Islamic law and by the Sura 4:82 challenge that Muslims goaded me into taking on.  I did accept that challenge and I won.  Islam bit the Dust.  So you cannot dismiss anything I say with a shirkers excuse. 

The Moon-god Hubal al�ilah was called al-ilah, i.e. they say supreme god, which was shortened to Allah in pre-Islamic times.  The supreme god in those days was that pagan moon god Hubal al�ilah as everyone knows.

Hafsa you claimed:  (well, its not believable!)  [/quote]

Starjade says;  What is not believable.  The Old Testament exists everywhere and so you can check that text out.  And I can prove I am a Prophet from God real easily so I can prove the things that you would think impossible.  And it is most funny you speak of belief for you worship the moon and believe the Koran comes from God even when the Koran itself says it does not.  You believe a fabricated angel appeared to Muhammad and gave him a squeeze in a cave with no witnesses at all and yet you believe.  {If I had come here with such a daft tale you would have laughed your socks off.}  Even when errors in the Koran and in the word of Muhammad are clearly shown to you you ignore them wanting to believe in something clearly shown to not be true.  Hahaha I think you should tread most carefully in speaking of the things you believe when speaking with someone like me.

Hafsa you claimed:   (what does it refer to, that a blessed gold powder was indeed a special gift)  

Starjade says:  Hardly a gift but a curse from the living God via Moses.  A point was being made.  Hence the expression biting the dust.  Moses forced them to eat their false god the Golden Calf.  Then he put some to their death by the sword and then he marched those blaspheming people around the desert for 40 years until all of that generation of blasphemous people died. 

Hafsa you claimed:  Interestingly you avoided the Ayah in the Quran in your quote, and just quoted your own words.   It only meant that sun set on that side, as dusk APPEARS.

Starjade says:  There was no point in continuing to repeat myself and the Ayah of where Muhammad claimed the sun set in a pool of muddy water.  I have spoken on that at length several times. I wasn�t asking you what you thought it meant but explaining to you that Muhammad replied when asked where the Sun set.  He said it set in a pool of muddy water but the Sun does not set in a pool of muddy water.  I did address this matter of the setting sun more deeply in explanations of the words of Muhammad.  So you must have missed what was written.  Look back and reflect on those words. 

 Hafsa you claimed:  I referred to the ayah  in Sura Rahman which tells that all planets float in their own orbits and to another ayah in Sura Kahaf which tells that sun cannot catch the moon nor moon can catch the sun, as they both rotate in their own orbits.  Yes till a couple of decades ago, it was believed in science that sun does not rotate.

Starjade says:  That is just Islamic propaganda.  There are civilisations on this planet who have star charts and plotted the orbits of the moon and sun and other things.  So these things were known aeons of Time ago.  But your Islamic religious leaders want to beguile you with tales of wonderments.  I am not impressed.  Whiles you do this bragging you missed speaking on where Thunder and lightening came from and the fact that you Muslims give your worship to the Moon and claim stars as the moons daughters.  So when it comes to scientific claims coming from the Koran they can only be taken with a pinch of salt. 

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Hafsa you say:  Give evidence which says so.

Starjade says:  Thousands of inscriptions from walls and rocks in Northern Arabia have been collected. Relief�s and votive bowls used in worship of the "daughters of Allah" have also been discovered. These matters are well known and it is for you to research.  The archaeological evidence demonstrates that the dominant religion of Arabia was the cult of the Moon-god.  Type archaeology of the pagan moon god Hubal al�ilah into your search engine.  There are lots of details listing out such things. 

Here are a few links as you requested so you know  what scholars say about Allah and Muhammad. 

1. Al-'Uzza, al-Lat and Manah, the three daughters of Allah, had their sanctuaries in the land which later became the cradle of Islam. In a weak moment the monotheistic Muhammad was tempted to recognize these powerful deities of Makkah and al-Madinah and make a compromise in their favour, but afterwards he retracted and the revelation is said to have received the form now found in surah 53:19-20. Later theologians explained the case according to the principle of nasikh and mansukh, abrogating and abrogated verses, by means of which God revokes and alters the announcements of His will; this results in the cancellation of a verse and the substitution of another for it (Koran 2 :100). (History Of The Arabs, Philip K. Hitti, 1937, p 96-101)
2. Allat, according to recent study of the complicated inspirational evidence, is believed to have been introduced into Arabia from Syria, and to have been the moon goddess of North Arabia. If this is the correct interpretation of her character, she corresponded to the moon deity of South Arabia, Almaqah, `Vadd, `Amm or Sin as he was called, the difference being only the oppositeness of gender. Mount Sinai (the name being an Arabic feminine form of Sin) would then have been one of the centers of the worship of this northern moon goddess. Similarly, al-`Uzza is supposed to have come from Sinai, and to have been the goddess of the planet Venus. As the moon and the evening star are associated in the heavens, so too were Allat and al-`Uzza together in religious belief, and so too are the crescent and star conjoined on the flags of Arab countries today. (The Archeology Of World Religions, Jack Finegan, 1952, p482-485, 492)
3. Prior to the rise of Islam, these three goddesses were associated with Allah as his daughters and all were worshiped at Mecca and other places in the vicinity. (The Archeology Of World Religions, Jack Finegan, 1952, p482-485, 492)
4. The Aus and Khazraj tribes of Medina were the most prominent worshipers of Manat, while the Quraish of Mecca paid much reverence to Allat and al-`Uzza, most of all to the latter. The Quraish were the tribe to which Muhammad belonged, and Ibn al-Kalbi states that before the prophet began to preach his own message he himself once offered a white sheep to al-`Uzza. Such was the "paganism" in which Muhammad was reared and which he later came to believe it was his mission to dispel. (The Archeology Of World Religions, Jack Finegan, 1952, p482-485, 492)
5. The same three goddesses appear -and then disappear-in an extremely curious and much-discussed place in Sura 53 of the Quran. The exact context is unknown, but Muhammad was still at Mecca and was apparently feeling the pressures of the Quraysh resistance to his message: "When the Messenger of God saw how his tribe turned their backs on him and was grieved to see them shunning the message he had brought to them from God, he longed in his soul that something would come to him from God that would reconcile him with his tribe. With his love for his tribe and his eagerness for their welfare, it would have delighted him if some of the difficulties which they made for him could have been smoothed, and he debated with himself and fervently desired such an outcome. Then God revealed (Sura 53) ... and when he came to the words "Have you thought al-Lat and al-Uzza and Manat, the third, the other?" (VV. 19-20) Satan cast on his tongue, because of his inner debates and what he desired to bring to his people, the words: "These are the high-flying cranes; verily their intercession is to be hoped for." When the Quraysh heard this, they rejoiced and were happy and delighted at the way in which he had spoken of their gods, and they listened to him, while the Muslims, having complete trust in their Prophet with respect of the message which he brought from God, did not suspect him of error, illusion or mistake. When he came to the prostration, having completed the Sura, he prostrated himself and the Muslims did likewise.... The polytheists of the Quraysh and others who were in the mosque [that is, the Meccan Haram] likewise prostrated themselves because of the reference to their gods which they heard, so that there was no one in the mosque, believer or unbeliever, who did not prostrate himself ... Then they all dispersed from the mosque. The Quraysh left delighted at the mention of their gods." (Tabari, Annals 1.1192-1193 = Tabari vi: 108-109) This is the indubitably authentic story-it is difficult to imagine a Muslim inventing such a tale--of the notorious "Satanic verses." (The Hajj, F. E. Peters, p 3-41, 1994)
6. And what precisely are we to understand by "exalted cranes"? The Muslim authorities were uncertain about the meaning of gharaniq, as are we. 65 But what they did know was that this was the refrain that the Quraysh used to chant as they circumambulated the Ka'ba: "Al-Lat, and al-Uzza and Manat, the third, the other; indeed these are exalted (or lofty, �ula) gharaniq; let us hope for their intercession." (The Hajj, F. E. Peters, p 3-41, 1994)
7. Even though their principal shrines lay north and east of Mecca, al-Lat, al-Uzza, and Manat were all worshiped by the Quraysh of Mecca, and at least al-Uzza numbered no less than Muhammad himself among her worshipers. (The Hajj, F. E. Peters, p 3-41, 1994)
8. However, in my opinion it is unthinkable that the men of the later tradition, who regarded Mohammed in every respect as a perfect example for the faithful, would have deliberately invented a story so seriously compromising their Prophet. We must therefore assume, as the historical kernel of the tradition, that Sura 53.19ff. once embodied a different wording, implying acceptance of the pagan conception of the gods, an implication which Mohammed subsequently felt to be incompatible with belief in the one God. In style and rhythm the two Satanic lines fit admirably into the original Sura, which is amongst the earliest revelations, so that it is impossible that they should have been added as late as the Abyssinian emigration. Mohammed often made additions to the older Suras, and in such cases he always employed the formal style which dominates every revelation, so that the added lines always stand out clearly from the original. Moreover, in the original version the Sura probably contained a polemic against paganism. Mohammed objected to the expression, 'Daughters of Allah,' Which his countrymen applied to the three goddesses, and declared that it was wrong to think of God as having daughters. However, he did not intend to deny that the goddesses were high heavenly beings who could make intercession to God. Such a position is really not unthinkable in the earliest period of the Prophet's career. He merely attributed to the heavenly intercessors the same position which the angels occupied in the popular religion of the Eastern Christian churches. Undoubtedly there existed at that time an actual angel cult. (Mohammed: The man and his faith, Tor Andrae, 1936, Translated by Theophil Menzel, 1960, p13-30)
9. And in Arabian paganism, as we shall see later, the idea of subordinate divine beings acting as mediators and intercessors is not at all unthinkable. That Mohammed actually once thought of the three goddesses as interceding angels is shown by his later addition to the aforementioned Sura 53.26-29: 'And many as are the angels in the Heavens, their intercession shall be of no avail until God hath permitted it to whomsoever He shall please, and whom He will accept. Verily it is they who believe not in the life to come, who name the angels with names of females: But herein they have no knowledge: they follow a mere conceit; and mere conceit can never take the place of acceptance of truth.' Here Mohammed implies that the goddesses are in reality angels, to whom the pagans in their ignorance have given feminine names (comp. 37, 149-50: 43.18). Albeit with strict reservations, the right of the angels to make intercession is here recognized. (Mohammed: The man and his faith, Tor Andrae, 1936, Translated by Theophil Menzel, 1960, p13-30)
10. Thus, some interpreter of the Koran who belonged to an older generation tried to explain the tradition concerning the original wording of the 53rd Sura to a later type of piety which found it obnoxious. He found the explanation in two passages of the Koran. The first was Sura 17, 75-6: 'And, verily, they had well-nigh beguiled thee from what we revealed to thee, and caused thee to invent some other thing in our name: but in that case they would surely have taken thee as a friend; And had we not confirmed thee, thou hadst well-nigh leaned to them a little.' The context shows that these words refer to a political intrigue by means of which the Quraish had hoped to drive Mohammed out of his native city (verse 78). The other passage was Sura 22, Si, where we read, amongst other things: 'We have not sent any apostle or prophet before thee, amongst whose desires Satan hath injected not some wrong desire, but Allah shall bring to nought that which Satan hath suggested. (Mohammed: The man and his faith, Tor Andrae, 1936, Translated by Theophil Menzel, 1960, p13-30)
11. "As well as worshipping idols and spirits, found in animals, plants, rocks and water, the ancient Arabs believed in several major gods and goddesses whom they considered to hold supreme power over all things. The most famous of these were Al-Lat, Al-Uzza, Manat and Hubal. The first three were thought to be the daughters of Allah (God) and their intercessions on behalf of their worshippers were therefore of great significance. Hubal was associated with the Semitic god Ba�l and with Adonis or Tammuz, the gods of spring, fertility, agriculture and plenty. (Fabled Cities, Princes & Jin from Arab Myths and Legends, Khairt al-Saeh, 1985, p. 28-30.)
12. "The Quran (22.52/I) implies that on at least one occasion �Satan had interposed� something in the revelation Muhammad received, and this probably refers to the incident to be described. The story is that, while Muhammad was hoping for some accommodation with the great merchants, he received a revelation mentioning the goddesses al-Lat, al-Uzza, and Manat (53.19), 20 as now found), but continuing with other two (or three) verses sanctioning intercession to these deities. At some later date Muhammad received a further revelation abrogating the latter verses, but retaining the names of the goddesses, and saying it was unfair that God should have only daughters while human beings had sons." (The Cambridge History of Islam, Vol. I, ed. P.M. Holt, 1970, p 37)
13. Since the Arabs used words expressing kinship to denote abstract relationships, the banat Allah may be no more than 'divine beings' or 'beings with some divine qualities. (Muhammad's Mecca, W. Montgomery Watt, Chapter 3: Religion In Pre-Islamic Arabia, p26-45)
14. "19 - 30/1 The pagan goddesses: 19,2o El-Lat ... El-'Uzza ... Manat: these goddesses were specially connected with three shrines in the neighbourhood of Mecca, namely at at-Ta�if, Nakhla (on the road to at-Ta'if, and at a place on the road to Medina. The story is that when these verses were first recited, Muhammad was anxious to win over the pagan Meccans, and failed to notice when Satan introduced two (or three) further verses permitting intercession at these shrines. This story could hardly have been invented, and gains support from sura 22, v. 52/1 (see comment). At length Muhammad realized the substitution, and received the continuing revelation as it now is in the Qur'an." (Companion to the Qur�an, W. Montgomery Watt, p 244)
15. AI-Lat, AI-�Uzza, and Manat. Among the Qur�an's references to its 7 th-century pagan milieu are three goddesses, called daughters of Allah: AI-Lat, AI-�Uzza, and Manat; these are also known from earlier inscriptions in northern Arabia. Al-Lat ("the Goddess") may have had a role subordinate to that of El (Ilah), as "daughter" rather than consort (Britannica, Arabian Religions, p1057, 1979)
16. "Astral and tutelary goddess. Pre-Islamic northern and central Arabian. One of the three daughters of Allah." (Encyclopedia of Gods, Michael Jordan, Allat, p 12)
17. "Manat: Goddess. Pre-Islamic... One of the so-called daughters of Allah." (Encyclopedia of Gods, Michael Jordan, Manat, p 156)
18. Was Muhammad ready to compromise his monotheistic message to attract more converts? Was the Qu'ran even momentarily tainted by the influence of absolute evil? In context, we can see that, as Rodinson and Watt have both argued, the story does not present Muhammad as a cynical impostor. (Muhammad: A Western Attempt to Understand Islam, Karen Armstrong, Chapter 6: the Satanic verses, p 108-133, 1991)
19. The story, as it appears in the histories of Ibn Sa'd and Tabari, says that on one occasion Satan interfered with Muhammad's reception of the divine Word. While Sura 53 was being revealed, this tradition has it, Muhammad felt inspired to utter two verses which declared that the three goddesses al-Lat, al-Uzza and Manat could be revered as intermediaries between God and man. But since the Quraysh considered the banat Allah divine beings, they wrongly believed that the Qu'ran had placed them on the same level as God Himself. Thinking that Muhammad had accepted their goddesses as having equal status to Allah, the pagan Qu'raysh bowed down to make the salat with the Muslims and the bitter dispute seemed at an end. Because the Qu'ran appeared to have endorsed the piety of their fathers and to have abandoned its monotheistic message, they no longer saw Islam as a sacrilegious threat that could bring a catastrophe on the people of Mecca. The story goes on, however, that Muhammad later received another revelation which indicated that his apparent acceptance of the cult of the banat Allah had been inspired by 'Satan'. Consequently, the two verses were expunged from the Qu'ran and replaced by others which declared that the three goddesses were figments of the Arabs' imagination and deserved no worship at all. (Muhammad: A Western Attempt to Understand Islam, Karen Armstrong, Chapter 6: the Satanic verses, p 108-133, 1991)
20. Surely any genuine prophet would be able to distinguish between a divine and a satanic inspiration? Would a man of God tamper with his revelation merely to attract more converts? Recently, however, scholars like Maxime Rodinson and W. Montgomery Watt have attempted to show that even as the story stands it does not necessarily bear such a negative interpretation. Nevertheless, the incident remained far more important in the Western than in the Islamic world; at least until 1988. (Muhammad: A Western Attempt to Understand Islam, Karen Armstrong, Chapter 6: the Satanic verses, p 108-133, 1991)
21. The other gods mentioned in the Quran are all female deities: Al-Lat, al-Uzza, and Manat, which represented the Sun, the planet Venus, and Fortune, respectively; at Mecca they were regarded as the daughters of Allah... As Allah meant �the god�, so Al-Lat means �the goddess�." (Islam, Alfred Guilaume, 1956 p 6-7)
22. "In pre-Islamic days, called the Days of Ignorance, the religious background of the Arabs was pagan, and basically animistic. Through wells, trees, stones, caves, springs, and other natural objects man could make contact with the deity... At Mekka, Allah was the chief of the gods and the special deity of the Quraish, the prophet�s tribe. Allah had three daughters: Al Uzzah (Venus) most revered of all and pleased with human sacrifice; Manah, the goddess of destiny, and Al Lat, the goddess of vegetable life. " (Meet the Arab, John Van Ess, 1943, p. 29)
23. "Ali-ilah; the god; the supreme; the all-powerful; all-knowing; and totally unknowable; the predeterminer of everyone�s life destiny; chief of the gods; the special deity of the Quraish; having three daughters: Al Uzzah (Venus), Manah (Destiny), and Alat; having the idol temple at Mecca under his name (House of Allah).; the mate of Alat, the goddess of fate. (Is Allah The Same God As The God Of The Bible?, M. J. Afshari, p 6, 8-9)
24. "It is certain that they regarded particular deities (mentioned in 1iii. 19-20 are al-�Uzza, Manat or Manah, al-Lat; some have interpreted vii, 179 as a reference to a perversion of Allah to Allat) as daughters of Allah (vi. 100; xvi, 59; xxxvii, 149; 1iii, 21); they also asserted that he had sons (vi. 100) (First Encyclopedia of Islam, E.J. Brill, 1987, p. 302)
25. "The Quraysh tribe into which Mohammad was born was particularly devoted to Allah, the moon god, and especially to Allah's three daughters who were viewed as intercessors between the people and Allah." ... "The worship of the three goddesses, Al-Lat, Al-Uzza, and Manat, played a significant role in the worship at the Kabah in Mecca. The first two daughters of Allah had names which were feminine forms of Allah." (The Islamic Invasion, Robert Morey, 1977, p 51)
26. "This was especially true of Allah, 'the God, the Divinity', the personification of the divine world in its highest form, creator of the universe and keeper of sworn oaths. In the Hejaz three goddesses had pride of place as the 'daughters of Allah'. The first of these was Allat, mentioned by Herodotus under the name of Alilat. Her name means simply 'the goddess', and she may have stood for one aspect of Venus, the morning star, although hellenized Arabs identified her with Athene. Next came Uzza, 'the all-powerful', whom other sources identify with Venus. The third was Manat, the goddess of fate, who held the shears which cut the thread of life and who was worshipped in a shrine on the sea-shore. (Muhammad, Maxime Rodinson, p 16-17.)
27. "According to this version of the story, the Quraysh were delighted with the new revelation, which in al-Kalbi's words was the traditional invocation made by the Qura'sh to the goddesses as they circumambulated the Ka'aba (Faris 17). The gharaniq were probably Numidian cranes which were thought to fly higher than any other bird. Muhammad, may have believed in the existence of the banat - al-Llah as he believed in the existence of angels and jinn, was giving the 'goddesses' a delicate compliment, without compromising his message. ... The Quraysh spread the good news throughout the city: 'Muhammad has spoken of our gods in splendid fashion. He alleged in what he recited that they are the exalted gharaniq whose intercession is approved" (Muhammad: A Western Attempt to Understand Islam, Karen Armstrong, Chapter 6: the Satanic verses, p 108-133, 1991) 

Starjade says:  One must suppose that nobody told the ordinary Muslim in the street meanwhiles the rest of the world continued on.   But we know who you give your worship to and why. 

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The Lord King and King of Kings. Starjade
The Crown of the Living White Sphere of Kether.

Starjade  

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Hafsa you said:  there is much more and a lot more impressive of what we as muslims already know about the life hereafter. It is going to be eternal and after we are raised up.

Starjade says:  What you Muslims think you know about the after life is what Muhammad has claimed to you.  However Muhammad is proven to be presumptuous to think he could speak in Gods name and so he told you of his own opinions and views of what he thought was going on in the after life and not about what is going on in the after life.  I have already heard your Islamic beliefs on these matters and it is all ridicules and untrue. 

Hafsa you said:   What you experienced, as you say, is what many others have also experienced. You may have read a book my some man named �(something) Moody� in 70�s who recorded the statements of all such people.

Starjade says;  I have not read any such book that you named.  I am an Adept astral traveller and my Journey beyond the Grave to the living White Sphere is unique to me and not experienced by others living on this Planet.  That union makes me a son of the living God.  There are others who are born and who do live within the white lights of the Living White Sphere.  I am the only one here living on this Planet. 

Hafsa you said:  Their account was somewhat similar to each other.   You should check what exactly that was, rather than insisting you�re a prophet.

Starjade says:  There is no such person living or dead who has experienced anything like my Journey beyond the grave and I flew astrally from the Living White Sphere {which is the living God } across the Abyss and through the Veil of the Abyss all the way to this planet and re inhabited and resurrected my long dead body and walked away fully conscious all the Time.  The fact that escapes you is that I am a Prophet. This fact can be proven by witnesses and by the law of Deuteronomy Ch 19 v 15.  Prophesying the future is what makes me a Prophet and my Prophesying the prayers of a woman buried in an earthquake one year into the future establishes that I have a provable connection to the living God by witness Testimony. I have no reason to read the experiences of the claims of others when I have direct knowledge of my own journeys. 

Hafsa you said:  The white sphere you talk about could probably been your Rooh. You are sent back to life, treasure it and come to good deeds.)

Starjade says:  Do not presume to say probably to me.  The living White Sphere is the living God and I came back to this Planet because the living God had plans for me.  Now if those plans conflict with your pagan moon god worshipping and false Prophet worshipping then that is just tough on you.  My plans take precedence over anything you believe just because some madman from the past told you so.  I bring proof with my claims and all you can do is voice out some shallow opinions. 

[/quote] Starjade says:  You do know Muhammad climbed up the Mountain because he said he had gone mad.  So then you admit you believe Muhammad was telling the truth then don�t you.  And that a Devil lives up your nose.?  (cough splutter)  scuse me a minute you have caused me to laugh so much my nose goo is splattering out across the computer screen. [/quote]

Hafsa you said:  No I don�t know what you�re talking about.

Starjade says:  Well I have replied to this already so you must know by now.  I thought all Muslims knew Muhammad believed that he had gone mad and that he had climbed up the Mountain to kill himself several times I add.  Of course paranoid schizophrenics can have similar experiences. 

Hafsa you say: 

 But I will certainly believe in him more than any man in the world, InshaAllah. What are doctors to know about the immaterial world. Haven�t those doctors told YOU anything.

Starjade says:  The only doctors I speak with are Islamic doctors they told me many things and yet they all still bit the dust.  The Sura 4:82 of the Koran says that you must reject the words of Muhammad and so your beliefs are under conflicts.  Whiles you speak of immaterial demons explain how material water would then flush out that Devil.  You talked yourself into a hole there.  

Hafsa you said:  First of  all, why do always say devil lives up a muslim�s nose, so many inaccuracies in your quoting and that too deliberate. 

Starjade says:  I read the Hadith where Muhammad said that.  I had the number writ down but it is on another computer.  I can find it for you if you want.  How come as a Muslim you did not know? Muhammad said the Devil lives up the nose of Muslims hence the reason of snorting up the water to flush out that Devil from the nostril which would not be needed if that imaginary Devil just sat on your nose.  You just realise how daft that Hadith is and want to re write it with your own words.  But Muhammad was the one who said that not you.  So I was repeating his words. 

Hafsa you said: 

Satan and his community is very large. They have their own agendas on which they work with collaboration. Satan is said to have been sitting on a person�s nose while he�s sleeping, so muslims are supposed to cleanse their nose when they wake up.

Starjade says;  Then you do know this Hadith.  What I read was different. 

Hafsa you said:  The reason that I can make out (since you insist) would but just a theory of my imagination.

Starjade says:  Ah the Islamic theories that Muslims come up with are the best.  Clearly to even make a theory you cannot explain away such a daft belief.  You are admitting the error come on confess Muhammad was making it all up. 

Hafsa you said;  So it could be that since in dirt if an associate of Satan in some form controls or disturbs the breath while sleeping, the piety may be affected. Hence the source may have to be cleaned. However  I trust the divine wisdom for a superior reasoning than mine, without question. 

Starjade says:  Clearly I have shown there is no divine workings in the imaginations of Muhammad.  Only deceptions. He was either taking the P or insulting the trusting minds of those who believed every word he said.  In fact I would say both if it was not for my knowing the reason he climbed the Mountain because he knew he had gone mad.  And this dirt can be said to have come from mother earth which was made by God.  So your reasoning is flawed. 

Hafsa you pointed out:  You also say there are no angels, so if you say there is no satan nor his partners, you�re not too good to believe. And Mohammad (Sal Allaho Alehe Wassallam) had a very gentle and decent sense of humor for a fact. Also he did not and insisted that we should not tell lies even while joking.

Starjade says:  I did not say there are no Angels.  I said there was no Angel Gabriel.  Gabriel originated in a dream that Daniel had whiles in a deep sleep and he described a man not any angel.  It is only the Roman Christians character Luke who names Gabriel as an Angel and my own studies into Christianity show that there is no doubt the reference was about the Gabriel in Daniels dream. 

Muhammad has been caught out in some very big lies and it was me being kindly to him to claim he must have been Joking.  Clearly my other conclusions have validity as no Devil lives up anyone�s nose.  People themselves are Demons and Devils.  But not all so be watchful.  Their astral is grey in colour by the way.  There are some who can detect that astral colour in people. 

Hafsa you say:  It was Allah�s prerogative to punish them the way he liked. As for witnesses, those who did not do it and those who did not do it and additionally stopped the culprits, they were the witnesses I suppose, as they found those people suddenly missing.

Starjade says:  This is just a fairy tale and there are no witness Testimonies to this event ever taking place.  It is like saying Sherlock Holmes existed along with those fictional characters because you read it said something about them in a book.  That is not proof it is not evidence it is a tale that cannot be proven to be true.  So you have no witnesses at all that such an event took place.  No historical records nothing.  Just a tale you are led to believe.  Every child gets told a fairy tale. 

Hafsa you said:  I consider your followers to be idol worshipping, and truly astray.

Starjade says:  I have no followers.  Only the living God should have followers.  The living God chose me to be that Deuteronomy Ch 18 v 15/18 Prophet and so to me they should hearken.  But they are not to follow me but to follow the advice of the living God.  I see no true followers of the living God on this Planet.  I see only those who make false claims and brags that they follow the living God.  But they are liars and frauds and blasphemous people and they make my anger blaze when I see their deceptions.  Too many have been led astray. 

__________________
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The Lord King and King of Kings. Starjade
The Crown of the Living White Sphere of Kether.

Starjade  

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Hafsa you say:  A real Prophet doesn�t say he could be a certain prophet due to this and that argument. He is exactly and precisely told about everything.

Starjade says:  Sounds like I got it all right then doesn�t it.  And I am established by the law of Deuteronomy Ch 19 v 15 to be a genuine Prophet with a provable connection to the living God.  So I am a genuine Prophet. 

You cannot say that same thing about Jesus and Muhammad or any other who claimed to be a Prophet who has ever lived.  Only Starjade is the King of that castle.  I have been very precise and clear as to which exact Prophet it is that Deuteronomy law established myself to being.  Very clear and you all heard me speak and are also my witnesses. 

Hafsa you claimed:  A real Prophet does not contest for a throne, he is sure of the guidance he gets from God that he has to transmit.

Starjade says:  In case you were asleep there is no contest to my Throne.  Those other frauds bit the dust long before I even spoke on this forum and no Christians or Muslims can defend their false Prophets from my God given Revelations. That is why I am the Challenger and your false Prophets claims are still biting the dust.  And I transmit my words clearly concisely and exactly.  Did you not notice I came here challenging Islam and under Islamic law and by the Sura 4:82.  So I am being respectful yet specific and precise and there is nothing any Muslim on this Planet can do to defend the claims of their false Prophet and his fabricated religion.  Christianity also bit the dust and they are just as powerless.   So my religious guidance is most powerful

Hafsa you say:  Keep up with your efforts, in a hope that one day you�ll be able to be a better lawyer. You�ll still not turn into a prophet though.

Starjade says:  I am already a prophet and I am established by Deuteronomy law Ch 19 v 15 a law brought down by Moses from the Living God and is therefore the actual word of the living God.  This brag that the Koran is all Arabic is simply not true.  I just thought I would point out those facts are known whiles listening to that Islamic brag about needing to speak and read Arabic.  The Koran is not all Arabic. 

Hafsa you said:  So you�re serious that if words in Quraan are also in languages other Arabic, then they are fake. I think it advocates only that Allah had sent other Prophets on other regions who spoke those words. It also suggests that these words describe the message more accurately than their alternatives.

Starjade says:  No I do not mean that at all.  I trust the translations into English from Muslims.  You were the ones who claim when an error is pointed out that it was due to some translation error and so you do not trust those Muslims where I do.  The Sura 4:82 states it all.   Do they not consider the Koran with care for if it had come from any other than Allah then surely they would have found much discrepancy therein. 

Well now it is the many staggering errors that are found in the Koran that establish that the Koran by its own admission does not come from God.  That fact proves that the claims of Muhammad are not true.  Two birds with one stone so to speak.  It is the many errors that show the fabrications of deceptions.  So it is not a matter of what language the book is writ in  that is just Islamic excuses.  And who exactly are these other Prophets you now mention. 

Hafsa you said:  That is a fiction story.

Starjade says:  Gasp!   you mean the tale of the Genie in the magic lamp is not true.  Dang it all and what about the flying carpet is that a story made up also.  Oh my God you will be telling me Santa Claus does not exist. But then be the wise to realise I knew that and was just adding on a bit of humour.

Hafsa you said:  ( Allah according to Islam is the same as the one and only God who sent other true Prophets like Ibrahim, Moses, Isa and Mohammad (pbut) 

Starjade says:  That is what you majority of Muslims are led to believe.  But this is not true in my research into Islamic history.  Allah is simply a shortened down version of the pagan moon god Hubal al�ilah.  That was considered to be the Supreme god throughout the middle east and I would not speak on that if I did not know it was true.  So I expect all muslims to stop giving their worship to that moon god and convert to giving Worship only to the Living God of Abraham and of Moses and of the Deuteronomy Doomsday prophet Starjade.

I add this thought.  If you Muslims truly worshipped the Living God of Abraham and of Moses then you must accept then the Old Testament and its laws.  So then the law of Deuteronomy Ch 19 v 15 comes to my mind always.  In crimes of iniquity and sin You need two or three witnesses to prove a thing is true. 

So then produce two or three witnesses to the appearance of this Angel Gabriel in the cave or on the Mountain or anyplace.  Show their Testimonies.  Produce witness Testimonies to Muhammad flying of to heaven and having chats with God.

Muhammad has no witnesses to his claims and even the Sura 4:82 stands against those claims as well as Deuteronomy law and common sense.  Trust me I have had Islamic scholars trying to work out where they might find such witness Testimonies and none exist.  So then the conclusion is obvious.  If you give worship to the living God of Moses then you must judge by the Living Gods laws.  You cannot have it both ways. 

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The Crown of the Living White Sphere of Kether.

Starjade  

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Hafsa you said:  ( we think otherwise. You are highly mislead and misleading. What you call your revelations are what Satan has put in your mind.)             

Starjade says:  There is nothing misleading in my words I can back my mouth up all the way.  You cannot back your mouths and claims up though can you.  We all know that it is no secret.  The law of Deuteronomy Ch 19 v 15 specifically states that I am not guilty of any Crime of Iniquity or Sin.  So you are simply being unjust from your own spite.  Tsk Tsk Tsk  but then what would a moon worshipper know of the laws of the Living God eh.  That point I have just made.  See how easy it is for you as a Muslim to ignore. As I have said you do not follow or give worship to the living God of Abraham or of Moses or of the much loved Doomsday prophet Starjade. The shame is on you.

Hafsa you say:   I told you:  All nations were sent with some prophets till one time who brought for them the religion of the only one God. It kept on changing with time however. So an ancient punishment that exists in old scriptures must be related to each other.  As an evidence that this punishment existed in Moses times I told you: Hinduism is even older and even in their old scripture this punishment is mentioned (refer their Vishnusutra Ch.5,verse 49).

Starjade says:  It was not existing in Egypt.  I have no interest in Hindu�s who worship many false Gods.  The Old Testament is ancient enough and those magicians were not threatened with death in the Old Testament.  That is just some flamboyant writer of the Koran re inventing the tale that was stole from the Old Testament and reworded.  When deciphering during research certain text other things give of clues and they cannot be overlooked for your convenience.  Only the Koran makes that threat of death on those magicians with an Islamic form of capital punishments that are still carried out today.  This shows the text being written along with its fabricated tales came from a Muslims mind not a Jewish one or Egyptian one.

Hafsa you said:  Had you some faith, you�d realize/admit that only you are fabricating all sorts of stories using texts from all places. There is no dispute in the Quranic text and I know it as I�m close to all sects. I guess your last strategy is to devide and rule!

Starjade says:  First point is I do have lists of hundreds of errors that do exist in the Koran and the Sura 4:82 challenge is self concluding. 

I was pointing out that in the original source of data those magicians were not ever threatened and this had only been changed in the new fabricated 1425 years old Koran.  Which is not a data source and even admits it does not come from God by the Sura 4:82 and plagiarised its text from the Old and New Testament re writing the tales as they went along.

By the way:  Islam is not a single whole unit of religious belief wrong or right.  There are the Shiite and the Sunny who both follow different beliefs.  So you are already divided.  You are also busy bombing each others Mosques and each other in a bloodshed that continues to show Islam in a bad light to the rest of the world.  And you think that is religion. ?  Do go tell all your sects about me wont you less I come upon them and they become surprised.  We both know how powerless they are against me.  Let them know up front who I am claiming to be and just how powerless Islam is against me and my God given Revelations.  Especially tell their Imams and dare them to come online to face me. 

The Sura 4:82 is a dispute in the Koran.  The Koran itself admits that it does not come from God.  The Koran itself promote Jesus and Muhammad who both claim that they are that Deuteronomy Ch 18 v 15/18 Prophet that the living God promised Moses he would raise up.  Even though the living God only promised to raise up only one Prophet and Deuteronomy law Ch 19 v 15 states clearly it was not either of them.

It is not a matter of divide and rule. It is a matter of the Sura 4:82 challenge and what is true against what is not true.  It is a matter of the word of God against false claims made in the Koran.

 It is not a divide and rule thing it is the Lord King Starjade is the only King of the Deuteronomy apocalyptic Castle and I don�t want to divide as I challenged you all.  And all those who come up against me always bite the dust.  Seems like you have so little to defend.

Hafsa you say:  All colors and shapes limit a being. Allah is limitless. Every place limits a being, Allah is everywhere. 

Starjade says:  Your moon god Hubal al�ilah is often seen in the night sky.  So we always know where that will be.  The Living White Sphere {which is the Living God} lives beyond the Veil of the Abyss in deep space and it is a separate entity from the rest of the Universe.  It is a collective individual and yet it is a light wave organism that moves around space under its own power. 

You speak in your imaginations that the living God is everything in existence and that is plainly not true.  The living God is Spherical in shape and white in colour and moves around freely separated from other things as a collective individual.  I last saw the Living White Sphere {which is the Living God of Abraham and of Moses and of Starjade} way across the other side of the vast Abyss.  After I flew out of its energies I watched it fly off at great speed and disappear  into the distance darkness of the Abyss. 

Clearly you know nothing about the living God. That is the price you pay for following false Prophets and their imaginations of what they think the living God is which can only ever be their own desires and wishes of what they presume that God is and that is not in anyway facts or reality.

__________________
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The Lord King and King of Kings. Starjade
The Crown of the Living White Sphere of Kether.

Starjade  

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Hafsa you claimed:  If you go and see like Dr. Maurice Bucaille did, you shall have to embrace Islam were you not astray.

Starjade says:  If you lock me in a Mosque with a thousand Muslims I will convert them using Islamic law.  My Sura 4:82 challenge goes out to all Muslims.  I am not one for listening to the babble of religious doctrines.

Hafsa you said:  You are so sinfully disrespectful. You�ll know and we�ll see where you end up in hell. Allah will tell you about the laws.

Starjade says:  Again I say that according to the laws of Deuteronomy Ch 19 v 15 I am not guilty of any crime of iniquity and sin.  So you make false accusations against me unjustly.  Stem your spite.  Do you make the claim that Muhammad is not bound by Islamic law.  Well do not forget that Muhammad was a descendant of Ishmael so it is claimed and that then makes Muhammad a Jew. 

All Jews even though they are a blasphemous people are supposed to be bound by Jewish law and so the law of Deuteronomy Ch 19 v 15 established the claims of Muhammad are not true.  He would have to face that fact and Islamic law that I have invoked says that all Muslims including Muhammad must reject what is found to not be true and so he would have no choice but to convert. 

False God worshippers and false Prophets are the ones who go to hell so then that is your fate not mine.  It can be established by the words of the living God Deuteronomy Ch 19 v 15 that I am not guilty of any crime of iniquity or sin.  I am the one who is bringing the law to the people. 

Hafsa you said:   (u mean your saying is a verse??)

Starjade says; Tsk Tsk stop butting in. Any paragraph to me is a verse.

__________________
The End of Times Doomsday Prophet
The Lord King and King of Kings. Starjade
The Crown of the Living White Sphere of Kether.

Starjade  

Senior Member



Joined: 28 February 2006
Location: United Kingdom
Online Status: Online
Religion: None
Posts: 392

Hafsa you said:  You must be aware that Warqa, used to live with his niece Khadija (R.A) converted to Christianity from paganism before she married Mohammad (s.a.w) or he was given the title of prophethood from Allah, the living God. And that he knew the signs of a prophet who was expected in Arabia and immediately recognized him!  But, you might not be aware that Warqa died soon after.

Starjade says;  Muslim Tradition maintains that Muhammad's seventh wife, Raihana, and his ninth wife, Safiyya, were Jewesses. Furthermore, his first wife, Khadija, had a Christian background. His eighth wife, Maryam, also belonged to a Christian sect. It is likely that these wives shared with him much of their Old and New Testament literature, their dramas, and their prophetic stories. Waraqi bin Nawful bin Asad al-uzza clearly was a close relative and they hardly had TV in those days so they were bound to chat about something and clearly religion would be discussed.  It would be hard for Muhammad to chat about the pagan moon god Hubal�al�ilah to Jews and Christians so it is clear what would be the main topic of those conversations. 

One of the first things taught to me by the Islamic experts who taught me all about Islam was the incident of the cave and the meeting with ole Waraqi.  They started from the beginnings as I requested.  Muhammad�s past life of moon worshipping wasn�t relevant to my conversations at that Time. 

I am aware of the claim that ole Christian Waraqi died not long after he was presented with the madness of Muhammad.  Ole Waraqi was a Christian believer and Christians believe Jesus is that Prophet to the Nation.  That is why they called Jesus the King of the Jews.  Ole Waraqi will have then known he was not telling Muhammad the truth for in his own Christians beliefs Waraqi believed Jesus was that prophet.  All Christians do.  And so he clearly was humouring Muhammad who took his word literally.  There is no proof Muhammad was a Prophet.  You are just believing your own Islamic propaganda.  What earthquakes did Muhammad foretell what volcanoes did Muhammad say would erupt. 

When asked about the End of Times apocalypse Muhammad said it would grow very dark.  Hahahahahahahahah (cough splutter) ooops there goes some more nose goo splattering across my computer screen at that funny statement. {sigh} I saw no Devil splattering out of my nostril. 

Naturally,  as I am the real Deuteronomy Doomsday Prophet I did better when I Spoke of that apocalypse and I have even drawn some maps of that grave future event.  I really just love to laugh at those novices who think they could walk in my shoes.  There is only one who can speak with authority on that apocalypse and it is the much loved Doomsday Prophet Starjade.  The Living Gods Chosen one.

__________________
The End of Times Doomsday Prophet
The Lord King and King of Kings. Starjade
The Crown of the Living White Sphere of Kether.

Starjade  

Senior Member



Joined: 28 February 2006
Location: United Kingdom
Online Status: Online
Religion: None
Posts: 392

Hafsa you ask:  (so who has sinned)

Starjade says;  The law of Deuteronomy established that I am not the one who has sinned. 

Hafsa you said:  They determine that if anyone commits a crime, then there must be more than one witnesses. It still does not mean that if someone alleges a truthful person (God�s true Prophets), he alone can be the judge, as you are trying to be.

Starjade says:  I just love that law of Deuteronomy Ch 19 v 15.  It is most logical and it is the actual word of the living God as brought down by Moses himself.

Many religious experts have come online with questions to debate and they all claimed they were something of an expert on that specific law and yet they could not see how that law could possibly be used to establish that I was a Prophet from God.  Let alone prove that I was that specific Deuteronomy Ch 18 v 15/18 Prophet that the living God promised Moses he would raise up.   

Clearly they were not as diligent as the much loved Deuteronomy Doomsday Prophet Starjade was,  And how stupid are your religious leaders and priests and imams to overlook the law of Deuteronomy Ch 19 v 15 that stares them all in the face throughout the passing of Time.  A law brought down by Moses himself from the living God and is therefore the actual word of the living God. 

Let me say briefly I was way back in 1995 speaking with the International Order of Kabbalists of 25 Circle Gardens Merton Park London.   I was offering to sell them the Keys to the Abyss.  I had already explained who I was to them and as I did not think they could just believe that so I also gave them some Prophecies of the future so that in the passing of Time the day would come when those Prophecies would come true and then they would realise that the unbelievable things I was speaking to them about here in the past were in fact all true. 

They replied saying they intended publishing some of my writings in their Kabbalist magazine that goes out world wide to millions of millions of Jews world wide and other people of course.  They did publish some of my writings in their 1995 December issue of the kabbalist magazine.  You can order copies and they would send you one probably.  They are only a couple of quid.  They sent me a copy of their magazine showing Prophecies made by other people including the Biblical Prophets. 

I was looking up those Biblical Prophecies in the Bible when whiles perusing through the pages of the Deuteronomy I came upon that law of Deuteronomy Ch 19 v 15 and I realised right away that law could actual establish for a fact that I was a genuine Prophet with a provable connection to the living God.  The Jews as you know have been waiting for a Prophet to come and gather them up from the four corners of the globe.  I saw that as a good way to mass Exodus people out of those future apocalyptic earthquake zones I had already forewarned about.  It was all that easy.  All I had to do to accomplish that task was to be able to prove that I was that very specific Deuteronomy Ch 18 v 15/18 prophet that the living God promised Moses he would raise up for that is who those Jews had been waiting for. 

So in my replies to the International Order of Kabbalists I brought that law of Deuteronomy Ch 19 v 15 to their attention and gave them more details of that apocalypse with a view to an Exodus of all Jews from the four corners of the globe.  Which as everyone already knows that is exactly what the Jews have been waiting for a Prophet from God to do. I did that way back in 1995. And I chose the International Order of Kabbalists to oversee that mass Exodus of Jews.  After all they already had the international connections with millions of other Jews world wide and their own printing presses  that I would need for such a project.  So it seemed to me to be the logical solution. 

I gave them the evidence that could establish that I am a genuine Prophet with a provable connection to the living God in accordance with the law of Deuteronomy Ch 19 v 15.  You can be absolutely certain I was genuine and sincere in all of my apocalyptic plans right up to the building of the Third Temple which was to be a building that would house all the Jews on the face of this Earth.  My plans ran deep. 

Now let me explain this to you as I explained it to the Jews and to the Christians and to the Muslims and others throughout this planet so you can follow this conclusion.

I have made it very clear and openly in the beginnings in all of my conversations world wide.  That I am The Crown of the Living White Sphere of Kether.   Kether is a Hebrew name for the Living God. 

I have openly stated that I am that very specific Deuteronomy Ch 18 v 15/18 Prophet that the living God promised Moses he would raise up.  I have also stated very clearly that I am also a son of the living God.  I have easily shown that Jesus and Muhammad�s are frauds and I make all these matters clear in the beginnings.  I am very open about those proclamations as can be seen. 

Now if that proclamation was not true then I would be guilty of the Crime of Blasphemy which is a Crime of Iniquity and Sin.  That Crime does carry a Death Sentence especially amongst some of the religious communities on this Planet. 

The natural course of the law of Deuteronomy Ch 19 v 15 is that is I am accused of Blasphemy I would be arrested and charged with Blasphemy.  Then the Priests and Judges who live in those Times will make diligent inquisition.  The law states two or three witnesses can be produced to act as witnesses for or against the accused. 

I have already named more than four witnesses to my power as a Prophet. I have already Prophesied to those witnesses of an earthquake that hit Britain explaining the path of that quake and naming it even to the Time of the day.  I have also prophesied an earthquake that hit Mexico and named the volcano Bogot� erupting all in sequence to each other and 1 year before those events took place.  Hence it can be proven by witness Testimonies I am certainly a Prophet who does Prophesise actual future grave events.

Whiles Prophesying the Mexican earthquake to more than four people.  I came upon a woman praying in the earthquake rubble not for herself, but for babies that were behind her.  I related her prayers to everyone in that room who are my witnesses.  And I sent that woman and those Babies help even though I was one year past to her grave event.  I explained to those witnesses what help I had sent. 

Overhearing the prayers of a woman praying to God in an earthquake 1 year into the future whiles I was one year in the past to that event.  That can prove by witness Testimonies that I am a Prophet with a provable connection to the living God. 

That woman and those babies were pulled out of that Mexican earthquake rubble many weeks after the Quake and to this very day those babies are called miracle babies.  Everyone agrees that it was not possible for them to survive without Divine intervention.  So I have also had a hand in a miracle right here on earth. 

The International order of Kabbalists are also named as my witnesses in that I brought that law of Deuteronomy Ch 19 v 15 to their attention whiles giving them details of a future apocalypse of earthquakes world wide that will cause mass extinction on this planet with a view to the Exodus of all Jews from the four corners of the globe.  Out of those other future earthquake zones. 

I did more than talk the talk but I have already walked that walk also.  I have done all these things for real and I was completely serious about all I had planned and said.  I still am.   Now then, there is only one Prophet on this Planet who is expected to come from the living God to gather up all those Jews from the four corners of the globe.  I can be established by Deuteronomy Ch 19 v 15 law as being that Prophet with a provable connection to the living God with a knowledge of a future apocalypse with a plan to mass Exodus those Jews from the four corners of the globe.  It is all logical and self concluding.  So when I say that I am that very specific Deuteronomy Ch 18 v 15/18 Prophet then you can be sure I can back my mouth up all the way with the word and the laws of the living God and prove it.

So then making accusations of Blasphemy against me would invoke that law of Deuteronomy Ch 19 v 15 and bring on such a trial and make me the most powerful man to ever walk the face of this Earth.  So, on all accounts I am certainly not guilty of any crime of iniquity or sin.   In fact I used my superior religious knowledge to attempt the saving of the lives of millions of millions of men, women and children all across the face of this globe with a plan for their future survival.  I have been here in the past attempting to answer their future prayers.  Which is why I make this stand against your false prophets and false God�s. 

Now if anyone accused me of Blasphemy.  Then the law of Deuteronomy Ch 19 v 15 does establish that accusation is unfounded.  It is established by the law of Deuteronomy Ch 19 v 15 that I am not guilty of any crime of iniquity or sin.  In fact all of my words would be established as being true.  Think about that long and deeply for all my words and Revelations will be established as being true.  Thus proving beyond any doubt that I am indeed that very specific Deuteronomy Ch 18 v 15/18 Prophet that the living God promised Moses he would raise up.  In fact that specific law does establish that I could only be that very specific long awaited Deuteronomy prophet.  I could be no other.  That is why I can talk the talk and walk the walk and all the false pretenders to my Throne just bite the dust.

__________________
The End of Times Doomsday Prophet
The Lord King and King of Kings. Starjade
The Crown of the Living White Sphere of Kether.