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Sura 4:82 A Challenge
for Islam. Posts 742. Views 6597.
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sheikhster
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Hahahahah... you sound so confiden5t,I thought you were gonna come up with some real logical errors. Dude, you cant check the authenticity of the Quran by comparing it with the bible.Coz everybody Knows the bible isnt correct.Its all stories reconstructed from memories of long gone pple,who were'nt even that good at remembering . Go
find an Algebra Book or sometin' and try counting up the numbers.... |
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Starjade
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Starjade
is the King of the Castle. Sheikhster you said: Hahahahah...you sound so confiden5t,I thought you were gonna come up with some real logical errors. Starjade says: I notice you and other Muslims are shirking replies because you are in no position to reply. Now that is logic. The Sura 4:82 of the Koran challenge states if just one error exists in the Koran then that is the proof the Koran does not come from God. Sheikhster you said: Dude, you cant check the authenticity of the Quran by comparing it with the bible.Coz everybody Knows the bible isnt correct.Its all stories reconstructed from memories of long gone pple,who were'nt even that good at remembering . Starjade scoffs: That is an old propaganda trick to say oh well we do not believe in the Bible so we shall ignore the few errors I mentioned that do not correspond with biblical text. But again you are in error. It is the Koran that is not correct and not from God as the Sura 4:82 admits. Without the Old and New Testaments Muhammad does not even have any claims to being the Deuteronomy Prophet or to satisfying the Prophecies of Isaiah after all they are Old Testament statements. Written long before Muhammad was even born. Now your propaganda just does not wash. Allow me to give you a lesson on Islam and its beliefs that you are clearly shirking. Sura 5:68 - Say: "O People of the Book! ye have no ground to stand upon unless ye stand fast by the Law (Torah), the Gospel (Injeel), and all the revelation that has come to you from your Lord." Sura 29:46 Muslims are told by Allah, not to question the authority of the scriptures of the Christians, saying, "And dispute ye not with the People of the Book, but say, "We believe in the revelation which has come down to us and in that which came down to you; Our Allah and your Allah is one; Suras 6:34, 6:115, 10:64 and 50:28,29 clearly says to Muslims, "No change can there be in the words of Allah" and that Allah cannot alter (or abrogate) his words." So the Torah and Christian Gospels are correct, because Allah did verify this fact -- this clearly makes the Muslim Qur'an false; because it contradicts Allah. - Sura 2:87 - And most certainly We gave Musa the Book and We sent apostles after him one after another; and We gave Isa, the son of Marium, clear arguments and strengthened him with the holy spirit, - Sura 3:48 - And He (Isa/Jesus) will teach him the Book and the wisdom and the Tavrat (Torah) and the Injeel (Christian Gospel). - Sura 3:50 - And a verifier of that which is before me of the Taurat (Torah) and that I may allow you part of that which has been forbidden t you, and I have come to you with a sign from your Lord therefore be careful of (your duty to) Allah and obey me. - Sura 5:44 - "Surely We revealed the Taurat (Torah/Bible Old Testament) in which was guidance and light", with it the prophets who submitted themselves.... - Sura 5:46 - And We sent after them in their footsteps Isa, son of Marium, verifying what was before him of the Taurat (Jewish Torah) and We gave him the Injeel (Christian Gospels) in which was guidance and light, and verifying what was before it of Taurat and a guidance and an admonition for those who guard (against evil). Sura 5.68 - Say: O followers of the Book! you follow no good till you keep up the Taurat and the Injeel and that which is revealed to you from your Lord; - Sura 6.154: Again, We gave the Book (Torah) to Musa to complete (Our blessings) on him who would do good (to others), and making plain all things and a guidance and a mercy, so that they should believe in the meeting of their Lord. - Sura 6.155: And this (Torah) is a Book We have revealed, blessed; therefore follow it and guard (against evil) that mercy may be shown to you. - Sura 29:46 "And dispute ye not with the People of the Book, but say, "We believe in the revelation which has come down to us and in that which came down to you; Our Allah and your Allah is one;
- Sura 32:23 - And certainly We gave the Book to Musa, so be not in
doubt concerning the receiving of it, and We made it a guide for the
children of Israel. - Sura 46:12 we are told.... "And before it the Book of Musa (Moses) (Torah) was a guide and a mercy: and this is a Book verifying (it) in the Arabic language that it may warn those who are unjust and as good news for the doers of good......" Muslims have no choice but to believe in the Christian Bible and the Apostles who wrote it. The Qur'an forbids anyone, on pain of shameful punishment, from making distinctions between the authority of the apostles and prophets of God, or from choosing between God's words. No one is permitted to believe in part and reject a part. Those who presume to do so, it says, are infidels in reality (Suras 4:150-152; 2:89; 42:13-15; 29:46-47). - In Sura 46:12 we are told.... "Yet before it there was the Book of Moses (Torah/Old Testement) which was an authority, and a mercy. This (the Qur'an) is the Book confirming it in the Arabic tongue....." Starjade says: Of course The Old Testament is the authority and that will bring you all back to the law of Deuteronomy Ch 19 v 15 which establishes Muhammad as a fraud and presumptuous to think he could speak in Gods name for you need witnesses Testimonies to establish a thing is true and Muhammad has no witnesses for his claims. Even the Sura 4:82 of the Koran stands against him. Sheikhster you said: Go find an Algebra Book or sometin' and try counting up the numbers.... Starjade
says: It is you who needs a new book. Whereas I am in my fields
of knowledge. |
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Starjade
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Now then why would I not
be confident. You bragged that old islamic propaganda brag |
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jimdi3 
Undergraduate Joined: 17 November 2005 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Religion: Christian(Catholic) Posts: 854 |
Starjade, I hope you don't mind but I have kept a copy of your 11th April 6.53am post It is a useful summary...thanks. Jim
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Starjade
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I
dont mind at all Jim I hope you find it informative. |
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Kayyam
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SHAKIR: Until when he reached the place where the sun set, he found it going down into a black sea, and found by it a people. We said: O Zulqarnain! either give them a chastisement or do them a benefit.
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Salamseeker
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In Surah Al Khaf ayat 86 it's talking about what Dhu al Qarnayn saw. According to him it looked like the sun was setting in the water. You will see the same effect if your standing by the seashore and watching the sunset it's lookes like the sun is sinking into the water.
Salamseeker
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| wesley Senior Member Joined: 19 January 2005 Location: United States Online Status: Offline Religion: Christian(Jehovah's Witness) Posts: 460 |
The sun does not "set".
The earth's rotation only makes it appear so.
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Starjade
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Starjade replies: I suggest you read the comments on the Bible that the Koran has spoken about regarding the authenticity of that book Jim was the wised to collect them so then why do you Muslims not obey the Koran that you have been bragging about. Realise that Islamic shirk of yours is not going to work. Ignoring any errors that are found in the Koran is a shirk. Tsk Tsk Tsk�.And I disagree the Old Testament is a history book. And the Old Testament is an historical document. The New Testament however is another thing entirely. The Old Testament was written during those Times. It is the Bibles with the Old and New Testament in it that were written by the Christians adding on their New Testament hundreds of years after its supposed characters were said to have died. But they copied the Old Testament which the Jews had in their possession otherwise the Jews would have made a fuss.
Kayyam you said: Starjade says: I do have lists of errors from that apolagetic paper of Joseph smith he is a clever scholar. And I have many other sources of errors found by Islamic scholars from all around the world. The list you speak of was not where I got the last list of errors from. As these are well known errors in the Koran and everyone is collecting those lists of errors and so they are going to sound the same as they are the same errors that exist in the Koran. So what. They are still errors found in the Koran. I also check on these errors I collect by putting the Sura into the search engine. The Koran is written also on the internet you know. I downloaded the Korans Exodus version not that long ago. Now that is one big error. The point is those errors do exist in the Koran and many scholars are very aware of those errors. The Sura 4:82 challenge was broken long before I came along. But Muslims do not like to admit those facts do they. However now they challenged me to challenge Islam and I am a whole new challenge that has caused Islam to bite the Dust for I am established by Deuteronomy Ch 19 v 15 law to be that very specific Deuteronomy Prophet that the living God promised Moses he would raise up. And I am established as that Prophet by religious law. A law that is considered to be the actual word of the living God. Of course I now have over 500 errors that exist for a fact in the Koran establishing that the Koran did not come from God as Muhammad has claimed. Which proves he was presumptuous to think he could speak in Gods name. Now if those massive lists of errors that you are aware of are not enough then try my own choices of 21 errors that exist in the Koran. It is only you Muslims as a matter of the shirk who asked for errors in the Koran with a Sura attached. Yet the Koran does not ask that in the Sura 4:82. http://www.geocities.com/end_of_times/surahfoureighthytwo.ht ml Kayyam you said: The Koran makes poetic use of metaphor. Much of it actually IS poetry. Thus if the metaphor here is interpreted you get: SHAKIR: Until when he reached the place where the sun set, he found it going down into a black sea, and found by it a people. We said: O Zulqarnain! either give them a chastisement or do them a benefit. Starjade says: I am also a poet of famed renowned. But the claim you make is not poetry. It is excuses. In sura 18:86 it states, "Until, when he reached the setting of the sun, he found it set in a spring of murky water: Near it he found a people: We said: O Dhu al Qarnayn! Either punish them,or treat them with kindness." There are many variations of this same text. Starjade continues: Now Muhammad was asked again and he said the sun set in a pool of muddy water and we all know that the Sun does not set in a pool of muddy water and so the Koran is not being scientifically sound then is it. So the Koran is in error. I am sure that Muhammad was having a laugh but then it is not true and the sun does not set any place it just gets eclipsed by the movement of the earth. Quran gives us further scientific knowledge by telling us that the stars were created by Allah as missiles to throw at the devils: Quran 67: 5 And We have (from of old) adorned the lowest heaven (sky) with lamps, and We have made such (Lamps as) missiles to drive away Satans� Quran 37: 6-8 We have indeed decorated the lower heaven (sky) with beauty (in) the stars, (for beauty) and for guard against all obstinate rebellious Satans. So they should not strain their ears in the direction of the Exalted Assembly but be cast away from every side. The
Koran says stars are nothing but missiles to throw at devils so that
they may not eavesdrop on the heavenly council. Now come alonmg Kayyam
none of this is true and even more stranger when the daughter of the
pagan moon god Hubal al�ilah was said to be three stars.
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Starjade
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Starjade
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Salamseeker you said: In Surah Al Khaf ayat 86 it's talking about what Dhu al Qarnayn saw. According to him it looked like the sun was setting in the water. You will see the same effect if your standing by the seashore and watching the sunset it's lookes like the sun is sinking into the water. Salamseeker Starjade says: Well now that is a tame absurd errors found in the Koran which we all agree is not true for the sun does not set as Muhammad has said in a pool of muddy water. I have oft sat here on the beach in (cough) sunny Blackpool watching the Sun go down. But I did not see it as sinking into the Sea. But instead thought of the Sun rising in other countries and the people there awakening from their sleep as well as those behind me as the night falls upon them. The question
asked of Muhammad was a curiosity as to where that Sun was going and
Muhammad replied into a pool of muddy water. End of story.
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Starjade
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There are some other errors than not of you consider. In what the Koran is saying. This is on the matter of Jesus. 11 Chapters of the Koran glorify Jesus and Muhammad believed in Jesus and yet the Prophet that Jesus has proclaimed himself as being is that specific Deuteronomy Ch 18 v 15/18 Prophet that the living God promised Moses he would raise up. That is why they call Jesus the King of the Jews. That Prophet to the Nation. - Sura 2:87 - And most certainly We gave Musa the Book and We sent apostles after him one after another; and We gave Isa, the son of Marium, clear arguments and strengthened him with the holy spirit, The name for Jesus in the Qur'an is given as "Issa." Yet this is incorrect. Issa is the Arabic equivalent of Esau, the name for the twin brother of Jacob. The correct Arabic name for Jesus would be Yesuwa, similar to the Hebrew Yeshuwa, yet the supposedly "all-knowing" Qur'an has no mention of it. Starjade continues: Look at this Sura more closely. - Sura 3:48 - And He (Isa/Jesus) will teach him the Book and the wisdom and the Tavrat (Torah) and the Injeel (Christian Gospel). Then at this Sura: - Sura 5:46 - And We sent after them in their footsteps Isa, son of Marium, verifying what was before him of the Taurat (Jewish Torah) and We gave him the Injeel (Christian Gospels) in which was guidance and light, and verifying what was before it of Taurat and a guidance and an admonition for those who guard (against evil). Sura 5.68 - Say: O followers of the Book! you follow no good till you keep up the Taurat and the Injeel and that which is revealed to you from your Lord; - Sura 6.154: Again, We gave the Book (Torah) to Musa to complete (Our blessings) on him who would do good (to others), and making plain all things and a guidance and a mercy, so that they should believe in the meeting of their Lord. - Sura 43:63 - When Jesus came with Clear Signs, he said: "Now have I come to you with Wisdom, and in order to make clear to you some of the (points) on which ye dispute: therefore fear Allah and obey me. I could go on but the point is Jesus claimed he was the Deuteronomy Prophet that the living God promised Moses he would raise up. Yet Muhammad has proclaimed himself as every Muslim knows as being that Deuteronomy prophet that the living God promised Moses he would raise up. Both Jesus and Muhammad are both claiming themselves to be that Deuteronomy Ch 18 v 15/18 prophet even though the living God only promised to raise up only one Prophet. Now then think of these Suras. - Sura 6.155: And this (Torah) is a Book We have revealed, blessed; therefore follow it and guard (against evil) that mercy may be shown to you. - Sura 46:12 we are told.... "And before it the Book of Musa (Moses) (Torah) was a guide and a mercy: and this is a Book verifying (it) in the Arabic language that it may warn those who are unjust and as good news for the doers of good......" So the Old Testament and the books of Moses are recognized with authority in the religion of Islam outranking even your own Sharia laws. Now look at the laws of Moses which Moses brought down from the living God which then makes them the actual words of the living God. The Old Testament law of Deuteronomy Chapter 19 Verse 15 is a witness law designed to determine matters of the truth especially about statements that could be blasphemous or sinful. I invoke this Old Testament law in showing I have a right to speak. Deuteronomy Chapter 19 verse 15. One witness shall not rise up against a man for any iniquity, or for any sin, in any sin that he sinneth: at the mouth of two witnesses, or at the mouth of three witnesses, shall the matter be established. Now then I have already made my accusations against Muhammad and Jesus. Now bring forwards two or three witnesses to the appearance of the Angel Gabriel at the birth of Jesus or at Gabriels appearance in the Cave or on the Mountain or any place. Show actual witnesses Testimonies to those who saw Jesus or Muhammad perform miracles or be tempted by the devil or flying off to heaven. In actual fact Muhammad and Jesus have no witnesses to their claims and as is shown by the law of Deuteronomy Ch 19 v 15 they are both guilty of crimes of iniquity and sin. They have no witnesses to their claims. Your religions are based on the writings and claims of people writing books. Not of any actual witness Testimonies. Muhammad believed in Jesus and the Koran and Muhammad glorify Jesus who claimed he was the very Prophet that Muhammad has since proclaimed himself to being. Now how can you not see what errors there are that exist in the Koran. The Sura 4:82 OF THE Koran itself said it all. Do they not consider the Koran with care for if it had come from any other than Allah then surely they would have found much discrepancy therein. Well you do not have to look very far do you. Whiles you speak of the setting Sun you overlook the more serious errors that exist in the Koran proving outright then that the Koran does not come from God. You Muslims have a long way to travel. But think on this. A friend of mine sat up all night wondering where the Sun went. The next day it dawned on him. Now that is poetic.
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hafsa
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OK here are the errors you think: 1. The first established error in the Koran: concerns the adoption of Moses by Pharaoh's wife (in sura 28:9). This story contradicts the Biblical Exodus 2:10 version, which states that it was Pharaoh's daughter who adopted Moses. One pharaoh was the father who adopted Moses p.b.u.h and one Pharaoh was his son who was born after Moses p.b.u.h was adopted. Biblical Exodus is not a valid reference. 2. The Qur'an says that the calf worshipped by the Israelites at mount Horeb was molded by a Samaritan (sura 20:85-87, 95-97). Yet the term 'Samaritan' was not coined until 722 B.C., which is several hundred years after the events recorded in Exodus. Thus, the Samaritan people could not have existed during the life of Moses, and therefore, could not have been responsible for molding the calf. Due to errors and missing links within Exodus, it cannot be a clear reference. One has to have some judgment. If what are saying is true, and also assuming that the writers and editors of Exodus were without any evil intention to hide or change history, I understand maybe Samaritan was a school of magic followers following the traditions of Samiri magician; and when they got reputable, they were mentioned. Seems logical. On the other hand, it is quite possible this was /is being deliberately played with. 3. In sura 18:86 it states, "Until, when he reached the setting of the sun, he found it set in a spring of murky water: Near it he found a people: We said: O Dhu al Qarnayn! Either punish them,or treat them with kindness." It is well known that only the superstitious in the age of Muhammad believed that the sun would set in a muddy spring. Well known!! How? 4. The name for Jesus in the Qur'an is given as "Issa." Yet this is incorrect. Issa is the Arabic equivalent of Esau, the name for the twin brother of Jacob. The correct Arabic name for Jesus would be Yesuwa, similar to the Hebrew Yeshuwa, yet the supposedly "all-knowing" Qur'an has no mention of it. It is just a twist of letters, which changes over time and place with different people�s pronunciation. With the entire bibles being revised over time and again this is understandable. We say Isa not Issa. Of course the Quraan did not change. And if it was so much �copied� from old or new Testaments, why make such obvious change. Why were they not safely followed? 5. In sura 7:124 we find Pharoah admonishing his sorcerers because they believe in the superiority of Moses's power over theirs. Pharoah threatens them with cutting off their hands and feet on opposite sides, and then says they will all die on the cross. In the Old Testament which is the source of this data of the Magicians the magicians were never threatened with death at all it only makes those claims in the Koran. Just a matter of relying on one of the two sources, Old Testement or the Qur�an. One altered over time, one is not. 6. Meteors, and even stars are said to be missiles fired at eavesdropping Satans and jinn who seek to listen to the reading of the Qur'an in heaven, and then pass on what they hear to men in suras 37:6-10; 55:33-35; 67:5; & 72:6-9. Can we believe indeed that Allah throws meteors, which are made up of carbon dioxide or iron-nickel, at non- material devils who steal a hearing at the heavenly council? And how do we explain the fact that many of earths meteors come in showers which consequently travel in parallel paths. Are we to thus understand that these parallel paths imply that the devils are all lined up in rows at the same moment? Allah probably orders this to be done rather than doing it Himself. Meteors made up of hot metal or fire can surely disturb the jinns composed of fire and even the wave pattern of communication. Whether they are lined up or not, can also not be rejected, for neither you nor I have seen them. However they are prevented in heavens not earth.
037.006 Lo! We have adorned the lowest heaven with an ornament, the
planets; 7. King Solomon was taught the speech of birds (sura 27:16) and the speech of ants (sura 27:18-19). In his battles, he used birds extensively to drop clay bricks on Abrah's army (sura 105:3-4), and marched them in military parades (sura 27:17). He also used them to bring him messages of powerful queens (sura 27:20-27). Note: According to the historical record, Abrah's army was not defeated by bricks dropped on their head. Rather, they withdrew their attack on Mecca after smallpox broke out among the troops (Guillame, Islam, pgs.21ff). King Solomon (if you mean H Sulaiman p.b.u.h) did not attack Abraha�s army. If you have any sense of time Abraha came to attack Ka�aba near the time of Our Prophet�s birth (55 days before), then he got this fate. Birds containing clay bricks were sent by Allah. Few other events like small pox and boils also erupted in the same year, but they were not the cause of Abraha�s defeat. You may read some more versions of history than a fake week & invalid one. It�s a very interesting story. But I guess the likes of you would feel bad by it. 8. - In Sura 2:249 Muhammad confuses the persons of Saul (Talut) and Gideon. See: Judges 7:4-7 Qur�an sent by Allah contains no confusions. You may be confused or trying to create confusions knowingly. 9. - In Sura 26:54 the Israelites were said to be "a scanty band" (small band); vastly inferior to the Egyptians. But in Exodus 1:7-10 the Egyptian king said to his people that the Israelites had become "more and mightier than we". Exodus 1:9 speaks of the Hebrews as multitudes. In this Aayat the first person is Firon (Pharoh) who was encouraging his party. Any way, this is again a question of reference to Qur�an, the Devine Book, or Exodus. 10. - The Koran confused the sister of Moses by implication (Miriam) with Mary, the mother of Jesus 3 times. These two women actually lived about 1500 years apart. The entire Chapter 19 is devoted to Mary (Maryam) the mother of Jesus in the Qur'an. Sura 19:28, "O sister of Aaron! Thy father was not a man of evil, nor thy mother a woman unchaste!" Sura 66.12 calls Mary 'daughter of lmran". lmran is the Arabic form of the Hebrew Amram mentioned in Numbers 26.59 as the father of "Aaron, Moses and Miriam." The title "sister of Aaron" is given to Miriam in Exodus 15.20. Sura 3.35-36, The wife of Amram said, "My Lord, I have dedicated (the baby) in my belly to You, totally, so accept from me. You are Hearer, Omniscient." Maryam was the mother of Prophet Isa pbuh all right. However, it is clear to muslims that in Sura 19:28, "O sister of Aaron..�does not indicate that she was directly a sister of Haroon pbuh who was at Musa�s (pbuh) time. People were referring to the family she belonged, family (generation) of Prophet Haroon pbuh, for his chastity. That is why the further reference is towards her parents. A slightly weaker but yet reasonable argument is there was another pious person Haroon in her family during her era whose worship was comparable to her; he is called her brother. The confusion occurs not in Quran but continuously switching languages and taking a Book written after centuries as reference. 11. - How many angels were talking to Mary? When the Qur'an speaks about the annunciation of the birth of Jesus to the virgin Mary, Sura 3:42,45 speaks about angels (plural) while it is only one in Sura 19:17-21. The Christian Bible clearly indicated one angel; "In the sixth month, the angel Gabriel was sent by God to a town in Galilee called Nazareth," Luke 1:2 �In the sixth month, the angel Gabriel was sent by God� does not mean 1. this was the only time angels spoke to her. 2. that there are no angels of mercy, or Kiraam ul Katibeen (angels who are on our shoulders to write each good and bad that we do) or other angels who descend where God�s (Allah�s) name is being taken. Infact we believe that angels spoke to her about it slightly earlier and then when she had reconciled with it, did Angel Gibrael went to her and cast the spirit of Hazrat Isa (Jesus) pbuh. Not as late as �sixth month� was she kept unaware.
005.110 When Allah saith: O Jesus, son of Mary! Remember My favour unto thee and unto thy mother; how I strengthened thee with the holy Spirit, so that thou spakest unto mankind in the cradle as in maturity; and how I taught thee the Scripture and Wisdom and the Torah and the Gospel; � At what age does a child get mature? 13. - Do you remember the evil Persian Haman who conspired to kill all the Jews during the time of Esther in the Babylonian captivity (about 500 BC). In the Koran, Muhammad incorrectly taught that this wicked man Haman was the prime minister of the Egyptian Pharaoh (Firon) in Moses' time (1450 BC). See Suras 28:4-6, 28:38, 29:39, 40:23-24,and 40:36-37. Hamaan was an ally or a minister working under of Firon and is mentioned as:
040.023 And verily We sent Moses with Our revelations and a clear warrant
Most scholars say Qaroon was Moses� father�s brother�s son (cousin). Hazrat Moosa�s father�s name was Imran Bin Qabees and Qaroon�s father�s name was Yasher Bin Qabees. Qaroon was a very rich man as he was a special man for Firon. Again, this cannot be compared to what someone might have remembered. 14. Throughout the Qur'an--Nimrod and Abraham, Haman and Moses, Mary and Aaron, the tower of Babel (2500 BC) and Pharaoh were all pictured as living and working together. Moses and the flood are also incorrectly found together. Muhammad thought these all happened at the same time. Muhammad was always mixing people together in the Qur'an who did not live at the same time. See Suras 21:51-76; and 29:15-16. You don�t explain well. Nimrod and Hazrat Ibraheem p.b.u.h are put in one bracket of time while Hazrat Mosa (Moses) p.b.u.h, his brother Hazrat Haroon pbuh (Aaron as you may call) and Firon, Qaroon (Korah) and Hamaan are put in another. Besides many Prophets are discussed here, as it a Sura Anbia (Prophets). 021.048 And We verily gave Moses and Aaron the Criterion (of right and wrong) and a light and a Reminder for those who keep from evil.
021.051 And We verily gave Abraham of old his proper course, and We were Aware of him,
021.069 We said: O fire, be coolness and peace for Abraham, 029.039 And Korah, Pharaoh and Haman! Moses came unto them with clear proofs (of Allah's Sovereignty), but they were boastful in the land. And they were not winners (in the race). How and from where are you saying that Moses and flood are put together? Also the exact family of King Nimrood is traced back in muslim books as Nimrood bin Kan�an bin Saam bin Nooh (Noah). He is said to hold the throne of Babul, (but both not directly in Quraan) 15. - What about Noah's (Nuh) son? According to Sura 21:76, Noah and his family is save3d from the flood, and Suras 29:15 and 37:76-77 confirms that his seed survived. But Sura 11:42-43 reports that Noah's son drowns. He did not have only one son. That particular son who made fun of His making a ship and did not support him drowned. His other sons who were in the ship with their wives were Haam, Saam, and Yafis 16. - Sura 14:37, says Abraham lived in the valley of Mecca (Muslim Sacred House). The Bible says he lived in Hebron, Israel. (Genesis 13:18, 23:2, 35:27) Hazrat Ibraheem p.b.u.h lived with his first wife Sarah in Palestine and left with his second wife and son Hazrat Ismaeel p.b.u.h for Macca upon the instruction of Allah. He left them and came back to them after some time, whereby he rebuilt Kaaba with his son, and also the event of sacrifice took place. I bet you know. 17. - Sura 9:30 mistakenly claims that the Jews believed that Ezra was the Son of God, the Messiah, just as Christians claim for Jesus. No Jews have ever believed this. One must find that out from jews themselves, and that too those who know exactly and can tell correctly about past. How this happened is as under: When Amalqa came into power, overthrew the Jews killing their scholars, H. Uzair pbuh cried a lot. He was given an indication to go on a particular stream and eat whatever was given to him. When he did, he was given papers that he ate. When he came back to people he spoke Torah. They brought some old scriptures of it from caves and compared it to what he was saying. As it was identical, some of them started believing he was God�s son. 18. - Sura 6:74, says Abraham father's name was Azar. The Bible says it was Terah (Genesis 11:27). How can Muhammad claim he verified the Torah which came first as true, yet differ with the facts in the Torah? The Quraan is written by Allah. If people make mistakes, which they do over time, Allah corrects them. Here the name of Ibrahim�s father was not necessary to give. However it is mentioned for the above reason only. �Muhammad claim he verified the Torah�, but the real divine part. 19. - Islam says it was Ishmael that was nearly sacrificed on the mountain rather than Isaac as both the Torah and Christian Gospels say. Islam says that Hagar was the legitimate wife (and not a concubine) of Abraham, rather than Sarah; so Ishmael was the heir of Abraham. But wait! Muhammad had already attested to the Bible and Torah as being correct. Then why these huge errors? Of note: After Muhammad's death, the Meccans (Waraquah) changed the name Isaac in Suras 2:125 and 127 for the name Ishmael and invented the story about Abraham taking Ishmael to their black rock in Mecca, so that pilgrims would continue to visit Mecca. Remember: the real divine part of the divine books. Not inclusive of the errors and interjections of people with vested interests before and after our Prophet Mohammad (SalAllaho Alehe Wassalam.). Also there was no human amendment in Quran�s text after the physical demise of our Prophet (s.a.w), nor could it be. 20. Abrogation? "The words of the Lord are perfect in truth and justice; there is NONE who can change His words" (Sura 6:115). Also see Suras 6:34, 10:64, and 50:28,29. But then Allah (or Muhammad?) sees the need to exchange some of them for "better ones" (Suras 2:106, 16:101). And it is not for ignorant people to question Allah because of such practices! Let us Reason. How can a divine revelation be improved upon? If divine, would it not have been perfect from the start? The Divine Will of Allah can however be to first bring people to one level and later to the next. In fact if a human had written this book, with a plot of claiming false prophethood, he would have avoided this. But Allah does as He wishes. Had it not been divine, then the revelations would not have continued for 23 years without inconsistency. If I write a book, I will try to finish it as soon as possible or the text will loose the constancy of purpose or spirit. Also the person Warqah Bin Nofil had died long before Mohammad (S.A.W). 21So the Torah and Christian Gospels are correct, because Allah did verify this fact -- this clearly makes the Muslim Qur'an is false; because it contradicts Allah. Absolutely wrong. The old and new Testaments that Jews and Christians have, contain not only the word of God that were revealed upon the Prophets, but also the words of men written long after, and continuously modified by every kind of person through ages. Hence, it is far from what Allah verified. Even at the time when Quran was revealed changes were present. And it was not that we were supposed to believe these books entirely. It is metaphorical in a sense that we�d have believed them had they been accurate, as the old reference of what God demanded people of that time. However God did not take charge of saving them from changes as He has for Quraan. The reason is that this is the ultimate message to mankind. We are only to believe that in them is likely there is some part which may be the word of God. That we respect. The sources through which that can be verified are 1. Glorious Quraan 2. Sahih Hadeeth. 22. Face Mecca while praying. (Sura 2:144). Face Jerusalem while praying. Originally Muhammad instructed Muslims to face Jerusalem when praying; probably because� The Prophet s.a.w kept his face towards Jerusalum (in Madina) which was the headquater of Bani Israel, who were given Imamat (leadership). After a while this status was taken from them and given to Prophet Mohammad s.a.w indicating that he is the Imam for both Bani Israel and Bani Ismael, just like their forefather Ibrahim, whose Qibla was Kabatullah of Mecca. The
people with iman were thereby checked, that they obeyed Allah�s Prophet
without prejudice. Also weather the idols were there or not is irrelevant
as then people were not saying prayers in Kaaba itself, and did whatever
was necessary at that time as per Allah�s command.
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Starjade trys to quote Ayaat of Quraan sounding or meaning different: Sura 5:68 - Say: "O People of the Book! ye have no ground to stand upon unless ye stand fast by the Law (Torah), the Gospel (Injeel), and all the revelation that has come to you from your Lord." it is: 005.068 Say O People of the Scripture! Ye have naught (of guidance) till ye observe the Torah and the Gospel and that which was revealed unto you from your Lord. That which is revealed unto thee (Muhammad) from thy Lord is certain to increase the contumacy and disbelief of many of them. But grieve not for the disbelieving folk This Ayat refers to Jews and Christians and some others on whom revelations had come and who are now without a base. One has to start reading some 15 Ayaat before this one to really get to the point. Sura 29:46 Muslims are told by Allah, not to question the authority of the scriptures of the Christians, saying, "And dispute ye not with the People of the Book, but say, "We believe in the revelation which has come down to us and in that which came down to you; Our Allah and your Allah is one; it is : 029.046 And argue not with the People of the Scripture unless it be in (a way) that is better, save with such of them as do wrong; and say: We believe in that which hath been revealed unto us and revealed unto you; our God and your God is One, and unto Him we surrender. Clearly guiding that until one has to face those who are set to do wrong, one must politely discuss the agreements not the disagreements. - Sura 5:44 - "Surely We revealed the Taurat (Torah/Bible Old Testament) in which was guidance and light", with it the prophets who submitted themselves.... - Sura 5:46 - And We sent after them in their footsteps Isa, son of Marium, verifying what was before him of the Taurat (Jewish Torah) and We gave him the Injeel (Christian Gospels) in which was guidance and light, and verifying what was before it of Taurat and a guidance and an admonition for those who guard (against evil). - Sura 46:12 we are told.... "And before it the Book of Musa (Moses) (Torah) was a guide and a mercy: and this is a Book verifying (it,the real one) in the Arabic language that it may warn those who are unjust and as good news for the doers of good......" it has to be read in the context:
- 046.008 Or
say they: He hath invented it ? Say (O Muhammad): If I have invented
it, still ye have no power to support me against Allah. He is Best Aware
of what ye say among yourselves concerning it. He sufficeth for a witness
between me and you. And He is the Forgiving, the Merciful. Hence what is being said is quite different from what you are trying to imply. Muslims have no choice but to believe in the Christian Bible and the Apostles who wrote it (wrong) . The Qur'an forbids anyone (even you), on pain of shameful punishment, from making distinctions between the authority (we�d say honesty) of the apostles and prophets of God, or from choosing between God's (actual) words. No one is permitted to believe in part and reject a part (of the confirmed truth as required). tarjade says: Of course The Old Testament is the authority and that will bring you all back to the law of Deuteronomy Ch 19 v 15 which establishes Muhammad as a fraud and presumptuous to think he could speak in Gods name.... Starjade says: It is you who needs a new book. Whereas I am in my fields of knowledge. All you need to do is to go back to Ayat 046.010 noted above.
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But I do know many things about the religion of Islam. 
Are you going to shirk away from these other errors by deceptive
propaganda shirking. You really should go and tap your Imam on the shoulder
and dare him to come online and face me for it appears you are way out
of your depth. 
