bible_jesus_x_fiction; bible_jesus_x_fiction_ii

2bible_jesus_xfiction; 2a_bible_jesus_xfiction

2b_bible_jesus_xfiction

a must read!

 

bismillaahir 
rahmaanir rahiim 
in the name of allah, 
rahman, rahim

 

 YA ALI MADAD

 

   'the supposed historical resurrection'     
versus
'so well authenticated by evidence'

 

His Royal Highness Prince Aga Khan III

         Reincarnation or Companionship on High? 

   An article by Imam Hazrat Mowlana Sultan Mahomed Shah (s.a.s.) 

Source: Africa Ismaili Kisumu Supplement, March 28, 1969 

The Christian burial ceremony and the prayers then said by the presiding ecclesiastics refer to resurrection in a way that implies some kind of similarity with

       THE SUPPOSED HISTORICAL  RESURRECTION OF CHRIST THREE DAYS AFTER HIS DEATH. 

      There is the undoubted implication in the Burial Service that a similar resurrection will in time be the fate of those who die in Christianity. 
   
Just as the events of Easter Week become part of Christianity and the hope of men, so the death-bed scene of our Holy Prophet, so well authenticated by evidence, took place in the presence of his two cousins, Ali and Ibn-Abbas, his wives, and above all, his future great successor, the Caliph Omar, then one of his leading companions. All this evidence is exactly the same. 

The last words of the Prophet were "Companionship on High."

           Monday, 22 October 2001

The Aga Khan: "I am amazed by the ignorance of Islam"

PARIS - He is one of the spiritual leaders of Islam who best knows the land and the people of Central Asia, the area which holds the world in suspense. He is the Imam, the religious leader and guide of the Ishamilite, whose communities are spread in various countries of Asia and Africa, but also in Europe and in North America. Throughout Iran, Pakistan, Tajikistan, Afghanistan and West China, there are more than five million Ishmaelite. ......

"I think that monotheistic religions, having an analogous belief in an only God, should and must dialogue. The three religions which Abraham inspired have many more common facets than those which divide them. 

Religion must be a means by which to affirm the ethical significance of existence, irrelevant of one's faith. If we want social development, to meet halfway, to dialogue, peace, we cannot neglect ethics and the impact which education and culture have on social growth." 

[emphasis added, navali]

 

  Islam is for muslims *al--Haqq — the Truth* 

Dhālika Bi'anna Allāha Huwa Al-Ĥaqqu Wa 'Annahu Yuĥyī Al-Mawtaá Wa 'Annahu `Alaá Kulli Shay'in Qadīrun (22:6).    Dhālika Bi'anna Allāha Huwa Al-Ĥaqqu Wa 'Anna Mā Yad`ūna Min Dūnihi Huwa Al-Bāţilu Wa 'Anna Allāha Huwa Al-`Alīyu Al-Kabīru (22:62).

That is because Allah, He is the Truth and because He quickeneth the dead, and because He is Able to do all things(22:6).     That is because Allah, He is the True, and that whereon they call instead of Him, it is the false, and because Allah, He is the High, the Great (22:62).

 

CRITICAL EVIDENCE 
the new testament authenticates 
the gospel of barnabas 
& the holy qur'an 4:157,158

 

DID HE [THE BIBLICAL GOD - ELOHIM], PAY HOMAGE TO ALLAH AND ALSO WORSHIP HIM?

This is a representation of the arrival in BACA [Psalms 84:1-6 -- SEE BELOW] of Haji - PILGRIM YHWH ELOHIM  long before the time of Christ. Some time in the distant past, YHWH ELOHIM had just finished his migration from heaven, babel, salem, sumer, mesopotamia and babylon, the lands of his origin.

 

where was jesus crucified?
in the great city of babylon?
in the great city sodom? 
in the great CITY OF EGYPT? 
jerusalem? 
QUMRAN? 
or rome? 

 the bible 
jesus christ 
' being made a curse for us' -- 'sinful flesh' & 'FORSAKEN'

 

the forlorn christian PILGRIMAGE continues long after jesus

they have no answers or precise spiritual guidance

shalem - salem - peace - islam

Eli   WITH   DAVID

&

ELI   WITH   JESUS

 

jesus invoked 'MY GOD --ELI' in the divine realm. he will return with a NEW NAME! 

Psalms 22:1 (KJVSL) A Psalm of David  My God <'el>, my God <'el>, why hast thou forsaken  me? 

Matthew 27:46 (KJVSL) And about the ninth hour  Jesus <Iesous> cried with a loud voice , saying , ELI <ELI>, ELI <ELI>,  lama <lama> sabachthani <sabachthani>? that <toutesti> is to say, MY <MOU> GOD <THEOS> MY <MOU> GOD <THEOS> why hast thou forsaken me? 2241. eli Search for G2241 in KJVSL hli eli ay-lee' of Hebrew origin (410 with pronominal suffix); my God:-- Eli. 410. 'el Search for H410 in KJVSL la 'el ale shortened from 352; strength; as adjective, mighty; especially the Almighty (but used also of any deity):--God (god), X goodly, X great, idol, might(-y one), power, strong. Compare names in "-el."

Revelation 3:12 (KJVSL) Him that overcometh will I make a pillar in the temple of  MY <MOU> GOD <THEOS>, ELI <ELI>, and he shall go no more out and I will write upon him the name of  MY <MOU> GOD <THEOS>, ELI <ELI>,  and the name of the city of  MY <MOU> GOD <THEOS>, ELI <ELI>,  which is new Jerusalem , which cometh down out of heaven from MY <MOU> GOD <THEOS>: ELI <ELI>,  and I will write upon him MY <MOU> NEW <KAINOS> NAME <ONOMA>.

easton's bible dictionary   

        Eli ascent, the high priest [IMAM] when the ark was at Shiloh [PEACE--ISLAM] (1Sa 1:3,9). He was the first of the line of Ithamar, AARON'S fourth son (1Ch 24:3; comp. 2Sa 8:17), who held that office -- [imamate in islam.] 

did the faithful christians fail to understand their own scripture?  

 

continued

scripture text altered

greek text and strong's numerical value

in the original greek version, there is no conjunction 'kaiv Kai (kahee)' between  the 2 words, 'ANEILON KREMASANTEV'. they are not even separated by a comma.

ANEILON  KREMASANTEV -- SLEW  HANGING 

kaiv Kai (kahee); Conjunction, Strong's Number #: 2532

               and, also, even, indeed, but

whom  [3739]      hos

slew      [337]     anaireo

hanged  [2910]     kremannumi

COMPARE

1.     acts 10:39 
whom [3739]  they <???, add -  navali] 
slew [337] AND <????, add-  navali>
hanged [2910] [kjv]

2.    addition - pronoun -  'him'

THE ACTS 10:39 They did away with Him, hanging Him. <????, navali>

tfg: (39) whom they SLEW, HANGING him.

the context and connotation changed

gill nt: whom the Jews put to death; .... and who not content with any death, desired he might be crucified, or hanged on a tree; partly because of the pain and torture of it, and partly because OF THE SHAME AND IGNOMINY THAT ATTENDED IT; 

compare

3,    modern kjv: Ac 10:39  whom they killed _B_Y_ hanging. 

King James Version (KJV)

Acts - Chapter 10

English		Strong's	Greek (Root form)	Tense
(Click on any item below for Concordance)				(Click)
And		[2532]	kai
we		[2249]	hemeis
are		[2070]	esmen
witnesses		[3144]	martus
of all things		[3956]	pas
which		[3739]	hos
he did		[4160]	poieo
both		[5037]	te
in		[1722]	en
the land		[5561]	chora
of the Jews,		[2453]	Ioudaios
and		[2532]	kai
in		[1722]	en
Jerusalem;		[2419]	Hierousalem
whom		[3739]	hos
they slew		[337]	anaireo
and hanged		[2910]	kremannumi
on		[1909]	epi
a tree:		[3586]	xulon

compare

(Greek/English Interlinear (tr) NT)  - Textus Rec.) Acts 10:39 kai hmeiV esmen martureV pantwn wn epoihsen en te th cwra twn ioudaiwn kai en ierousalhm on aneilon kremasanteV epi xulou

Interlinear Bible  kai; hJmei'ß mavrtureß pavntwn wJ'n ejpoivhsen e~n te th'/ cwvra/ tw'n #Ioudaivwn kai; ÍejnÑ #Ierousalhvm: oJ;n kai; ajnei'lan kremavsanteß ejpi; xuvlou.

Acts 10:39 kai <2532> {AND} hmeiV <2249> {WE} esmen <2070> (5748) {ARE} martureV <3144> {WITNESS} pantwn <3956> {OF ALL THINGS} wn <3739> {WHICH} epoihsen <4160> (5656) {HE DID} en <1722> {BOTH} te <5037> {IN} th <3588> {THE} cwra <5561> {COUNTRY} twn <3588> {OF THE} ioudaiwn <2453> {JEWS} kai <2532> {AND} en <1722> {IN} ierousalhm <2419> {JERUSALEM;} on <3739> {WHOM} aneilon <337> (5627) {THEY PUT TO DEATH} kremasanteV <2910> (5660) {HAVING HANGED [HIM]} epi <1909> {ON} xulou <3586> {A TREE.}

compare

compare BiblePro Acts 10:39 (TR)  kai; hJmei'ß mavrtureß pavntwn wJ'n ejpoivhsen e~n te th'/ cwvra/ tw'n #Ioudaivwn kai; ÍejnÑ #Ierousalhvm: oJ;n kai; ajnei'lan kremavsanteß ejpi; xuvlou.		SwordSearcher 4 version 1:  Acts 10:39 (TR) kai hmeiV esmen martureV pantwn wn epoihsen en te th cwra twn ioudaiwn kai en ierousalhm on ANEILON KREMASANTEV epi xulou		GREEK NEW TESTAMENT ACTS10:39 kai hmeis martures pantwn wn epoihsen en te th cwra twn ioudaiwn kai | | [en] | ierousalhm on kai aneilan kremasantes epi xulou
SwordSearcher 4  Acts 10:39 (KJVSL) And <kai> we are witnesses of all things which he did both in the land of the Jews  and <kai> in Jerusalem whom they slew <anaireo> and<???> hanged <kremannumi> on a tree <xulon>:		compare BiblePro  Ac 10:39 And <2532> we are witnesses of all things which he did both in the land of the Jews, and <2532> in Jerusalem; whom they slew <337> and <????> hanged <2910> on  a tree:		compare BiblePro version 2:  Ac 10:39 kai hmeiV martureV pantwn wn epoihsen en te th cwra twn ioudaiwn kai ierousalhm on kai aneilan kremasanteV epi xulou

so which of these versions could we really trust when the bible is thrown at the mercy of its translators?

the bible

JESUS
'the reality or an illusion'

'And now I am no more in the world' 
* 
and I come to thee
*
'While I was with them in the world' 
* 
And now come I to thee
*
'and these things I speak in the world' 

               [see details below]

however, if the above is true then which human part or a spiritual portion of jesus christ was actually  'CRUCIFIED' on the cross and 'HANGED' on the tree?

says allah

1.    'Wa Ma Qataluhu - they slew <anaireo> him not

2.    Wa Ma Salabuhu - nor crucified <prospegnumi> him

3.    Wa Lakin Shubbiha Lahum - but it appeared so unto them

4.    Wa Ma Qataluhu Yaqinaan (4:157).  they slew <anaireo> him not for certain'

Wa Qawlihim 'Inna Qatalna Al-Masiha `Isaá Abna Maryama Rasula Allahi Wa Ma Qataluhu Wa Ma Salabuhu Wa Lakin Shubbiha Lahum Wa 'Inna Al-Ladhina Akhtalafu Fihi Lafi Shakkin Minhu Ma Lahum Bihi Min `Ilmin 'Illa Attiba`a Až-Žanni Wa Ma Qataluhu Yaqinaan (4:157).  And because of their saying: We slew the Messiah, Jesus son of Mary,  Allah's messenger -  1.    they slew <anaireo> him not  2.    nor crucified <prospegnumi> him,  but it appeared so unto them;  and lo! those who disagree concerning it  are in doubt thereof; they have no knowledge thereof  save pursuit of a conjecture;  3.   they slew <anaireo> him not for certain (4:157). Bal Rafa`ahu Allahu 'Ilayhi Wa Kana Allahu `Azizaan Hakimaan (4:158). But Allah took him up unto Himself. Allah was ever Mighty, Wise. Wa 'In Min 'Ahli Al-Kitabi 'Illa Layu'uminanna Bihi Qabla Mawtihi Wa Yawma Al-Qiyamati Yakunu `Alayhim Shahidaan (4:159). There is not one of the People of the Scripture but will believe in him before his death, and on the Day of Resurrection he will be a witness against them

4.157:
C663. The end of the life of Jesus on earth is as much involved in mystery as his birth, and indeed the greater part of his private life, except the three main years of his ministry. It is not profitable to discuss the many doubts and conjectures among the early Christian sects and among Muslim theologians. The Orthodox Christian Churches make it a cardinal point of their doctrine that his life was taken on the Cross, that he died and was buried, that on the third day he rose in the body with his wounds intact, and walked about and conversed, and ate with his disciples, and was afterwards taken up bodily to heaven. 

This is necessary for the theological doctrine of blood sacrifice and vicarious atonement for sins, which is rejected by Islam. 

But some of the early Christian sects did not believe that Christ was killed on the Cross. 

The Basilidans believed that some one else was substituted for him.  

The Docetae held that Christ never had a real physical or natural body, but only an apparent or phantom body, and that his Crucifixion was only apparent, not real. 

The Marcionite Gospel (about A.D. 138) denied that Jesus was born, and merely said that he appeared in human form. The Gospel of St. Barnabas supported the theory of substitution on the, Cross. 

The Quranic teaching is that Christ was not crucified nor killed by the Jews,

notwithstanding certain apparent circumstances which produced that illusion in the' minds of some of his enemies: that disputations, doubts, and conjectures on such matters are vain; and that he was taken up to Allah (see next verse and note). Yusuf Ali's Commentary from QuranTrans

[emphasis added, navali]

can we prove the above from the the bible?

let the bible speak for itself

REV 11:8 And their dead bodies shall lie in the street of the GREAT CITY, which spiritually is called SODOM and EGYPT, where also our Lord was _ c_r_u_c_i_f_i_e_d.  

Where was -- 'the GREAT CITY' in the biblical times?

1.    Revelation 17:18 And the woman which thou sawest is that great city, which reigneth over the kings of the earth.

Re 17:18
Verse 18. And the woman which thou sawest. Re 17:3.
Is that great city. Represents that great city.

Which reigneth over the kings of the earth. Rome would of course be understood by this language in the time of John, and all the circumstances, as we have seen, combine to show that Rome, in some form of its dominion, is intended. Even the name could hardly have designated it more clearly, and all expositors agree in supposing that Rome, either as Pagan or as Christian, is referred to

if the above interpretation is correct then was jesus crucified in the great city of sodom, egypt and/or rome?  please note that 'sodom' was a city whereas egypt was a country. 

2.    Revelation 14:8 (KJV) And there followed another angel, saying, Babylon is fallen, is fallen, that great city, Revelation 16:19 (KJV) And the great city was divided into three parts, and the cities of the nations fell: and great Babylon came in remembrance before God, Revelation 18:10 (KJV)  Alas, alas, that great city Babylon, that mighty city! for in one hour is thy judgment come.

was jesus crucified in the great city of babylon?

we must also note that all 4 gospels have asserted plainly that Jesus was crucified in Calvary or Golgotha, i.e., a place of skull. 

Where was that place? 

Was it the one indicated at: 
a.     Rev 11:8 
b.     or Heb 13:12,13 
c.     or Deut 23:10-12? 
d.     Was it within Jerusalem 
e.     or just outside the city limits as in qumran?

well let’s see what a world renowned scholar and visitor to “that place” had to say in this regard. 

She says: The Book of Revelation speaks of “the great city which is spiritually called SODOM and EGYPT, WHERE THE LORD WAS CRUCIFIED.’ QUMRAN WAS NEAR THE ANCIENT SITE OF SODOM ...... Qumran COULD also be called “Egypt” when the Therapeutae met there, as has been seen. [Jesus & The riddle of the Dead Sea Scrolls, by Barbara Thiering, 1992 - pp. 105].

although the above is nothing more than a conjecture, it is clear that she was thinking about a place outside jerusalem. If that is the case then do we have any biblical account --hard facts -- to support that view? 

well, let us look at the following for now: 

HEB 13:12,13 Wherefore Jesus also, that he might sanctify the people with his own blood, suffered **without the gate.** Let us go forth therefore unto him **without the camp** bearing his reproach.

DEU 23:10-12 If there be among you any man, that is not clean by reason of uncleanness that chanceth him by night, then shall he go abroad **out of the camp,** he shall not come within the camp: But it shall be, when evening cometh on, he shall wash himself with water: and when the sun is down, he shall come *into the camp again.* Thou shalt have a place also **without the camp,** whither thou shalt go
forth abroad:

Numbers 15:35 (KJV) And the LORD said unto Moses, The man shall be surely put to death: all the congregation shall stone him with stones without the camp.

stone me?

John 10:32 (KJV) Jesus answered them, Many good works have I shewed you from my Father; for which of those works do ye stone me? John 10:33 (KJV) The Jews answered him, saying, For a good work we stone thee not; but for blasphemy; and because that thou, being a man, makest thyself God. 

Joh 10:31
Verse 31. The Jews took up stones. Stoning was the punishment of a blasphemer, Le 24:14-16. They considered him guilty of blasphemy because he made himself equal with God, Joh 10:33.
Again. They had before plotted against his life (Joh 5:16,18) and once at least they had taken up stones to destroy him, Joh 8:59.

{f} "The Jews" Joh 8:59 

  It was both "outside of the gate" and "outside the camp" phrases used for the place where Jesus was crucified in Heb. 13:12-13. The latter phrase means a latrine in deut 23:12 (Jesus the man, under 'the crucifixion,' Locations, by Barbara Thiering, pp. 445/46).

  see also under, 'the essene quarter of jerusalem,'  ['jesus and the dead sea scrolls' - edited by James H. Charlesworth, pp. 214]. 

i.    barnes:  Heb 13:12   Without the gate. Without the gate of Jerusalem, John 19:17-18. 

ii.    The place where he was put to death was called Golgotha, the place of a skull, and hence the Latin word which we commonly use in speaking of it, Calvary, Lu 23:33; comp. Cmt. on Mt 27:33. 

iii.    Calvary, as it is now shown, is within the walls of Jerusalem; 

iv.    but there is no reason to believe that is the place where the Lord Jesus was crucified, for that was outside of the walls of the city. 

v.    The precise direction from the city is not designated by the sacred writers, nor are there any historical records, or traditional marks, by which it can now be known where the exact place was. All that we know on the subject from the New Testament is, that the name was Golgotha; that the place of the crucifixion and sepulchre were near each other; that they were without the gate, and nigh to the city, and that they were in a frequented spot, John 19:20

Let us now turn to Barbara Thiering and see what she has to say about this matter as well. She asserts:

1. THE LAST SUPPER

All gospels say that the crucifixion and the events preceding it
took place in “JERUSALEM”, using the plural form of the word. As has been seen, the distances of places given in the gospels, measured in stadia, FIT EXACTLY THE OUTPOSTS OF QUMRAN, but remain vague when related to Jerusalem [ibid.].

2. THE CRUCIFIXION

A New Testament verse says Jesus suffered “outside the gate” and  “outside the camp”. ... The phrase “outside the camp” also had a further sense to those who knew their Old Testament: Deuteronomy 23:12 shows that it designated the latrine area --- [ibid. pp. 113].

3.     the gospels say that the place of the crucifixion was known as "the place of a skull". this in itself indicates a graveyard, one of most striking features of the land surrounding the qumran* buildings [jesus the man, under 'the crucifixion,' pp. 151]

4.     the location lay outside the southern entrance gate to the qumran* complex ..... a new testament verse says that jesus suffered "outside the gate" and "outside the camp" ...... (pp. 150). 

the above is also verified by another source, like so: 

5.     the site of the crucifixion:  jesus was crucified "outside the city" (john 19:17,20; hebrews 13:12). at a place called "the skull" (matthew 27:33; mark 15:22; luke 23:33 john 19:17) (halley's bible handbook, under, 'mark,' pp. 481). 

6.    Without the gate. Without the gate of Jerusalem, Joh 19:17-18. The place where he was put to death was called Golgotha, the place of a skull, and hence the Latin word which we commonly use in speaking of it, Calvary, Lu 23:33; comp. Cmt. on Mt 27:33. 

a.    Calvary, as it is now shown, is within the walls of Jerusalem; 

b.    but there is no reason to believe that is the place where the Lord Jesus was crucified, 

c.    for that was outside of the walls of the city. 

The precise direction from the city is not designated by the sacred writers, nor are there any historical records, or traditional marks, by which it can now be known where the exact place was. 

All that we know on the subject from the New Testament is, that the name was Golgotha; that the place of the crucifixion and sepulchre were near each other; that they were without the gate, and nigh to the city, and that they were in a frequented spot, John 19:20. "

This would favour the conclusion that the place was probably upon a great road leading from one of the gates; and such a spot would only be found upon the western or northern sides of the city, on the roads leading towards Joppa or Damascus." See the question about the place of the crucifixion examined at length in Robinson's Bibli. Research., vol. ii., pp. 69--80, and Bibliotheca Sacra, No. 1.

again the verse/s in question read:

HEB 13:11 For the bodies of those beasts, whose blood is brought into the sanctuary by the high priest for sin, are burned **without the camp.** HEB 13:12,13 Wherefore Jesus also, that he might sanctify the people with his own blood, suffered **without the gate.** Let us go forth therefore unto him **without the camp,** bearing his reproach.

What does the above mean? 

how could anyone DEFEND the bible and/or defend the so-called cruci_FICTion, death and resurrection of jesus christ on such flimsy and contradictory evidence at best? 

rest assured, even the biblical authors, who were closer in time to the said events, were still unsure of the exact place and nature of the cruci_FICTion that had taken place then.  

so, how could the qadiani leader and founder of the ahmadiyya movement and zohurul hoque, respectively be so sure of the same some 2000 years AFTER the fact? their said claims and divine inspirations are full of blunders and baloney.

that said, please note that the hebrews verse 5:7 quoted above, settles the other argument, put forth by the said ahmadis and zohurul hoque. 

please allow me to touch on something more important from the qur'anic perspective before we return to this matter shortly.

4:136. O ye who believe! Believe in Allah and His messenger and the Scripture which He hath revealed unto His messenger, and the Scripture which He revealed aforetime. Whoso disbelieveth in Allah and His angels and His scriptures and His messengers and the Last Day, he verily hath wandered far astray.

'and unto David We gave the Psalms'

17:55. And thy Lord is Best Aware of all who are in the heavens and the earth. And we preferred some of the prophets above others, and unto David We gave the Psalms
Pickthal's Quran Translation

17. 55:
C2240. Not only are we not to judge other ordinary men and carp at them. We are not to set up false standards for judging the Prophets of Allah. If one was born of the unlearned Arab race, he yet was a mercy to all the worlds. If one spoke to Allah as Kalimullah or another's life began with a miracle; it does not imply superiority. It only means that Allah's wisdom is more profound than we can fathom.
C2241. The gifts with which the prophets came may themselves take different forms, according to the needs of the world and the times in which they lived, as judged by the wisdom of Allah.

A striking example here given is the gift of David over others. David was given the Zabur, the Psalter or Psalms, intended to be for the worship of Allah and the celebration of Allah's praise. For the Book of Psalms, see the last part of n. 669 to iv. 163, where exactly the same words are used about David. Yusuf Ali's Commentary from QuranTrans

*

and says what this zabur about the 'divine help and promise' to god's christ-masih - messiah? 

well, you be the judge.

Psalms 28:8 (KJV) The LORD [is] their strength, and he [is] 
the saving strength of his anointed--christ-messiah. {their: or, his}  {saving...: Heb. strength of salvations}

Psalms 105:15 (KJV) [Saying], Touch not mine anointed--christ-messiah, 
and do my prophets no harm.

the 'SAVED-LIVING' saviour

d.    see jesus' earnest prayer before the so-called crucifixion, death and resurrection. Luke 22:40-44.

The 4 gospels show that Jesus FEARED TO DIE. He prayed and supplicated;

Therefore, there can be no argument over this issue. These scriptural facts prove that Jesus WAS NEITHER CRUCIFIED nor killed -- as revealed in the Holy Qur’an centuries ago.  

jesus

Tobit : Chapter 12

^{15 I am Raphael, one of the seven angels who enter and serve before the Glory of the Lord." '19 Even though you watched me eat and drink. I did not really do so; what you were seeing was a vision.'}

the new testament

please use your god-given intelligence to determine 
the following facts for sure. 

and then answer these questions. 

i.    where was jesus at the time? 
ii.    in which physical 
or, spiritual form was he present in this word? 
iii.    WHICH part or FORM of his physical body 
or the spiritual nature was CRUCIFIED on the cross?

 

JESUS
'the reality or an illusion'

'And now I am no more in the world' 
* 
and I come to thee
*
'While I was with them in the world' 
* 
And now come I to thee
*
'and these things I speak in the world' 

*

'even as I am not of the world'

John 3:31 (KJV) He that cometh from above is above all:  he that cometh from heaven is above all. John 8:23 (KJV) And he said unto them, I am from above: I am not of this world. John 17:1 (KJV) These words spake Jesus,  John 17:11 (KJV) And now I am no more in the world, but these are in the world, and I come to thee.  John 17:12 (KJV) While I was with them in the world John 17:13 (KJV) And now come I to thee; and these things I speak in the world... John 17:14 (KJV) .... even as I am not of the world.

question

now, if jesus' own assertion as above;
i.     is correct and acceptable;
ii.    be it with regards to his reality or illusion;
       and/or his material or spiritual being;
iii.   then WHICH human part or spiritual FORM of jesus was CRUCIFIED on the  cross?

The Docetae held that Christ never had a real physical or natural body, but only an apparent or phantom body, and that his Crucifixion was only apparent, not real.  Yusuf Ali's Commentary from QuranTrans

therefore, how could we even attempt to decipher his enigmatic statements with our limited human minds and knowledge, if and when his own handpicked apostles could not understand him and were also accused of being dumb and unintelligent by him? allow me to explain.

in spite of the available evidence on this matter - the ahmadiyya leadership had taken an 'anti-islamic' view in order to promote its own hypothetical claim re: the same.

•  the apostle paul's/barnabas' words, ''YET.... learned he obedience' - would be unnecessary and meaningless at this point.

•  YOU can NOT teach 'obedience' to a dead corpse, it's that plain and simple.

• however, when did jesus disobey god, the father in order to incur the said punishment or suffering from him?

• if he did then how could anyone else follow his example and teachings?

If Hebrews were authored by Barnabas, then it can claim inspiration on the basis that he was a man "full of the Holy Spirit" (Acts 11:24) and a prophet (Acts 13:1). In any case it's divine authority is manifest.

[Pooya/Ali Commentary 3:55]

pre-islamic proof

the bible

jesus: 'And I, if I be lifted up from the earth'

John 12:32 (KJV) And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw all [men] unto me. John 8:28 (KJV) Then said Jesus unto them, When ye have lifted up the Son of man, then shall ye know that I am [he],  John 12:34 (KJV) The people answered him, We have heard out of the law that Christ abideth for ever: and how sayest thou, The Son of man must be lifted up? who is this Son of man?

John 17:11 (KJV) And now I am no more in the world, but these are in the world, and I come to thee. Holy Father, keep through thine own name those whom thou hast given me, that they may be one, as we [are]. John 17:12 (KJV) While I was with them in the world, I kept them in thy name: those that thou gavest me I have kept, and none of them is lost, but the son of perdition; that the scripture might be fulfilled.
John 17:13 (KJV) And now come I to thee; and these things I speak in the world, that they might have my joy fulfilled in themselves. John 17:14 (KJV) I have given them thy word; and the world hath hated them, because they are not of the world, even as I am not of the world.  John 17:16 (KJV) They are not of the world, even as I am not of the world. John 17:17 (KJV) Sanctify them through thy truth: thy word is truth.

Luke 24:50 (KJV) And he led them out as far as to Bethany, and he lifted up his hands, and blessed them. Luke 24:51 (KJV) And it came to pass, while he blessed them, he was parted from them, and carried up into heaven. Luke 24:52 (KJV) And they worshipped him, and returned to Jerusalem with great joy:

THE GOSPEL OF BARNABAS #220 Jesus replied, embracing his mother: “Believe me mother for verily I say to thee that I HAVE NOT BEEN DEAD AT ALL: for God HATH RESERVED ME TILL THE END OF THE WORLD.” Then the four angels narrated to the Virgin how God had sent for Jesus, and had TRANSFORMED JUDAS, that he might suffer the punishment to which he had sold another. 

#221 The third day Jesus said: Go to the Mount of Olives with my mother, for there WILL I ASCEND _A_G_A_I_N_ unto heaven, and ye will see who shall bear me up.’ And he reproved many who believed him to have died and risen again, saying: “Do ye then hold me and God for liars? for God hath granted to me to LIVE ALMOST UNTO THE END OF THE WORLD, even as I said unto you. 

Verily I say unto you, I DIED NOT, but Judas the traitor. 

Then before their eyes the four angels carried him up into heaven [pp. 262,263, 268-273]. 

lahore-ahmadiyya  The Gospel of Barnabas:
[Jesus Christ foretold the advent of the Prophet Muhammad (pbuh)]
by Mirza Masum Beg 

Prayer Accepted:

This prayer of Jesus: Take away this cup from me, offered in a state of agony and anguish (Luke, 22:44), was heard by the Most High God and there appeared an angel unto him from heaven strengthening him (Luke, 21:33). Paul, the founder of Church Christianity, speaking of this acceptance of Jesus’ prayer by the Most High God, writes in his Epistle to the Hebrews (5:7):

Who (Jesus) in the days of his flesh when he had offered up prayers and supplications with strong crying and tears unto him that was able to save him from death and was heard in that he feared. 

[snip]

He must have received Divine assurance of deliverance in answer to his prayers (Hebrews 5:7). [the qadiani leader]

Death on the Cross

"In the days of his flesh, when he had offered up prayers and supplications with strong crying and  tears unto him that was able to save him from death and was heard in that he feared". 
(Hebrews 5:7).

the qadiani addition & distortion of the biblical text 
[????  'of death on the cross']

he had prayed to god in great agony to 'take away this cup [???? of death on the cross, ???? addition navali]  from me' [mark 14:36; matt 26:29; luke 22:42], and his prayer was heard [heb 5:7] [note#699, ahmadi qur'an translation pp. 232, published under auspices of the last 3 qadiani leaders]

contradicts the bible

Mt 26:39 - And he went a little further, and fell on his face, and prayed, saying, O my Father, if it be possible, let this cup pass from me: nevertheless not as I will, but as thou wilt. Mt 26:42 - He went away again the second time, and prayed, saying, O my Father, if this cup may not pass away from me, except I drink it, thy will be done. Mr 14:36 -And he said, Abba, Father, all things are possible unto thee; take away this cup from me: nevertheless not what I will, but what thou wilt. Lu 22:17 -And he took the cup, and gave thanks, and said, Take this, and divide it among yourselves: Lu 22:20 - Likewise also the cup after supper, saying, This cup is the new testament in my blood, which is shed for you. - Lu 22:42 Saying, Father, if thou be willing, remove this cup from me: nevertheless not my will, but thine, be done.

by navali

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How early is *E-A-R-L-Y* in the Christian context? Please note that the Gospel of Barnabas is LISTED AMONG the Lost Books of E-A-R-L-Y Christian Literature. See below. 

Now, will Jochen Katz care to answer this question for us since he is being unduly stubborn? He feels that this pro-Islamic gospel was manufactured by some Muslim in the 12th century or thereabouts. 

But one James, his accomplice says, *Gospel of Barnabas (I), rejected among a list of forgeries in the _6th_ century.* See below. Apparently, these pious internet Christian missionaries have just created an insoluble problem for themselves because if, the *f-o-r-g-e-d* Gospel of Barnabas was rejected in the _6th century_ as alleged: 

a.     When was the original Gospel per se, written and by whom? 
b.     What was the status of the original Gospel in Christendom up to that point in time?

http://www.answering-islam.org/Barnabas/gosep.html 

Gospel of Barnabas (I), rejected among a list of forgeries in the 6th century. Nothing else is ^^^^^^ known about this. Not known if it ^^^^^^^^^ has anything in common with (4) below. 

Gospel of Barnabas (II), Latin manuscript from Italy in the **16th century,** translated into English by Lonsdale and Laura Rigg, published in 1907 by Clarendon Press, Oxford.

http://ironbark.bendigo.latrobe.edu.au/~blackhir/Entry.html *But there are also signs that it was not initially composed under Muslim inspiration. It shows, in fact, only a mistaken and superficial familiarity with Islam. The underlying text is more accurately described as "Jewish-Christian" or "Ebionitic". Its doctrines are those of the Ebionites, the Judaic "heretics" of early Christianity. If 'Barnabas' is a late forgery, what earlier sources might its author have used? THE MEDIEVAL GOSPEL OF BARNABAS. See below.

FOREWORD The content of this book represents only about a third of the complete manuscripts WHICH EXIST IN _A_R_A_M_A_I_C_ IN THE SECRET ARCHIVES OF THE VATICAN and in old Slavonic in the Royal Archives of the Habsburgs (now the property of the Austrian Government [The Essene Gospel of Peace, 1937, by Edmond Bordeaux Szekely pp. 7] The Essene Gospel IS NOT THE ONLY MANUSCRIPT of its kind IN THE SECRET ARCHIVES OF THE VATICAN. There were GOSPELS supposedly by Matthew, _B_A_R_N_A_B_A_S,_ James, Peter and Thomas, used by the Manicheans, together with the Book of the Obstetrician, The Essene Book of Genesis, The Canto of Christ, ---- ALL THESE MANUSCRIPTS WERE CONDEMNED AS APOCRYPHAL AND 'DAMNED FOR ETERNITY' along with their authors and followers -- [pp. 10].

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despite all this pre-islamic knowledge, these people with vested interests and claims, respectively had decided to pursue different avenues altogether.  

jesus was x_fied in an 'UNHOLY PLACE'

PROOF

'therefore shall thy camp be holy'

    Deuteronomy 23:14 For the LORD thy God walketh in the midst of thy camp, to deliver thee, and to give up thine enemies before thee; therefore shall thy camp be holy: that he see no unclean thing in thee, and turn away from thee.  

    Hebrews 5:8 though he was a Son, yet learned obedience by the things which he suffered;  Hebrews 13:11-12 For the bodies of those beasts whose blood is brought into the holy place by the high priest as an offering for sin, are burned without the camp. Wherefore Jesus also, that he might sanctify the people through his own blood, suffered without the gate. Hebrews 13:13 now, then, may we go forth unto him without the camp, his reproach bearing;

how could jesus sanctify the people with his own blood?

contradiction

the blood of jesus will avail them not

• could this be a reference & condemnation of paul's foreign churches?

• or even that of the early church per se?? 

• why did jesus condemn it/them so strongly?

• if it had not been a part of the early church per se?

• after his worldly mission? 

• when did these SATANIC CULTS CROP UP? 

• how did SATANISM infiltrate the early church and also find its way into the book of revelation?

proof

EARLY CHRISTIANITY & SATANISM

both god and jesus had foreseen what would happen to the christian church after him. it seems as though  satanism had become and integral part of the early church itself. frankly, what had changed since?

regardless, whatever god bestowed on the children of israel -- jesus simply snatched it away from them -- and gave it to a more worthy nation [ishmaelites].  see below. let the bible speak for itself