bible_jesus_x_fiction

bible_jesus_x_fiction_ii

bismillaahir 
rahmaanir rahiim 
in the name of allah, 
rahman, rahim

 

   'the supposed historical resurrection'     

versus

'so well authenticated by evidence'

 

His Royal Highness Prince Aga Khan III

         Reincarnation or Companionship on High? 

 

   An article by Imam Hazrat Mowlana Sultan Mahomed Shah (s.a.s.) 

Source: Africa Ismaili Kisumu Supplement, March 28, 1969 

The Christian burial ceremony and the prayers then said by the presiding ecclesiastics refer to resurrection in a way that implies some kind of similarity with

       THE SUPPOSED HISTORICAL  RESURRECTION OF CHRIST THREE DAYS AFTER HIS DEATH. 

      There is the undoubted implication in the Burial Service that a similar resurrection will in time be the fate of those who die in Christianity. 
   
Just as the events of Easter Week become part of Christianity and the hope of men, so the death-bed scene of our Holy Prophet, so well authenticated by evidence, took place in the presence of his two cousins, Ali and Ibn-Abbas, his wives, and above all, his future great successor, the Caliph Omar, then one of his leading companions. All this evidence is exactly the same. 

The last words of the Prophet were "Companionship on High."


           Monday, 22 October 2001


The Aga Khan: "I am amazed by the ignorance of Islam"

PARIS - He is one of the spiritual leaders of Islam who best knows the land and the people of Central Asia, the area which holds the world in suspense. He is the Imam, the religious leader and guide of the Ishamilite, whose communities are spread in various countries of Asia and Africa, but also in Europe and in North America. Throughout Iran, Pakistan, Tajikistan, Afghanistan and West China, there are more than five million Ishmaelite. ......

"I think that monotheistic religions, having an analogous belief in an only God, should and must dialogue. The three religions which Abraham inspired have many more common facets than those which divide them. 

Religion must be a means by which to affirm the ethical significance of existence, irrelevant of one's faith. If we want social development, to meet halfway, to dialogue, peace, we cannot neglect ethics and the impact which education and culture have on social growth." 

[emphasis added, navali]

 

KHUSHIALI MUBARAK TO ALL MY ISMAILI AND MUSLIM BRETHREN ON THE MOST HOLY AND AUSPICIOUS OCCASION OF THE IMAMATE DAY ANNIVERSARY -- IN ISLAM AND THE ISMAILI TARIQAH --  JULY 11, 2003

 

  Islam is for muslims *al--Haqq — the Truth* 

 

 

HOW, WHEN AND WHERE WAS

JESUS PUT TO 
[i]. DEATH 
    AND 
[ii]. HANGED 
IN ACCORDANCE WITH THE GOD'S PRECISE COMMAND?

Deuteronomy 21:22 (KJVSL) .... 
and he be to be put to 
[i]. DEATH <muwth>, 
_A_N_D_ thou 
[ii]. HANGED <talah> <8518> 
him on a tree <`ets>: 

Deuteronomy 21:23 (KJVSL) ... (for he that is [ii]. HANGEDED <talah> <8518> is accursed <q@lalah> of God <'elohiym>;) 

 

2-two separate acts were REQUIRED
to follow 
one AFTER the other

 

NOW  IF the lord god's precise command & the mosaic law and prophecy were FULFILLED  in jesus, the christ then  :

HOW, WHEN AND WHERE WAS

JESUS PUT TO 
  [i]. DEATH 
    AND 
[ii]. HANGED

i.     that said, how did jesus die? 
ii.     how many times did he die, if more than once? 
iii.    in how many places did he die, if more than one? 

salaamun alaykum, shalom, peace be upon you and ya ali madad

rest assured, if there was one thing that had divided the jewish, the christian and the muslim worlds right in the middle for all these centuries past, it was jesus' unfathomable divinity/trinity and  the above controversy. 

neither history nor the christian bible supported the same with absolute certainty. there were more unanswered questions than any sustainable evidence to prove the aforesaid.

here's the truth about the biblical 'trinity' according to the christian sources only.

     Yahshua the Messiah is Not Almighty Yahweh
http://www.ipass.net/~jcordaro/yahweh_yahshua.html

And said Tom Harpur:

    *What is most embarrassing for the Church is the 
difficulty of proving any of these statements of dogma from 
the New Testament documents. 

You simply CANNOT FIND the doctrine of the TRINITY set 
out anywhere in the Bible. St. Paul has the highest view of 
Jesus' role and person, BUT NOWHERE does he call him God. 

NOR does Jesus himself anywhere explicitly claim to be the 
Second Person of the Trinity, wholly equal to his heavenly Father. 
As a pious Jew, he would have been shocked and offended by such 
an idea. 

This research has led me to believe that the great majority of 
regular churchgoers are, for all practical purposes, TRITHEISTS. 
That is, they profess to believe in one God, but in REALITY worship 
three. Small wonder Christianity has always had difficulty trying 
to convert Jews and Muslims. Members of both these faiths have such 
an abhorrence of anything that runs counter to their monotheism, or 
faith in the unity of God, that a seemingly POLYTHEISTIC gospel has 
little appeal for them.*
[For Christ's Sake, pp. 8].

the bible

Numbers 23:19 (KJV) God is not a man, that he should lie; 
neither the son of man, 
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Psalms 146:3 (KJV) Put not your trust in princes, 
nor in the son of man, 
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
in whom there is no help. 

would these verses cover both the christian concept of the 'trinity' and jesus christ, the son of man as well?

    1.2.2.5 1 John 5:7

The only verses in the whole Bible that explicitly ties God, Jesus, and the Holy Spirit in one "Triune" being is the verse of 1 John 5:7

"For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one."

This is the type of clear, decisive, and to-the-point verse I have been asking for. However, as I would later find out, this verse is now universally recognized as being a later "insertion" of the Church and all recent versions of the Bible, such as the Revised Standard Version the New Revised Standard Version, the New American Standard Bible, the New English Bible, the Phillips Modern English Bible ...etc. have all unceremoniously expunged this verse from their pages. Why is this? The scripture translator Benjamin Wilson gives the following explanation for this action in his "Emphatic Diaglott." Mr. Wilson says:

"This text concerning the heavenly witness is not contained in any Greek manuscript which was written earlier than the fifteenth century. It is not cited by any of the ecclesiastical writers; not by any of early Latin fathers even when the subjects upon which they treated would naturally have lead them to appeal to it's authority. It is therefore evidently spurious."

Others, such as the late Dr. Herbert W. Armstrong argued that this verse was added to the Latin Vulgate edition of the Bible during the heat of the controversy between Rome, Arius , and God's people.

but then, such a grave and often times bloody, action and reaction is understandable in view of their respective scriptures and teachings.

THE REAL JESUS, 
[THE ESSENE JESUS], 
WAS NEVER CRUCIFIED

         such was the the bloody stage set for the career of the crucified of pontius pilate, whom the church confounds and makes us confound with the REAL JESUS, [THE ESSENE JESUS, pp. 9], who never took any part in politics and who as we shall see, WAS NEVER CRUCIFIED -  [the essene origins of christianity, by edmond bordeaux szekely, [pp. 39] 

but according to acts 2:33 cruci_FICTion alone did not kill jesus. whereas acts 10:39 asserts that they 'slew and hanged him.'

so where do we draw the line in order to build a new foundation when none had existed for the past 2000 years? the christian faith was grafted slowly but surely for centuries AFTER jesus' worldly mission. 

in short, one could either approach the christian bible and faith with his prejudices and preconceived notions and/or simply take a serious position - one way or the other after reading the bible with some intelligence and objectivity.  allow me to explain.

despite jesus' exaltation to a 'divine status' [hebrews 1:6 - 10]; the writer of this epistle said very little, if anything about jesus' so-called cruci_FICTion.  

on the contrary, he mostly 'exalted jesus' by reminding/quoting/rephrasing, if you will certain important passages of the book of psalms. however, as per the said book of psalms, god also promised DIVINE HELP to his 'christ- messiah - the anointed one.' details given below. 

on the other hand, he also spoke of jesus' mortality and immense sufferings - most of which were UNRELATED to his so-called cruci_FICTion, death and resurrection. rather, jesus was said to 'have learned obedience from the things he suffered.' according to the gospels, jesus suffered in life, death and resurrection.

that said, intelligence dictates that no human 'BEING' could learn a lesson or two from his sufferings and temptations, especially if the same had culminated in his untimely death. either he learned and lived to make amends and help others in the like manner, as did jesus or simply, he died and moved on.  there is no room for any middle ground or ambiguity here.

therefore, every faithful christian, regardless of his caste or creed, should and must ask himself, did his unbroken silence @ hebrews chapter 5 - the most appropriate place to speak of jesus' cruci_FICTion/sacrifice, death and resurrection, amount to tacit admission thereof or betrayal of the christian cause and foundation during its infancy? 

compare the following hebraic text to chapter 13 which culminated with jesus' bloody suffering [Heb 13:12], cruci_FICTion, death and resurrection - followed by homage paid to him at the site of his suffering by the author.  this whole chapter [Heb 13] looks like a later interpolation. it may be spurious.

proof  - AUTHORSHIP disputed

  barnes  Heb 1:1
Note: Due to extended length the Introductory Materials to this book can be found in Barnes Notes on Mal 1:1-5.
THE EPISTLE OF PAUL THE APOSTLE TO THE HEBREWS.
CHAPTER I.

   abbot:  Heb 1:1
IT will be observed by the reader, that the Epistle to the Hebrews does not, like most of the other Epistles, contain within itself the name of its author, either at the commencement or at the conclusion. The title, however, which has been attached to the work from very ancient times, attributes it to Paul; and it was the general, though not the universal, opinion of the early church that he was the writer.

contradiction: internal evidence

proof

1,    CHAPTER 13: 25 Grace be with you all. Amen. 'WRITTEN TO THE HEBREWS FROM ITALY BY TIMOTHY'

This document is from the Christian Classics Ethereal Library at Calvin College,

SwordSearcher 4

2.    Hebrews 13:25 (KJV) Grace be with you all. Amen. <<Written to the Hebrews from Italy, by Timothy.>>

3.    Hebrews 13:25 (KJVSL) Grace be with you all. Amen. <<Written <grapho> to <pros> the Hebrews <Hebraios> from <apo> Italy <Italia>, by <dia> Timothy <Timotheos>.>>

4.       BARNES:  The subscription at the close of the epistle, "written to the Hebrews from Italy by Timothy," like the other subscriptions, is of no authority.

  international bible encyclopaedia [56]: HEBREWS, EPISTLE TO THE
he'-brooz, 

III. THE AUTHOR

1. Tradition

(1) Alexandrian: Paul
(2) African: BARNABAS
(3) Rome and the West: Anonymous
2. The Witness of the Epistle Itself
(1) PAUL NOT THE AUTHOR

(2) Other Theories
(a) Luke and Clement
(b) BARNABAS; Priscilla and Aquila; Philip; Aristion; Apollos

BARNABAS

  jfb:  ORIGEN similarly quotes it as Paul's Epistle. However, in his Homilies, he regards the style as distinct from that of Paul, and as "more Grecian," but the thoughts as the apostle's; adding that the "ancients who have handed down the tradition of its Pauline authorship, must have had good reason for doing so, though God alone knows the certainty who was the actual writer" (that is, probably "transcriber" of the apostle's thoughts). In the African Church, in the beginning of the third century, TERTULLIAN ascribes it to Barnabas. IRENÆUS, bishop of Lyons, is mentioned in EUSEBIUS, as quoting from this Epistle, though without expressly referring it to Paul.

  mhwbc:  Some have assigned it to Clemens of Rome; other to Luke; and many to Barnabas, thinking that the style and manner of expression is very agreeable to the zealous, authoritative, affectionate temper that Barnabas appears to be of, in the account we have of him in the acts of the Apostles; and one ancient father quotes an expression out of this epistle as the words of Barnabas. But it is generally assigned to the apostle Paul; and some later copies and translations have put Paul's name in the title.

         http://ironbark.bendigo.latrobe.edu.au/~blackhir/Entry.html

*But there are also signs that it was not initially composed under
Muslim inspiration. It shows, in fact, only a mistaken and superficial
familiarity with Islam. The underlying text is more accurately described
as "Jewish-Christian" or "Ebionitic".

Its doctrines are those of the Ebionites, the Judaic "heretics"
 of early Christianity. If 'Barnabas' is a late forgery, what earlier sources might its author have used? THE MEDIEVAL GOSPEL OF BARNABAS. 

        http://ironbark.bendigo.latrobe.edu.au/~blackhir/Massada.html

THE MIZPAH/MASSADA PASSAGE

(Chpt. 91:2)

 In chapter 91 of the Gospel of Barnabas there is a reference to a war in Judea. In the Italian manuscript the location of this war is given as "Misfa" which the Raggs translated into Biblical English as the city of "Mispeh". 

In the Spanish text, however, the same place is given as "Massada", clearly "Masada", the fort built by Herod where, according to Josephus, the Jewish Zealots made their last stand in the Jewish Revolt. 

        http://149.144.21.60/~blackhir/Barnbookmen.html

BOOKS MENTIONED IN THE GOSPEL OF BARNABAS
OR IN THE SPANISH PREFACE

There are a number of mysterious books - otherwise 
unknown to us - mentioned in either the Spanish Prologue 
or the Gospel of Barnabas: 

      * The volume by Irenaeus was anti-Pauline and Irenaeus 
quoted as his authority "the Gospel of Barnabas".

      "Four Glosses on the Scriptures"

In the Spanish Preface Marino reports four glosses on the Scriptures
coming into his possession. Of these we are told:

* They were glosses on the Prophets Isaiah, Ezekiel, Daniel & Joel.

* They were handed to Marino while working for the Inquisition by a 
gentleman of the Urfini family.

* They were written in Latin

      "The Book of Daniel"
There are several important references in Barnabas to a 
'Book of Daniel' that in no way corresponds to the canonical 
Book of Daniel. Of this we are told:

      "The Little Book of Elijah"
In chpt. 145 Jesus, arguing with the Pharisees, mentions 
a Little Book of Elijah. He then quotes the book in full. Of 
this book we are told:

      The Old Book of Moses (and Joshua)"
The Old Book of Moses (and Joshua) is described by the good 
scribe (Nicodemus) in chpt 191. Of this book we are told:

       http://www.nettally.com/lds/lost.html

ARCHIVE: Lost Writings From: Clark Goble, 
[email protected]

VARIETIES OF _E_A_R_L_Y_ CHRISTIANITY
Lost Books of _E_a_r_l_y_ Christian Literature R. Kraft

Gospel "Q" (?) -- no complete text
[SNIP]
Gospel of Bartholomew(?) -- no text
Gospel of Barnabas(?) -- no text

BiblePro

5.    Heb 13:25 Grace be with you all.  Amen>. [Written to <4314> the Hebrews <1445> from <575> Italy, <2482> by <1223> Timothy.] <5095>

  6.    GILL NT  'written to the Hebrews from Italy by Timothy;'
in the Alexandrian copy it is, "written to the Hebrews from Rome"; which is very probable, since the Italian brethren send their salutations in it; and the words, "by Timothy", are left out; 

7.    BRI/TIM - The Bible - The King James Version - Hebrews 13
... and all the saints. They of Italy salute you. Grace [be] with you
all. Amen. <[Written to the Hebrews from Italy, by Timothy.]>. ...

on the other hand, did he - paul - timothy or barnabas - get his sequence and facts all wrong? please follow the trend of my thought.

please note that the word TEMPTED[1-5] had  been used five times in the book of hebrews.  that is - twice for jesus and other times for the israelites, who even 'tempted god' during their exodus from egypt. 

now follow the unmistakeable trend of the narration. 

compare

Hebrews 7:23 (KJV) And they truly 
were many priests, because they 
were not suffered to continue by 
reason of death

whereas, jesus helped his disciples to overcome their temptations AFTER overcoming his own. in other words, his sufferings were of a personal nature. 

b.    Mark 14:38 (KJV) Watch ye and pray, lest ye enter into temptation. The spirit truly is ready, but the flesh is weak.

c.    Matthew 6:13 (KJV) And lead us not into temptation, but deliver us from evil: For thine is the kingdom, and the power, and the glory, for ever. Amen.

paul 'received as christ jesus'

d.    Galatians 4:14 (KJV) And my temptation which was in my flesh ye despised not, nor rejected; but received me as an angel of God, even as Christ Jesus.

   barnes   Heb 2:18
Verse 18. For in that he himself, etc. Because he has suffered, he is able to sympathize with sufferers.
 Being tempted. Or, being tried. The Greek word here used is more general in its meaning than the English word tempted. It means to put to the proof; to try the nature or character of; and this may be done either

(1.) by subjecting a person to afflictions or sufferings, that his true character may be tried--that it may be seen whether he has sincere piety and love to God; or

(2.) by allowing one to fall into temptation--properly so called--where some strong inducement to evil is presented to the mind, and where it becomes thus a trial of virtue. .... He is able to succour, etc. This does not mean that he would not have had power to assist others if he had not gone through these sufferings, but that he is now qualified to sympathize with them from the fact that he has endured like trials. 

if this is the case or so it seems then one may conclude with absolute certainty that the ORIGINAL 'author of  hebrews' was a close disciple, apostle AND CONFIDANT of jesus himself. 

that said, the ORIGINAL author's unique trend continues along the same lines as follows.

simple facts or pure coincidences

why would this 'author of hebrews' talk specifically about the 'eternity and immortality' in his epistle - if indeed, he was only promoting the cruci_FICTion, death and resurrection of the jesus christ, like the other authors of the new testament?

'that is passed into the heavens'

c.    Hebrews 4:14 (KJV) Seeing then that we have a great high priest, that is passed into the heavens, Jesus the Son of God, let us hold fast our profession.

d.    Hebrews 5:7 (KJ2000) WHO IN THE DAYS OF HIS FLESH, when he had offered up prayers and supplications with strong crying and tears 

UNTO HIM THAT WAS 
ABLE TO 
SAVE HIM FROM DEATH, 
AND WAS HEARD 
IN THAT HE FEARED;

Hebrews 5:8 (KJ2000) Though he were a Son, YET __L__E__A__R__N__E__D__ HE OBEDIENCE by the things which he __s__u__f__f__e__r__e__d;__

'And being made perfect'

Hebrews 5:9 (KJV) And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him;

the eternal priest and his priesthood

Genesis 14:18 (KJVSL) And Melchizedek <Malkiy-Tsedeq> king <melek> of Salem <Shalem> [islam-peace] .... and he was the priest <kohen> - <imam> -  of the most high <'elyown> God <'el> - <al-aliyyun- arb>.

Hebrews 7:1 (KJV) For this Melchisedec, 
king of Salem [islam-peace], 
priest <kohen> <imam> of the most high God, 
who met Abraham ...... and blessed him;

Hebrews 7:2 (KJV) To whom also Abraham gave a tenth part of all; first being by interpretation King of righteousness, 
and after that also King of Salem [islam-peace], 
which is, King of peace [islam-peace]; 

Hebrews 7:3 (KJV) Without father, without mother, without descent, having neither beginning of days, nor end of life; but made like unto the Son of God; abideth a priest continually.

Hebrews 11:5 (KJV) By faith Enoch was translated that he should not see death; and was not found, because God had translated him: for before his translation he had this testimony, that he pleased God.

2 Kings 2:11 (KJ2000) And it came to pass, as they still went on, and talked, that, behold, there appeared a chariot of fire, and horses of fire, and separated them both; and Elijah went up by a whirlwind into heaven.

Prayer Accepted:

This prayer of Jesus: Take away this cup from me, offered in a state of agony and anguish (Luke, 22:44), was heard by the Most High God and there appeared an angel unto him from heaven strengthening him (Luke, 21:33). Paul, the founder of Church Christianity, speaking of this acceptance of Jesus’ prayer by the Most High God, writes in his Epistle to the Hebrews (5:7):

Who (Jesus) in the days of his flesh when he had offered up prayers and supplications with strong crying and tears unto him that was able to save him from death and was heard in that he feared. 

[snip]

=

He must have received Divine assurance of deliverance in answer to his prayers (Hebrews 5:7). [the qadiani leader]

leaving aside all sectarian or biased interpretations, this hebraic text [Hebrews 5:7 (KJ2000)] clearly shows that not only was jesus afraid to die but also that 'he was heard in that he feared.' he learned obedience and became perfect.  

he learned lessons from his own sufferings vis-à-vis temptations - and helped others to overcome their sufferings in the like manner. in other words, he was a 'SAVED' LIVING SAVIOUR.

now, if barnabas was the actual author of this epistle, as held in some parts of the christian world, then it is clear from his other scripture namely, the gospel of barnabas that the real christ jesus, son mary [pbuth] was NEVER crucified. rather, someone else was in his place. 

the said barnabas and the muslims are not alone in their assertion. there is ample pre-islamic evidence out there which supports this incredible view. see also The Gnostic Gospels, by Elaine Pagels, under, 'The Passion of Christ,' pp. 87. 

unwilling sacrifice

Matthew 26:38 (KJV) Then saith he unto them, My soul is exceeding sorrowful, even unto death: tarry ye here, and watch with me. Matthew 26:41 (KJV) Watch and pray, that ye enter not into temptation: the spirit indeed is willing, but the flesh is weak. 

  barnes  Mt 26:38

Verse 38. My soul is exceeding sorrowful. His human nature - his soul - was much and deeply affected and pressed down.
Even unto death. This denotes extreme sorrow and agony. The sufferings of death are the greatest of which we have any knowledge; they are the most feared and dreaded by man; and those sufferings are, therefore, put for extreme and indescribable anguish. 

The spirit indeed is willing, etc. The mind, the disposition is ready, and disposed to bear these trials; but the flesh, the natural feelings, through the fear of danger, is weak, and will be likely to lead you astray when the trial comes.

jesus was beyond the divine/angelic assurance

Luke 22:41 (KJV) And he was withdrawn from them about a stone's cast, and kneeled down, and prayed, Luke 22:42 (KJV) Saying, Father, if thou be willing, remove this cup from me: nevertheless not my will, but thine, be done. 
Luke 22:43 (KJV) And there appeared an angel unto him from heaven, strengthening him. Luke 22:44 (KJV) And being in an agony he prayed more earnestly: and his sweat was as it were great drops of blood falling down to the ground.

followed by jesus' final sense of despair and betrayal

matthew 27:46 but about the ninth hour 
jesus cried out with a loud voice, saying, 
Eli, Eli, lama sabachthani? 
that is, my god, my god, 
why hast thou f_o_r_s_a_k_e_n me? 

the biblical text just quoted shows that jesus went to his cruci_FICTion unwillingly and in fear of his death. even the divine/angelic visit and assurance availed him not. he continued to pray more earnestly, as the text shows. yet, in the end he was betrayed and forsaken by all, including god, the father - HIS FATHER!

his blood sacrficie will avail them not - 
'He that spared not'

Galatians 4:22 (KJV) For it is written, that Abraham had two sons, the one by a bondmaid, the other by a freewoman.
Galatians 4:23 (KJV) But he who was of the bondwoman was born after the flesh; but he of the freewoman was by promise.

Ephesians 6:8 (KJV) Knowing that whatsoever good thing any man doeth, the same shall he receive of the Lord, whether he be bond [ishmaelite] or free [israelite].

Romans 8:32 (KJV) He that spared not his own Son, Romans 11:21 (KJV) For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee. 2 Peter 2:4 (KJV) For if God spared not the angels that sinned, but cast them down to hell, and delivered them into chains of darkness, to be reserved unto judgment; 2 Peter 2:5 (KJV) And spared not the old world, but saved Noah the eighth person, a preacher of righteousness, bringing in the flood upon the world of the ungodly;

this is the reality and the truth of the matter under discussion. it is the 'gospel truth' in christian terminology. only a christian's unshakeable faith and rhetoric to the contrary, had prevailed over these scriptures. they have turned a lemon into lemonade in spite of all the odds. as they say, 'faith power works wonders.' and wonders, it had worked.

so, in the light of all this evidence alone, how could a christian expect a muslim to believe that jesus had died willingly for the sins and salvation of mankind? surely, something is not right with this picture and the christian faith and depiction thereof.

this obvious confusion and uncertainty is further compounded by the following johannine text:

JESUS
'the reality or an illusion'

1.     'and now i am no more in the world' - john 17:11 (kjv)
*
2.     'and i come to thee' - john 17:11 (kjv)
*
3.     'while i was with them in the world' - john 17:12 (kjv)
*
4.     'and now come i to thee' - john 17:13 (kjv)
*
5.     'and these things i speak in the world' - john 17:13 (kjv)
* 
6.      'even as I am not of the world' - John 17:14 (kjv)

i.     that said, which physical part and/or spiritual portion of the jesus christ was crucified - <stauroo> <4717> - [galatians 3:1]?

ii.     and/or hangeth <kremannumi> <2910> on a tree [galatians 3:1]?

iii.     or 'slew <anaireo> & hanged <kremannumi> strong # 2910 [acts 10:39]? 

let any faithful christian and/or a defender of the so-called cruci_FICTion, death and resurrection of jesus christ  prove it from john 17:11 - 14 (kjv) only.

  The Docetae held that Christ never had a real physical or natural body, but only an apparent or phantom body, and that his Crucifixion was only apparent, not real.  Yusuf Ali's Commentary from QuranTrans

 

  'AND I DID NO DIE IN REALITY BUT IN APPEARANCE'

ARCHAEOLOGICAL PROOF: 3. 'But I [jesus]  was not afflicted at all. .... AND I DID NO DIE IN REALITY BUT IN APPEARANCE, lest I be put to shame by them, ....For my death which they think happened, (happened) to them in their error and blindness, SINCE THEY NAILED THEIR MAN unto their death..... IT WAS ANOTHER, their father, WHO DRANK THE GALL AND THE VINEGAR; IT WAS NOT I. THEY STRUCK ME WITH THE REED, IT WAS ANOTHER, SIMON, who bore the cross on his shoulder. IT WAS ANOTHER UPON WHOM THEY PLACED THE CROWN OF THORNS. ..... And I was laughing at their ignorance' (The Nag Hammadi Library in English, The Second Treatise of the Great Seth (VII, 2), pp. 332). 

   Beyond Belief
By Elaine Pagels   The astonishing discovery of the Gospel of Thomas, along with more than fifty other early Christian texts unknown since antiquity, offers startling clues. Pagels compares such sources as Thomas’s gospel (which claims to give Jesus’ secret teaching, and finds its closest affinities with kabbalah) with the canonic texts to show how Christian leaders chose to include some gospels and exclude others from the collection we have come to know as the New Testament. To stabilize the emerging Christian church in times of devastating persecution, the church fathers constructed the canon, creed, and hierarchy—and, in the process, suppressed many of its spiritual resources.

Pagels' 1979 book The Gnostic Gospels was one of the first works of popular scholarship to cover the early Christian writings rejected as the religion began to establish institutions and traditions, many of which would have been lost to history were it not for their chance 1945 discovery at the site of the Egyptian Nag Hammadi Library.

      death and resurrection:

it is a fact, then,  that the canonical story of the death of christ WAS DOUBTED by many in the _s_e_c_o_n_d_ _c_e_n_t_u_r_y_ and BOOKS were written, like the GOSPEL OF BARNABAS, DENYING IT [the world's saviors, a study in comparative religions by rev. charles h. vail., pp. 32, isbn 0-7873-0906-0] .

THE WATCHTOWER GROUP

>>
  The Cross
(Greek: stauros)

Biblical Overview

THOUGH THE BIBLE DOES NOT 
specifically describe the instrument 
that jesus died upon, 
TRADITION HAS IT that he was put to 
death on a cross; 
consisting of a stake and a crossbeam.
>>

well, the above speaks for itself.  

so after it's all said and done, we are back to square 1.

HOW, WHEN AND WHERE WAS

JESUS PUT TO 
[i]. DEATH 
    AND 
[ii]. HANGED 
IN ACCORDANCE WITH THE GOD'S PRECISE COMMAND?

Deuteronomy 21:22 (KJVSL) .... 
and he be to be put to 
[i]. DEATH <muwth>, 
_A_N_D_ thou 
[ii]. HANGED <talah> <8518> 
him on a tree <`ets>: 

Deuteronomy 21:23 (KJVSL) ... (for he that is [ii]. HANGEDED <talah> <8518> is accursed <q@lalah> of God <'elohiym>;) 

 

2-two separate acts were REQUIRED
to follow 
one AFTER the other

 

NOW  IF the lord god's precise command & the mosaic law and prophecy were FULFILLED  in jesus, the christ then  :

HOW, WHEN AND WHERE WAS

JESUS PUT TO 
[i]. DEATH 
    AND 
[ii]. HANGED

 

your multiple choice answer

first of, for some very odd and mysterious reason, the destroyed city of Sodom, had been cited as, 'the great <megas> city <polis> - where also <kai> our Lord <kurios> was crucified <stauroo>'  - [Revelation 11:8]. see full text below.

 

here are the facts and you be the judge.

proof: the holy qur'an

         11:81. (The messengers) said: O Lot! Lo! we are messengers of thy Lord; they shall not reach thee. ..... 11:82. So when Our commandment came to pass We overthrew (that township) and rained upon it stones of clay, one after another, 11:83. Marked with fire in the providence of thy Lord (for the destruction of the wicked). And they are never far from the wrong-doers. 

the bible

Genesis 19:24 (KJV) Then the LORD rained upon Sodom and  upon Gomorrah brimstone and fire from the LORD out of heaven; Deuteronomy 29:23 (KJV) [And that] the whole land thereof [is] brimstone, and salt, [and] burning, [that] it is not sown, nor beareth, nor any grass groweth therein, like the overthrow of Sodom, and Gomorrah, Admah, and Zeboim, which the LORD overthrew in his anger, and in his wrath:

according to the scriptures sodom was destroyed millennia before the advent of jesus christ.  so not only is its mention at this point somewhat doubtful but also its overall NEGATIVE impact on the christian faith is far greater than THE REDACTORS had ever anticipated. 

BY JOHN

Revelation 1
Re 1:1 The Revelation of Jesus Christ, 
which God gave unto him, 
to show unto his servants things which 
must shortly come to pass; 
and he sent and signified it by his angel 
unto his servant John 

note: in the light of the revelation 1:1,2 [see below], we may assert that this divine revelation involved: 

and as such, it should and must be unquestionable and beyond reproach. 

under the same token, if the verse just cited was 'the revelation/testimony of jesus christ,' then could we attribute the following revelation to him as well?

Revelation 1:2 (KJV) Who bare record of the word of God, and of the testimony of Jesus Christ, 
and of all things that he saw. 
Revelation 1:18 (KJV) I [am] he that liveth, 
AND WAS DEAD; 
and, behold, I am alive for evermore, 
Amen; and have the keys of hell and of death.

  Re 1:2
The word of God; the word revealed by God. The testimony of Jesus Christ; the testimony borne to the truth by Jesus Christ, "the faithful and true Witness," chap Re 3:14.

in other words, if the above verse is true then the following must be true as well, because after it's all said and done, who would know better than jesus christ about his own cruci_FICTion, death and resurrection as well, the place where it happened.

detailed analysis

Deuteronomy 21:23 'for he that is hanged <talah> <8518> is accursed <q@lalah> of God'

Deuteronomy 21:22 (KJVSL) And if a man have committed a sin worthy of  death <maveth>, and he be to be put to death <muwth>, and thou hang <talah> <8518> him on a tree <`ets>:
Deuteronomy 21:23 (KJVSL) His body shall not remain all night upon the tree <`ets>, but thou shalt in any wise bury him that day; (for he that is hanged <talah> <8518> is accursed <q@lalah> of God <'elohiym>;) that thy land be not defiled which the LORD <Y@hovah> thy God <'elohiym> giveth thee for an inheritance.

  1.    <8518>. talah
Search for H8518 in KJVSL
hlt talah taw-law'

a primitive root; to suspend (especially to gibbet):--hang (up). 

  2.    6086. `ets
Search for H6086 in KJVSL
Ue `ets ates

from 6095; a tree (from its firmness); hence, wood (plural sticks):--+ carpenter, gallows, helve, + pine, plank, staff, stalk, stick, stock, timber, tree, wood.

  dictionary: gib·bet (j¹b"¹t) n. 1. A device used for hanging a person until dead; a gallows. 2. An upright post with a crosspiece, forming a T-shaped structure from which executed criminals were formerly hung for public viewing. --gib·bet tr.v. gib·bet·ed or gib·bet·ted, gib·bet·ing or gib·bet·ting, gib·bets or gib·bets. 1. To execute by hanging on a gibbet. 2.a. To hang on a gibbet for public viewing. b. To expose to infamy or public ridicule. [Middle English gibet, from Old French, diminutive of gibe, staff, probably from Frankish *gibb, forked stick.]

   Hence, his arms were nailed to the patibulum through the forearms and not through the wrists, the bones of which 'were found undamaged.' It is logical to infer, therefore, that, contrary to the customary portrayal in paintings and biographies,' Jesus had his arms pierced and not his hands. We should probably translate the only two passages in the Gospels that mention of the crucified Jesus (Lk 24, Jn 20) not as 'hands', but with Hesiod, Rufus Medicus, and others as 'arms'. Hence, according to Jn 20, Jesus said to Thomas, 'place your finger here and observe my arms...' [James H. Charlesworth is a professor of New Testament language and literature and director of the Dead Sea Scrolls Project at Princeton Theological Seminary.]

in view of the facts just cited from the bible and the pertinent christian sources only, how was the Deuteronomy 21:23 prophecy fulfilled in jesus - as @ galatians 3:13? allow me to explain.

is hanging [Deuteronomy 21:23] the same as crucifixion [galatians 3:1]? if it is then WHY was galatians 3:13 quoted instead, in fulfillment of the aforesaid old testament prophecy?

WHY is this major controversy [galatians 3:1,13], still raging among the christians? each contending sect has its own hypothetical version of the events as they happened and the instrument used some 2000 years ago. 

  Home > Catholic Encyclopedia > C > The True Cross

  the True Cross

Christian Symbols and icons

The Latin cross was adopted as the official symbol of the Christian religion at the Council of Nicaea, convened by Constantine in 325 AD.  It represents Jesus' sacrifice, but since it does not show His body, it also represents His resurrection. 

 The Tau cross is in the shape of the Greek letter "T", and represents prophecy, - or the Old Testament. 

 

for all practical purposes, CONTRADICTORY method/s of punishment had been cited in the new testament in fulfillment of Deuteronomy 21:23.

  your choice #1.   jesus predicts his own cruci_FICTion - <stauroo> <4717>

Matthew 26:1 (KJV) And it came to pass, when Jesus had finished all these sayings, he said unto his disciples, Matthew 26:2 (KJV) Ye know that after two days is the feast of the passover, and the Son of man is betrayed to be crucified <stauroo> <4717>.

  your choice #2.  'slew <anaireo> & hanged <kremannumi> Strong # 2910: in the land of the Jews, and in Jerusalem'

    Acts 10:39 (KJVSL) And we are witnesses <martus> of all things which he did both in the land of the Jews <Ioudaios>, and in Jerusalem <Hierousalem>; whom they slew <anaireo> <337> and hanged <kremannumi> <2910>  on a tree <xulon>: 

but according to acts 2:33 cruci_FICTion alone did not kill jesus. whereas acts 10:39 asserts that they 'slew and hanged him.'

compare: 

a.     Deuteronomy 21:22 - and thou hang <talah> <8518> him on a tree <`ets>:

b.     Luke 23:33 (KJVSL) they Crucified <stauroo> <4717> him

slaying and hanging
c.     Acts 10:39 - slew <anaireo> <337>
and hanged <kremannumi> <2910> on a tree

crucifixion and hanging
d.     Galatians 3:1 (KJVSL) Jesus Christ hath been evidently set forth Crucified <stauroo> <4717>.
e.     Galatians 3:13 Christ .... hangeth <kremannumi> <2910> on a tree:

i.    that said, how did jesus die? 

ii.    how many times did he die, if more than once? 

iii.    in how many places did he die, if more than one?

iv.    which of these accounts is more reliable than the others? 

v.    which ones can we discount, if that were possible?

allow me to provide some more details in this respect, if i may. 

  2910. kremannumi
Search for G2910 in KJVSL
kremannumi kremannumi krem-an'-noo-mee
a prolonged form of a primary verb; to hang:--hang

   dictionary:    hang (h²ng) v. hung (h¾ng), hang·ing, hangs. --tr. 1. To fasten from above with no support from below; suspend. 2. To suspend or fasten so as to allow free movement at or about the point of suspension: hang a door. 3., past tense and past participle. hanged (h²ngd).a. To execute by suspending by the neck: They hanged the prisoner at dawn.

slay (sl³) tr.v. slew (sl›), slain (sl³n), slay·ing, slays. 1. To kill violently.

ajnairevw Anaireo (an-ahee-reh'-o);
Word Origin: Greek,  Verb, Strong #: 337

......  to put out of the way, kill slay a man

337. anaireo
Search for G337 in KJVSL
ajnairevw anaireo an-ahee-reh'-o
from 303 and (the active of) 138; ...... to take away (violently), i.e. abolish, murder:--put to death, kill, slay, take away, take up.

  Barnes  Ac 10:39
Verse 39. And we are witnesses. We who are apostles. Cmt. on Lu 24:48.
In the land of the Jews. In the country of Judea.

Whom they slew, etc. Our translation would seem to imply that there were two separate acts--

  3586. xulon
Search for G3586 in KJVSL
xulon xulon xoo'-lon

from another form of the base of 3582; timber (as fuel or material); by implication, a stick, club or tree or other wooden article or substance:--staff, stocks, tree, wood.

anthropological examinations

   obviously, it is impossible to conclude that jesus and  jehohannan were crucified in exactly the same manner

 jehohannan was crucified closer to the time of jesus' own crucifixion. .. finally let us return  to the issues raised by the appearance of the tlh  in the dead sea scrolls. scholars have wrestled  with this verb often PRESUPPOSING  that crucifixion was by means of nailing a victim to wood. 

now, we LEARN from anthropological examinations of the bones of jehohannan that he was 'HUNG' by his arms from horizontal bar or a TREE.  

any remaining  problems with translating tlh to denote crucifixion should now be removed  ['jesus and the dead sea scrolls' - edited by james h. charlesworth, pp. 283-284]. 

 

'slew <anaireo> _a_n_d_ 
hanged <kremannumi>'

COMPARE

a.   'crucified <prospegnumi>'
- OR -
b.   'crucified <stauroo>'

the above distinction, if you will is based on the following biblical texts and references provided by some of the renowned christian scholars only. 

but more importantly, crucifixion had NO PLACE whatsoever in the old testament prophecy, which clearly speaks of  'slaying and then hanging' i.e., two separate acts or methods of punishment to be implemented one after the other. see details below. 

if so, this was not done in the case of jesus, who was ONLY crucified [<prospegnumi> / <stauroo>], according to the 4 gospels of the new testament. 

i.    Luke 23:21 (KJVSL) But they cried saying Crucify <stauroo> <4717> him, Crucify <stauroo> <4717> him. Luke 23:23 (KJVSL) And they were instant with loud voices  requiring that he might be crucified <stauroo> <4717>. 

 

James H. Charlesworth is a professor of New Testament language and literature and director of the Dead Sea Scrolls Project at Princeton Theological Seminary.

Q: Did Jesus ever write anything himself?  If so, are there any records of his writings? Also, how can it be possible for the disciples of Jesus to have remembered what he said so many years after his death?

A: The only evidence that Jesus wrote anything is what he wrote on the sand, according to John 7:53-8:11 (and that passage is not found in our early manuscripts). 

Most scholars do not think that Jesus' disciples wrote the four canonical gospels; they claim that later followers of Jesus composed these gospels. If so, they worked from oral traditions and some tracts or lists of sayings or miracles. It is not an easy to task to discern what Jesus actually said. That is the task of Jesus research. I and many other New Testament scholars conclude that we do have a pretty good idea of what Jesus' fundamental message was and how it fits into the Judaism of his time.  

 

 

to be continue

 

 

       003.095 Say: Allah speaketh truth. 
So follow the religion of Abraham [imam],

Lakum Diinukum--Unto you your Religion 
WA LIYA DIIN--AND UNTO ME MY RELIGION 
Kaafiruun--Disbelievers - Surah 109:6



 salaam : peace


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nusrat_navali.htm ;  shroud_resurrect.htm ; melchizedek ;
amdistortions.htm ;  yalimadad.html; YA ALI MADAD ; 

zohhoque_paul_qadiani; zohurul hoque_multifaceted claim_ii; zohurul hoque_multifaceted claim_iii; zohurul hoque_multifaceted claim_iv ; kabah_ali;  fatihah_baqarah_misrepresented;  dr. zohurulhoque's _ misleading translation; absentdailyrituals; replyjehovahswitnesses ; reply_ahmedhulusi; salawat and salah; kmghouri_cutting_removed ; 

  shams vellani ;  birthdaygift ; the divine prophecy fulfilled ;
  shroud_resurrect5.htm ; section 1 ; section 1a ; section 1b ; 

frnds_israel_larry_pg_1; CLEARING CERTAIN BIBLICAL MISCONCEPTIONS; foundation destroyed; salem; another_911; salem act_2a; salem act_2b;

 

        The Aga   Khan IV 

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