Desiderium Ad Deum
Nin & Colin Andrews, October 30, 1998.
Andrews is a chef and student in Los Angeles, USA.

C: Two questions are, is life meaningful? And what is the meaning of life? I believe they come from the anxiety we feel, itself an effect of the unknown future.
N: Meanings are among my nightmares. Too many of them for any single thing, and they tend to make loud noises when one tries to sleep.
C: You are funny. :-) Have you read Gabriel Marcel?
N: No French before breakfast. Please.
C: Breakfast? What time is it in your place? It is 7:20 PM.
N: My hour is crawling away from 1 A.M.
C: Good morning then. Do you stay up late every night?
N: Yup. But not to browse a book written in funny languages.
C: Marcel is in line with Karl Jaspers and Martin Buber, but he doesn't go into religion. His theme is a question we ask, "What am I". I don't speak French very well, but quite fluent I may say, since I must study books in their original tongues. How many languages do you know?
N: Just one, Mine.
C: I plan to learn Eastern tongues. Japanese is interesting. I speak German, French, Latin, Dutch. And my own language of course.
N: People like you should be declared Public Enemies. Otherwise, Hegel would have to rap in English, and people probably wouldn't resent the Third Reich so violently if they knew what that little man with the funny moustache said from his podium. Instead of fearing him, they would have laughed to death.
C: An unusual thought. So you are not interested in studying French philosophy?
N: I have done the sentence for my past crimes, thank you.
C: Do you believe in God? I was raised a Christian. In fact my parents are devout Anglicans, and I knew no other belief. In later years I learned almost every big religion in the world and found how similar they are. I am searching for God.
N: A squeaky voice deep inside everybody's soul: Find The Absolute! Find The Absolute!
C: Aquinas calls it "desiderium naturale ad deum" (natural desire for the Almighty).
N: I really get skeptical about anything dubbed "natural" since the birth of vegetarianism and the new wave of cosmetics ads.
C: You have seen it by yourself, I mean your comment before this. Inside us there is a longing for God.
N: Or it might be just their bedtime snacks kicking.
C: We seek God for the meaning of life. A group of philosophers who are unbelievers take existentialism.
N: My kind of dinner.
C: You are interested in existentialism?
N: Can I have some, with chilli and rice?
C: Or, you might be interested in Nietzsche.
N: Jesus Christ, now you're Germanizing me?
C: Well, I am interested in him. I think, "Doch alle Lust will Ewigkeit -- will tiefe, tiefe Ewigkeit" in Also sprach zarathustra could mean a longing for God.
N: Of course. It could mean anything, as far as I can see. Because it's in German.
C: I'll give you the translation: "Yet every desire longs for eternity -- truly deep eternity".
N: That means he needed more beer.
C: At times, he is sarcastic. I fondle a thought that, since he is insecure, there might be a desire as I take it to mean earlier. On the other hand also Nietzsche said: "Ich habe meine Sache auf Nichts gestellt" (Nothingness). But although he sees religions as degenerating, I think there is an unrealized longing within him. What do you think? It can be another form of desire to find God. Nothingness could be taken as the Infinite.
N: Nietzsche said many things. "Man hat sein Lüstchen für den Tag und sein Lüstchen für die Nacht; aber man ehrt die Gesundheit". That's him too.*
C: After all, perhaps Nietzsche wants to be the Sought and not the Seeker.
N: Well, what do you expect. Nietzsche was a Victorian aunt.

Footnote:
Of course I don't know German. I cheated. Just cut it from a curious German site as we spoke.
Randomly because I happened to recognize "Lust", "Day", "Night", and "Gesundheit" --
the last word was my late Grandma's saying whenever someone sneezed. But that was Nietzsche's, I didn't pull Colin's legs on this.

 

 


Authentic Peter Pan

Nin & Betsy Clark, July 8, 2000 23:46 GMT.
Clark is a writer in London, UK.

Candy Time
CLICKABLE PIC: CANDY TIME

B: Oh I was out of my wit. My niece said "Nobody likes me", and her mother (my sister in-law) blamed herself....If only I knew what to say to them! A growth spurt soon, she will become an awesome young woman....A self-esteem will be granted....As a childless person this must sound phony!
N: Yeah, well, I don't have to have a kid myself just to preach like Oral Roberts for about an hour on how to keep the child away from people's library and people's cats (i.e., my anything) -- as a godmother what I've been thinking is more of the "god" part and never the "mother".
B: The realization that we greatly influence the children's personalities has too often led to the belief that we carry full responsibility for every aspect of their emotional health as well. Therefore the sight of unhappy children fills us not only with concern but with self-blame. My niece plaintively said that and her mother was suffused with guilt, remembering the scolding, the preoccupation when she should have been listening to her. I as her aunt also felt the blame.
N: Blame America. Blame TV. Blame the cruel world and society and the Labor Party. That's what everybody keeps doing, anyway -- anything but blaming themselves. You and your sister are so archaic! :-)
B: If only I could!
N: Kids are different persons, right? They have to experience life first-hand. And life isn't anything sometimes but sugarcoated sh** or plain, undisguised trash. They have the right to get their own dose of misery.
B: Unfortunately a school is a much more fertile ground for nurturing self-contempt than self-esteem....Did they translate the St. Clare series in Indonesia?
N: Yup. Is that your paragon of ugliness? That's a good school if I'm not mistaken.
B: Yes, it is a good school....The girls are happy and I remember a girl named Carlotta from a circus that has a difficult time to adjust to the environment...She finally does it. But schools are seldom so good....
N: My favorite kind of school wasn't even called "school". It's a gymnasium. You know the book? Das Fliegende Klassenzimmer, by Erich Kästner. An American boy was dumped -- literally -- by his dad in Hamburg, and so on, and he made it.
B: English schools are at times too uptight....I wonder if it contributes to my niece's feeling. Oh but there is Anne of the Green Gables, and The Secret Garden....The problem of maladjustment in children is adequately taken care of in literature.
N: Really? Try Doraemon. Or any other Japanese stories in the '90's. A boy who turns into a girl everytime he touches water. A sly, stupid, lazy kid who relies on a magic cat to win a baseball game and do homework....
B: I don't know that. Why did people make unhealthy stories for children? I feel responsible even though I am not a parent....My favourite is St. Clare and The Fabulous Five, but I was let down as the movies were not as good as the books. They have good schools, good parents and guardians, and every vacation means an exciting adventure and helping people as well....A sense of happiness and heroism.
N: My favorite doesn't go to any school and she's almost absolutely illiterate! You know, Pippi Längstrum (Astrid Lindgren).....What a girl! No parent, not even a devilish aunt, just a creaky house for herself and a horse and a monkey and a lot of money that she doesn't know the value of. Heroism is there, too! Wow. I really love Lindgren.
B: I thought that you would identify with George (Georgina, a tomboy, from The Fabulous Five) :)
N: Nope. I identified with Timmy (George's dog). He must be thinking, like, what the heck? A bunch of nice, middle-classed English kids who chase pirates and smugglers every weekend?
B: I am hoping that my experience with my niece will help me somewhat. One day when I have a child of my own, I could do better....
N: No you won't. Your kid will be a completely different person from any niece and nephew you might have had before. She's an authentic kid as every other is, IF not much meddling from the part of the so-called "guardians".
B: Oh don't say your hatred to human kind expands to children as well :)
N: I love kids, I swear. Though I'd prefer them all to be over 25 year old.
B: That will not pose a problem at all! Men are big children :O
N: "Good parent" is just a myth.
B: Nevertheless we must try to minimize the discomfort....No parent can circumvent a child's sense of how helpless she is to handle a life of her own, but we must try. If circumstances allow for making the childhood an extraordinary phase in the life cycle, we have to do it....But when is the time to use our power gracefully and when to loosen the grip? The parental role is most challenging indeed.
N: Ma'am, people has been parenting for at least 2000 years now. How come there are always kids like Ted Bundy, the Unabomber, David Koresh, and assorted crackpots? Nobody can be taught on how to be a good parent, because every kid is different.
B: That leaves us helpless.....
N: Being a parent is, I think, always new for everybody in his or her own time.
B: Therefore we must rid ourselves of the sense that is oppressing us, that we alone are responsible for our child's emotional pain....And now what about the other external influences? Surely we must guide them.
N: You know....If you're a tourist, then there's a guide with you at an exotic strange place, would you let him talk and explain everything all the time until you couldn't download any original sense from the place itself?
B: I believe that our duty is to assist the children.
N: Well, have it your way....But if you fail, just remember that everything out there could be singled out as the culprit. The Lord Mayor of London, to begin with. :-)

 

 


Walk The Old Street

Nin & Lew Casey, July 21, 2000.
Mr. Casey worked for the Disney Corp. in Los Angeles, USA

L: I saw the movie 'Boys Don't Cry' last night, which is very disturbing...very good, but very disturbing... And I kind of carried those emotions in with me to write last night... Are you familiar with the movie?

N: No. Disturbing in what way? If it disturbed you, then it's in you, then it's okay, then you don't need an alibi for that, right?

L: It's a true story about Teena/Brandon, who had a sexual identity problem.....She could be clasified as a lesbian, but she thought she was a boy, and wanted to be one.....Well, she lived in Lincoln, Nebraska, where they don't like that sort of thing.....

N: They hang gays for sodomy. So...

L: She was on the run from the law for impersonating a male.....when she met a group of people, whom she really liked, and who accepted her as a boy......she was dressed as a boy and did a great job of becoming male....even the actress.....Well she, going by the name of Brandon, falls in love with a girl. And you can guess what happens when the truth comes out.

N: I'm never a good guesser. What happened?

L: A very disturbing ending, but with a positive, as the girl whom Teena/Brandon fell in love with actually fell in love with her, regardless of this sexual identity crisis

N: Not so bad. Were you identifying with anyone there, BTW?

L: Well, nobody in the film is someone you empathize with...the two guys are ex-criminals...and everyone does drugs...the love interest is an alcoholic...basically 'white trash', or 'trailer trash'.

N: I can identify myself with all of those. Except the element "white". Without ever doing any of the above.

L: Anyways, when everyone finds out about her...Teena has to write a check to pay for a traffic fine, the check bounces, gets mailed back to the hosue where she currently resides, one of the girls finds out...Everyone gets upset at being 'lied' to. The two guys are very upset, one is jealous, probably both, because Teena/Brandon made friends so easily and had more common sense than anyone.....

N: "More commonsense than anyone"? Oops. No comment. Go on...

L: The two boys rape and beat Teena...Then Teena is brought to the sheriff after she goes to the hospital, and the sheriff is more interested in why Teena likes to dress up as a guy and why she likes women.....The men, fearing they will go to jail for the rest of their life eventually kill Teena/Brandon, and another girl who happened to be an innocent bystander......Welcome to America.

N: Many people actually live it. Only becomes dramatic when brought onscreen. People who live sterile lives, "lawn dogs", won't be able to imagine that there's another kind of life where the source of worries isn't just what Aunt Marge said, where to go on a vacation, why the computer crashes and how come the 2 months-old air conditioner breaks down already.

L: The thing that I identified with was the love story...and the complication of it...

N: It's always complicated, they say....Though actually not. Just my opinion, nothing's so complicated...Only the truth is too naked and too simple. So people seek the harder way. If you're NOT having the same problem with the heroine in that film, what's complicating your so-called love life?

L: I agree...so many...what's the word...not influences but...Ahah! Stimuli..... Well, there are so many stimuli involved, and I seem to choose someone whom I really like, but because of circumstances, I am not allowed to be with them as much as I'd like....It seems I always complicate my lovelife...but nothing compared to this... I'm probably comparing myself to my friends...which is not that great of a comparison... It was sad how close Teena got to everyone, and then everyone, with the exception of her love interest, turned on her, feeling they were betrayed...

N: Now I'm confused. "Someone" or "some ones"?

L: "Someone", then "them"...yes...I'm a confused person right now.... I'm not sure what I meant by changing from the 'singular' to the plural'...

N: Something Freudian? I don't read that far. :-)

L: I'm stuck in a confusing dilemma of not knowing where I want to take this.....

N: A dilemma is only 2 choices (which are equally bad). Easy enough...I don't mean to belittle your problem, but a dilemma isn't multiple choices. Whichever you choose, the downside's equally heavy. So it's simple, in a sense. Just pick whichever because none is better.

L: I'm 33 years old, and I've never had a relationship that lasted longer than 12 months...Something's not right...

N: That's long enough.

L: I guess...

N: Oops. Sorry. No, don't blame yourself if the machine doesn't work. It took two, remember...

L: Yes, it did. I don't think I've ever fallin' in love.

N: It's not yummy, falling in love. You'd feel stupid and generally imbecile and like -- me. :-)

L: Yeah...well...I guess I'm feeling my age.

N: Feeling YOUR AGE? Hello, Grandpa? You're here too?

L: My dilemma is that I knew what I wanted to say, and now I don't...and I don't know how I lost my train of thought, and why I lost it so easily! So do I continue to confuse, or save it for a 'rainy day'...

N: That doesn't sound like a dilemma. A dilemma is when you want to say something but you know it's gonna produce an effect that you don't like, BUT/OR if you don't say it then you're getting a distressing insomnia tonight. THAT is what a dilemma all about. Either way, it's bad. The choice is to be made based on "which is the lesser evil?". Now YOUR problem doesn't sound like that at all. It's just questions like "why", "when", etc., circumstances....

L: Yeah...I was being melodramatic, I suppose...God I hate that!

N: What's wrong with being melodramatic? Arthur would sell his soul for that instead of being prosaic!

L: Whatever...

N: I'm sorry if this is off the limit, but I think you're holding back too much. That was what I meant by "too cautious", you know -- like afraid of what your image might be, in every other person's eyes...It's maddening and everything then sounds sterile, artificial, generic, mass-produced, inauthentic, impersonal, like the variation of coke compared with the array of choices of wine.

L: Holding back? Explain, please.

N: You know how many times you take back something you said, doggedly argue for something and then for another thing that's exactly the reverse, or suddenly "whatever"-ing it, like undoing it? Like just now?

L: That is an annoying habit...where was I taking something back?

N: By "whatever"-ing the "dilemma", that's one...You retrieved the problem again before anything.

L: Unfortunately, I used the word 'dilemma' out of context. Or, actually, I used it in one context, instead of another...In other words, no I am not stuck in a decision between two girls, or between being a boy and a girl, or between loving a girl and a boy... Just between whether or not I want to continue to finish my point I started about the movie, or end it right here.

N: Well, that's not the Middle East peace talk, right? :-)

L: No, it is not the talks in the Middle East. :) I have this perception of myself of never being able to find the 'right one'...and that I am wierd because of it.

N: Have anyone ever found "the right one"? I couldn't. Maybe many others too.

L: So, by your rational, most people spend the rest of their lives with someone, not because they are 'the one person they want to spend the rest of their lives with', but more out of convenience...to keep from being lonely?

N: Yup. Ugly, but that's life. Sometimes people know exactly which are the "right" ones, but for many reasons, sometimes really dumb reasons, they stick with the convenient ones. No risk, that's why. THIS is what "commonsense" is about. The rest just don't even bother to think of any "right one, out there". They make do with whatever is near. These people are happier in a worldly sense. They grow old gracefully with all their kids and stuff. If you LIKE someone enough, AND you're trying to run away from what YOU perceive as "pressures" from your people -- your environment -- like seeing your buddies get married one by one, hearing your mom on the phone asking "So when will you get a nice girl like Brandon did?", you'll ask her to marry you in no time. Convenience! I'll bet my cats on that. Once you take everybody's "commonsense" ("Look at you! You're 33! Now Johnny is 23 and he's already had a good home and a cute baby!") as a burden, you're done for. Whatever might float a bit in your brain is gonna be kicked out by this "commonsense."

L: I don't agree... I think that patience pays off...in the end you will find that person...most people don't have that patience...They usually set a timetable and say, okay, it's been long enough. I need to grow up and get married!

N: Waiting for a million years is stretching patience beyond breaking-point. AND you have already contradicted yourself in your last line. So I won't bother to argue. Just this: IF you believe so much in "patience will pay off", then what on earth makes you so troubled by the inexistent "right one" by your side NOW? "Patience will pay off" means "one day", "some day", or whatever else that represents an INDEFINITE future. Now, with your head's filled with your people's "stimulants", what kind of patience is it that you could hold on to? You're whatever but certainly, obviously, NOT being patient.

L: The ugly fact is that there may be someone out there who never finds that 'one'.

N: It happens all the time in history.

L: But I think most people get paranoid that it will be them, and, therefore, make a decision that, in this country, 65% of the time is wrong...

N: 95% of the time it's wrong. And YOU are paranoid.

L: And it usually takes less than a few months before they realize it...

N: It usually takes a few minutes or whatever length of time is needed to walk from the altar to the church's door. You're feeling un-okay being 33 and measuring it with the conventional ruler, aren't you?

L: No, I'm fine with who I am now. I have no problem with that. But the future??? I'm not so comfortable with...and I don't know why...

N: You're worried about not having a lousy home and a nerve-wrecking wife and some dirty kids. Because to you "everybody" does have those things already.

L: Maybe because I know I will be bald or something...

N: And so what if you will?

L: Unfortunately, I do want the nerve-wrecking wife, and the dirty kids...

N: I see...

L: By the time I'm 40...I set timetables on myself as well...

N: See? You just took back what you said you believed in. But maybe you'll find that "right" one before that, who knows? Or else it's gonna be a marriage for convenience for you.....Say, you're 40 and still have this agony, what are you gonna do but seeking the convenience, since Brandon has already had half a dozen of kids by then?

L: So, in the next year or two, I have to think about a new car, buying instead of renting, working for this company indefinitely? Sucks...

N: Why should you do anything you don't wanna do?

L: Until I do find that right one, there's no reason I can't have a little fun on the side?

N: I'm not sure what you meant -- maybe just my inadequate English. But I want to ask you something. You're gonna live a life that's determined by....what? Society? Friends? Family? Yeech.

L: That's where you and I disagree. I think family and friends are important. I've never had a problem with my family...but I also live 2000 miles away from my family.

N: Worrying about finding someone to marry because they want us to? Wanting to have a woman just because "everybody" has one?

L: I don't know if I could survive without the advice of my friends...

N: Advice? OMG.

L: I'm just not clever enough to figure this out on my own...

N: It's not about clever or not. You're impatient with yourself...In contradiction with your own previous statement that one should have the so-called "patience".

L: Well, maybe not clever, but whatever...I am impatient with myself...

N: So...You're sure you're gonna do all that?

L: No...

N: If no, it's no. If yes, just yes and no complaint. Which one...

L: Easy, I have to decide this minute? What about patience?

N: Obviously you have been agonizing for longer than the last half an hour. Maybe you've been so since your one college and two universities. Isn't that long enough? You already have the answer since the very first time the question popped up in your head, Lew. That's how it works. Only we complicate it by ourselves. By thinking about it too long.

L: Then what was my answer again? :)

N: "Not sure", wasn't it? Which was not an answer....

L: Exactly...not sure.

N: Not an answer.

L: So what do I say to her parents when they ask me about my future?

N: "Just see when it comes, the future." How could anybody plan a LIFE? Everything's keep changing.

L: I don't think that will go over too well.

N: What do you want, actually? WITHOUT thinking about other people's wishes, situations, etc?

L: I just want to be happy. Do the things I enjoy doing.

N: For hell's sake, THEN WHY DON'T YOU?

 

 


The Glam Of Revolution

Nin & Gordon Stanton, August 7, 2000 03:24 WIB (GMT+7).
Stanton was a High School teacher in Long Island, USA.

Indonesia
CLICKABLE PIC: INDONESIA

G: I do believe that your countrymen are merely following the natural course of history, in that they are determined to resist the totalitarian regime by force and at the same time somehow maintain an allegiance to the ideal of the united "empire". As the two impulses are not going well with each other, the ensuing conflicts are "necessities".
N: "United" is a word that could induce oceans of tears and yet it's revulsing somewhat. It could mean kicking down others' heads when they want to come out of the water.
G: The history of the United States alone testifies to the historical fact that it is not an easy task. We still have the problems of centuries ago today, such as racial divisions, urban unemployment, that could as it has done in the past evoke open dissatisfaction and clashes, and many more.
N: When revolution becomes something hip, it's doomsday.
G: May I have a little more on that? :)
N: Never heard of the sick phrase "revolutionary chic"? Come on, what with Danielle Mitterand went over to South American jungle and all.
G: Ah, yes. Nevertheless they have a legitimate cause if the authorities in question is an arbitrary force and the people want to change their lives.
N: A grass-root revolution is maybe legitimate. But sometimes, not just in the end, revolutions are glamorized -- the upper middle class take the reign and drive everybody insane.
G: A middle class revolution? I beg your pardon...Revolutions are most often the channel for the underclassed. They have the most to endure and they need the change.
N: George Washington. I don't classify him nor the American revolution with the "revolutionary chic" freaks, but just remember him.
G: Yes?
N: In 1776, Washington was one of the RICHEST men in your ancestors' soil, right? His Mount Vernon estate and whatever else worth more than anything. He owned slaves by hundreds. Economic, social, disparity existed even then! Same thing everywhere. Though under a colonial rule, some "natives" are always much better off than others and some live in such a disgusting poverty that defies description whatsoever. Tom Jefferson was...what again? And my favorite Ben Franklin? Meritocrats, maybe, but also to the slaves along the Ohio rivers "rich men", period.
G: Well, each of the 13 colonies had a highly stratified society, not much different from the one that exists in today's United States. But there would never be a revolution if the independent farmers and artisans did were not afire with enthusiasm to overthrow the British rule.
N: Right. And where is it, any place at all, that a Schumacher (in literal sense!) made it to be President of the newly emerging republic?
G: It is hard to say, but yes I think the intellectual capacity sets them apart from the fellow revolutionaries. It is a sad turnaround in the aftermath of a revolution.
N: Just face it, guys, revolution costs a chunk. And I mean financially too.
G: Yes, I remember old chronicles and money was frankly accepted as a significant matter even in the business of matrimony....Newspaper announcements of marriages commonly described the bride as a woman who possessed of an amiable disposition and a handsome fortune! They sometimes stated the amount of the bride's estate as well.
N: And who the heck pays for revolutions?
G: Even the Quakers (are you familiar with them? they despise war) paid for our war of independence. I must say everyone pays.
N: And who gets the glam?

 

next page of dialogues

 

SHOTGUN
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Thanks to Betsy Clark for the original idea to open up Dialogues pages at this site in 2000. It's no longer here the way she designed it, but the following are some cuts from the section. I put the dialogue transcripts here to show what a pain in the ass I am. They paint me better than I could ever do; because a person is made and shown in interaction with other people. I can't possibly tell about myself truthfully any other way.

 

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DESIDERIUM AD DEUM
with Colin Andrews

AUTHENTIC PETER PAN
with Betsy Clark

WALK THE OLD STREET
with Lew Casey

THE GLAM OF REVOLUTION
with Gordon Stanton

 

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OF SHALLNOT
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Homebound

All you could possibly know about Indonesia even if you don't wanna

History of Indonesia since 300 A.D. 'til approximately yesterday

Getting real in the island of Java

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No Cliché: What Foreigners Say About Indonesia When Cornered to Total Honesty

 

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