Posted by Kinsman [TG] on April 05, 1999 at 13:19:44 {6.uz.4vynMfp06cXfsfIqXkUpQVXdM}:
In Reply to: Opinion About Reform posted by ros on April 05, 1999 at 12:33:28:
ANOTHER OPINION 1605:
Reform-minded Catholics cannot, in my opinion, succeed in pressuring the Papal Leadership to reform its doctrinal premises. Why? Because any reform movement requires some kind of organization with leadership. It cannot happen by Catholics coming into a forum of discussion and anonymously expressing their disagreement with certain doctrines. Reform comes when a significant number of citizens rise in protest, vocalize their protest, and through rallies and emotionally-charged speeches garner a following that is significant enough to force reform. It does not happen by covert expressions of discontent among a few.
The Papal Leadership has a built-in deterrent to such activity--much like totalitarian governments do, by prohibition of civil liberties. Only in the case of the Papal System, it�s their excommunication policy and disallowing exposure to former members that is so very effective. A Catholic dare not speak out against Papal doctrines and policies--not even privately to a "trusted" close friend. The Papal Leadership has effectively convinced their flock that such is not an act opposing a mere organization, but is an act of opposition against the God and Creator of this vast universe. Not a simple misdemeanor, but a capitol crime deserving of everlasting torture. To not turn in such an individual for such "apostasy", even if it�s your mother, could make you equally guilty as an accomplice of the deed. So Catholics push their doubts back, repress and deny them, or the braver souls dare to come into a forum like this and discuss them only in the closet of anonymity, expressing hope that "reform" will somehow come. Dream on.
What motive does the Papal Leadership have for reform? If they admit their errors, which in effect would be admitting the "apostates" were right all along, they know from experience that there would likely to be a significant falling away. If they were to reform their excommunication policy, they would relinquish their mightiest hold for absolute control over their flock--and it is very effective, as we all know.
The only thing that would force the Papal Leadership to reform--like any other organization--would be mass exodus--withdrawal of support, so that it would hit them where it hurts, in their bank accounts. If a sizeable faction of their membership left for issues made known, enough to impact them financially--that is what would initiate reform. But since only "apostates" leave (and don't let them kid you--they apply the Biblical definition of "apostate"), and since they cannot look at what "apostates" say with being an "apostate" (heads they win, tails you lose), it is not likely to happen. So the Papal Leadership has effectively rendered it next to impossible for anything like a reform movement to occur.
Doesn�t seem so Clever after all, huh? Same O �Same O
Granted change among authoritarian religionist is indeed slow; but without vocal protests and discussion among protesters, it would indeed be even slower. So anonymously or not, compelling or not, quantitative or not, reformers communicating to one another and to the world, spreading their message through an underground movement; can and will eventually have an impact. �Slow as molasses, �yes, �but real nonetheless.
In 1992 the Catholic Church officially admitted error and apologized for its treatment of Galliao. �It seems the Catholic Church now officially concedes that the earth is not flat and the center of the universe; furthermore they state that the earth was never flat. �Go Figure �eh?
Kind Regards - Kinsman