Posted by Joseph Malik [JosephMalik] on March 28, 1999 at 14:20:44 {kwPNhmZ1iochMVKKNkuUMWKwtN58YgBC6}:
In Reply to: **New Messianic Truths posted by Glamotta on March 28, 1999 at 10:58:44:
>>1. The Bible, after describing the 1000-year reign and then describing the release of Satan to test those who are alive after the 1000-year reign, then record his death. And THEN after that, we find the "dead the great and the small"
before the throne getting judged. Who are the "dead, the great and the samll"? And THEN, after all that, we find the second resurrection being recorded, where death and Hades and the sea give up their dead. If we take the Bible's accounts
of these events in STRICT CHRONOLOGICAL ORDER...then it is clear the second resurrection takes place AFTER Satan is
released, AFTER Satan is destroyed, and AFTER the "dead the great and the small are judged." To believe these are
resurrected before these events,
you must introduce an "out of order" exegeticism. I don't believe this can be easily.
Gary,
Not out of order as you claim. Parallel views of the same event, the first 1000 years of the kingdom itself. This is the way Jesus taught and the 24 and 25th chapters of Matthew are full of such parallel views of this same kingdom. Strict chronology does not work with revelation as we discussed, otherwise we would have a Jerusalem after Jerusalem coming down from heaven and crushing the one that came prior to it. Do you remember this discussion? This is evidence that supports a parallel application of the texts. Consider chapter 20 again.
Rev. 20:1 And I saw an angel come down from heaven, having the key of the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand. 2 And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years, 3 And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.
Why is Satan bound for a thousand years? "that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled:"
However the way you teach it nearly everyone that can rightly be called Nations (Gentiles, non believers) is still dead after Satan is cast into the lake of fire since their resurrection takes place after such an event? Therefore such Nations cannot or will not get deceived at all? On what then is their judgement based and how is it that they escape a test that JW's must face? Are believers rightly called Nations at such a time or do they sit on thrones, which?
4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
Who are these? Are they the Nations? No? Then where are the Nations just discussed that make it necessary to bind Satan for 1000 years so that he cannot deceive them? Where are they Gary and how is it they they needed such protection and exactly who is being judged here? Who are they reigning over? Themselves?
5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.
They are there all along according to this text being judged. They are the rest of the dead that are not sitting on "thrones" the ones that did not "witness of Jesus," that did receive the mark upon their foreheads or in their hands. The difference between then and the saints is simply that "they lived not again until the thousand years were finished." They do not have life unto themselves as do the saints and second death does have authority over them. Here in Baptist country, they cannot answer "YES" to the question "Are you saved." This is all about justification and not resurrection. The instructions that they receive during the 1000 years will prepare most for the final test that they will face and only the ones that are deceived by Satan and identified as such by name are involved in the conflict to follow.
6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.
That is why this distinction is now made. That is why true disciples of God and of Christ are so blessed and holy, given responsibility during this same thousand years as priests, teachers and leaders of the faith.
7 And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison, 8 And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea.
So if all the resurrection has not taken place yet Gary as you teach then where did all these people come from? We know that they are not the saints as second death has no authority over them. How is it that such nations are alive and well, shown as fully functioning when Satan is let loose out of his prison?
9 And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them. 10 And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.
Only the ones identified by name (Gog, Magog) are being discussed by John and the conflict that embroils them. The ones not so identified are not being discussed. This is now the time when the survivors not involved will also gain the life that the saints already have and second death will no longer have authority over them as well. So to see how they got into this 1000 years of kingdom rule we will have to look at all of this again and so we have:
11 And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them.
So we start naturally back at the beginning.
12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.
What they did when they were alive, before they died will determine if they gain entrance into the millenium or not.
13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.
They are taken from all
mankind that ever lived and thus represent all the Nations that we have been discussing all along.
14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.
This takes place before the final test not after as you teach. Thus the sheep that did not abuse their neighbors (our Lord's brothers as he died for all mankind) but were kind to them or in other words decent human beings deserving of another chance. These are the ones the saints will be priests over and help them to overcome Satan when he is let loose, someone that the saints have already overcome.
15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.
But not everyone has been decent nor will everyone be found deserving. Some will be identified as goats and they will not be raised at all. Their names are not found written in the book of life. Only deserving ones will be raised to Judgement day, the 1000 year reign of Christ and given an opportunity for eternal life.
Joseph