Carphunter
–
Subject: Questions for the Master
I'm
picking up the obligatory carbide sandpaper and a tack rag this evening, as
well as tung oil, shellac and anything else you suggest I might need. If you
check the post and the site with the pics of my rifle (unstripped,
and stripped,
you can see that it has some areas that seem to look different than the rest
(left side of stock near butt really shows it). Not sure if this is where
there is unbroken grain of the wood, or what. (I also intend to hit a couple
places on this tonight with lacquer thinner to see if possibly the rifle had
been finished twice...once with lacquer, once with shellac. Is this something
that will be hidden, or washed out with an oil finish, or do I need to find
some way to color the whole rifle somewhere in the process to blend these
areas out? I guess I want to be certain of two things...that the original
finish is gone, and that I have the wood properly prepared for spit coat,
oil, and final shellac (I assume that's the route to go with this).
Oh,
back to oil and shellac. I've searched the threads, but can't find a
straight recommendation for the actual type of Tung oil you recommend, as
well as particular brands of shellac to look for.
Cabinetman-
I finally got to see the photos of your K31. That damage is definitely water
damage. The water got below the finish and altered the wood so that it's gray,
compared to the rest of the rifle. Also, wherever the original owner held
it, the finish was worn away, principally near the forearm.
All
in all, the stock looks pretty nice and has lots of nice patina to it. There
are also some nice handling marks. Nothing jumped out at me that was really
bad and I've seen some really bad ones. I'll make a reply to the board but
wanted to discuss this with you privately as to not get into a deep discussion
with the rest of the forum. Here's what you'll need:
First,
you'll need some of the sandpaper I mentioned. It's silicone carbide "open"
paper. It's always gray and has a lubricant in it.
You'll also need some acetone or lacquer thinner and steel wool.
Next, you'll need some dye. You'll be looking for something "warm" that matches the color left in that stock. The brand of dye I recommend is Behlen Brand. It's a retail arm of the commercial stuff I use. You can see the color chart here.
Dyes will not obscure your wood but will color the gray part back up. I'd
look at the Medium Red Mahogany as a potential color.
For the finish, I use the Behr brand of Tung Oil Finish that you can normally
find at Home Depot (Carp’s Note: I couldn’t get this anywhere…but
Behr Sells it direct from their online site). If not, you can use any of the
other brands, as long as it says "tung oil finish". You don't want
just straight tung oil.
While
there isn't any cosmolene on that rifle, you still might want some spray shellac.
It's also available at Home Depot or any good paint shop or home store.
First,
I'd use the steel wool and really rub that entire stock down hard with the
wool and lacquer thinner or acetone. That will remove any left over crud on
your rifle that will clog the sandpaper. Do a really good job of scrubbing.
Stay with the grain and just scrub it down top to bottom. When you're done,
let it sit in the sun until it's perfectly dry. It won't take long but the
sun will evaporate any of the liquid left on it so the surface feels nice
and dry. You should notice a slight improvement in the color of the damage
in the butt to the rest of the wood at this point. There will still be a difference,
however.
Now,
take some 180 paper. You're going to attempt to smooth that stock, working
with the grain only. Work from the butt forward. As you sand, you'll be only
removing the minutest of the stock. You won't be reshaping anything or lose
any of the cartouches or carvings. All you want to do here is eliminate the
demarcation line between the damaged area to the good areas of the stock.
When
you've finished with the 180, go over the whole thing again with 220, just
to smooth thing up a little. Don't try to sand out the dings and dents, just
smooth them as best you can.
When
that's done, the stock should look much more blond and the difference between
the damaged butt should be less noticeable.
Now,
you're going to want to spray two spit coats of shellac. Why? Because if you
don't anything you put on that stock will blotch in lots of places. Anyplace
there is grain open; at the wrist, any damaged area, or just anywhere on the
stock, when you put your color or oil on, those areas will get really dark.
That stock is going to be like a sponge and suck everything up. Wherever a
blotch can occur it would occur big time. So, you've got to seal it up using
the spray shellac. Just hang the stock vertical from the ceiling in your garage
or basement. I like to use wire coat hanger. Now just apply one quick coat
working up and down, covering everything. Let it dry (about 15 mins). Then
apply a second coat. Warning: This will make your stock look like crap. Don't
worry! When it's dry, take it down and now resand the entire rifle with 220
paper, but this time only sanding to the wood. You'll notice a lot of powder
which will be both the lubricant and the excess shellac. When you're done,
the stock should look uniform in color through and through with maybe the
exception of the damaged butt area. Again, you'll still notice some difference
there but not anywhere near as much as when you started.
Once
the sanding is done, you're ready for color. Apply the dye with a rag. MAKE
SURE TO WEAR LATEX GLOVES! Otherwise you're hands will be dyed for quite a
while. Just slather the dye on for one good application. Let it dry for about
30 mins. It will initially be dark but will dry much lighter. Now inspect
the stock to see how the butt looks. If necessary, you can apply a second
coat on the butt area, blending it into the rest of the stock. With a little
effort, multiple coats, and sufficient drying in between coats, the color
will slowly build, taking your eye away from the water damaged area.
Finally,
once you're finished with the coloring, let it dry in the sun for a few hours.
Now you're ready for your Tung Oil. Normally, I recommend using steel wool
to apply the first coat. In your case, since you've smoothed the stock twice
already, that won't be necessary here. Just put some very liberal coats on
and let it soak, then wipe it down and let it dry for an hour. Then keep applying
coats by wiping them in. Eventually, you'll get the rifle to a point where
you're happy with it. If the finish is too shiny at the end, just dip some
steel wool into the tung oil finish and rub out the entire stock then wipe
it down. You'll end up with a nicely burnished stock, complete with all its
cartouches and markings and with a finish that is repellant to water and handling.
This is a little time consuming but will be worth your efforts in the long
run.
Cabinetman
–
Gee, when I saw that 200 proof (pure) isopropyl alcohol being used, thought
I was mistaken. Let's see ... a little for the stock ......a little for me
... a little for the stock .........etc.
Actually,
I don't know if that material works as well as regular-old, cheap denatured
alcohol. DA has other ingredients in it that may be what actually softens
up the shellac. Pure alcohol probably works but I'd consider trying the DA
first. Just add that as item #1 in your restoration.
Also,
as you're discussing this with your helper, the point about oiling over shellac
may come up. Remember that you're going to remove about 95% of the shellac
you spray on that rifle. The only places it will remain is in any open grain
(the blotching kind) and deep within the divots and dings. So, the tung oil
finish won't be affecting it at all. I'm also glad you're able to find the
dye. It's a NGR type which stands for "non grain raising" and won't
affect your finish in the least.
You'll
end up with a nice stock, properly preserved and very attractive. There is
no reason to have a stock that is all beat up with the finish falling off.
There is also no reason to try to make it perfect. That would be dishonest
and also would be disrespectful to the history it's seen. I'm sure that you're
going about this in good shape.
Carphunter
–
Thanks for the reply. Should help a lot. I believe I also told you, I am going
to try a little denatured alcohol on it in case the 200 proof iso didn't get
it all.
Next
couple of questions...when shellacing, coloring and oiling, should I do the
underside/inside (barrel inletting, action, etc.)? I ask because I can tell
there wasn't shellac there to begin with, but would this help the stock if
it gets out in the elements?
Carphunter
-
Helper just warned me about the dye. About the fact that the first spot it
hits the wood, you end up with edges that are tough to blend out. But, in
looking at that site you sent me, if you're referring to using the 15-minute
wood stain 15
minute wood stain. I see mention of the fact that it doesn't "lap."
I'm assuming that's referring to the same problem. That should also make it
easier to build up the color of the butt without edges in the blends to the
rest of the stock. Is this the stuff you are referring to using? Or what particular
Behlen product am I trying to find?
Cabinetman
–
The NGR dyes are all "non lapping". None of the Behlen dyes will
do that. It's because of the medium they are in. It isn't just straight alcohol
like in the old days. That was tough and the dyes needed to be sprayed. With
the Behlen "solar-lux" dyes, you won't have to worry about lap.
The 15 minute wood stain will also not lap. It's a combo of stain pigment
and dye. It's really makes for a beautiful finish on furniture. As with the
dye, there is no finish in either product, just pure color. The 15 min pigmented
stain is much much heavier and I don't believe you'll have to use it although
if the dye fails to mitigate the damaged wood and clean wood well enough,
you can easily go with the 15 min stain as it certainly will do that. You
can make anything look like anything else with that 15 min stain and it hides
lots of defects.
Carphunter
–
I can only find 180 grit in something called 3m Sandblaster. Doesn't say whether
it's aluminum or silicon, but it does say it has some coating to prevent clogging.
As
for silicon 220 and 320, I can find the standard dark gray 3m stuff ( in the
packs with the red/black check packaging, but it doesn't say lubed, or non
clogging. I did find some 3m 150 and 200 silicon stuff that's called non-loading,
it's almost blue in color.
Is the dark gray stuff ok (and the 180 sandblaster stuff), or do I need to
find this bluish looking stuff in the right grit?
Cabinetman
–
That "sandblaster" isn't the same stuff. The silicone carbine paper
is lubricated or "stearated" and is always gray. Aluminum oxide
is also sometime used. Here's a link
that does offer it but the shipping is horrible as they are mostly a commercial
supplier although you can purchase a few sheets of each grit for future use.
WoodCraft stores carry it as does Woodworkers Warehouse. This stuff is not
wet or dry paper, either. Just keep poking and you'll find it.
Carphunter
–
That stuff that your link showed me is the same bluish gray stuff I found
in one store. Unfortunately, they only had certain grits. If I can't get 180
for the initial rough up, is 150 too coarse? I think they had like 220 or
240 and then something in the 300's (either 320 or 340)
Cabinetman
–
Anything over 220 is not good to use. You'll end up "polishing"
the wood. Use the 150 judiciously and then go to 220 if you can't find 180.
Use 320 to 'sand the finish' as it will only take off the excess shellac.
Carphunter
–
Found the sandpaper and am ready for comments on my work with the 180. I think
it took me 1 and 3/4 sheets of sanding paper to get it where it is now (I
managed to figure out that even though the paper is non-loading, it still
wears out like regular sandpaper).
I
worked it over. I was a little concerned, couldn't tell if the stuff sluffing
off was wood or some kind of finish. In the end, I decided it was wood (I
also hit a couple of places with denatured again and nothing seemed to come
off ... although the rag discolored ... think it's just because the sanding
dust has a color). Is there any way to be damn sure the finish is gone?
Anyway,
here's where I'm at. Anything you'd suggest hitting again with 180 before
I do 220?
I
did hit the inside of the barrel channel. Don't know if I need to, but I was
trying to be kind of thorough. I only did visible areas of the receiver inletting,
though.
Take
a look at the top of the barrel channel areas on both the handguard and main
stock. Those areas didn't really rough up much ...couldn't really dig in there.
(wood seemed harder there). Anything to worry about? (I'm going to quick try
some lacquer thinner on it to make sure it's not a finish).
Wherever
there are dings that the sand paper didn't enter, when I shellac and sand
with the 320, won't these get covered and not take dye?...or doesn't it really
matter?
I
have to jump ahead in the process to ask a couple of questions since I think
I'll probably have to order the dye.
The
color you suggested ... medium red mahagony ... sems real red. When I tung
oil over the top, will it brown up? or how much color shift should I expect?
I've found one pic on the web that showed what appeared to be an "original"
finish that still really showed non-worn color. It looked reddish, but not
like that color you showed me. Do you know of any good pics that show where
people are getting to in coloring these things? It's just weird to me that
people don't make them more brown like a modern walnut stock. If they don't
color shift once the tung is over them, would the blood red, medium brown
mahogany, or light red perhaps give a softer red color in the end (without
swinging to orange)? Oh, you don't know if Behlen's has a web site do you?
or might you have their phone number? I'm asking because I might want to try
and get them to mail me a printed color sample of this stuff.
Where
do you order dye from? You listed one place in a previous e-mail, but you
said their shipping was kinda whacked. I will also tell my helper to check
his woodworking catalogs to see if any of his regular suppliers stock the
stuff.
Cabinetman
–
The stock looks just as it should at this point. You can work a few of those
dings an depressions further if you want, but you'll never get them all out
and you don't have to try. The colorant you put on there will hide them well
enough.
Now,
you've reached an important point in the project. If you were to go ahead
and apply color right now, or even just oil right now, you'd be very disappointed.
There are loads of places were that rifle stock has blotching points. I can
tell from just looking at a few of your well-taken photos that this stock
will want to look like crap unless you can control the penetration of the
rest of the finish process. The way you're going to do that is with the shellac.
First
off, don't worry about the inletting. Just hang the stock vertically from
a coat hanger from the ceiling, grab a can of clear shellac from your local
home center or paint store, and apply two coats of shellac onto the stock.
Someone once asked me how much to put on. I described it by suggesting that
he take about two seconds for each pass top to bottom or bottom to top, covering
the whole thing.
Important: As I've said in the past, the stock will look like crap at this
point. DON'T WORRY! When it's dry, take your 220 and sand the stock down to
the wood, only. You're not looking to take any wood off at all. The excess
shellac is all your wanting to remove and don't work hard to get it out of
everything. It will seal that stock so that most, if not all, potential blotching
areas are now sealed and the stock is ready for color.
Now,
regarding your question about color application, that's a tough area. It's
sometimes tough to decide on what color/colors to use. You can mix color,
btw. If the red mahogany is too red, pick up some brown and just experiment
with colors until you get it right. You can also layer colors on the stock
but that can be a little tricky. I know, I know, it can get expensive if you
have to buy two or three colors until you find one that works.
Now,
this is important too. I'm looking at that stock and it's seen a lot of wear.
There are lots and lots of impact points on it and there is a lot of "mottling"
present. That doesn't bode well for dyes. Now that I'm looking at your great
photos, I'm going to say that I'd lean toward using the "15 minute"
Behlen stain instead of straight dye. The 15 minute stain (really and dye/stain
combo) will provide you with a much better, deeper and more intense color
for your wood. I think your stock would benefit from it much, much more than
just a clear dye. Now, you can certainly try dye first. It won't harm anything.
You can always apply the dye/stain later. However, I've done a lot of work
with old stocks and I see the tell-tale signs of a disappointing outcome with
a straight dye here. You've got too many shaded areas that the dye can't/won't
hide. In addition, the dye/stain will really help mitigate any differences
in wood tone, especiallyin the butt.
So,
look here:
I use this page
just because it's easy to navigate and has the current color charts. On this
page, you'll see in the upper left corner "15 min wood stain" which
is the dye/stain and in the right hand column, about half way down, "Solar-Lux"
stain which is the straight dye. The "15 min wood stain" is the
dye/stain I'm talking about. The Solar-Lux is the NGR dye. Remember, both
of these are anti-lap so forget about that issue altogether.
Now,
select each one and you'll be sent to an order page. At the top of the page,
in red, you'll see the appropriate color chart for each colorant. Notice that
the dye/stain colors are more vibrant and deeper. The dyes are lighter and
less noticeable. Look carefully at the 15 min stain chart and I'll bet you'll
be able to find something there that will work for you.
I'll
endorse both of these products 100%. I've use them for many years commercially
under the "Mohawk" brand. The retail brand is Behlen. Both products;
the dye and the stain, have a place. Many times I'll use them in conjunction
with each other, primarily when I'm matching new wood to old. It's a long
story but suffice it to say, this brand is the preeminent brand on the market.
You'll find competitors, but I know this stuff works. So, find a color in
the 15 min stain list and order it up. Now, I'll tell you that this stuff
will clean up with mineral spirits but there is a proprietary thinner for
it. You won't be thinning it anyway so just use spirits to clean your brush
and hands. This stuff also smells. The dyes have no smell at all. Make sure
you open some windows when you use it. Also know that there is no other finish
in that can. All this is is pure color. You can apply it with a brush and
then wipe it down. You can use a rag. You can also spray it. Leaving it on
will penetrate deeper. Ultimately you can adjust the color up and down this
way and "fix" any stubborn areas. It's a heavy material and you'll
need to stir the can regularly to keep the pigment up.
Once
you're done, you can oil directly over it or you can seal it in with one very
quick spit coat of shellac once again. I'd recommend that, actually. Then
you can oil it but you'll use steel wool to apply your first coat of oil over
the spit coat. That will smooth out and burnish the finish nicely. If you
decide to apply oil directly over the dye/stain, you'll get some "pull
away" so be prepared for that. It shouldn't be much, however.
I'd
also recommend that you experiment on a scrap piece of wood before you make
your final application to your stock wood. Remember, however, you're really
looking for technique here and not so much for finished color. Any new wood
will wear that color differently than your old rifle stock wood.
I'll
conclude by saying this:
* Spit Coat that stock now
* Sand it with 220 paper, just to the wood
* Use the "15 Minute Stain" on that stock instead of Solar-lux dye
to get more color depth
* Spit Coat one more time to seal it in.
* Apply your tung oil finish using steel wool, rubbing out the stock as you
apply the oil
Also,
remember that your stock won't look nice until almost the very last step.
In the interim, it'll look muddy, it'll look crappy, and you'll get nervous.
Please trust me on this. Once you get to the oiling step and you finish applying
that first coat of oil with the wool, you should be very pleased. Three or
four coats of oil later, you'll be very pleased. We grew up with the "finish
in a can" mentality. If you can't get a nice finish with one step, something
may be wrong. Here, you are "building" a finish and it won't be
done until you're done. So, don't lose site of this important information
I'm sharing with you. You've done a lot of work so far and following the process
I've outlined along with the products I'm suggesting will guarantee that you'll
end up with a first-class job. The hardest part you'll have to do is choose
your color and keeping your patience.
Carphunter
–
Going to check some stores locally today for the 15-minute stain. Question...If
I get Red Mahogany (or perhaps the light Mahogany), and Medium Mahogany, would
I be able to mix up a predominately brown stain with a red twinge? Or doesn't
this stuff mix like that? I know that when mixing paint, you start with your
light color and add little bits of the dark to achieve the color you want,
but I didn't know if the mechanics of the stain work the same. I should have
plenty of test wood to try the colors out on ...
Cabinetman
Yes, you can certainly mix and match until you find what you're looking for.
Mix a teaspoon at a time together and apply that to a test piece of lumber
until you're satisfied.
Carphunter
–
The Burnt Umber color doesn't look bad, either, but I don't get why there
are two tones shown in the chart.if they're on different woods, or what.
Cabinetman
–
What you're seeing there is two different applications. The light one would
be applied and the immediately wiped. The second would be two or three layers
left intact. You could do that with all the stains listed there. That's the
control you'll have with these colorants.
Carphunter
–
If I get the wood wet with water, will that give me any indication how much
it will darken when the stain applies? I know I have to do test staining,
just curious if the wood will also darken with the stain applied...thus making
the end result much darker than the color swatches on the web page.
Cabinetman
–
Performing the "licked thumb print test" will only show you what
the stock will look like with clear put on it. To get an even better result,
wipe a little mineral spirits on. That shows you the way the wood will respond
to any clear coat, including oils although oils will tend to be darker. Tung
oil will be much lighter than BLO. So, it won't show you what the stain will
do. The stain will change the color dramatically. You can apply a first coat
and immediately wipe it away. Let it dry for about 15 mins. Then apply a second
coat, let it sit, and then lightly wipe it. Since this is only color, if you
wipe it hard, you'll get right back to the first coat again. The stain is
designed to layer up until you get the depth of color you're looking for.
When you've got that and allow it to dry completely, the finish will be a
completely dull flat with no hint of depth of color. That will only come up
as you apply your clear coat over it, such as oil or shellac then oil.
Carphunter
–
The one question I'm still wondering about is does the tung oil have a color?
That is, does it brown up whatever color is beneath it? So in my case, if
I go with the reddish stain, will it make it more brown?
Cabinetman
–
Tung oil does have a "honey" color to it which initially won't be
too apparent but as you layer more coats on, it will. More to the point, however,
tung oil won't darken the wood as much as blo will. For some reason having
nothing to do with the color of the oil itself, blo is just heavier in body
and lays darker on lumber than does tung oil. It lays much much lighter than
BLO. My suggestion is that you stain up some scrap and oil 1/2 with tung and
1/2 with blo. Please don't use pine, btw. Try to find a scrap of maple or
even oak. Pine reacts totally differently and is not a good test lumber.
Carphunter
I'm sanding. One of the posts (or your replies) said use 320 to take off excess
shellac. One said 220. 320 barely seems to cut into it. 220, I think I'm going
back down (and into) wood. I did the handguard first, and am not sure if I
maybe went to far. My only gauge at this point, is trying to get past the
point where I can see the definite sheen of shellac.
How do I know when I'm through the shellac, but not too deep into wood?
Cabinetman
–
You'll know when you see the raw wood exposed. It won't take much. Go ahead
with the 220. I will sometimes start with 320 but if the shellac isn't rock
hard, then 220 will be fine. It will be like you're trying to remove it, that's
all.
Carphunter
–
Also, the little pock marks and compression dings ... do I have to really
work on those to get the shellac out of them? Or will they not be a problem
(stain will cover...or you won't see them, or what)?
Cabinetman
–
Yep. Just sand them as best you can without going into any contortions trying
to clear them. They'll be there no matter what.
Carphunter
–
How does the stain interact with shellac? If there's a place I don't get it
all off, will I have a bare patch (like painting watercolor paint over crayon)?
Cabinetman
This dye/stain isn't anything like you've used before. It will cover everything.
Will it pull away from "hard" areas. Yes. But, you can easily dab
over them or wait until the first coat dries and then revisit any spots you
think are needing attention.
Carphunter
–
I'm going to stop until I hear back from you on this. don't want to have done
this stage and then negate the effect by going too far or not far enough.
Cabinetman
–
I think you'll do just fine. Just sand away to the surface then apply your
stain. Now, I suggested that you try it on a bare piece of scrap wood. I highly
recommend that just so you'll see how it goes on and how dark/light it can
get.
Carphunter
–
Before I hit the hay, I took one more look at the stock. I saw a couple places
that didn't seem to sand well (mainly in the finger grooves and in the inletting.
Hit them with lacquer thinner. I can tell there was still some finish there.
Not sure if it would have been lacquer or just stubborn shellac. I'm going
to carefully eyeball it and do spot clean ups where necessary this afternoon
Carphunter
–
Well, actually, after e-mailing you, I just went at it with the 320 (figured
it would be tough to dig into too much wood).
Slight concern that I may have opened up some areas (gotten below the shellac),
and it will stain more than the rest...but I guess I'm not overly concerned.
I am going up to my helper's place to hit the wood bin and start doing color
tests (helper's got lots of cherry, oak, maple scraps that I can try to use
to guesstimate a color).
Now,
this is out a little bit, but you said it might be better to shellac over
the stain before using tung oil. How well well will the tung oil sit over
the shellac...or will it actually eat into it? Or, if the stain has fully
dried, would it be fairly safe to just tung oil right on it? Aside from pull-up
with the tung directly on stain, what are the pros or cons of either approach?
Cabinetman
–
I'd shellac the stain. It'll build your finish so much faster that it'll make
your head spin. So, go ahead and shoot it after the stain is on.
Just let the shellac dry completely. It will NOT be affected by the oil, period.
Buy rather than sand the shellac to make it perfectly smooth, just apply your
first coat of oil with 0000 steel wool and rub it in. That'll smooth out any
remaining imperfections in the stock and make it look nicely burnished. What
you're doing here is "building a finish". We're all so used to having
stuff come right out of a can that we've lost the ability to learn to build
finishes. Each step builds on the last. So, don't be concerned. When you've
finished coloring, and you'll love the results, you'll shoot the stock with
one more spit coat of shellac, let it dry overnight to make sure it's nice
and hard. Then go ahead and apply a very very liberal coat of tung oil finish
using the steel wool. Work with the grain. You'll be shocked at just how pretty
that stock will be, even with all the dings and dents. Let it sit for about
30 mins. Then wipe it down completely and apply a second coat of oil with
a rag. Let that sit for 30 mins, the wipe it down completely. Now let the
stock sit over night once again. The last day, wipe it down with some oil
on a rag.....................and that's it. Every once and a while, just rub
it with some oil on a rag to keep it pretty.
Carphunter
–
Also...dumb bunny me ... I didn't grab a can of the thinner when I got the
stain. I just reread one of your last posts because I was thinking if I didn't
like the color I get going with (or see some other problem), I could just
hit it with mineral spirits to back the color out. Now I see I'd need that
thinner to do it. darn it ... What type of thinner might I use if I have to
try and back any color off (in a worst case scenario)?
Cabinetman
–
You can use mineral spirits to remove the stain from the stock. It's just
not the proper material to thin this special stain.
Carphunter
–
Well, did some color mock ups. Ended up with about an even mix of Red Mahogany
and Dark American Walnut. Ended up with a slightly reddish chocolate brown.
Learned
some things. Helper was showing my how you stain. You put it on, then wipe
off excess. Well, I did the rifle and it went on thick. I looked at it and
said...that's actually where I want it for color, so we didn't wipe any off.
Let it dry. Saw a couple of light spots I didn't like, so I tried to add back.
Well, when putting it on, the transport agent kind of lifted some of the preceding
stain, so I got some light streaks. Did this for a while, and finally got
it back the way I liked it.
Found
an interesting imperfection that I must not have sealed...or opened up. At
one point in front of the sling, the grain must be real open, because I would
end up with almost a perfect vertical line on the stock (opposite the knot
on the other side of the stock). You see it if you look from the front of
the stock back. If you look from the butt forward, you don't see it. We worked
on dabbing and feathering the finish to blend this area. Letting it dry overnight
before shellacing. She also showed me how you can work a little bit of stain
(or the heavy areas) back with steel wool. Man, you can really make it look
slick).
The
butt of the rifle where it was so beat kind of looks dull, or I should say
there isn't much grain to see there, but that's kinda how it looked before.
Also,
when I did my color tests, I shellaced the samples, let them dry some, and
then applied Minwax tung oil finish with steel wool. Get some imperfections
that stand up because of the wool that breaks off. Helper said that's why
she never uses steel wool to apply finish...you never get that stuff out of
it, and you can't really cover it. Is the reason you said to use it to actually
add these bumps? Or did you mean smooth out the shellac with wool, then start
applying the tung with cloth?
Also,
I didn't realize how shiny the tung oil would be. when applying the finish,
is there some way to lessen this? or do you wait until you're done, and then
sand slightly, or wool it to dull it a little? Or do I want it shiny? Are
there "semi-gloss," or "matte" tung oils? I didn't know
if this was because I was using minwax versus something else. (Woodcraft -
where I got the stain, only had their store brand of tung oil. can't find
behr's anywhere around here.
Cabinetman
–
It sounds like you're on firm ground,. Most of your project will be your own
work and experience as I can't be there to do anything for you. So, this is
a learning curve and you'll end up applying colorant, sealers, and oils all
on your own. You'll get the hang of it eventually. Remember, that all of this
is reversible. Just grab some mineral spirits and some steel wool and you
can scrub almost all of this off and start again. That's the beauty of building
a finish like this, yet the final result is durable and authentic.
Regarding
the wool/shellac question. I will usually recommend that guys remove excess
shellac before they color. After color, if they've used dyes, I'll usually
say go ahead an oil. If they use the heavier dye/stain, I'll recommend a spit
coat and then oil. This eliminates the pull back of the stain. IF your spit
coat is light enough, you can oil right over it and apply it with steel wool
which will smooth it out, and save you a number of excess coats of oil. Actually,
there is no one perfectly right or wrong way. Just know that all this stuff
works together and, again, if you don't like it, remove it and start again.
Finally, tung oil will build to a shiny finish. No problem. Get the build you're looking for and then, as your final coat, take some 0000 steel wool, dip it in the oil as a lubricant, and then rub out the stock with the grain. That will kill any shine that's left, especially after you wipe it down.
Cabinetman -
It certainly seems to be turning out just fine. Remember, after you last coat of tung dries, to kill any shine, just take a new piece of 0000 wool, dip it in tung oil, and rub out the whole stock. That'll burnish up the stock just fine to a nice, low luster. As soon as you're done with the rubout, wipe the entire stock down with a clean towel. From time to time you'll be able to "rejuvenate" the finish by doing that again.
Carphunter -
That's
the plan. I figured if I worked with the wool and wet tung oil, when done,
I could wipe out any "fuzzies" from the wool with a cloth. (Although,
I wonder if this won‚t negate the affect of the wool).
What happens if 've let it fully dry, and then do the wool/oil rub out? Any
probs?
Cabinetman -
First,
of all the only reason anyone gets "fuzzies" is because they use
steel wool dry. There isn't one single case I can think of that I'd ever use
wood dry. I always use a "lubricant", even if it's water. This is
a "secret" that few people know outside of pro finishers.
Using oil as a lubricant is the perfect medium with steel wool. There is even
a product called "wool lube" on the market which is a light oil
just for finishing fine furniture. We'll use the same oil we've finished with
here, however. And it makes no difference if you let it dry and then rub it
out. Actually, that is preferred as the oil will have time to cure out eliminating
the possibility of pulling too much away when you do rub it out. Let it sit
in the dry air for a week if you can. Then just dip the wool into the oil
and rub out the entire stock. You'll create a very accurate and appropriate
finish on that stock.
Carphunter -
Well,
I proceded to the steel wool step.
Darn it.
I have found an area on the left side of the butt where the finish doesn't
really look the same as the rest. I can't tell if I over rubbed it (I don't
think that's probably it), or if the tung oil didn't set up right at some
point. Most of the rest of the rifle seems ok...'cept maybe a little light
over the name in the front end of the stock.
I'm thinking I may put another coat on and rub it down hard (with cloth not
wool), then let it dry and leave it...even if it is shiny.
Cabinetman -
The beauty of this type of finish is that it's repairable. Just go ahead and put on some more of the oil, let it dry, and then continue to rub it out. There's no harm done.
Carphunter -
Finito
Well...for now
Cabinetman -
Wow.
Excellent results but you worked your arse off on that one. It was worth it,
however, and that rifle now has a long, useful life ahead of it. I'll bet
the last soldier to hold it would be very impressed! The butt area came out
fine, btw. It was really damaged by that water so don't be concerned. The
texture of the wood has just changed somewhat, that's all.
I'll go check out the forum for your post. Again, great job.
