Safa Haeri asks how far the writer's predicament has really changed and talks to exiled Tunisian Islamist Rashed Ghannoushi about the future of "Islamic democracy."

EXCERPTS:

Rashed Ghannoushi, the 57-year-old exiled leader of the Tunisian outlawed "Al-Da'wa" Islamic Party, believes that ... the future of Islam lies with democracy and freedom." He adds that Iran, "where a real democracy is taking shape with [President] Ayatollah Mohamad Khatami," could set a model for an Islamic state. ...

Ghannoushi is visibly upset by the developments in Afghanistan, where Taliban leaders have imposed a strict brand of Islamic shari'a on the population, especially women. "Taliban are also Muslim, but what they are doing puts Islam to great shame," says the soft-spoken Ghannoushi.

The following are extracts from the interview, which was conducted before this week's Anglo-Iranian declaration on the Rushdie fatwa:

The Islamic world has gone through many developments over the past few years: the Taliban in Afghanistan, the election of Mohamad Khatami in Iran, the situation in the Middle East following the election of [Israeli Prime Minister Binyamin] Netanyahu, the situation in Algeria.

What's your reaction and what do you expect out of all this?

The situation is complex and getting more complicated. There are conflicts between moderate and radical Islam, between dictatorships and people who fight to liberate themselves from these systems.

In the Middle East, the situation continues to be dominated by the Arab-Israeli conflict. Because the problem has not found a just solution, other conflicts continue unabated, benefiting the existing regimes.

Another problem in this region is with the West. It has done its best to help the former communist countries towards democratisation, while in the Middle East, it has not only done nothing to help in this regard, but in some cases, as in Algeria, has prevented the democratisation process by supporting the military.

In my opinion, the future of Islam lies in democracy and freedom. The culture of this region, being Islamic, dictates that democratisation can be achieved only through Islam. That's why we regard as very positive what Khatami has achieved since coming to power a year ago. In fact, the Iranian experience can be extended to other Muslim nations for, at present, Iran is the only Muslim country moving towards a real democracy and at the same time taking into account its own great culture, civilisation and heritage.

We cannot import Western systems as they are and implant them in our societies.

You said earlier that one should not impose anything by force, be it democracy or Islam. Can you be more explicit? In my opinion, it's illegitimate to impose anything on a people

or a nation, even if it is Islam.... No people will accept a system imposed by force. They will reject it sooner or later. The communist experience is a case in point.

In other words, the army can rule in Algeria, Tunisia and other Arab countries with the help of the West, but not for long.

When you see what is happening in Afghanistan and what the Taliban are doing in the name of Islam, what's your reaction?

I feel ashamed. The Taliban are an obstacle in the way of Islam. ... [T]hey represent an underdeveloped, uncultured Islam ... The Taliban are imposing a decadent [form of] Islam.

You accuse Western nations of supporting Islamic dictatorships. Would you say the same thing about the Americans and their reported relationship with the Taliban?

I don't have any proof of Americans helping the Taliban. Maybe they are helping and if they are, it's because they are against Iran ... . Seen from that perspective, this is not the first time the Americans have ... adopted the wrong policy.

Considering what the Taliban are doing in the name of Islam, don't you think the time has come for Muslim scholars to envisage reforming their doctrine?

The notion of reform is unacceptable in Islam for the simple reason that our religion does not need to be reformed. However, what we need to do is to rethink Islam, which is a religion that can be taught and understood in different ways.

Although Islam is God's last word, it is at the same time very flexible....

One has to free Islam from decadence, from the Taliban, from damaging beliefs inherited from our ancestors, from those who, for example, say that Islam is against democracy, against the freedom of women, against arts, against free elections, against dialogue between civilisations... against those who pretend that because we are Muslims, we must invade others and impose our faith upon the whole world.

In Islam, we don't have a church, an authority which defines what is Islam. Whoever pretends he has such authority is preaching blasphemy.

But how does one free Islam from the 'decadence' of the Taliban?

By doing, for example, what Khatami is doing in Iran.... Khatami is, in fact, trying to liberate Islam of its decadent heritage. His nomination of a woman as vice-president is a good example. Some clerics would pretend this is not Islamic. But since Khatami is himself a learned scholar he cannot be suspected of wanting to change Islam or not knowing Islam or not being a true Muslim.

. . . What is your feeling about the fatwa against Salman Rushdie?

I think Rushdie has deeply insulted Muslim feelings and the Islamic conscience. Yet, I think one should not react with violence against anyone who insults us.

Within Islamic society we have many people writing and saying negative things about Islam.

You don't approve then of the fatwa?

No. But I'm angrier with the level of respect the West has shown Rushdie. When he is received as a hero in the White House and 10 Downing Street and the Elysée, I think the message [it sends] is that Western civilisation is quite happy with what he has written and is very pleased when it harms our religion and our beliefs.

Do you think there is a solution?

Yes. I think Iran has declared that it will not send people to kill him.

But the government says it cannot change the fatwa.