Apologia pro Papa Innocentus IV
This is in reply to the postings made by 'heloisejmj.' Texts in red are her postings. (See Apologia Pro Papa Innocentus IV - 3. Prax Maskaren. 20th Feb., 2003. Sts. Eucherius; the Phoenician & Persian Martyrs - Tyrannius, Sylvanus, Zenobius, Peleus, Nilus, Sylvanus, Sadoth & Others.
It will now be 10 years this September since I left the New Church. In the months leading to that date, I had been managing the Parish Library, and around me a group of youth had gathered. However, I learnt later that one of these was secretly a Protestant, had been indoctrinating in Protestantism behind my back and had succeeded in subverting at least one. I then dissolved the group. These people have been telling me, and this is going on over so many years, that they are seeking and searching and studying the faith: I reject this as a lie, and state that this is evidence of bad faith, the refusal to correspond to God's Grace and to learn the truths of the faith, which will put to end this stage of inquiry. It is unnatural that this stage of inquiry should be so prolonged and even made indefinite! The truths of the faith are neither inaccessible nor incomprehensible!
I thank you for your long post regarding the Inqusition, etc. As you can see, this whole area really bothers me for I see inconsistencies between what you have written and the words of Christ.
It is extraordinary that you do: It is obvious that those 'inconsistencies' have been manufactured by you in your mind, borrowing from similar writings by those who are the enemies of Christ and His Church!
We can assume that the Church is guided by the Holy Spirit. Throughout history the Church has NOT changed its position on the CENTRAL things to the Faith - those things spelled out in the Nicene/Apostle's Creed.
However, can we assume that everything the saints said/wrote is infallible? Is that a tenet of the Church?
No, it is not.
Is there not room for enlightenment then?
What do you mean by 'enlightenment'? Is that a codeword for heresy, as in lets adopt a new meaning for an old word?
No room for the expansion of charity to others besides fellow Catholics?
Charity for others besides fellow-Catholics? Please stop hiding and come out in the open. You want to say that we do not have charity for non-Catholics? Say it freely.
But it is only a lie. We lack Charity? And, obviously, because you counterpose Catholicism to the New Thought, you impugn not just contemporary Catholics, but Catholics down the ages.
But it is a certain fact, that if any at all had charity, it was and is us! It was charity that made missionaries abandon homes and families, loved ones and the normal human hopes for domestic happinesses to witness the Gospel to perfect strangers, for this is the highest charity - not material, but spiritual - the salvation of souls.
And we have always been right up in the front even materially. No other religion has a record that even approaches ours - whatever the detractors of the Holy Inquisitions may say! It is we who preserved the learning of the Roman Empire when the barbarians overran the Mediterranean. It was we who educated the people, we who set up hospitals, we who sought out the lepers and destitutes and provided for them. It was we who sought out the captives and freed them. It was we that set the pagans of the New World free from gross cannibalism and brought them into civilization. It was we that created the Renaisance and the Age of Discovery, with Catholics pioneering the way around Africa to the East, and discovering the New World.
No room for an expanding role of women besides bearing children?
This is a VICIOUS LIE. Catholicism has never restricted the role of women to merely bearing children. Childbearing and parenting is a noble and essential vocation, but it is neither imposed nor suggested as the only avenue open to women. Nor that religion is the only other avenue. Popes and the Church did not seek out and condemn women who choose neither to be homemakers nor to be religious. The Holy Inquisitions never sought out and punished women who choose neither homemaking nor the religious life.
No room for music, etc. of other cultures?
The Church is always open to men of all cultures. We have always taken up the artforms of peoples and removing all superstitions, depaganized and Christianized them, purified and improved them.
What did CHRIST advocate? What did HE say? What did HE do?
The Church has always faithfully done exactly and no more and no less than what Christ commanded, and commands. And he who alleges otherwise, voices the condemned proposition of the Anglicans, "that Rome has sometimes erred, even in matters of faith and discipline." (Not a verbatim quotation.)
Perhaps the use of power in the past was appropriate, I don't know. Most people were not educated and were illiterate. They travelled little, knew little of other cultures, etc. This is not the case today. Men AND women are educated. It is not just the clergy anymore that are literate and have education. The use of power nowadays seems counterproductive to me
This is the greatest stupidity, arrogance and blasphemy. We of this age are not superior to the past ages. The use of power in the proper circumstances was justified then and is justified now. In matter of fact, today is one of the worst of all times, for there is, coupled with Universal Apostacy, universal repudiation of sense, law, order, morality, the whole works.
and the keeping of the laity in roles of extreme submission to the clergy is outmoded.
It is not true that the laity was ever kept in a state of 'extreme submission to the clergy'. To allege this is to blaspheme the Church.
As this discussion goes further along, I can see why, coupled with the scandals of the clergy and the use of their power over others for their own satisfaction, the Reformation happened and why, throughout history, millions have hated the Catholic Church.
The sins of the Pope justifies his being considered a sinner, but it does not make him less the Pope, unless he were to depart into heresy. Ditto for bishops and priests.
There was not and is not any justification, ever, for the Protestant Deformation of the Holy Faith, whatever quarrels one may have or not have against particular clerics, immoral or otherwise. The millions who have abandoned the Church and who have hated it, have just sought for excuses to justify themselves, and their own sins, being inwardly sold to Satan. They never belonged to us...
Perhaps the belief of the Vat-II church is that it is trying to remedy this breach and make up for its actions in the past and shifting NONESSENTIAL things to accomodate the changes in society?
Ah, at last you are shedding your mask!
You consider the First Commandment and the prohibition against Communicatio in Sacris to be NON-ESSENTIAL? All this evil, this heresy, this upturning and reversing of the established and irreversible definitions of the Holy Faith are NON-ESSENTIAL?
But all this is in vain, for what the V2 sect is upto is pure and untrammelled heresy and apostacy, plain and simple. Of course it is the same thing as the Protestant Deformation!
As I said, I am studying this topic for I need to know the truth.
Beware of those who keep on saying that they are studying and studying and studying, never arriving at a conclusion, for they have no desire to. They are like clouds that do not bear water. Their only desire is to be accepted by the unwary so that they can mislead them into heresy.
God gave us free will. Even GOD does not use His power to convert people to Christianity!!!
AND why didn't Christ use His power to convert? Why did He use His love instead? Why did He teach the primacy of humility? Why did He teach that in order to lead you must serve?
And the moral of the story is? That the Catholic Church, as against your New Church, did not love, was not humble, did not serve, used force and power to overawe people?
From:� "Maria Benedicta Gaetani" <pope_boniface_viii@y...>
Personally I think that one of the biggest mistakes made was the abolition of the Holy Inqisition. When the the Holy Inquisition was around, heresy had a tough fight on its hands. Now the heretics get away with anything, and nothing is done to stop them. Never forget that the Holy Inquistion was HOLY. And it was supported by many popes and saints of the church. We need a new Inquistion and a new Crusade.
Amen, amen, I say unto you! The present situation is essentially a law and order one, for it is that the Freemasonic, Noahide dupes of the Jews have, together with their masters, risen up and seized power everywhere and overthrown Christendom. And it is to be largely a military mission to reverse this. This is what I have been saying for many years, to any who will listen: We need not only missionaries, we need new military orders! We need new Livonian Knights, Teutonic Knights, Knights of St. John, etc., to undertake this huge mission!
We cannot win against these perverse people any other way; we will not be able to achieve our ends, and we will not be able to recover Rome and force the Modernist apostates and antipopes to evacuate Rome and the Vatican unless we recourse to this measure! And we must therefore plan accordingly, for we must be able to match the military power of our enemies!
This is indeed a radical program and an unpopular, even uncomfortable, saying, but if we are sincere in our beliefs, we must undertake it.
The only thing you can do to stop heresy is to live your life showing the joy you get from being a Catholic and to radiate Christ's love to others and to Our Lord.
Yes, we must throw out the Bible into the garbage can, and follow you and Gandhi and all the others who gainsay Christ, when in the Old Testament, for example, He tells us not to tolerate religious dissent and to exterminate the apostates, or when He complains against the Kings who failed to do so, or when, in the New Testament, through St. Paul or the other apostles, he excommunicated and expelled the immoral and the heretics, such as the Judaizers, etc.
And how different is this from Good Old Dog Roncalli, the Ba'al of Crassness, who said, lets throw out the Disciplinary Authority of the Church, and lets recourse only to the Medicine of Mercy instead? Of course, Disciplinary authority was not entirely dumped, but was kept over only to use against the Catholics, to punish and threaten them into compromise and apostacy! It was only 'dumped' in fiction and not in reality, in order to permit his brothers in the faith, and patrons, the Modernist cockroaches, hiding since St. Pius X gave them a severe thrashing, in the dark corners and nooks of the Church, the freedom at long last to come out into open!
People will then want what you have.
You cannot force anyone into being a Catholic - on paper, perhaps, but not in their souls.
The Church does not force anyone to be a Catholic, period. But in a predominantly Catholic Society, heretics cannot be tolerated in their work of perverting others, nor in the public performances of their impieties. Moreover, those who betray the faith are justly to be compelled to return to the truth: that is the clear and declared will of God.
What bothers me the most about the sedevacantist position (and I have never heard or read a good explanation with which I am yet satisfied) is - Why did God stop protecting His Church?
Given: God loves us. He wants our salvation and to be with Him in heaven.
Given: A Father who loves you, protects you. He does not lie to you.
Why, then, would He allow His OWN CHURCH to be defiled? He PROMISED us that we could trust His Church. WHY would He take back His promise?
The answer I have been given the most is that the TRUE (i.e. traditional) Church has not been defiled - that the VatII Church is not the true church.
I maintain that if He allows the Church of Rome and the POPE to be defiled, then He cannot be trusted, can He?
How can we trust Him if He doesn't keep His word?
It is amazing that innumerable saints of the Church have over the last two hundred centuries [correction: twenty centuries] laboured and thought and undergone many circumstances and speculated about other, yet abstract circumstances, and set down principles what must guide us in them, and here you do not know of their work!
How is the present situation any different from any problem as to how God permits any evil, big or small? And has this problem not already been discussed and thrashed out thread bare? Are we to reinvent the wheel?
Let not any one utter impious words such as that the Church of Rome and the Pope are, or have been, defiled. Let all who hope in the name of Catholic, on the contrary, hold without the leastest shadow of doubt the infallible Pastor AEternas of the last Œcumenical Council of the Church, the Vatican, of 1869-70, and which authoritatively teaches us: "in the Apostolic See the Catholic religion has always been kept unsullied, and its teachings kept holy," etc.
Dear Heloise,
If you sincerely desire to learn the Catholic faith, do not waste your time but procure a copy of such valuable books as The Church Teaches: Documents of the Church in English Translation by the Jesuit Fathers of St. Mary's, Kansas, the three volume Radio Replies of Fathers Lesley Rumble and Joseph Carty, and the Catechism Explained of Spirago-Clarke, all reprinted by TAN Publications, Rockford, Illinois, USA, and study them carefully.
I can assure you that if indeed you are sincere, all your misconceptions and the lies imparted by the Protestants and other heretics will be dispelled and you will become a fervent Catholic.
Prax Maskaren