--Got kidney stones? Don't drink soy milk or eat tofu, soy energy bars or just about anything else containing the otherwise healthful soybean. New research shows soy-based products could increase the risk of developing this painful urinary tract condition.
<snip>
"Under the current guidelines, there isn't a single soy-based food that would be appropriate for people
  who suffer with any condition for which oxalate represents a problem," says Massey.
<snip>
In addition to affecting stone formation, other research has shown that high oxalate foods can irritate a chronic gynecological condition called vulvar vestibulitis, a problem marked by extreme vulvar pain during intercourse, and sometimes even when walking or sitting. 

Massey's discovery about soy products also may be significant for women just before menopause, when the risk of vulvar pain increases and when many women turn to soy-based products for hormonal support. 

  "We plan to study isoflavones, a component of soy often found in many menopause-related products, to check oxalate levels here as well," says Massey. 

The observations from the Ishizuki Thyroid Clinic study indicate significant, goitrogenic effects in subjects fed 30 g soybeans per day. Based on the concentrations of isoflavones found in Japanese soybeans, 30 g of soybeans could contribute up to 23 mg total genistein and 10 mg of total daidzein. For a 70 kg adult this would equate to an intake of 0.33 mg/kg-body weight of genistein and 0.14 mg/kg-body weight of daidzein per day.

This amount of isoflavone consumption is approximately three times higher than the amount typically consumed in Japan, which is 0.08 to 0.13 mg/kg-body weight of total genistein per day for a 70 kg adult.

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Users of isoflavone supplements may consume up to 40 mg of genistein per day. For a 70 kg adult this is equivalent to 0.57 mg/kg-body weight basis of genistein per day which is about 1.7 times more than that found to have goitrogenic effects.

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.......Soy users should be aware of the potency of just 30 mg soy isoflavones per day. Thyroid disorders (see above for discussion on the active dose in the Ishizuki Thyroid Clinic study) and other biological effects have been observed at dose around this level.

As an approximate guide 30 mg of soy isoflavones can be found in:

Soybeans and soyflours: 9 - 20g (0.3 - 0.7oz).

Tofu: 50 - 110g (1.8 - 3.9oz).

Soy milks: 150 - 240g (5.3 - 8.5oz).

http://womenshealth.medscape.com/ASHP/AJHP/2001/v58.n08/ajhp5808.01.ches/ajhp5808.01.ches-01.html
Soy for Cardiovascular Indications
Elizabeth A. Chester, Pharm.D., BCPS, Clinical Pharmacy Specialist
[Am J Health-Syst Pharm 58(8):663, 660, 2001. © 2001 ASHP, Inc.]

Conclusion

Clinical studies suggest a positive effect of soy on blood lipids. Additional well-designed clinical trials are necessary before increasing the soy intake of the general population can be definitively recommended, although consuming more fruits and vegetables and fewer animal products is reasonable.[3] 

''You don't want to go overboard with soy,'' says Bonnie Liebman, who is director of nutrition at the Center for Science in the Public Interest in Washington, D.C.
<snip>

You especially don't want to take a soy supplement, energy bar, or powder that contains isoflavones, a chemical in soybeans...snip...But despite what makers of dietary supplements would have you believe, research has shown that isoflavones alone have little effect on cholesterol levels. ''It's probably the many different chemicals found in soy along with the fiber that work together synergistically to produce beneficial effects,'' says Claude Hughes, author of several studies on soy and director of the Center for Women's Health at Cedars-Sinai Medical Center in Los Angeles.

Worse, consuming isoflavones at high levels ''has been shown to have long-term detrimental effects,'' says Dr. Kenneth Setchell, a leading soy researcher and professor of pediatrics at the University of Cincinnati College of Medicine......

"Tofu Shrinks Brain!" Not a science fiction scenario, this sobering soybean revelation is for real. But how did the "poster bean" of the '90s go wrong? Apparently, in many ways — none of which bode well for the brain. 
<large snip about relevant study>

  The soy industry says that White's study only shows an association between tofu  consumption and brain aging, but does not prove cause and effect. On the other hand, soy  experts at the National Center for Toxicological Research, Daniel Sheehan, Ph.D., and Daniel Doerge, Ph.D., consider this tofu study very important. "It is one of the more robust, well-designed prospective epidemiological studies generally available. . . We rarely have such power in human studies, as well as a potential mechanism." 

In a 1999 letter to the FDA (and on the ABC News program 20/20), the two toxicologists expressed their opposition to the agency's health claims for soy, saying the Honolulu study "provides evidence that soy (tofu) phytoestrogens cause vascular dementia. Given that estrogens are important for maintenance of brain function in women; that the male brain contains aromatase, the enzyme that converts testosterone to estradiol; and that isoflavones inhibit this enzymatic activity, there is a mechanistic basis for the human findings." [3] 
<major snip>

The above article has many references at the end, including one to http://www.WestonAPrice.org/soy_alert.htmwhich lists potential hazards of soy

also Soy isoflavones - Panacea or Poison by Mike Fitzpatrick, PhD, MNZIC
http://www.WestonAPrice.org/isoflavones.htm
[An article] submitted to the FDA in an effort to block inclusion of estrogen-like compounds called isoflavones, found in large amounts in soy products, in the GRAS (Generally Recognized as Safe) list of ingredients in foods and medicines. 

Despite advertisements touting the powers of soy to stop or decrease hot flashes in women, a study by the North Central Cancer Treatment Group Clinic (NCCTG) based at the Mayo Clinic in Rochester, Minn, has found that cancer survivors who took soy pills did not experience any noticeable changes. The study is published in the March 1 issue of the Journal of Clinical Oncology.

 "Despite optimistic hopes that this soy phytoestrogen product would alleviate hot flashes, the scientific data from this study demonstrated that it did not help," said Charles Loprinzi, MD, a Mayo Clinic medical oncologist and one of the authors of the study. 

OVER the last several years, millions of Americans who had turned a deaf ear to the virtues of soy have had a change of heart. Sales of the lowly bean, which has been a staple of the Asian diet for millennia, have been skyrocketing because preliminary research suggested that soy has many life-enhancing benefits, from preventing bone density loss to easing some symptoms of menopause. 

.....Against the backdrop of widespread praise, however, there is growing suspicion that soy -- despite its undisputed benefits -- may pose some health hazards. The scientific world is divided over many of the claims for efficacy and over some safety issues, but there are two points on which there is agreement. Soy is useful for reducing cholesterol. And there may be an increased risk of cancer associated with consuming the components of soy called isoflavones in supplement form, particularly for post-menopausal women; and for these women, there may also be hazards in adding soy foods to their diets. 

.....Not one of the 18 scientists interviewed for this column was willing to say that taking isoflavones was risk free. Some particularly cautioned against it........

.....The scientists are worried that the public is interpreting the approval of soy protein as a recommendation to take soy supplements.....

If the abundance of phyto-oestrogen-enriched foods in health-food shops and supermarkets is anything to go by, the public is convinced of the health benefits of these weakly oestrogenic, plant-derived steroids. Enthusiasts promote plant oestrogens as the natural alternative to hormone replacement therapy (HRT), but, as with other "food therapies", public acceptance has raced ahead of medical consensus. "The field is driven by hype", admits Ken Setchell (Children's Hospital and Medical Center, Cincinatti, OH, USA) who identified phyto-oestrogens in human urine and blood some 20 years ago. 
<snip>
Meanwhile, with only 16% of women in the USA taking HRT, interest in a dietary approach to the management of the menopause is snowballing. But although some doctors welcome an alternative to HRT, others worry about the lack of knowledge. Susan Davis (Jean Hailes Foundation, Melbourne, Australia) is concerned that women are taking just one component from the Japanese lifestyle. "People now have the potential to go over the top, consuming far more phyto-oestrogens than any Japanese villager", she warns. 
<snip>
Three out of four case-control studies since 1991 have suggested that soy intake reduces breast-cancer risk, and a recent case-control study showed a decreased risk in women with high amounts of urinary phyto-oestrogens (Lancet 1997; 350: 990-94). 

But, says Herman Adlercreutz (University of Helsinki, Finland), although high urinary concentrations of enterolactone, a type of phyto-oestrogen rich in fruit and vegetables, correspond to a lowered breast-cancer risk, "these lignans are good biomarkers for a fibre-rich diet and may not be the active compounds". "There is really little support for plant factors", adds Graham Colditz (Harvard Medical School, Boston, MA, USA), who believes the low postmenopausal breast-cancer rates of Japanese women are more likely to be attributable to their high parity than to soy intake. 

Meanwhile, Davis is worried about the oestrogenic potential of phyto-oestrogens, noting that in a 1996 study increased soy intake correlated with an increase in the number of hyperplastic epithelial cells in breast fluid (Cancer Epidemiol Biomarkers Prev 1996; 5: 785-94). 

In the meantime bear in mind that the oftrepeated "fact" that Japanese/Asian women don't report hot flashes doesn't have to mean they don't *have* hot flashes - it could well be simply a taboo subject. Also be aware that some members of alt.support.menopause have reported *increased* hot flashes from taking soy.

Here's the final paragraph of http://gerson.org/soy.html about the downside of soy. I have no means of telling how reliable the source is. One point raised is that soy formulas could cause harm to infants, but I have recently read a study in major journal which did not find any evidence of this. No, I don't know who funded the study ;-)

The authors summarize all the above, and possible arguments that soy products have been used for many centuries in the Orient, as follows: "traditional fermented soy products have a long history of use that is generally beneficial when combined with other elements of the Oriental diet including rice, sea foods, fish broth and fermented vegetables. Precipitated (Western) soy products can cause serious problems, especially when they form the major source of protein in the diet."

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Food Labeling: Health Claims; Soy Protein and Coronary Heart  Disease
AGENCY: Food and Drug Administration, HHS.
ACTION: Proposed rule.
SUMMARY: The Food and Drug Administration (FDA) is proposing to  authorize the use, on food labels and in food labeling, of health  claims on the association between soy protein and reduced risk of  coronary heart disease (CHD). FDA is proposing this action in response  to a petition filed by Protein Technologies International, Inc. (the  petitioner). The agency has tentatively concluded that, based on the  totality of publicly available scientific evidence, soy protein  included in a diet low in saturated fat and cholesterol may reduce the  risk of CHD.

DATES: Written comments by January 25, 1999.

ADDRESSES: Submit written comments to the Dockets Management Branch  (HFA-305), Food and Drug Administration, 5630 Fishers Lane, rm. 1061,  Rockville, MD 20852.

FOR FURTHER INFORMATION CONTACT: Susan M. Pilch, Center for Food Safety  and Applied Nutrition (HFS-465), Food and Drug Administration, 200 C  St. SW., Washington, DC 20204, 202-205-4500.

Further snippet from the 15 segment post on Nov.18 to gov.us.fed.dhhs.fda.announce  subject: 63FR62977 Food Labeling: Health Claims; Soy Protein and Coronary Heart Disease:
 

In the proposed rule entitled ``Health Claims and Label Statements;  Lipids and Cardiovascular Disease'' (56 FR 60727, November 27, 1991),  FDA set out the criteria for evaluating evidence on diet and CVD  relationships. The agency focused on those aspects of the dietary lipid and CVD relationship for which the strongest scientific evidence and agreement existed. FDA noted that, because of the public health  importance of CHD, identification of ``modifiable'' risk factors for  CHD had been the subject of considerable research and public policy  attention. The agency also noted that there is general agreement that  elevated blood cholesterol levels are one of the major ``modifiable''  risk factors in the development of CHD. FDA cited Federal Government  and other reviews that concluded that there is substantial  epidemiologic and clinical evidence that high blood levels of total and low density lipoprotein (LDL) cholesterol are a cause of  atherosclerosis and represent major contributors to CHD. Further,  factors that decrease total blood cholesterol and LDL-cholesterol will  also decrease the risk of CHD. FDA concluded that it is generally  accepted that blood total and LDL-cholesterol levels are major risk  factors for CHD, and that dietary factors affecting blood cholesterol  levels affect the risk of CHD. High intakes of dietary saturated fat  and, to a lesser degree, of dietary cholesterol are consistently  associated with elevated blood cholesterol levels. FDA concluded that  the publicly available data supported an association between diets low  in saturated fat and cholesterol and reduced risk of CHD (58 FR 2739 at  2751).On Tue, 15 Dec 1998 14:35:01 GMT,

Tishy's comment:
Personally I find the stuff above full of weasel words - "generally accepted", "tentatively" concluded etc - but because this labelling is officially sanctioned, anybody reading the claim (despite the further weasel word "may") is likely to join those in "general agreement" about the  value of soy (and cholesterol as spoken of further down). The trouble is, it won't be "tentative" - it will be taken as fact. Yet again, if you say it often enough it becomes true - whether or not it actually is. Thus are factoids born. Isn't it the case here that the FDA is acting on factoids too?

A major stumbling block for me in all my rational analysis is that I have become so sceptical about *any* claim, that I *know* that I have to be throwing out some babies with the bath water. I must be rejecting out of hand *something* which would actually be good for me. Basically I can find reasons "why not" for anything - but as somebody said on another newsgroupp recently "Just because it hasn't been proved to work, doesn't mean it doesn't". 

So where does that leave us? Still trying to get both sides of the question - and seeing the plus side is always strongly highlighted by proponents, the website will continue to point out the minuses and dig out the rebuttals, and I shall continue to act the pessimist here ;-)

Scientific studies show that 25 grams of soy protein daily in the diet is needed to show a significant cholesterol lowering effect. In order to qualify for this health claim, a food must contain at least 6.25 grams of soy protein per serving, the amount that is one-fourth of the effective level of 25 grams per day. Because soy protein can be added to a variety of foods, it is possible for consumers to eat foods containing soy protein at all three meals and for snacks.

An example of a health claim about the relationship between diet and the reduce risk of heart disease is:

Diets low in saturated fat and cholesterol that include 25 grams of soy protein a day may reduce the risk of heart disease. One serving of (name of food) provides ____ grams of soy protein.

• The 16-center trial enrolled 177 women with a mean age 55. 
• Investigators randomized women to receive either two tablets containing 25 mg of genistin and 25 mg of daidzin per tablet or two placebo tablets daily for 90 days. 
•  Both groups exhibited a very strong response with significant declines in both flush frequency and severity at 12 weeks,  soy had a greater impact on flush severity and a marginally greater impact on frequency."
•  The frequency of night sweats declined 60% in women taking the soy extract compared with 30% among women on placebo. "But the number of women reporting this symptom was so small that there is no power to the finding," he said.