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"The Men-O-Pause Cave"
Evolution of a symbolic story for menopause:
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Story discussion (April) 
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From Pat (Crone)  April 7, 97
On 6 Apr 1997 10:00:59 GMT, joan wrote:
 <snip>
...woman sometime at "mid-life" enters this dark warm cave called menopause. She brings her past into this cave and when she leaves the cave she will be facing her future. But what happens in this cave can not be predicted, but it is a safe, nurturing place
I agree that it should and could be safe and nurturing but I think that to say it is for sure is deceptive. A  woman entering this cave and then being one of those who experience difficulty with the one or more of the "pits" mentioned later, might well confuse the pit with the cave itself and lose all confidence in her eventual safe emergence from the other end. Like telling a child that a tonsillectomy won't hurt ( do they still do them?) makes the hurt worse because it is unexpected, and destroys confidence in the teller, a woman might well decide either that she had been lied to once and had probably been lied to in other ways she had found out about yet: or that she had "failed". The cave does not of itself attack, but I'm not too sure it doesn't leak! I suppose we have to figure out how to caulk the leaks! I can't see it as actively nurturing either. 
......baggage she brought in, and discard what she no longer wants to carry into the future and repack the items she does not want ever to part with. Often the woman emerging on the other side of the cave (tunnel?) carries a far lighter burden and has only just the supremely functional tools for effective living left in her suitcase.  She emerges free from obligations and carries only now those task that she herself alone has chosen to carry into the future. 
Many women would see this as nonsense since they still have jobs and family responsibilities and regard them as duties as laid on them. That does not of course preclude them from choosing to accept these as things they want to do. I agree that on a psychological level, successful emergence necessarily entails following their own path -which can be totally "self-sacrificing" *if* that is what give them satisfaction and a feeling of fulfillment. To such a woman, her actions are actually self*ish because that is what gives her pleasure.
      Inside the cave are many tests before she can get her new bearings and leave out the other side. It is dark and she is has not yet learned new ways of seeing things and there are up to "33" possible hurdles to cross and she can stumble into all of them or slow down and find a new way of negotiating around the new circumstances and find a path, on her own terms, around the 33 pitfalls. 


Habitual readers will recognize these of course but for newbies -there is a list of 33 "symptoms" i.e. unexplained happenings in the body, which can often be explained by hormonal changes occurring in peri-menopause. Will whoever has it please post it?

Sometimes potions and pills serve to help this dark passage, some times not.  She is not entirely alone  inside this tunnel cave,
 Tunnel cave bothers me somehow yet but being one who's well and truly completed *this* experience (not stopped journeying though!) I see that the exit has to be different from the entry. Maybe it's a series of caves - in fact I think it was for me at any rate, with a resting up period between them.
there are the echoes of all the other women for over a million years in there with her ready to answer and  urge her to go on, or urge her to stay and keep them company if in fact they got stuck in one of the 33 pits themselves. 
Hm - I thought the reason for this imagery attempt was because there *aren't these echoes? Now if we're talking women on this ng, then that makes more sense - but hardly a million years. Yes, I like that - the people resting between caves help out the ones coming along and the people hurdling the pitfalls prop each other up. (I just love that image!)
But usually it is the voices of the other women on the other side of the tunnel who will keep her going forward
IF they shout loud enough - and indeed if they are around.. Of course we are dealing in best case scenario here aren't we? This is our ideal to be aimed at?
...and her own newly unburdened voice and spirit that is ready to get back out into the light and this is what will tell a woman when it is time to leave the menopause cave.
I cannot imagine this - I don't believe it's possible to foresee emergence any more than it's possible to recognize a last period. Maybe the recognition that there is no (or much less) burden signals that emergence has taken place. In my case, it never did fizz on me... It wasn't an issue any more. Maybe that's it - it isn't dark anymore.
And never in her life will she be able to walk past this Covent not make a silent offering for all she learned while she was inside.
I fear this is wishful thinking.
And no men are allowed for it is the Men-o-Pause Cave.
Naturally - but it sure would help if they'd  guard the entrance and exit against predators, and send in provisions from time to time. My man did.
Story time...........
OK I'll write the novella, who's going to programme the multimedia adventure game?

Pat (Crone)

From Kathryn: (April 7, 97)
Everyone has a different entrance to the cave to go through, mine was very disorienting at first,  and cold. Even with my added sweater my joints still ached. I felt old. I knew where I was because it was time, but the signpost did not say missed periods as I expected. Instead my life was unpredictable and I felt out of control.  Everything was <different> in a subtle way. 

Thank you for suggesting we each have our own exit Pat, I am looking for mine now. I do think there are signs it is coming. For me it is the increasing warmth I am feeling. I am also now comfortable in the cave, I can see around me and no longer stumble. I am more relaxed and no longer fighting to control my body. The one certainty I have is that things continually change. It helps to know where the 33 pits are hiding so I am no longer surprised by anything on the journey.. There are even some breaks in the roof of the cave now and some of the outer world is streaming in, and I am starting to think of the future. 

Joan explains her intent: April 7, 97
        It was meant to help tell the story to newbies. But us oldies are still working on it as there are still missing parts. I agree with Pat, there needs to be balance with what is also lost at this time, and how does one get out of being in a stuck place without going all the way out and still feel safe. What better ways are there to help when one is in the cave? I had it pretty much being the lone ranger going through the cave, because that is more me. But a good myth story need to talk to all women, not just a few. Like I say it is a work in progress and I hope it can speak to all, at all stages and that it becomes a collective effort.  Your input is needed too. 

        Maybe we need to add a section where the Echoes each tell their story and what they want to tell the next ones. 

        Here were the things I wanted to know when I started: 

What was to be expected as "normal"? 
When will it end? 
What do I do to make it okay? 

        Here are the things I have learned now in looking back (approx. 7 years): 

There are hellos and goodbyes. 
It is an inexorable journey. 
The absolutes in our life become gray, like our hair. 
It is survivable. 
The end of one's periods is one of the least significant events. 
The burdens lifted were worth the prices paid. 

If you are new, what do you want to learn from us? I guess the birth of a Crone is when Nature stops throwing new things at us and we can set back now and reflect. And age ;-) But you are still new.... 

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