A natural question to ask when people speak to you about magic, is whether or not they are deluded. After all, does one see magic taking place? Does one see witches materialising out of clouds of smoke, or anything of the sort? It is a natural question for others to ask, and as a community, one that pagans must deal with. Here, the regulars on alt.religion.wicca did little to help their community's already damaged image. Here, Raven mocks the group, and the group comes back with great numbers and venom - but strangely ineffectually. The membership declares victory, seemingly on little more basis than observing that there are many more of them than there is of Blackbane, and that they are capable of writing insults. But, Raven's point remains unanswered in this exchange - what concrete evidence do they have that their "magic" is anything more than a fantasy?
Later, much later, the author of the piece below became aware of this exchange. He found himself in the strange position, given his opposition to the people that Blackbane was aiming this bit of ridicule at, and the fact that he wasn't even a Wiccan, of being one of the few people to actually offer a defense of Wicca in response to her criticism of it, if not the only one. He tells us that he wouldn't have done it for the sake of the group, but felt that Pagandom deserved better press than this crowd was giving it. We'll open with that post so that the non-pagan reader doesn't walk away with the notion that the entire pagan community is a pack of raging delusional maniacs.
Click here if you'd like to forget the philosophy, and go straight to the flamewar ! Oh, and in case you were thinking of making a few good friends of your own, here's an old bit of advice ...
What the word "magic" might mean to a Pagan ...
OK, here's one answer. Some feel, or at least suspect, that the divinities that they worship, like to be worshipped, and have petitions to them made, in a very specific, ritualized way. Some feel that the effectiveness of prayer depends very much on the degree of passion that goes into it, and find that the use of ritual helps them to bring forth the strong emotions sought. I guess that you could call them Hassidic pagans (the Hassidim believe much the same thing). If, for example, you believed in a diety who lived in a subconscious, dreamlike state, who needed to be aroused, you might embrace this approach. (Both Jung(*), and the Pygmies(1) fall into this camp, though their methodology differs considerably).
The requirements of the ritual may seem arbitrary and illogical, but this is simply a matter of our projecting our own likes and dislikes, on a being who may be utterly unlike us. Does it become unreasonable for a diety, to ask us to refrain from doing what He or She finds unpleasant, and to do what, to the diety, is pleasurable, when making a request, merely because the diety's preferences are not our own ? This is not a matter of submissiveness, or a refusal to judge, so much as a recognition that pleasure and pain are defined not only by the stimuli causing them, but by the internal makeup of the being experiencing them. If the makeup changes, so does the response. To expect a diety to welcome the same sort of greeting as a human, would be like a cat deciding that humans were all insane, because they willingly took baths on a regular basis
In either case, an outsider might look at the ritual, and go "Oh, you're attempting magic". Some might take issue with this, and say that this was no more magic, than the petitions offered at a Catholic mass. It is the same concept. One seeks to persuade a Supernatural entity to intervene in the natural world. Even a prayer for strength involves that, because emotional reactions are a quality describing the biochemical reactions in one's brain, and one can't influence the former, without influencing the latter.
Some others. more relaxed, would say "Whatever floats your boat. If you want to call this "magic", go right ahead, as long as you are consistent, and acknowledge that any petition to God, once granted, results in magic. Or, at least, as long as the prayer is ritualised to this degree. Myself, I'd just call it prayer." They tend to practice what might be termed a Minimalist Paganism, rejecting most of what are considered "Occult Practices", such as Astrology, Palm Reading, and that sort of thing, seeking rituals that have worked for others, from the historical record, and investing a passionate faith in them, and a belief in their value for themselves, only to the extent that they seem to work for them, individually and for those they worship with. There is no belief in any sort of personal power, being projected, but merely a belief in those who might act on their behalf. From this point of view, the traditional Wiccan circle casting might be viewed with some amusement. If a diety felt like bothering, what would keep It from blowing right through that circle ?
Still others believe that Supernatural Power resides in the human soul, and that God, or the Gods are the creation of our collective subconscious. Neither adhering to this school of thought, nor knowing anyone who does personally, I hesitate to speak for it.
So, you see, Raven, while it is true that someone who believed that she had the powers of that teenaged witch on the Friday night sitcom, would be quite delusional, it is not the case that those who have passed through here necessarily suffer from that delusion. Cyndi is not about to spread herself with "flying ointment", and expect to get off the ground. I can understand why you were scornful, if that's what you thought the whole community was like, and I'm not denying that some in it are that credulous. But you would be mistaken, if you believed that "Skeptical Pagan", or even "Skeptical Wiccan" was an oymoron. Although, in this group, it'd be an understandable mistake.
We've seen some of what the group could have said on its own behalf. Now, let's take a look at what it actually did say.
(*) Yes, I am well aware of the fact that Jung passed away in 1961. His presence in the literature remains. Only on Usenet would it be necessary to point out why those who have published, are spoken of in the present tense, even when deceased.
(1) A native tribe in Africa, in Zaire, I believe, though I don't have the reference in front of me, and can't be sure of the country that they are located in. They are noted for their short stature (about 3'- 4' at maturity), and arouse some interest in Anthropology classes, because their life cycle is not precisely what is thought of as the "usual" human life cycle, serving as an example of just how much more variation there is in the human gene pool, then people in our culture are often predisposed to believe. Full sexual maturity, and adulthood, comes at around 9, and it is rare for the members of the tribe to live past 40, unfortunately.
That this seems hard to believe to us, really says more about our culture, than it does about the Pygmies, who find their own life cycle to be perfectly natural. Human populations in Africa are often separated from their neighbors on the continent by as much as 200,000 years, the Pygmies themselves having inhabited their forest for 30,000 years - plenty of time for noticable changes in physiology to occur, to say nothing of striking cultural differences.
Perceptual as well. The forest that they live in, is quite dense, and long unobstructed views don't exist in it. As a result, the dwellers in the forest have little experience with visual perspective, and when they emerge, are often noted to view the illusion of objects shrinking, as they move away, with amazement - and skepticism, should the object start out a distance, and be described as large. The message to the student, is to be very careful, about what takes for granted, when studying a people whose background may be very different from one's own. You never know what the next surprise is going to be.
As I recall, the tribe practices a sort of pantheism, worshipping the forest that it lives in. They believe that the spirit of the forest is most often asleep, and in times of danger, must be awakened. In this belief, lies the origin of some of their ritual drum music. They believe that the music must be loud, to awaken the forest.
Sadly, their gentle world view is not a very realistic one, and will probably help lead them to extinction. Their short stature, a major survival advantage in an environment in which the food supply is quite uncertain, puts them at a disadvantage in battle. If invaded by a hostile tribe, their manner of prayer will give away their position. In these days of helicopters, chainsaws, and field rations, those tribes can penetrate the forest far more easily, and rapidly, than they once could. Unless one shares their faith in the spirit they worship, or at least in the continued effective benevolence of the Central government, one is left with the conclusion that either their culture or their population, will suffer grievous harm in the not so distant future, as hungry and growing populations around them look at their forest, as a potential, and much needed, bit of farmland.
A note by us ...
"If ... you believed in a deity that existed in a subconscious, dreamlike state ..." Of course, we do, here at the shrine, as we explain elsewhere, which explains the nature of our ritual, though it never becomes so formalized as to be considered "magic". Given the very human-like character of the Hellenic deities, this is to be expected.