Posted by ~gc~ [polly] on March 29, 1999 at 08:34:59 {y5tAMziUMMOnk9hpiZ8EMWqYzk3C7MU66}:
In Reply to: **Known to be Untrue posted by a.j.w. on March 29, 1999 at 06:08:47:
I'm staring to feel like a Catholic-JW-apologist.
COMF stated: The Watchtower society claims that in the 19th century, bible students were pointing to the year 1914 as the date of Jesus'
return.
The quote he provided from 1998 that he said was deceptive actually referred to " Christ would receive Kingdom Power in 1914." (September 15, 1998 Watchtower, p. 15)
Further, the quotes COMF uses to back up his statement that they are deceptive refer to
(January 14, 1892 Watchtower, p. 1355 The battle of Armageddon
(The Harp of God, p. 235) the Lord's second presence
(Prophecy, pp. 65, 66) the second presence of the Lord Jesus Christ
(Proclaimers, p. 133) Christ's invisible presence
No were, in the proofs that COMF has provided do I see a referral to "Kingdom Power" which is what the quote from the WT of 1998 was referring to.
COMF also states:
From these WBTS publications we see plainly that 19th-century Jehovah's Witnesses were not pointing to 1914 as the date of
Jesus' second presence. They thought it was 1874. 1874 was taught as the date of his advent all the
way up to 1929, the year
Prophecy was published.
Over and over again in the quotes that M14 provided, the WTS repeatedly acknowledges that the WTS believed that the gentile times BEGAN in 1874. I refer you to M14s piece, I don't want to repeat the quotes.
The second quote given by COMF refers to June 15, 1954 Watchtower, p. 370
"[The nations] have not heeded the world-wide advertising of Christ's return and his second presence. Since long before World
War 1
Jehovah's Witnesses pointed to 1914 as the time for this great event to occur."
My understanding, from what I have read is that Christ's Return (I understand this to mean return to Kingly Power) and Christ's second presence were distinguished as two separate events. I would like to see the whole quote to get a better understanding of what exactly "this great event" is referring to. Given the quotes by M14 from the WT of 1955 that candidly admits "their belief that Christ's second presence began invisibly in the fall of 1874 "( their belief that Christ's second presence began invisibly in the fall of 1874 ), I am inclined to believe that the quote refers to "Christ's Return", but I would prefer to see the entire paragraph before giving my opinion.
~gc~ (p.s. just because I don't see these quotes as proving dishonesty, does not mean I believe in the chronology)
In my opinion, this is the
kind of debate that should be going on here. COMF's post should not have been deleted, it should have opened the door to this kind of dialogue.