<< can't bring myself to use them. I'm too chicken to risk a proving. Maybe if giving the dose once or twice was enough I'd do it. Dunno. Most of my reading on using these for a specific dis-ease was for heartworm and it seemed very excessive the number of doses given. Maybe other dis-eases would be different. What have you found as far as dosage schedules for little kitty troubles?>>
I hear ya. That's the part that bothers me too. At it's most basic level, what it means is that let's say u wanna prevent FeLV, u give a dose of theFeLV nosode. The stuff in Marina's newsletter about the nosode causing no'side-effects' is something I don't buy.
After all, if kitty doesn't have FeLV, it stands to reason, that by giving her a remedy s/he doesn't need, s/he will then develop mild symptoms associated w/ that remedy (or nosode in this case). Seems like the argument doesn't quite jell w/ homeopathy basics i.e. if let's say the remedy has to be proven for it to work, then indeed giving progressively higher potencies would make sense. Also the stepped up dosage schedule would do the same.
If OTOH, we're saying (if I interpreted Marina correctly) - give the nosode, no provings will occur and only good can come out of this b/c it will simply stimulate the immune system in such a way that when it does encounter this virus, it will treat it as a benign intruder and not be bothered by it, then how can no negative effects occur. I just don't buy this either good stuff will happen and worst case scenario - nothing bad will. I have the same prob w/ FEs as I've said before.
Can't have it both ways. Wasn't that your point too, Nancy? Looks like I have some more thinking to do. I do have 2 more months before I gotta make up me mind, eh?
Leah, U remember when I posted that article on nosodes to our study group - it has a debate format for nosode opponents and proponents? If so, would any of u repost that cuz I can't find it in my own archives:( I think it was http://www.homeopathyhome.com but I have a feeling there was another article I had found at another site.
FWIW, Christopher Day (I think) has dosages in his book if u want me to post it. I dunno much of anything about kittens so I couldn't tell ya what age a kitten would have to get nosodes. Sorry.
Sandy, owned and operated by the mountain cats
arora@ writes:
<< BTW, I'd love to hear from anyone who has used nosodes - success
stories or failure, doesn't matter. If u don't wanna post to
the list, pls feel free to write me privately. >>
When I got Peaches, all 3 of my cats got a bacterial infection of the digestive tract called clostridium. It's apparently only had a test for a couple years so some vets are not familiar with it. It causes diarrhea with a HORRIBLE chemical order. My kids were on a couple different antibiotics for over 3 months when i just gave up on allo and decided to try a nosode. It is a combo nosode called Bowel Pathogen Nosode, and it has the clostridium organism, plus several other common bacteria and arasites. McLeod mentions that nosodes can be used therapeutically as well as prophylactically, so off we went. I gave it for about 5-7 days, I think twice a day. Then I stopped because McLeod says nosodes are very powerful, and that this should not be used long, and then if needed given again after about 6 weeks.
The difference at the end of the treatment was pretty amazing. The odor was almost completely gone (just a lingering chemical smell) and the diarrea had changed from goopy poops to soft but formed stools. After this treatment, I used GSE tablets for a week and everything was gone (I've always wondered if the GSE would have worked on its own, or if the nosode had already done the trick and just needed time to clear the rest).
This is one reason why I don't treat my raw meat as a general rule. I feel confident I can take care of salmonella or other stuff that may come up. I also feel that they have been given a resistance to the stuff like salmonella and other bacteria that were in the remedy besides the clostridium.
I would try this sort of thing again in a heartbeat. What a relief, after 3 months, in one week to have the problem nearly wiped out! When Kelly gets all better, I will give it to him prophylactically, which I have done a couple of times but never for several days in a row. Then hopefully I'll have his system protected as well.
Lee
Leah writes
<<When I saw this I didn't have a clue what he meant either -
thought maybe you would <G>. However, just on a hunch I looked
this up in Yasgur (I am sooo thankful I have this dictionary) and it says
the following under opsonic: "those substances occurring in the blood serum
which are necessary to prepare bacteria for phagocytosis. It occurs
normally and may be increased by immunization and certain homeopathic
remedies." IOWs this revs up what occurs naturally and don't ask
me what phagocytosis is - couldn't find thatone!>>
Phagocytosis is the process by which bacteria or other infective agents
are destroyed and broken down in the body - the cells which do this job
are known as phagocytes. I think the "phago" bit is greek or latin
derivation and means something to do with swallowing!
--
Naomi J
Leah and others interested;
I checked at Santa Monica Homeopathic Pharmacy for kits and empty cases for remedies. They had several kits and a few sizes of empties.
I picked up 2 small ones by Boiron, they hold six remedies each (pellets in tubes). Dolisos had a bigger one, with several spots for tiny tubes, about 20 for a bit larger tubes. This was $19.95. Standard had one set up to hold specific remedies (don't remember how many). It was like a candy box you open up and the lid tells you which types of candy (or remedy) is in each spot. But the container itself was just open with a cardboard piece in it to separate the little bottles. The bottles were the round tubby little ottles of little tablets. This was $20 empty, $70 w/remedies. But since the lid has each remedy in the kit on the inside lid, you would have to tape over it or something if you wanted to use different remedies.
They had a couple really big kits from Boiron, they were all wrapped so I couldn't look inside. With the remedies they are $150-200. They also had a small case like the ones I got that hold 6 remedies, labeled as a sports medicine kit. Didn't check the remedies in that one.
Obviously these will only work for pellet remedies, not for the liquid
ones. Now that I know about Sandy's idea about dissolving pellets in water
and then dosing, all you'd need is to carry an empty glass dosage bottle
with you, and then whatever remedy you needed you could just add the water
and use it. Of course, if using it on yourself it might be easier
just to put the pellet
under the tongue!
Hope this helps. They said the pharmacy had a website listed on
their bus. card, but all it really has is an email address. If anyone
wants it, or the phone #, let me know. They ship UPS everywhere.
Lee
Hi Lee,
Jnglecats@ wrote:
<< It seems to have come from Peaches when I brought her into
the fold, altho IBD kitties like Cleo are said to develop this
on their own. It started about 2 weeks after I got Peaches.
And no, they haven't been exposed to it again, but they
may have been exposed to any number of the other items in the nosode.
Here in LA kitties routinely seem to get Giardia - vets say it's from the
tapwater.>>
Do people get Giardia frequently there? I know most folks are very susceptible to it and it ruins many a backpacker's trip. That's awful if it's in the tapwater!
<< Everything I've read about nosodes (except McLeod, where I
got the idea) says that nosodes are most effective prophylactically.
So using them therapeutically, as I did, is unusual. So if
nosodes are more likely to work preventatively but they actually
work to cure, which is a step beyond prevention, doesn't that also
suggest they might work as a preventative
also? That's my reasoning. Besides, if the cats do
get one of the nasties that's in the nosode, I can always try
using the nosode therapeutically again. That's what I
meant when I said I wasn't worried about the cats catching bad bacteria
from their meat.>>
I know a lot of vets recomend their use as a prevention tool, but the studies only point to their efficacy as a treatment tool. Dr. Wynn's textbook has several references to nosodes being used successfully as treatment of various dis-eases, but states that as a preventive, the jury is still out and in fact gives an instance of a parvo innoculation trial via nosodes that failed. If you look at the principles of homeopathy, it's a stretch to use it preventatively. It may work, but I can't figure out how and still remain within the other premises of homeopathy that most folks go by. Again, studies aren't the end-all-be-all for me to decide whether to use something, but nosodes have been shown more often to be effective in treating problems than preventing them.
I agree with you that the combo nosode is probably a very good treatment
to use should any of the kits come down with a nasty from the meat. I'd
prefer an individual one, but if you couldn't get a definitive diagnosis
this would be a great way to go. I've always felt the benefits of feeding
raw outweighed the risks since the risks could be dealt with if they arose.
This is one excellent way to do that.
Be well,
Nancy and the furkids
Lee,
Standard has many remedies in tablet form, and they do have a plastic
cases for tablet remedies. This kit has 29 most usual remedies and you
can order either in 6x or 30x. This one, they don't sell just the case,
as I was told before. I havn't see the kit with pellet from Standard
Boiron has several empty storage cases. One, you mentioned that hold 6 remedies is called Mini Kit case and it is $5.99 this one also comes with remedies $19.99, they have three different kit in this size, One is called Children's kit and has Aconitum Napellus, Arnica Mont, Belladonna, Chamonilla, Cocculus Ind, Pulsatilla in 12c, Sports & Trauma kit has Arnica mont, Cinchona off, Cuprum Met, Hypericum perf, Thus tox, Ruta Grav in 12c, and Mini First Aid kit that has Arnica Mont, Arsenicum Album, Belladonna, Ipecacuanha, Mux vomica, Tabacum in 12c. Travel kit case (22) $19.99, or $89.99 with remedies , Le Kit Case (35) $39.99, or $99.99 with remedies 2 drawer cabinet (80) $59.99
Yumi G
Aha, I went surfing and found the URL for that article I had posted to the study group. Yay! It's a very interesting article, btw. Starts out by talking about how Dr. H himself had given Belladonna not just to patients w/ scarlet fever who matched the symptoms, but prophylactically as well <gasp>
Gives both sides of the issue - why people support the use of things such as nosodes, and why other more "classical" types don't.
Wouldn't using nosodes for kitties to prevent FeLV etc. be considered isopathy, or am I just confusing myself more (wouldn't be the first time! <g>)?
Happy reading: http://www.lyghtforce.com/HomeopathyOnline/text/golden.htm
Sandy, owned and operated by the mountain cats
Jill, Marilyn and others:
I have never tried this remedy with my pets, but it was brought to my attention on another list, so that is why I posted about it. It is probably like most homeopathic remedies in that it will come in pellets, tablets, or smaller granules. I get my remedies from Merz Apothecary in Chicago, 1-800-252-0275 (order only number). There are probably places to get them cheaper and faster, but I've got a remedy kit, plus quite a supply built up from treating kitties the past several years so I don't need remedies very often. I think some on here have also ordered from Homeopathy Overnight - they have a web site which I think has been posted in the past.
Another couple of older, well established homeopathic pharmacies are Luyties in St. Louis - 800-HOMEOPATHY and Washington Homeopathics, Inc. 800-336-1695 - their web site is http://www.homeopathyworks.com. I have a list in my files of others too.
Leah
Hi Everyone,
Sandy has given me permission to post this. Marcia is a dear friend of mine and has used nosodes on her d*g for years ........I have used nosodes with my cats without any problems.
Good Luck
Sharon
Sharon, you may tell whomever you speak to about this particular e-mail And nosode use in general from me that we have been administering nosodes to Our dog for years for lyme disease, heartworm; he has always tested negative without the use of "orthodox" vaccines. Most recently, after he acquired a case of kennel cough (after having the standard bordatello routine) We have been using a kennel cough nosode, which our kennel will accept with a note from the homeopathic veterinarian. He has never suffered after ingesting a nosode, and we believe in them ALL THE WAY. If it was legal in our state, we would use a rabies nosode! Marcia and Scott
Leah wrote:
<<As for the rabies nosode being available, actually, I believe
there is a rabies nosode "Hydrophobinum" - i.e. Lyssin . . .
The thought of using this prophylactically, though, quite frankly,
seems a little frightening. Think of the potential for proving
or aggravation ------>>
Perhaps I've been too trusting, now that you mention the risk, but my holistic vet has encouraged and supported my decision to use the lyssin nosode prophylactically in place of the rabies vaccine. My 5-1/2 year old has had only nosodes -- no vaccs *ever* -- and no problems whatsoever; my 8-month-old has one set of vaccs (excluding rabies) before I adopted him but has had only nosodes after that.
My decision to do this was caused by the horrible and long-lasting after-effects of Megan (just about 17 years and now a cancer-kitty) having had what the vet and I believe to have been true vaccinosis. I surely didn't know as much as I've learned from this list when I started using nosodes and my ignorance may turn on me eventually but thus far I have no regrets, given what I've seen as the alternative.
susan
Hi,
That's exactly what I needed - thanks Leah. I'd like to make sure I
have on hand a bunch of the remedies indicated for tapes since Bert
gets them occasionally from his eating of wild things that must have
fleas. If and when I need to use it, I'll let everyone know how it works
out. For anyone who has Kent, the remedies are listed on pp. 634 &
635 if you wnat to pencil in the layman's name for the various wormies
for future reference.
Be well,
Nancy and the furkids
Leah wrote:
<<ascarides "a genus of intestinal round worms" The
second one you have listed (lumbricoides) is another type of the
same genus.
taeniae (or taenia) - these are a genus of tapeworms, which
are ribbonlike , segmental flatworms.>>
<<This isn't directed at anyone in particular, but maybe someone can help me understand why it is that doctors and authors prescribe homeopathics as though they're antibiotics?? I know I've asked this before. But it seems to me that a vet would surely be able to tell in a shorter period of time whether or not something was the right remedy?>>
Kathy,
I think it would depend on the cat, the potency and whether the disease is chronic or acute. I've had vets prescribe a 200C or 1M for my cats and sometimes it does take 3-4 weeks before it can truly effect some more long term changes. It's true that if you hit on the right remedy you should see some subtle changes, but until I understood how homeopathy works, I thought sometimes remedies weren't working either within the time frame I expected.
With the experiences I have had with homeopathic vets, I have learned that some of them switch remedies too quickly, not giving a remedy time to act or they don't take enough time prescribing because the remedy has failed to make even subtle changes. Just some observations based on past experiences
Leah
Hi Kathy,
Looking at the details you wrote below for Kashmir and Thyroidinum,
I would say that it's not the remedy for her. It's easy to think
that we should use the remedy that comes from the source of the troubles,
but that's not always the case. I don't have a good understanding
how sarcodes work anyway, so I'm the last one to ask, though. <G>
What I, and I believe Sandy, was referring to when we mentioned the polarity of a remedy is that the remedy itself contains symptoms that are opposites. In this case, you're looking at Kashmir having opposite symptoms from the remedy. That would tell me that you just need to keep searching for a closer matching remedy.
An example of what I meant of opposites within one remedy can be shown with this remedy, Thyroidinum. It lists both "emaciation", "wasting", "loses flesh" and yet also has "excessive obesity" and "tendency to obesity".
I think what it means where it says "physiological doses" is to give the crude substance, i.e. a glandular or just ground up sheep's thyroid, but I could be reading this wrong. It seems to be making the point that a sensitive individual can't handle the raw substance and should have a gentler nudge to the VF with a potentized remedy.
Be well,
Nancy and the furkids
Kathy B wrote:
<<This opposites thing really struck me, especially when looking
at the Thyroidinum picture. Some examples: Says it can regulate
low blood pressure (Kashmir's is high) Under mind: irritability (she's
definitely that) Head: persistent frontal headache..
--SNIP--
These are just the most striking examples. Kashmir has most of the
symptoms from the whole picture, but either exactly or exactly opposite.
What does that say? It just seems odd to me that the picture is so
... accurate in opposites????? Don't know how to phrase that.>>
Hi Sandy,
I've never seen a scab on a neuter, and I've had boys done at 5 years and also at 8 months recently. However, for scabs in general, I've noticed that most creams do, as you say, soften the scab but don't help to harden it up and make it drop off.
Friends told me that if their neuter has a go at the girls (if they
go on heat), he leaves quite a lot of damage on their necks (they try to
grab him before he can do it, but it's not always possible if one of them
goes on heat when they're out!), and the best possible thing for the scabs
is rescue remedy, put right on. I told this to another friend, who
thought I was a nut, but as a last resort for a vaccination sarcoma put
it on, and blow me, it worked! I also have a problem with Pumpkin,
whose current litter caused a sore on her tummy between two teats, where
they chewed the soft skin. The sore was quite large and very red,
and the stuff from the vet didn't help, nor did Hypericum and Calendula.
Eventually, I put RR right on it 3 times a day, and the thing has dried
up and healed over within a week, after 3 weeks of nothing helping it!
So give it a try: it's not as odd as it sounds: the
alcohol is a good disinfectant and aids in drying up, and my vet tells
me that RR works on the tummy because it apparently desensitizes the nerve
endings, which is obviously good for minor skin irritations and damage
too.
Good luck!
Julia
Noreen,
I'm guessing Nugget is infected with the calici virus because it doesn't
sound like herpes/rhinotracheitis or chlamydia (the common bacterial one).
If your vet does dx herpes or chlamydia let me know and i'll send you that
stuff, too. The following rec's are from Macleod's book, specifically
for the calici virus resp. infections (pp149-50):
Susan
Barbara G wrote:
<<have tried the nose drops with golden seal suggested in Anitra
Fraziers book but they don't seem to have much affect and Thomas
absolutely hates having it done. Can I put the golden seal
in his food? Will it do any good?>>
Hi Barbara and welcome to the list. Goldenseal is quite bitter so I doubt he'd accept it in his food. You could try other supplements and herbs - Vit C, mullein, astragalus, and garlic come to mind.
<<Also, yesterday I found a blob of snot on the windowsill he usually hangs out in so I think we might have an infection going on again. Are antibiotics my only recourse? Would this be a good candidate for colloidal silver? I'm new to homeopathy, but am willing to try anything so appreciate any suggestions.>>
What color was the snot? Some people do have great success w/ colloidal silver. Another option is to give him GSE tablets for the infection, and treat him w/ homeopathy for his chronic condition.
Some remedies you can read up on, and then decide based on his symptoms, are: Hepar Sulph, Pulsatilla, Phosphorous, and Lachesis. There are many others, but I just named these off the top of my head as they are the ones which come up most frequently for this problem.
If you don't have a Materia Medica (MM), you can read about these remedies
at this URL:
http://www.homeoint.org/books/allkeyn/default.htm
http://www.homeoint.org/books/boericmm/default.htm
At that homeoint site, there is also a Repertory you can check out if you want to look up which other remedies might fit Thomas' symptoms.
Good luck, and hope poor Thomas feels better real soon (he and I suffer
from the same problem so I empathize:)
--
Sandy, owned and operated by the mountain cats
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