Caroline Spry has finally hit the big time, but you'd
think she was the shit that hit the fan. She has been nationally condemned
for commissioning Channel 4's first season of 'Dyke TV' which (if you believe
the Daily Mail) is a veritable 'tide of squalor' that has been denounced
as 'a sick joke'. It appears that Spry - unbeknown to the outside world -
has had 'a mission to fill the airways with programmes promoting the lifestyles
of feminist lesbians.'
'I wouldn't call it a "mission" because I've got other things in my life
as well,' she replies. Spry relishes the fact she is supposed to be 'assaulting
traditional values' ('I hope so, yes!') but as for putting out programmes
that 'discuss previously unspeakable sexual practices which are now commonplace'
she laughs, 'Well, I don't know. If only!' Nor it doesn't worry her that
children with TV sets in their rooms will switch on and instantly be converted
because 'I can't say it's something that keeps me awake at night.' Although
she wasn't quite expecting the reaction the series did get, she seems to
maintain an incredibly laid back attitude.
'Well you know, ten years' worth of programmes, some of which have been gay
and lesbian, and not a dickie-bird really. Then suddenly this. It's extraordinary
really, but I do think it was in the context of all the attacks by the Mail
on Michael Grade' (who was decried as 'Britain's Pornographer In Chief')
and I'm sure if all of that hadn't been going on, they wouldn't have bothered
at all. It's nothing really to do with me, it's actually to do with their
attack on Channel 4, and I was a convenient target. They clearly saw the
fact that I was a lesbian as a stick to beat me with. The biggest accusation
in the article is that I am a lesbian, and that somehow I was going to be
outraged that they're calling me that!'
'Dyke TV' is 'one man's sick brainchild' consisting of three hours each Saturday
night for four weeks, based on the idea of a lesbian TV station taking over
Channel 4.
'We launched it at the Channel 4 Summer launch in June, and obviously all
the journalists go along to that. There were a few snide remarks from some
of the other tabloids partly because it's all in the aftermath of the 'Red
Light Zone' and 'Pot Night'. It's hard to know whether they would have even
bothered to look at it if there hadn't been any kind of climate of paranoid
outrage over Channel 4's output.'
That outrage seems to be a bog-standard reaction to almost anything that
goes out after 11pm on Channel 4, but Spry is an old hand at bearing the
brunt of such criticism, having launched 'In The Pink' and 'Out On
Tuesday'.
'"In The Pink" was basically part of a strategy to get regular gay and lesbian
programmes on Channel 4,' Spry explains. 'When I first arrived at the channel,
I took up a lot of the pressure from outside the house to have much more
gay and lesbian programming, and tried to argue for it. There was a lot of
resistance to it, so I had to find strategic ways of trying to nudge them
into doing it, and one of the ways of doing that was to start up with something
we could do much more modestly, out of the budget we had in the department,
to get a collection of programmes on together that looked like a series,
and persuade them that the world wasn't going to end if we put it out.
'The channel was slightly nervous about what kind of criticism the series
might attract. There were all sorts of arguments going on here about why
we shouldn't have gay and lesbian television: "We don't want ghettos" and
"It'll all be rather badly made and dreary and worthy" which is the classic
thing that's thrown at any television like that. I think there seems to be
a knee-jerk reaction to anything that's provided. It's never what everybody
wants and it's very, very difficult doing gay and lesbian TV.'
This was proved once again with the reaction to 'Out" - seen by some as something
of a sinking flagship. Complaints the last series, with its wishy-washy titles
and the cappuccino bar culture that seeped into every programme, are dismissed
by Spry.
'When we started with "Out On Tuesday" there were so many areas that hadn't
been dealt with so there was a much more overt way of dealing with issues,
a much clearer relationship to picking them. As the series evolved, and once
it had done that rush of doing things that hadn't been done because there
was nothing before that, I think the subject matter that it dealt with sort
of expanded outwards and the politics were sort of ingrained into them rather
than being the thing they were about.' I suggest that the argument that 'Out'
seemed to be saying 'We've done the politics, now let's get on with the partying'
is also quite hotly contested.
'I think there wasn't a clear set of politics as such,' Spry insists, 'but
an agenda running through all of the pieces that said you've got to understand
this and not just sit around say, "Oh look at this, isn't it exciting?" There
are still a huge problem in television because is just about a recognition
that we should be doing gay and lesbian programmes with everything else,
but it's only for six weeks or four weeks and then that's it.'
Yet again, Channel 4's commitment to minority programming means that this
year, 'Dyke TV' and 'Over The Rainbow' (four hour-long documentaries imported
from the USA) will be our lot. But would 'Dyke TV' have ever happened if
Spry hadn't pushed for it?
'I suspect not,' she acknowledges 'in the sense that "Dyke TV" is only there
on the back of a history of providing gay and lesbian programmes. There is
there is a slight element of - or a sympathy for - doing something around
dykes this year just because lesbians are fashionable, so there might have
been.'
It's a banner that's waving on two channels, what with BBC2's 'Gaytime TV'.
According to the Daily Mail, Spry has 'spawned a whole line of imitators'
so what's her reaction to this particular offspring?
'Well, it's very, very light but it's not my cup of tea,' Spry says. 'I'm
not terribly interested in lifestyle TV, although there is an audience for
it, and I think it will get better. At the moment, it's very, very thin,
and it's very hard to get right and it's very creaky at the moment. It may
get better but whether it will be marvellous in the studio, I don't know.
I think, personally, I want a bit more substance, but I know there is a whole
audience that doesn't and is quite happy with bland stuff that is just good
fun, but it's got its place. If we had a huge range of gay and lesbian
television, it's fine that there should be a have a light, frothy entertainment
programme.'
Now there's an idea - a huge range of queer television - but Spry sees some
basic problems with this utopian view.
'I certainly don't have the budget to do any kind of serious drama because
it's expensive. If there is money, they'll do largely gay men's drama and
then say they've done it. It happens once in a blue moon, and there is no
on-going commitment to gay and lesbian drama. We didn't have a huge amount
of money to do the whole "Dyke TV" series, so we've done it by putting together
some buy-ins, some repeats and five new commissions, but those five were
all done on vaguely decent budgets. It is a shame that we've got to do so
many repeats and it's a huge problem in this country. In America it's slightly
better, in that there have been some movies, made on a low budget really,
but the work is there. In Britain, the excuses tend to either, "Oh we did
a gay film last year" or "Nobody's sent in a good enough script in."
'Cable TV could make a difference but again, the problem with it is money
because most cable stations run on peanuts. Inevitably you buy in a lot of
stuff, and anything that's made really is done on a shoestring budget, which
is fine, you could do all sorts with that, but you then have to recognise
that there are whole areas that will inevitably be missing.'
That may be a criticism that will be levelled at 'Dyke TV' but Spry admits
to being 'very proud' of the project. It is a kind of swan song, as Spry
is leaving Channel 4 at the end of this year to pursue a career in independent
production. As yet, Spry has no idea if 'Out' is to be re-commissioned.
'I have to say I haven't got a clue what the plan is. I mean, they will replace
me with somebody and, as I understand it, one of their responsibilities is
to continue gay and lesbian programming. I know that they are committed and
have assigned money in the budget for next year to do that, but obviously
I assume they're going to wait and see what that person wants to do.'
We'll just have to wait and see, but if we get anything, it'll be down to
the groundwork Spry has done.
