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Quote:
which is purely Islamic

Hanifan you say: Proof and sources please

Cutting off of the hands and feet on opposite sides and crucifixion is an Islamic form of punishment. Here is a link to a list of Islamic punishments to show they are Islamic and not Egyptian.

http://www.islamic-council.org/lib/crime/all81-89/all81-89.html

http://www.islamic-council.org/lib/crime/all94-104/all94-104.html

http://www.louisville.edu/~b0sidi01/whatanissue.htm


SJ Quote:
and was not practised by the Pharaoh.

Hanifan you say: Proof and sources please.

Starjade says: The Old Testament start with exodus:
Sj Quote:
So you cannot escape the fact that the Pharaoh did not threaten the magicians and the form of execution was said to be of the cutting off of the hands and feet and then crucifixion.

Hanifan you say: Proof and sources please.

Starjade says: Old Testament try exodus: (yawn)
SJ Quote:
This is an Islamic execution

Hanfan you say: Proof and sources please.
Cutting off of the hands and feet on opposite sides and crucifixion is an Islamic form of punishment. Here is a link to a list of Islamic punishments to show they are Islamic and not Egyptian.

http://www.islamic-council.org/lib/crime/all81-89/all81-89.html

http://www.islamic-council.org/lib/crime/all94-104/all94-104.html

http://www.louisville.edu/~b0sidi01/whatanissue.htm

SJ Quote:
that was not practised during the Times of the Pharaoh.

Hanifan you ask: Proof and sources please.

Starjade says: Do your own research and read Exodus of the Old Testament and remind yourself that there are many more errors in the Koran that you are shirking.


SJ Quote:
The Koran is trying to re write history with words that are not historically true.

Hanifan you say: I don't know what 'the koran' is.

Starjade says: Sura 4:82 challenge: If one error is found in the Koran then that is proof that the Koran did not come from God and so the Koran has to be a written Blasphemy for it is proven to not be the word of God.
_________________
The End of Times Doomsday Prophet.
The Lord King and King of Kings Starjade.
The Crown of the Living White Sphere of Kether.

Last edited by Starjade on Fri Dec 31, 2004 12:37 am; edited 1 time in total

A correction needs to be made. One version has her ripped apart (from ahul bayt). The other version (ahul sunnah) has her speared.

_________________
Verily, I have turned my face towards Him Who has created the heavens and the earth 'hanifa', and I am not of the idolators.

Starjade wrote:

Hanifan you say: No proof here

Starjade says: Oh I suppose you missed this statement of Islamic law: 5- Another kind of punishment by Islam was the cutting off of hands and feet opposite sides. The Quran says : "The only punishment of those who wage : against Allah and His Messenger and strive to make mischief in the land is that they should be murdered, or crucified, or their hands and their feet should be cut off on opposite sides, or they should be banished from the land "62

Hanifan you say: In one paragraph appears this sentence: "For waging war against God, the offenders were to have their hands and feet cut off on opposite sides, or crucified, or imprisoned." The OR's point to certain conditions, not mentioned, for each type of punishment. Starjade says: So it mentions an Islamic form of punishment of their hands and feet cut off on opposite sides, or crucified, and you do not see a connection.

Hanifan you say: No proof here, either. As for it being purely an Islamic punishment, please note it did not originate from Muhammad or the Muslims themselves, but was an order of God Himself:

Starjade says: Hmm yes it seems I got the wrong link (sorry) Don’t know what happened there.

Still you have two other links and they do confirm this Islamic form of punishment. I do not know who decided such form of punishments but as Islam began with Muhammad let’s blame him anyway. You say it was an order of God eh? Is that the Living God or the God of Muhammad’s imagination? I know Muhammad is proven to be presumptuous to think he could speak in Gods name.

So tell me, as I am curious when did God say these things you claim and to who was he speaking. If God appeared as you claim then describe the Living God to me and be aware that I will know if you are mistaken for it can be proven by the religious law of Deuteronomy Ch 19 v 15 a Law brought down by Moses that I am someone who can be proven by that law to be some one who can be proven by religious law to have a provable connection to the Living God and therefore I am some one who is in a position to speak and Judge these matters.

The Sura 4:82 already proves that the Koran did not come from God as Muhammad has claimed and so his word is not trustworthy. He is just using his own words and claiming that they are Gods. But it is already proven that Muhammad’s words are not Gods words but Muhammad’s imaginations of what he thinks his God would think. I am sure we both agree that Muhammad is not in a position to know what the true living God is thinking and Muhammad’s imagined God is not God. So tell me how you know it is God who ordered such a thing. Was it just because Muhammad had said so? Well I can tell you that the Living God did not order such a thing. Some Muslim sadist did that thinking all on his or her own.

Hanifan you say: Now, if you were to produce a proof, that is the true proof. An order from God. And I agree, this is a proof that Muslims use this form of 'punishment' against those who fight against God and His messenger(s). Puts you in an uncomfortable position, doesn't it? But does it constitute a proof that it is an exclusively Muslim thing to do?

Starjade says: As I can be proven by the religious law of Deuteronomy Ch 19 v 15 to be a real Prophet with a provable connection to the Living God then it is Islam that is in the uncomfortable position not I. You Muslims are the ones who fight the Living God and his Messengers. The Sura 4:82 already has too many errors in it that no Muslim can explain away proven by the word of the Koran itself that the Koran did not come from God. I note you are still not able to reply to all those many errors that I have so far given and I have only given a few as example upon the request of Dr Maybe.

So the Koran is not from God and not the word of God and that also proves that Muhammad has not been telling the truth about the contents of the Koran and he is presumptuous to think he could speak in Gods name so he is not a Prophet from God nor is he in any position to speak. Recorded history of Islamic Law is the proof this cutting off of the hands and feet is Islamic and you are hardly in any Position to claim that such things were ordered by God. You cannot even prove Muhammad is a Prophet from God despite your claims. But I can easily prove that he is not a Prophet from God cant I as the Sura 4:82 and many other things I have not even mentioned yet show.

You claim a lot of things are ordered from God yet you do not explain why you make such a claim. Where is your evidence? What proof do you have display that proof so I can show you that you are mistaken in that belief? And show me where in the Old Testament it states a man should be punished by the cutting off of the hands and feet on opposite sides and then crucified. I do not know of that specific form of punishment and only have ever heard of it through the Koran. As far as I know there is no such punishment in the Old Testament where the hands and feet are cut off on opposite sides and then the souls is crucified.

Hanifan you say: The Bible also records that God and His prophets used and promote this form of punishment:

Quote:
1Sa 5:4 And when they arose early on the morrow morning, behold, Dagon [was] fallen upon his face to the ground before the ark of the LORD; and the head of Dagon and both the palms of his hands [were] cut off upon the threshold; only [the stump of] Dagon was left to him. 2Sa 4:12 And David commanded his young men, and they slew them, and cut off their hands and their feet, and hanged [them] up over the pool in Hebron. But they took the head of Ishbosheth, and buried [it] in the sepulchre of Abner in Hebron. Mat 18:8 Wherefore if thy hand or thy foot offend thee, cut them off, and cast [them] from thee: it is better for thee to enter into life halt or maimed, rather than having two hands or two feet to be cast into everlasting fire.

Starjade says: In Samuel Ch 5 v 4: It does mention the fate of the Dagon messing about with the Arc of God. Both his hands became stumps and so he did suffer that fate. But that fate was not of the cutting off of his hands and feet on opposite sides and then being crucified is it. The Pharaohs Magicians were never threatened with such a grisly fate at all. It is only the Koran making that claim. As for this fate of Dagon, I think the writer wanted to promote a fear of Gods Arc so as to discourage others.

Starjade says: Even the cutting off of both hands and both feet is not the same grisly fate as cutting off of the hands and feet on opposite sides and then crucifixion. But I agree that you have made a valid point. This cutting off of the hands and feet is not just Islamic Practice and clearly will have stemmed from these past executions. The Old Testament does say hang over a pool and does not say crucify and does not say cutting off of the hands and feet on opposite sides though. So it is still similar but not the same as the Islamic form of such punishment, which states clearly what must be done. Punishments for Blasphemy are a death by stoning not by mutilations. But I do see the point that you have been making.

Still this does not account for the fact that the Magicians of the Pharaoh were not threatened with any death or punishment by the pharaoh as the Koran has claimed. So the Koran is still in error isn’t it.?

Starjade says: Mathew is a Christian and you just cannot trust the word of Christians. But you are right it does say that but it does say (if they offend thee) not lets punish this soul because of this or that by cutting off his hands and feet and crucifying him does it. If they eye offend thee pluck it out. It is conceptual and not a statement saying cut out the eye but if it irritates then there is something you could do even though it is extreme. Why that is more philosophy than an agreement this must be the punishment for a crime. I am impressed that you found such quotes. You certainly have given this some thought. I hope you can explain away those angels making lightening and those meteors being fired at Jinn’s with such convictions. Muslims always shirk those errors in the Koran.

Hanifan you say:
In another example, a hadith tells us of a lady, the first Muslim martyr, Safia (Sojatu Yasser & Umm Ammar) who was literally torn limb from limb by the pagans of Makkah in front of her children because she had embraced Islam, yet she did not recant (even unto death), nor accuse God of forsaking her, meeting death with patience.

Starjade says: What a horrible fate eh ? But the Pharaohs magicians did not suffer such threat or such a fate. The Koran is in error with that claim. I know a Christian Preacher called Iris who would suffer so for her beliefs even if she was thrown to the lions. Yet Muslims do condemn her and say she is in error just as Christians can condemn the claims of Islam. Yet be sure that you are both wrong even if you all suffer badly and take on grisly deaths. Martyrdom does tend to make those who suffer feel as if they have the wings of righteousness upon them. But that does not make their beliefs stand upon solid rock. They simply were convinced of their own beliefs. Not of any actual facts.

If I was thrown to Lions I would have entered the arena with curiosity of being close to such an animal and if it attacks me then I would Yack it one in the eye. That will make it reconsider. But I would not waste my life force dying for any false religion or just on the premises of someone else’s beliefs. I am a seeing is believing kind of a person. Show me proof and then I might believe or at least show you where your beliefs are going wrong and why they have not convinced me.

starjade wrote:
And was not practised by the Pharaoh. Hanifan you say: Proof and sources please. Starjade says: The Old Testament start with Exodus: Sj Quote: So you cannot escape the fact that the Pharaoh did not threaten the magicians and the form of execution was said to be of the cutting off of the hands and feet and then crucifixion. Hanifan you say: Proof and sources please. Starjade says: Old Testament try exodus: (yawn)

Hanifan you say: Where in Exodus does it say 'The Pharaoh did not threaten to kill the Magicians if they failed in their task against Moses and Aaron.'?

Starjade says: Have you been eating fortune cookies made by Confucius as that is a clever reply. But when you read the whole story of the Exodus it does not say that the Pharaoh threatened the Magicians and so the recorded history of that event states that to be a fact.

The Koran however re wrote those words and changed those Testimonies and they then claimed the Magicians were threatened with having their hands and feet cut off on either side and then being Crucified. That did not happen. So the Koran is proven to be in error because of that reason.

Hanifan you say: Where does it say 'The Pharaoh did not kill any of his magicians'?

Starjade says: There again I say read the story of the Exodus as was recorded by the Jews who lived in those Times. They narrated the tale from the appearance of Moses and Aaron right up to the death of the Pharaoh when the Pharaoh drown in the Red sea when the Lord they God closed the walls of the red sea upon them. At no point anyplace does it state that the Magicians were threatened in any way and certainly it does not say they were threatened with the cutting off of the hands and feet on either side and then crucified. It only makes such a claim in the Koran. That is why this Sura 7:124 is an error made in the Koran.

Hanifan you say: Exodus is spelt with a capital 'E' (YAWN!)

Starjade says: I copy cut and paste everything into word, as it is easier to see and reply. But those Goddamned Americans do not know how to spell English. And they have flaws in their software. I find word 2000 is correcting words and also not placing capital letters where they should be and even changing those letters when I write them so blame the computer not I.

Hanifan you say: Still waiting for your proof and sources.

Starjade says; Well you did not have to wait long then didn’t you. ?
starjade wrote:
That was not practised during the Times of the Pharaoh. Hanifan you ask: Proof and sources please. Starjade says: Do your own research and read Exodus of the Old Testament and remind yourself that there are many more errors in the Koran that you are shirking.

Hanifan you say: 1. The onus is on you to provide the proof. The research I make I keep in reserve.

Starjade says: Well you are not specific on what you want proved. If you wanted the proof that the Koran is not from God then look to the Sura 4:82 and the many signs in the heavens and Muhammad’s own acts and deeds and claims that he has made. Then look to history and explain why he never attempted to gather up those Jews from the four corners of the Globe. The Arabs are Jews also by the way so I am speaking as a collective here. Those Jews were not scattered to the four corners of the Globe when Muhammad lived so he could not fulfil that Prophecy anyway. Plus Muhammad believed in Jesus didn’t he and 11 chapters of the Koran glorify Jesus and yet the Prophet that Jesus has claimed himself to be is that very Prophet that God promised Moses he would raise up and that just happens to be the very same Prophet that you are claiming Muhammad to be. So many errors prove my words true. But you know all these things told there is a better way. It is called religious law.

Deuteronomy Ch 19 v 15. This religious law states in Deuteronomy Chapter 19 Verse 15: One witness shall not rise up against a man for any iniquity or for any sin, in any sin that he sinneth: At the mouth of two witnesses, or at the mouth of three witnesses, shall the matter be established. This is a witness law that is designed to determine matters of the truth especially about statements that could be deemed as being blasphemous or sinful. It is not a matter for your own personal opinion; even if nobody wanted to believe the evidence that is presented. If that law is fulfilled, then legally it is binding and should stand good according to religious law.

Starjade says: Now bring the Testimonies of Muhammad’s witnesses as to when he met this Angel Gabriel which started off these claims that you are believing. Isn’t it a fact that Muhammad has no witnesses and so his word cannot be established as being true in accordance with the Living Gods law of Deuteronomy Ch 19 v 15 which the Living God gave to Moses? Well then the word of Muhammad can never be established as being true. That religious law binds all the descendants of Abraham and Muhammad was a descendant of Ishmael and so he is bound by those laws just as every descendants of Abraham is. Muhammad is proven to be a fraud by religious law long before these conversations ever took place. So where are your witnesses.

I personally can name 4 witnesses to myself being a real Prophet who does have a provable connection to the Living God and so my word is the absolute authority here for certain because God said in Deuteronomy Ch 18 Verse 18:

A Prophet I shall raise up in the MIDST of your Brothers, like you.
And I shall indeed put my words in his mouth
and he will certainly speak to them all that I command him.
Deuteronomy Ch 18 Verse 19:
And it must occur that the man who will not listen to my words
that he will speak in my name.
I shall myself require an account from him.

Starjade continues: So if I can produce 4 witnesses to prove my claims to be true. Then it should be easy for you to produce the same for Muhammad or for the Christians to do the same for Jesus. That is the way of proof by religious law.

But you and I know that Muhammad has no witnesses to his claims nor has Jesus as a matter of fact. You are all just blowing out wind. You cannot satisfy a religious law that is designed to determine matters of the truth especially with regards to Crimes of Iniquity and Sin. And anyone who claims themselves to being that Prophet that God promised Moses he would raise up. Had better be that prophet otherwise they are guilty of Blasphemy which is a crime of Iniquity and Sin.

(Sigh) I just love the Living Gods laws that prove my word is so very true. That law is the ultimate religious guide for determining matters of the truth. Or a lie as it is in the case of Jesus and Muhammad who got caught out in a big lie. The Sura 4:82 for the Muslims does prove the rest. So the Koran is Guilty and yet still a source of proof of that guilt of Blasphemy. That is the thing about past history for it is already written. And Inescapable for Muslims and Christians alike. (scuse me whiles I chuckle with good reasons about all of this)

Hanifan you say: 2. The Qur'an supercedes all previous scripture, so Exodus isn't a proof, anyway, against the Qur'an.

Starjade says: No only Muslims make such a claim but it is not true. Perhaps you forget that God made Covenants with Abraham not with Muhammad or any Muslims. The Arabs are descendants of Ishmael who is the first born of Abraham and he and his descendants are all bound by the Old Testament whether they like it or not. And the Old Testament was around thousands of years before Muhammad was even born. The Arabs wrote the Koran and they were building a Golden calf when they did so. But they cannot cover up their Blasphemy and pretend the Koran supercedes the Old Testament. Because The Living God and Gods Prophet sure as Hell do not think so.

And in case you forgot the Old Testament Prophecy that God promised Moses he would raise up has stood on solid ground and been proven to be fulfilled and proven to be true. That Prophet ordered that Exodus of Jews way back in 1995 when all the many signs in the heavens appeared in conjunction with each other.

And that prophet has already proven the Koran is false using the Sura 4;82 and the many errors of the Koran that none of you Muslims can dispute. Sura 4:82 clearly states that if just one error is found in the Koran then that is proof that the Koran did not come from God as Muhammad has claimed.

I have already mentioned some of those errors and seen with my own eyes that you Muslims cannot respond and that is the proof to you that the Koran does not supercede the Old Testament but was Fabricated with lies. Lies that I have even shown to your faces. So do stop deluding yourself for the Koran is not the word of God. But the Old Testament sure as Hell has been proven to be. And I am a seeing is believing kind of a Guy and even I have seen these things.

Hanifan you say:
3. Each 'contradiction' in it's own time. When you concede you are mistaken about calling these particular events 'contradictions' or 'errors', we'll deal with the next spurious claim.

Starjade says: hahaha yeah do tell me about these angels making thunder and Missiles being thrown at Jinns. But try and explain first if you can why Muhammad believed in Jesus and 11 chapters of the Koran glorify Jesus as being the very prophet that Jesus is claiming himself to be. Because the prophet that Jesus is claiming himself to be is that very Prophet that God promised Moses he would raise up. And that is the very same Prophet that Muhammad has also claimed himself to be

hahahahaha ( cough splutter scuse me I nearly laughed so much my nose goo nearly came blasting out across my computer screen. ) Sura 4:82 shows that the Koran is not a book that came from God and it does not supercede the Old Testament. You just wish that it did but it is proven to not be the word of God at all. Man can be so deceptive eh?

I have been waiting a long time for any Muslim to dispute those errors in the Koran but although many have tried they have not succeeded in disputing them and neither shall you in my view.

starjade wrote:
The Koran is trying to re write history with words that are not historically true. Hanifan you say: I don't know what 'the koran' is. Starjade says: Sura 4:82 challenge: If one error is found in the Koran then that is proof that the Koran did not come from God and so the Koran has to be a written Blasphemy for it is proven to not be the word of God.

Hanifan you say: Still don't know what 'koran' is. Nor 'sura'.

Starjade says: The Koran is the Arabs Golden Calf. And Starjade has just eaten it for breakfast.

Hanifan you say: Besides, what is your HISTORICAL source and how dependable is it? More dependable than The Word of God? Now, if you believe that, THAT is a blasphemy for which you will have to answer on the Day of Judgment.

Starjade says: According to the Religious law of Deuteronomy Ch 19 v 15 I am not guilty of Blasphemy. My words are proven to be true and the Living God does say to me you should hearken. My word is dependable for I am the one who truly satisfy the Prophecy that the Living God gave to Moses and I can prove that by religious law. The arrival of that Prophet that God promised Moses he would raise up sure as Hell is proof that the Old Testament stood on solid ground and has been proven to be true. On that account. I am probably the only person on this Planet in a position to speak the word of the Living God and my words are irrefutable.

The evidence that proves that Starjade is a Prophet with a provable connection to the Living God. And there are four witnesses who can verify these claims.

Starjade concludes: Sura 4:82. Another error found in the Koran, is this claim by Muhammad that he was the last Prophet to come from God. I can outright Proof for a religious fact that Muhammad is not a Prophet from God and that the Koran did not come from God. And I can be proven by religious law of Deuteronomy Ch 19 v 15 to be a Prophet with a connection to the Living God. In fact I can prove that I am that very specific prophet that God promised Moses he would raise up and I am in a position to back my mouth up on that all the way as the religious law of Deuteronomy Ch 19 v 15 proves for a fact.

_________________
The End of Times Doomsday Prophet.
The Lord King and King of Kings Starjade.
The Crown of the Living White Sphere of Kether.

Last edited by Starjade on Tue Dec 21, 2004 2:10 am; edited 6 times in total

So far you have not proved any of your allegations.

I see you have finally responded to the legitimate proofs I have presented.

When I find time I might have further fruitful conversation with you since you sometimes step outside those blind alleys you like to follow.
_________________
Verily, I have turned my face towards Him Who has created the heavens and the earth 'hanifa', and I am not of the idolators.

Last edited by hanifan on Tue Dec 21, 2004 8:12 am; edited 1 time in total

Dont you mean that you are finding excuses to shirk away from these errors found in the Koran ?

I have been precise and to the point. The errors i have mentioned not you or any other Muslim has been able to explain away. It is simple to shirk isnt it. |But Blasphemy does carry the death penalty. A Death by stoning and I have it in my Power to stone every Muslim on earth to their deaths by Just remaining Silent.

Do you prefer to worship a God of Muhammads imagination and follow the invented statemenhst of Muhammad knowing he is proven to be a false Prophet who is presumptuous to think he could speak in Gods name.

I have met Many Muslims who would and did give up the Koran and islam so they would not offend the one true living God. Or is religion just a Game for you to play. The Living God has said we must not follow false Prophets and so you should consider those words of the Living God and stop behaving so Blasphemously.

The Sura 4:82 Challenge of the Koran is to find Just one error in the Koran to prove that the Koran did not come from God. I have named many errors here and it is the responsability of all Muslims to defend the Koran and attempt to dispute those errors to prove they are not errors and if they cannot do that then they have proof in front of their eyes that the Koran did not come from God and that Muhammad is presumtuous to think he could speak in Gods name.
_________________
The End of Times Doomsday Prophet.
The Lord King and King of Kings Starjade.
The Crown of the Living White Sphere of Kether.

Yes, I had. But since I actually quoted the verse itself for your edification, it's a moot point.

Keep digging your own doom, starjade. It matters not a wit to me. It did matter to the Prophet of God, however, may Allah elevate him and grant him peace. A Fact God Himself acknowledged:

He also speaks of people like yourself:

and your rejection of Muhammad, solla allahu alayhi wassalam, and the message he brought:

When did God say these things you claim and to who was he speaking.

God gave His Book over a period of 23 years to the seal of the prophets, the messenger of God, between the dates of -10 and 13 Hijra. The first words he recited from it was on one of three nights (23 or 25 or 27 Ramadan -10 Hijra) and the last time he recited the whole to the Angel Gibreel (twice) was through these dates in the year 12 Hijra.

Your bombast does not impress. God is the knower of the seen and unseen - and you are ignorant of all He Knows, except that which He wishes you to know. And what He bestows on you depends on your heart. Do you WANT to know God?

Your saying so is simply your error. You haven't even been able to prove the first pinprick of you pitiful armory, let alone this wildly ambitious overstatement of yours.

Yawn!

Dream on! Bombast is nothing. What are you proving, where is the proof, what is this connection you boast of, who are you, Mr. Insignificant?

??????

Please tell me where there is a discrepancy in this verse! I can't seem to find any.

Well, until you concede your off on a non-starter, the other spurious claims of yours concerning 'discrepancies' are going to be left dangling in the cold.

No. You have an impossible task, I'm glad to say.

From the Furqan. (Look up the word if you don't know. There are two (which are in reality, one).)

So you admit there is no such statement. Simply a lack of corroborating evidence. You cannot prove there is a mistake in the Qur'an over this, just as I cannot prove that the Pharoah ordered the crucifixion of the magicians through your sources.

By the way. It was not for lack of trying. I am pretty well read up on those we suspect were those magicians, now. But one story cannot be proven over another - so the evidence is neutral.

The upshot is that you CANNOT PROVE WHAT THE QUR'AN SAYS TO BE WRONG, in this case.

Yes I was. I wanted you to prove the allegation that what the Qur'an said about the Bakers dream and the crucifixion of the baker, and the threat to and crucifixion of the magicians were both false. You manifestly failed to prove both these cases, al hamdulillah. Now you reluctantly concede a kind of semi defeat. Once you formally admit you have no substantial proof, we can go on to the next of your so called 'errors' in the Qur'an.

The rest of your post (concerning Deut 18:15 and 18:18 ) I disagree with - and you'll never be able to prove your contention there, either. Believe me, I have had a lot of experience debating that particular point. But I want to concentrate on these so called 'discrepancies' of yours. So let us limit the discussion to those, for the present. However, before I go on to the next, I want a concession from you for every one that I knock down as being a false accusation by you before I go on to the next. That condition applies to the crucifixion stories we have been discussing, too.

You must be joking! Have you ever heard of the science of recording ahadith. There are so many witnesses to Muhammad's prophethood that the condition you state has been fulfilled mor than a thousand times over.

Revelation in the Qur'an

Fatrah

Again, I think I'll pass on responding to a man who says his word is the only valid one because he is 'the prophet of the living God'.

Many claims have gone before him, and no doubt others will come after. Jesus foretold the rise of many false prophets and Muhammad foretold the rise of the Dajjals, until finally 'the King of Liars' (The Anti-Christ of Christian belief is doubtless the same being) will rise up and lead the Misguided to Destruction against Jeus and the Muslim nation he revives.

1) Only God knows the unseen. What you can't see and I can't see you can neither prove to be true or false. And neither can I.
2) He did? Where was that. I must have missed it, somehow. :scratch:
3) The exact quote from the Torah is not given in the Qur'an, though a reference to the prophecy in the Angelia is made.

But you see, your view doesn't cut it. I suspect every Muslim who has disputed with you has proved your self opinionated views to be so much hot air - but you are simply unable to perceive your ignimonious self delusion.

That one makes me laugh and splutter. You are depending on the law of reliable witnesses for the judgement of a case of Qasas to prove yourself a prophet? Boy, do I pity you. Your ability as a Dajjal is pitiful. I'm afraid no one will be fooled. You'll have to just bow out and let a better liar take your place. The Masih Dajjal, of course, is completely above of your league. That is one who will have half the world eating out of his palms.

Roll up. Roll up! See for yourself : A minor Dajjal !!

Of course you can, oh legal witness to Qasas.
_________________
Verily, I have turned my face towards Him Who has created the heavens and the earth 'hanifa', and I am not of the idolators.

Hello Hanfan: No I am still here Hanfan. The buildings I was writing from closed for the Blasphemous Xmas festival. Also this forum went offline for several days. So I could not post my reply to you. I did save it to disc and will post it sometimes tomorrow. If the forum is still up and running.

Have you seen what has happened to the south seas then hanifan. Note where that earthquake epicentre was. Note also that it can be proven way back in 1995/96 I ordered a mass Exodus of all Jews off those south sea islands including India and Bankok. But you know how blasphemous those Jews are so they broke their Covenant with God and I just bet some of those Jews died in that deluge. See that is the Power of Prophecy. 1995 i was warning of grave events of those south seas. Look on the maps on the End of Times web site. You will see no Island other than Australia exists in that future and that shaded part on India is where the land was gone. I shaded roughly in how much land was beneath water in India. So the Jews Prophet warned them

So how come Jesus and Muhammad did not warn their followers then. Clearly that was because they are false Prophets whereas the future only proves that I am true. I needed the Jews to Exodus in order to cause the other religions to take note of that phenomena. Now what a waste of Prophecy eh. An opertunity to save millions of millions just washed away. Now that does make my anger blaze at the Jews. they should have known better.

Anyways I was not expecting to go online today and the building I am in shuts at 5 pm today. Its 4;45 so i have to go. Damn Christians festivals are so annoying. There is more religious discussion going on in our conversations than in any Blasphemous Christians church. tsk tsk tsk.... Jan 3rd is when everything opens up again properly. But if contact is lost than you can find my email address on the End of Times web site. I am easy to contact. If something was on your mind.

PS I wrote you a good reply. I must go home now and get that disc. And I am the one who has challenged islam. I wont back off from that challenge for any reason. What will be will be and it will be cos God fated things that way. You already know I have won my challenge to islam. You Muslims really are powerless against my God given revelations.

Moses went into the Red sea and you Muslims went into denial. Happy holdays. I am not a Christian Muslim or Jew so those holdays are really just delusional Blasphemy. But still a good time for family get togethers eh. Lets hope it all end sooon.

_________________
The End of Times Doomsday Prophet.
The Lord King and King of Kings Starjade.
The Crown of the Living White Sphere of Kether.

Hanifan you say: Yes, I had. But since I actually quoted the verse itself for your edification, it's a moot point.

Starjade says: Ah well then. At least we can agree that the cutting off of the hands and feet and then crucifying the body is an Islamic form of execution. This form of punishment is not mentioned in the Old or New Testaments that I am aware of. Even the Dagon incident was of Dagon losing his head and hands as if he stuck it into the Arc for a good nosy and something bit his head and hands off. (Eeek) I wonder if that did occur or was just a writers ploy to enrapture the imaginations. Only later did they cut off both feet and hang him so it is not the same form of Punishment. As in the cutting off of the hands and feet on opposite sides and then crucifying the body.

Hanifan you say: Keep digging your own doom, starjade. It matters not a wit to me. It did matter to the Prophet of God, however, may Allah elevate him and grant him peace. A Fact God Himself acknowledged:

Starjade says: Do you not mean that the writers of the Koran claim that God himself acknowledged these things which is a whole different statement. In fact it was not God making such a statement. After all we should be precise shouldn’t we. And look here the Sura 4:82 says if just one error is found in the Koran then the Koran did not come from God. If the Koran did not come from God as Muhammad has claimed then that does mean that the word of Muhammad cannot be trusted as he then is caught out in a lie. The Koran says that and I am just pointing that fact out.

And where am I digging my own Doom eh. I can back my mouth up on all the statements that I have made and I have more knowledge on these matters than you do, so I am in a better position to Judge. Have you thought an answer for the Missiles being fired at Jinns or the Angels making the sound of thunder. HUH? After all those are the statements of Muhammad himself. Do you actually believe that to be true.

Hanifan you say: He also speaks of people like yourself:

Starjade says: The Living God did speak of me. When he promised Moses he would raise up a Prophet. Deut 18: The Living God and all of his angels are already my Guide but I already knew where I was going. So they just sit back and let me do my stuff for the Living God has total confidence in me. And I know the Living God is most wise and made the perfect choice. But this God you speak of is the Allah mentioned in the Koran. That is the God of Muhammads imagination isn’t it. After all Muhammad also claimed the Koran are the words of God as well. But the Sura 4:82 of the Koran says that if one error is found in the Koran then the Koran did not come from God as Muhammad has claimed so these claims of God talk are just as suspect.

Starjade says: Actually I began my conversations quoting Islamic law that protects my right to speak and the challenge of the Sura 4:82 that also protects my right to speak. I also satisfy the religious law of Deuteronomy Ch 19 v 15 which proves that I am not guilty of any Iniquity or Sin. So far no Imam on this Planet has ever dared to accuse me of Blasphemy because in religious law I will eat them all for breakfast. I have challenged Imams in the past to make such accusations but with the Law of Deuteronomy Ch 19 v 15 proving my words are true then those Imams know they would lose in such accusations against me.

Again I say this is not God speaking as you claim. The Sura shows it is again an Islamic claim that the God of Muhammads imagination is the one you are calling God. And so really this will be Muhammad making such claims and he is presumptuous to think he could speak in Gods name. Where as Religious law says that I can speak in Gods name. To me the Living God has said you should hearken.

Hanifan you say: and your rejection of Muhammad, solla allahu alayhi wassalam, and the message he brought:

Starjade says: I am not an Idolater I see such a thing as Blasphemy. I do not follow false Prophets, I am Proven by religious law to be a Prophet myself. You cannot dispute that and your Imams dare not dispute that especially publicly. So what was this Message you think Muhammad has brought then. You do realise that the Prophet that God promised Moses he would raise up was coming here with details of that apocalypse and that he was going to gather up all the Jews from the four corners of the globe and lead them all to a new promised Land. As Muhammad has foolishly claimed himself to be that prophet whiles also believing Jesus is that Prophet then do tell us all what that Message was. Didn’t he say it would grow very dark?

Isaiah Prophecy: Ch 11 v 11: And it shall come to pass in that day that the Lord shall set his hand again the second time to recover the remnants of his people which shall be left, from Assyria, and from Egypt, and from Pathros, and from Cush, and from Elam, and from Shinar, and from Hamath, and from the islands, of the Sea.

Isaiah Ch 11 v 12: And he shall set upon an ensign for the nations and shall assemble the outcasts of Israel and gather together the dispersed of Judah from the four corners of the Globe.

Starjade says: All that glitters is not Gold. Whatever dazzles attracts.

Hanifan you say: When did God say these things you claim and to who was he speaking.

Starjade says: Well now you just ranted a length about what Muhammds imagined God is claimed to have said. Why did you not display what things it is that I have said or claimed so I know precisely what you are speaking about. I have said a lot recently.

As for witnesses read the Old Testament law of Deuteronomy. Ch 19 v 15. the Law already says what to do if there is even a suggestion of a Crime of Iniquity and Sin and at that Time I believe that he was speaking to Moses.

The Living God of Abraham has said that if a soul comes along claiming that they are gods Prophet then we must demand proof of that. To make such a claim and be false is an act of Blasphemy, which is a crime of Iniquity and Sin. That carried the Death penalty. The Old Testament law of Deuteronomy Ch 19 v 15 would then be invoked and the person in question should be arrested and accused of Blasphemy by the congregations. Then the Judges and the Priests who live in those Times will judge upon the matter diligently. Two or three witnesses can be called to Testify for or against the one accused. By that outcome would it be known if that soul making such a proclamation is the Living Gods Prophet or not.

Hanifan you say: God gave His Book over a period of 23 years to the seal of the prophets, the messenger of God, between the dates of -10 and 13 Hijra. The first words he recited from it was on one of three nights (23 or 25 or 27 Ramadan -10 Hijra) and the last time he recited the whole to the Angel Gibreel (twice) was through these dates in the year 12 Hijra.

Starjade says: So are you now saying Muhammad is your God. The Sura 4:82 says if one error is found in the Koran then the Koran did not come from God. I have already given a list of errors by the request of Dr Maybe. No Muslim yet has been able to dispute the fact that these errors exist in the Koran because they all know those errors do exist in the Koran. The Koran says if one error is found in the Koran then the Koran did not come from God as you Muslims claim. So God did not send the Koran as you are claiming and Muhammad is not a Prophet from God just because you have been led to believe that as a Child.

Bring proof in the form of real witnesses. And be the wise and reply an account for all the many errors that exist in the Koran proving that the Koran did not come from God as Muhammad has claimed. Hanifan be aware that I was taught the religion of Islam by Islamic experts and they taught me all about the claims and the history of Muhammad and Islam and they also taught me Islamic law. The facts are that Muhammad has no witnesses to his claim. And be aware that the Angel Gabriel has never existed and originated as a Dream that Daniel had whiles he was in a deep sleep and Daniel described a Man not an angel. Also this same Angel Gabriel is claimed to have appeared to authenticate Jesus and Jesus claimed that he was that prophet that God promised Moses he would raise up. So this Angel Gabriel is unsure as to who that Prophet will be. Especially as Muhammad also claims the same angel Gabriel appeared to him and told him that he was that Prophet that God promised Moses he would raise up. That is odd.

Here is a link to a exacting statement all about the origin of the Arch Angel Gabriel. http://www.geocities.com/end_of_times/gabriel.html
After all if you are going to quote Gabriel then be educated as to where Gabriel sprang from.

Starjade says: You claimed that God appeared and yet do not give me a Physical description. Only the speculations of what Man thinks God is like or rather what he believes God knows. This is not a Physical description of the Living God. And it is an assumption of mans to think he would know what God may know or be thinking.

[quote] Muhammads imagined God wrote:59:22-24 He is Allah besides Whom there is no god; the Knower of the unseen and the seen; He is the Beneficent, the Merciful He is Allah, besides Whom there is no god; the King, the Holy, the Giver of peace, the Granter of security, Guardian over all, the Mighty, the Supreme, the Possessor of every greatness Glory be to Allah from what they ascribe as partner (unto Him). He is Allah the Creator, the Inventor (of all things), the Fashioner (bestowing forms); His are the most beautiful names; whatever is in the heavens and the earth declares His glory; and He is the Mighty, the Wise.

[quote] Starjade says: The Sura 4:82 says if just one error is found in the Koran then the Koran did not come from God. Did you miss that list of errors found in the Koran. Then it is proven that the Koran did not come from God and this Allah is a God of Muhammads imagination and that is why you cannot describe God. All you have done is say God is this and is that. So you voice your opinions or Muhammads opinions when In fact the Sura 4:82 proves the Koran did not come from God and so the God Allah that you speak of is a God of Muhammads own imagination. After all he never met the real God and is just saying that God said this or that or is this or is that when in fact the Koran itself points out that the errors found within its text prove the Koran did not come from God and that Muhammad was presumptuous to think he could speak in Gods name.

[quote]112: Say: 'He, Allah, is One Allah, the Eternal, Absolute He begets not, nor is He begottenAnd there is none comparable to Him'

Hanifan you say: Your saying so is simply your error. You haven't even been able to prove the first pinprick of you pitiful armory, let alone this wildly ambitious overstatement of yours.

Starjade says: these matters were already proven long before I came to this forum. If you doubt my word then answer to those errors that exist in the Koran. You know being a Muslim that if just one error is found in the Koran then that is proof that the Koran did not come from God. So tell me now account for these errors that exist in the Koran. Remember that if you cannot, then the Sura 4:82 challenge of the Koran says: This is proof that the Koran did not come from God. These matters are facts that the Koran did not come from God.

Moses
The first concerns the adoption of Moses by Pharaoh's wife (in sura 28:9). This story contradicts the Biblical Exodus 2:10 version, which states that it was Pharaoh's daughter who adopted Moses. It is important to note here that had Pharaoh's wife adopted Moses, he would have consequently been adopted by Pharaoh himself, making him heir to the throne. This fact alone makes the subsequent story of Moses's capture and exile rather incredulous.

Mary & Imran:
One of the best known errors is that concerning the confusion between Mary, recorded in the Qur'an as the sister of Aaron and the daughter of Imran (Biblical Amran) as well as the mother of Jesus (by implication in suras 19:28; 66:12; 20:25-30), though the two, Mary and Miriam, lived 1,570 years apart.

Issa
The name for Jesus in the Qur'an is given as "Issa." Yet this is incorrect. Issa is the Arabic equivalent of Esau, the name for the twin brother of Jacob. The correct Arabic name for Jesus would be Yesuwa, similar to the Hebrew Yeshuwa, yet the supposedly "all-knowing" Qur'an has no mention of it.

Jinns & Shooting stars:
Meteors, and even stars are said to be missiles fired at eavesdropping Satans and jinn who seek to listen to the reading of the Qur'an in heaven, and then pass on what they hear to men in suras 37:6-10; 55:33-35; 67:5; & 72:6-9.

How are we to understand these suras? Can we believe indeed that Allah throws meteors, which are made up of carbon dioxide or iron-nickel, at non- material devils who steal a hearing at the heavenly council? And how do you explain the fact that many of earths meteors come in showers which consequently travel in parallel paths. Are we to thus understand that these parallel paths imply that the devils are all lined up in rows at the same moment?

Starjade continues: So then are you able to explain these errors away. The Sura 4:82 can explain why there are errors in the Koran and so can I.

Hanifan you say: Dream on! Bombast is nothing. What are you proving, where is the proof, what is this connection you boast of, who are you, Mr. Insignificant?

Starjade says: I am the Lord King Starjade the Doomsday Prophet. I am that very Prophet that the Living God promised Moses he would raise up. I proved this to be a fact to the Jews way back in 1995 when I approached the Jews with details of the apocalypse with a view to an Exodus of those Jews from the four corners of the globe. I used religious law the many signs in the Heavens and my own acts and deeds to prove that I am that very specific prophet and no other. The matter is still irrefutable.

Here is a Link that will show you how religious law says I can be proven to be a genuine Prophet who does have a provable connection to the Living God.

The Evidence and proof of Starjade. http://www.geocities.com/end_of_times/chaptertwo.htm

So you see Hanifan I can back my mouth up and I am no ordinary human being. In fact if you read of my Journey beyond the grave then you will see I was not even born on this Planet. Of course I have much more evidence than that but hey you know me I don’t like to brag.

starjade wrote:
The Sura 4:82 already has too many errors in it that no Muslim can explain away

Hanifan you say: ??????

Starjade says: What I meant to say was the Sura 4:82 being invoked by the challenge has exposed many errors in the Koran far too many for Muslims to just explain away. You yourself are stuck for a reply, you cannot account for all those errors, despite your claim, but the Sura 4:82 does give that account and explanation.

Hanifan you say: Please tell me where there is a discrepancy in this verse! I can't seem to find any.

Starjade says: Well most quotes of that verse say: Do they not consider the Koran with care for if it had come from any other than Allah then surely they would have found much discrepancy therein. But the error was placing such a verse in a book called the Koran that is full of errors. Proving that book did not come from God. And the Challenge of the Koran is if just one error is found in the Koran then the Koran did not come from God. This challenge it is claimed has existed for 1400 years and is open to all Muslims and non Muslims. Others have come before me showing those errors found in the Koran, but they were ignored. Now the real Doomsday Prophet Starjade was challenged with the Sura 4:82 and I also found errors in the Koran and I have my own reasons to expose Islam for the better good of mankind. Apart from that it is a cool statement.

Hanifan you say: Well, until you concede your off on a non-starter, the other spurious claims of yours concerning 'discrepancies' are going to be left dangling in the cold.

Starjade says: Sounds like you are using that as an excuse to shirk away from those errors that are proven to exist in the Koran. I think you have already realised that you are powerless against these Revelations. It is clear then that Islam is defenceless against my God given Revelations. Be aware that many came before you all who had that same intent and they all bit the dust and there has been so very many. Not just Muslims but Christians and atheists and all sorts of souls. Yet everyone has bitten the Dust. I am certainly the King of this apocalyptic Castle. And I also have challenged the worlds congregations to try and disprove my word and that is why so many came forwards to try. I did suggest in the beginnings that you go tell your Imams what has been said here as you will need a lot of help before you realise that you failed in the task you set before you.

Hanifan you say: No. You have an impossible task, I'm glad to say.

Starjade says: You forget already you could not answer a sound reply to the Sura 7:124 and I then named more errors that you already know you are not able to respond too. I reckon you are just blowing out wind for I have already proven the Koran did not come from God and you know that. That of course does reflect on the word of Muhammad. He did climb up that Mountain because he had gone Mad you know.

Hanifan you say: From the Furqan. (Look up the word if you don't know. There are two (which are in reality, one).)

Starjade says: aha a new word eh. What can it mean. A Muslims I met called Nicks taught me a cool word the word is Kuffar. It means one who hides the truth. Kuffars of course means those who hide the truth. I have met a lot of Kuffars in the past.

Two things that are one. Mmm yes I understand how such things can happen.

Starjade says: Yes I notice you avoid answering to that. Where in the Old Testament do you think such punishment is written. There is no place where such threats were made to the magicians the Koran is in error for its false accounts of past history.

Starjade says: You still have not disputed the facts I gave regarding why the Sura 7:124 being an error in the Koran. There were no threats made to those magicians.

Hanifan you say: So you admit there is no such statement. Simply a lack of corroborating evidence. You cannot prove there is a mistake in the Qur'an over this, just as I cannot prove that the Pharaoh ordered the crucifixion of the magicians.

Starjade says: Only the Koran says that the threat was made to those magicians, don’t you believe the Korans claims anymore eh? hahahaha I cannot believe that you are still obsessed with that. The magicians were never placed under any threat by the Pharaoh. So the Koran is in error. That is the error in the Sura 7:124.

The Old Testament clearly narrates the tales as was recorded by the Jews who lived in those Times. There was no threat made to the magicians hence they were not threatened. The Old Testament proves that. For if such a threat existed than it would have said so. But it did not. There is an error in the Koran because the Koran claims the Pharaoh threatened to cut off the hands and feet on opposite sides and then said he would crucify them. But it only says that in the Koran. The Koran is not writing out the history of the Pharaoh correctly the whole account of that Exodus is in error so there is more than one Sura in error in the Koran. The writers of the Koran tried to re write history with false accounts and by re wording already written Testimonies of real men who lived in those Times. So of course the Koran is in error on this issue of the claim of the threatening of the Pharaohs Magicians. The Koran account is proven to not be true at all.

Hanifan you say: By the way. It was not for lack of trying. I am pretty well read up on those we suspect were those magicians, now. But one story cannot be proven over another - so the evidence is neutral.

Starjade says: I do not agree with that as the Old Testament is many thousands of years older in history than the Koran. Those Testimonies were made thousands of years ago by the Jews who lived in those Times. Their account is genuine and it is not right to go altering the words and Testimonies of such men who died so long ago. You have to face the fact that the Magicians were not ever threatened by the Pharaoh as the Koran claims and the Koran has re written a false version of the events that had already been recorded thousands of years earlier. The Koran is in serious error making such claims and in the re wording of the Old Testament.

The very fact that the Old Testament is thousands of years older than the Koran proves its authenticity of its own words. The writers of the Koran cannot just come along and change all those Testimonies for their own convenience. There is a big discrepancy between the tale in the Old Testament against the tale of the Koran. They are remarkably different.

Hanifan you say:
The upshot is that you CANNOT PROVE WHAT THE QUR'AN SAYS TO BE WRONG, in this case.

Starjade says: Well I just did and the Sura 4:82 is all about such errors in the Koran. How can we be diligent Judges if we allow such errors to just be ignored when they clearly do exist so openly as well.

Hanifan you say:
Yes I was. I wanted you to prove the allegation that what the Qur'an said about the Bakers dream and the crucifixion of the baker, and the threat to and crucifixion of the magicians were both false. You manifestly failed to prove both these cases, al hamdulillah. Now you reluctantly concede a kind of semi defeat. Once you formally admit you have no substancial proof, we can go on to the next of your so called 'errors' in the Qur'an.

Starjade says: The Baker was not crucified he was hanged. The statement of how he was to die existed only in the relation to the dream. Even in the losing of his head that would still not be the same as the Cutting off of the hands and feet on opposite sides and then crucifying him. So you are speaking of a different incident not the Sura 7:124 which we had been talking about. The Magicians were not threatened with such punishment at all. It only claims that in the error of the Koran Sura 7:124;

The Old Testament are already written books thousands of years older than the Koran. The Koran is already written and you quoted its text and I quoted the Old Testament text and they are not the same. The Old Testament is the valid source of data being written first and so its text is correct. But the Koran well that is a newer thing trying to claim Muhammad as being a Prophet that would be impossible for him to be . And the text of the Koran has been proven to be false and with more than the one Sura of 7:124.

So I proved errors do exist in the Koran. That error means the Koran did not come from God (Eeeek) Can you hear the Jinns cackling with laughter as they come looking for you. You are a worshipper of false Prophets and Gods of your false Prophets imaginations. And there are many errors in the Koran over 500 I have heard tell. I only need to show one error in the Koran to prove the Koran did not come from God. But in my view that is not enough. More errors proven mean the matter is settled without argument. That is why I personally named 21 error found in the Koran that are still undisputed.

Hanifan you say:
The rest of your post (concerning Deut 18:15 and 18:18 ) I disagree with - and you'll never be able to prove your contention there, either. Believe me, I have had a lot of experience debating that particular point.

Starjade says: Much as I respect you being a man of Knowledge especially of religious knowledge albeit tainted from the misdirection’s of the Koran. I think you will learn that I am the one who can back my mouth up. You have not met the likes of me before and I am the absolute expert on the Prophet that the living God promised Moses he would raise up. I often use religious law and religious and historical facts to back my mouth up including of course the actual word of the Living God.

Hanifan you say: But I want to concentrate on these so called 'discrepancies' of yours. So let us limit the discussion to those, for the present. However, before I go on to the next, I want a concession from you for every one that I knock down as being a false accusation by you before I go on to the next. That condition applies to the crucifixion stories we have been discussing, too.

Starjade says: These are genuine errors found in the Koran, and by other scholars I might add. But they are true aren’t they. If you prove they are not errors then you have proven that without question. But if you leave one error in the Koran then that is proof that the Koran did not come from God. There is no concession either it is either an error or it is not. There is no middle ground. Either it is true or false wrong or right. The error of the 7: 124 and the claiming of the threat of cutting off of the hands and feet on opposite sides and then crucifying them did not occur and so that is one error already proven to exist in the Koran. Remember we already have the Old Testament Statements that existed years before Muhammad was even born. And the Sura runs on into a very long statement that is not according to the original text of the Old Testament.
As for the rest of my post concerning Deut 18-15 18-18 Starjades 21 errors found in the Koran are still irrefutable and the error 21 shows that I am also a part of this equasion.

Hanifan you say: You must be joking! Have you ever heard of the science of recording ahadith. There are so many witnesses to Muhammad's prophethood that the condition you state has been fulfilled more than a thousand times over.

Starjade says: I was Joking of course as we both know that Muhammad has no witnesses. There is no witness to this Angel Gabriel there is no witness to this encounter on the Mountainside and there are no witnesses to Muhammad flying off to heaven. These witnesses that you think you have are nothing more than characters spoken about by the books writer. Muhammad has no witnesses.

You speak of witnesses to Muhammad and you then do as Iris does. You say quotes of the Koran and name characters that are named in that book that some writer wrote and you then think those characters he mentions are acceptable witnesses. When in fact they are characters and claims that the writer of the Koran has dreamed up with fanciful tales implanted to beguile. Islamic experts taught me the religion of Islam, so I know already that there are no witnesses to Muhammad’s encounters with this claimed angel Gabriel. The Sura 4:82 proves errors exist in the Koran which already proves the Testimonies of the Koran are not trust worthy. And the Koran did not come from God and so it is used to making outrageous claims.

If Muhammad was accused of Blasphemy then that is a crime of iniquity and sin. The Law of Deuteronomy Ch 19 v 15 would be invoked. Two or three witnesses would be brought to bear witness for or against the one accused. Muhammad has no witnesses to his claims so he would be and has been found guilty of those Crimes of iniquity and sin.

Hanifan hear my words as I will make this Simple for you, to show you how easy it should be to prove yourself or anyone to being Gods Prophet.
I point out that a law exists in the Old Testament of the religious book the Holy Bible. This religious law states in Deuteronomy Chapter 19 Verse 15: One witness shall not rise up against a man for any iniquity or for any sin, in any sin that he sinneth: At the mouth of two witnesses, or at the mouth of three witnesses, shall the matter be established.

This is a witness law that is designed to determine matters of the truth especially about statements that could be deemed as being blasphemous or sinful. It is not a matter for your own personal opinion; even if nobody wanted to believe the evidence that is presented. If that law is fulfilled, then legally it is binding and should stand good according to religious law.
I name four witnesses who can prove that I am a Prophet with a true and provable connection to the Living God. Here is that evidence that my words are true.
http://www.geocities.com/end_of_times/chaptertwo.htm

Starjade says: Do you see how easy that was for me to do. If your Imams or anyone accused me of Blasphemy then I could go to trial and demand these witnesses be brought forwards for they are alive today in our world and look at just what they are witnesses to. A Real genuine Prophet who can be proven to have a connection to the Living God.
Now why can you not do something that simple to prove Muhammad is the Prophet that Muhammad is claiming himself to be and with as much ease and confidence that I have shown. It is already a known fact that Muhammad has no real witnesses. It is all just his own word and hearsay. This is not some secret everyone already knows these things.

Starjade says: By the way it is not the place of your Imams to Judge me. They are Muslims and followers of false Prophets and a God of that false Prophets imagination. Only the descendants of Abraham, their Kings and their Priests who live in these Times. It is their place alone not anyone else’s. Muslims have no religious authority to Judge me over these religious issues at all. Beware Islam if you dare to try. Only the descendants of Abraham have such a right. After all perhaps you forget that these matters are pertaining to their religion. It is a Jewish matter not Islamic or Christian these are Jewish matters. However I point out that according to the law of Deuteronomy Ch 19 v 15. My words and claims are already proven to be true. Clearly then the claims that I have made are established as being true in accordance with religious law. That law already proves my word is true and so I was not even asking the Jews for their opinion. The Jews are bound by those religious laws. So the matter is proven by Old Testament law as a guide to those Jews.

Hanifan you say: Revelation in the Qur'an Fatrah

Starjade says: I think I am the only one here giving true Revelations.

Hanifan you say: Again, I think I'll pass on responding to a man who says his word is the only valid one because he is 'the prophet of the living God'.

Starjade says: The Old Testament law of Deuteronomy Ch 19 v 15 states clearly that I am a Prophet who does have a connection to the Living God. So I have been quoting religious law and not voicing my own opinion. Whatever is the truth is the truth and must be accepted as being true. Whatever is false must be rejected as being false because it is false. This is not about opinions but about facts taken from quotes from Old Testament and the Koranic text. So far I have proven my word true and you have not been able to dispute that. These are the facts no matter what our origins are.

Hanifan you say: Many claims have gone before him, and no doubt others will come after. Jesus foretold the rise of many false prophets and Muhammad foretold the rise of the Dajjals, until finally 'the King of Liars' (The Anti-Christ of Christian belief is doubtless the same being) will rise up and lead the Misguided to Destruction against Jesus and the Muslim nation he revives.

Starjade says: Oh how sweet of you to quote from Jesus and Muhammad who both claim themselves to be the very same Prophet that the Living God promised Moses he would raise up. I suppose that took some people eyes off them as they are already both proven by religious law to be false Prophets, and who are both claiming themselves to be the same Prophet that God promised Moses he would raise up. As for myself perhaps you missed the part where the religious law of Deuteronomy Ch 19 v 15 says it can be proven that I am a genuine Prophet who does have a provable connection to the Living God eh.? Did your Koran or Jesus or Muhammad ever explain that fact away to you.

Hanifan you say:
1) Only God knows the unseen. What you can't see and I can't see you can neither prove to be true or false. And neither can I.
Starjade says: Time and religious law and the word of God proves my word is True. I know things that are unseen to you. And I can prove the things you cannot yet see that I have spoken about are all true.
Hanifan you say: 2) He did? Where was that. I must have missed it, somehow. :scratch:

Starjade says: Where was what am I to guess your words.
Hanifan you say: 3). The exact quote from the Torah is not given in the Qur'an, though a reference to the prophecy in the Angelia is made.

Starjade says: You cannot back your mouth up as easily as I can. Doesn’t that make you wonder. ?

Hanifan you say: But you see, your view doesn't cut it. I suspect every Muslim who has disputed with you has proved your self opinionated views to be so much hot air - but you are simply unable to perceive your ignimonious self delusion.

Starjade says: Have you noticed that Dr Maybe has shirked away ? You will do the same when you make that fool of yourself after stating such a foolish thing. Nobody likes to be told their religion is false especially when it is outright proven in front of their faces. You are the Muslim and so the delusions are all yours. I prove my word with facts and so you are already powerless and it shows when you casually ignore the many errors that have been placed before you. You will run away when it all cascades down on you in the coldest of realities. Be sure that some one with my paranormal abilities and God given Revelations and superior religious knowledge is far more in touch with reality than you could ever dream to be.

I am hardly full of hot air when I have you in such a stuck position. I laugh at your delusions when you talk as if you are going to dispute those many errors that I have named already that exist in the Koran. Hardly hot air when you are already flapping about and stuck for excuses and are unable to respond. I have proven the Koran did not come from God via the use of the Sura 4:82. The matters are clearly irrefutable. You and I both know that you are unable to dispute that fact. Muslims are stuck. You cannot dispute my words of truth and instead of letting that be a revelation to you instead you go in denial.

Hanifan you say: That one makes me laugh and splutter. You are depending on the law of reliable witnesses for the judgement of a case of Qasas to prove yourself a prophet? Boy, do I pity you. Your ability as a Dajjal is pitiful. I'm afraid no one will be fooled. You'll have to just bow out and let a better liar take your place. The Masih Dajjal, of course, it completely above of your league. That is one who will have half the world eating out of his palms.

Starjade says: hahaha wishful thinking on your part eh.? The Old Testament law binds the Jews. Nobody was asking them for their opinion. The law speaks for them. Perhaps you forget you are a Muslim. The Prophet that the Living God promised Moses he would raise up was coming here only to save the descendants of Abraham. No Christians or Muslims or Hindu or whatever are on his agenda. So you are not the one I would need to convince. I did point out I have already proven to those Jews way back in 1995 that I am that specific Prophet that the Living God promised Moses he would raise up and as religious law bind the Jews then I wasn’t even asking them for their opinion. You forget that this long awaited Prophet that God promised Moses he would raise up is of the Jews religion. It is not Islamic or Christian, it is Jewish. So stay your opinions and shallow views. You are missing out on the bigger picture and forgetting that those are matters which you cannot Judge.

As a Prophet I Prophesies and so people do notice such things. As for the religious law of Deuteronomy Ch 19 v 15. let me see your Imams dare to accuse me of Blasphemy publicly. I will eat them for breakfast in any public forum, everyone already knows that as you have all seen that with your own eyes. Islam is powerless against me. I have already quoted Islamic law for those Islamic experts who taught me also spoke of Islamic law and they taught me wisely. So even in a Muslim country I will still eat your Imams for breakfast and there is nothing any Muslim on this Planet can do about that fact is there.

You know that and I know that and they already sure as hell know that. So wake up to reality and do stop voicing out your shallow opinions that are in no way based on any facts. I have already proven myself a long Time ago and so that matter is irrefutable. A great many have already come before you all attempting to dispute those facts but found that they could not and so they all bit the dust. I am someone who can even convert Muslims, because I use Islamic laws that demand that they reject what is not true. The Koran is proven to be in Error and so Islamic law says that the Koran must be rejected.

When the Hebrews met Moses. He led them all into the Red Sea. But when Muslims met the Doomsday Prophet Starjade they all went into denial.

Hanifan you say: Roll up. Roll up! See for yourself : A minor Dajjal !!

Starjade says: You should remind yourself that Muhammad has no witnesses to prove his claims. The Sura 4:82 already proves Muhammads words are not true. According to the Law of Deuteronomy Ch 19 v 15 I only needed to produce two or three witnesses but hey I named Four. Your scoffing does not hide you from that cold reality. And those Old testament laws bind the Jews.

Hanifan you said: Of course you can, oh legal witness to Qasas.

Starjade says: Yes these things can be proven and I already proved the Koran did not come from God and I did that in front of your eyes. You are hardly in any position to dispute that fact as it is now written history. Muhammad never fulfilled the living Gods Prophecy. He could not and did not.

The worlds religious leaders cannot dispute or disprove my claims or statements. I challenged them a long Time ago. Many thought they could dispute my words after all it does all sound too unbelievable. But they found they were mistaken.

Why should anyone be surprised at my appearance after all the Living God did foretell that I was coming here and at a Time when specific Signs in the Heavens were to appear in conjunction with each other. OH YEAH WHO HAVE SUCH LITTLE FAITH. I proved who I was using Religious law the many signs in the heavens and my own acts and deeds and some other stuff. That is not something that anyone can do.

Jesus and Muhammad did not have such irrefutable proof. In fact they are easily proven to be frauds as I have shown. I was born to do this task and I am very good at what I do. That is why I am the Chosen one. Chosen by the all wise Living God himself. You should respect the Living God and not argue with insults against the Living Gods decisions. To Me you should hearken.
_________________
The End of Times Doomsday Prophet.
The Lord King and King of Kings Starjade.
The Crown of the Living White Sphere of Kether.

Last edited by Starjade on Tue Jan 04, 2005 8:28 pm; edited 2 times in total

Quote:
Jinns & Shooting stars: Meteors, and even stars are said to be missiles fired at eavesdropping Satans and jinn who seek to listen to the reading of the Qur'an in heaven, and then pass on what they hear to men in suras 37:6-10; 55:33-35; 67:5; & 72:6-9. How are we to understand these suras? Can we believe indeed that Allah throws meteors, which are made up of carbon dioxide or iron-nickel, at non- material devils who steal a hearing at the heavenly council? And how do we explain the fact that many of earths meteors come in showers which consequently travel in parallel paths. Are we to thus understand that these parallel paths imply that the devils are all lined up in rows at the same moment? These are errors that I challenge you to respond to as your so full of self opinions. When you cannot reply a sound answer then realize that the Sura 4:82 tells you why those errors exist in the Koran.

Ameena you say: The shooting stars are meant to drive away the jinn from places they shouldn’t be. They are not aimed specifically to “shoot” the jinn directly. Therefore, the jinn would not be lined up in a row.

You know, your claims and “errors” sound extremely similar, if not, exactly like Dr. Campbell’s. There are many sites dedicated to refutations similar to yours. Why do you continue to debate with us, when your claims are found everywhere? Do you think you are some divinely ingenious man with interesting new claims? I think not. Your arguments are nothing new.

Starjade says: hahahahaha ahahaha hahahahahahahahahahah (cough ) splutter ; hahahahahahahahahaha so you believe in these Jinns then eh? Hahahahahahahaha cough splutter oh dear I fear I may splat out my nose goo across the computer screen you made me laugh so much.

Quote:
This error exists in the Koran. Can you dispute that?.The first concerns the adoption of Moses by Pharaoh's wife (in sura 28:9). This story contradicts the Biblical Exodus 2:10 version, which states that it was Pharaoh's daughter who adopted Moses. It is important to note here that had Pharaoh's wife adopted Moses, he would have consequently been adopted by Pharaoh himself, making him heir to the throne. This fact alone makes the subsequent story of Moses's capture and exile rather incredulous.

Ameena you say: Moses was brought to the Pharaoh’s wife. She was a gentle believer, while the Pharaoh was a harsh disbeliever, but he allowed her to adopt Moses. Moses was raised as a prince until he fled the land. He came back to liberate his people. I am only summarizing the story since I assume you, the self-proclaimed expert on religion, should know the rest. What is it that you don’t understand?

Starjade says: It was the daughter of the Pharaoh not his wife who adopted Moses. By your own admission you point out error in the Koran. Old Testament Ch2 verse 10. And the child grew and she brought him unto the Pharaohs daughter and he became her son. And she called his name Moses and she said because I drew him out of the water.
_________________
The End of Times Doomsday Prophet.
The Lord King and King of Kings Starjade.
The Crown of the Living White Sphere of Kether.

I said I wouldn't respond to you until you admitted defeat over the first of your so called errors in the Qur'an. Your gloating over Ameena's attempt to correct your thinking forced me, however, to come to her defence.

Starjade says: It was the daughter of the Pharaoh not his wife who adopted Moses. By your own admission you point out error in the Koran.

Old Testament Ch2 verse 10. "And the child grew and she brought him unto the Pharaoh's daughter and he became her son. And she called his name Moses and she said because I drew him out of the water."

I say:

Bible in Historical Perspectives

According to this historical progression Moses was adopted by Princess Hatshepsut, the daughter of Pharaoh Amenhotep I, who died in -1526. In -1525, when she was 15, Moses adopted by Hatshepsut, nursed and possibly educated by his mother Jochebed. This was a year after Pharaoh Thutmose I had taken the throne.
In order to become Pharaoh, a man, perhaps even her brother, must marry the daughter of the Pharaoh who left the throne vacant.
Thus, as well as being the daughter of the Pharaoh (out going) she was the wife of the extant Pharaoh, still without issue because he had only been married for one year.
Hatsheput was the dominant political power through two generations, losing her political grip to Pharaoh Thutmose III in -1483, when he was 32 and she was 57.

This puts the verse Exodus 2:10 into context. The one who adopted Moses, as well as being the recently departed Pharaoh's daughter, was the brand new Pharaoh's wife.
_________________
Verily, I have turned my face towards Him Who has created the heavens and the earth 'hanifa', and I am not of the idolators.

Last edited by hanifan on Sat Jan 01, 2005 10:44 am; edited 3 times in total

1. Where are the testimonies of Rob Brockers and Steve Conchie, Jeff Thompson and the female translator?
2. Did they see your collective 'Living God'?
_________________
Verily, I have turned my face towards Him Who has created the heavens and the earth 'hanifa', and I am not of the idolators.

[I said I wouldn't respond to you until you admitted defeat over the first of your so called errors in the Qur'an. Your gloating over Ameena's attempt to correct your thinking forced me, however, to come to her defence.

Starjade says: Yes I did notice that you said you would not respond unless I said I had been defeated by you. However it is you who are defeated and I am not going to bow to your wishes over your dreamings. The Magicians were not ever threatened by the Pharaoh and so the Koran is in error. If you want to use this as an excuse to shirk those other errors that I have said exist in the Koran then go ahead and shirk away. It is expected after all we both know you cannot reply an answer for those errors. They are errors and that matter is proven., So I will allow you to escape that reality and shirk away. As clearly that is your only option.

Hanifan you say: I say: Bible in Historical Perspectives

According to this historical progression Moses was adopted by Princess Hatshepsut, the daughter of Pharaoh Amenhotep I, who died in -1526. In -1525, when she was 15, Moses adopted by Hatshepsut, nursed and possibly educated by his mother Jochebed. [/quote]

Starjade says: According to the Old Testament The maiden of the Pharaohs daughter suggested that they call a Hebrew woman to nurse Moses. Which is what was done. I thought only one Pharaoh ruled at a Time. It is clear then that the Daughter of the Pharaoh adopted Moses and there was no mention of that woman being married at that Time to any Pharaoh.

[quote]
This was a year after Pharaoh Thutmose I had taken the throne. In order to become Pharaoh, a man, perhaps even her brother, must marry the daughter of the Pharaoh who left the throne vacant. Thus, as well as being the daughter of the Pharaoh (out going) she was the wife of the extant Pharaoh, still without issue because he had only been married for one year. Hatsheput was the dominant political power through two generations, losing her political grip to Pharaoh Thutmose III in -1483, when he was 32 and she was 57. This puts the verse Exodus 2:10 into context. The one who adopted Moses, as well as being the recently departed Pharaoh's daughter, was the brand new Pharaoh's wife.

Starjade says: Mmm now that is an interesting answer. How come then this marriage of the Pharaohs daughter was not mentioned in the Old Testament. So is this again another Islamic claim. Wasn’t Ramesise the Pharaoh. of that Time. I shall have to investigate what you have said before I can reply fairly to you on this matter. But if what you have said is true then that would be an acceptable explanation.
_________________
The End of Times Doomsday Prophet.
The Lord King and King of Kings Starjade.
The Crown of the Living White Sphere of Kether.

Last edited by Starjade on Wed Jan 05, 2005 9:09 pm; edited 2 times in total

[quote="hanifan"]

Starjade says: There are no written Testimonies yet from Rob Brockers of Steve Conchie or Jeff Thomson or that female translator. The Jews are aware of how they can contact those people and I now have Steve Conchies business tel number and fax number. I will not contact them asking for such Testimonies as that would appear collusion.

Those Testimonies may be gathered at the Time the descendants of Abraham have the gall to accuse me of Blasphemy, which I am certain they dare not do. Only then need those Testimonies be gathered together under such an historic investigation. When I have publicly been accused of that crime of iniquity and sin. Then those Testimonies from those people will prove my word is true. Which it is anyway. When these apocalyptic thoughts crossed my mind I never realised at that Time just how easy it would be to prove that I am a Prophet with a provable connection to the Living God. Thank God eh for the Law of Deuteronomy Ch 19 v 15. I am sure that you can see that according to that law my words can be proven for real to be true without question.

The descendants of Abraham already are aware that those are true witnesses for I spoke of them to the Jews long before the apocalypse and the Exodus were even on my mind. The International Order of Kabbalist brought on this talk of the apocalypse and I do see that as a good way to save the lives of literally billions of people who are about to meet a grave fate.

The Jews do not want a public proclamation proving that I am that Prophet that they have been waiting for. They know they owe the Living God trillions in tax that I will certainly be demanding. If they cannot pay that tax then they are in debit and Jewish law then says they must work for free until that tax is made. I reckoned on splitting that tax amongst the two tribes of Abraham Ishmael and Isaac. And the Jews then would have to openly Exodus from the four corners of the globe and they will see me sell of the present lands of Israel for larger land in Africa where I will build that third Temple. My Exodus plans were most exacting and still have not changed either it gets done my way or no way.

Those Jews know those witnesses will verify the statements that I have made and the descendants of Isaac know they broke their Covenant with the Living God. Being such blasphemous people it came as no surprise to me and I am sure they prefer these matters did not become public knowledge. But be sure I will not let this world forget the Blasphemy of those Jews. Hence I moved on to the descendants of Ishmael and their Golden Calf the Koran. They can be converted if I choose to make such an effort and that will be my way of slapping the face of the descendants of Isaac for their blasphemy and their conspiracies to help the Crown of England harm my children and myself.

The point is that the law says what they must do and if they do not accuse me of Blasphemy then it is of no matter as that is then them accepting the statements I have made in my Testimonies without question. Which is the wise as those claims and statements are true and the Jews are very much aware there are witnesses to back my mouth up.

As for other witnesses to the Living God. I am sure there are many but not here on earth. Unless they describe the Living God as I have done then what they are seeing is false. Even Jesus and Muhammad and all the so-called prophets of God in the Old Testament and even though I grudge even the New Testament which has those who claim they are Prophesying for God. None of them have given a true account or description of the Living God at all.

When I was seeing those earthquakes and that volcano erupting and other grave disasters that I spoke about to Rob Brockers and co. The Living God was not there. This was my own power. This power came unexpected as I was going to relate those apocalyptic earthquakes and then got sidetracked by these other things.

Those witnesses did not see those angelic astral denizens either. Only I could see them in my trance state. What proves my word of those issues is the fact that I spoke about that Mexican woman and those babies at length one year before they were even buried and I sent those angels to that Mexican woman and those babies and they did survive that Mexican Earthquake. I am sure that even you will have heard of that Mexician woman and those Babies as they are now world famous and certainly classed as a Miracle.

I have simply explained what happened. Rob Brockers did notice I was speaking with someone he could not see and so I did tell him at that Time who had appeared. Rather a difficult thing for me to do at that Time especially as such things are beyond the comprehension of mankind. At the Time such explanations did not seem to be of importance. I never expected these matters to ever arise again. But the Kabbalist spoke of the apocalypse to me and I had not realised that I had been describing an apocalypse to them. When I did realise these things it was clear to me that this was a weird yet possible way of saving the lives of potentially billions of people especially as the Old Testament law of Deuteronomy Ch 19 v 15 says two or three witnesses is enough to establish the matter as being true.

What better way than using religious law that binds the Jews. Especially as when I would speak others would see what I have said as being blasphemous in regards to their own personal beliefs. But they cannot think that when religious law proves my word is true. And it is not as if I am ever going to be silent on these apocalyptic matters. Now I will be creating maps of the apocalypse using NASA satellite photographs of this Planet to re create that apocalyptic scene accurately and make it into a Movie. I have been trained to use flash applications for that specific task. Religion and curiosity will entice others to buy those CD ROMS just to see what happened. That is my way forwards. But it all does seem so pointless when religious law on Blasphemy says I must leave everyone to die. That is inconvenient.

Either way the Living God was not present at that Time of my Prophesying to Rob Brockers and Steve Conchie.. But I did come from the Living God and it is clear that during that birth at the Core of the Living White Sphere something inside me at an atomic astral level has changed me and given me some very unusual and potent power that could help me change the future of this Planet. I did not have that intense power before my rebirth. I have always been an accurate Prophet but not of that power on that day when the Lights of my Crown were lit showing me such knowledge of that future Time.

I do not have the abilities to tap this raw power at will. It just sort of happens. There are ways to induce my trance stating but since that Time I have been distracted by the evil on this earth. And so these life saving matters are no longer of importance to me. After all Blasphemy carries the death penalty. So I have a duty to the Living God first to leave those who are guilty of Blasphemy to die, as that then is known to be the will of the Living God.
_________________
The End of Times Doomsday Prophet.
The Lord King and King of Kings Starjade.
The Crown of the Living White Sphere of Kether.

Last edited by Starjade on Wed Jan 05, 2005 9:08 pm; edited 1 time in total

Now that did take you a long time to get back, unfortunately with a worthless response.

a) I challenge you to find such an explanation from Islamic scholars.
b) Try and find any Islamic sources for the story I gave you. You womn't be able to find them.
c) read the links I put up. That is where I worked out the answer to you.
d) if you are relying entirely upon Biblical writing to back you up you can't deny my answer to your 'no crucifixion in the time of the pharoah' claim.
e)relying on the Bible in refuting and finding errors in the qur'an is fruitless, since it is the Word directly from God (In the Qur'an) that abrogates anf corrects the records of God's message in the Bible today. Thus all your so called 'errors' are not in the Qur'an, but on the Bible which the Qur'an corrects.
f) My response is not an 'Islamic' claim, it is recorded by Western historians, archeologists and scholars of those times, and western Biblical scholars.

Starjade, if you want to be believed bring forward your documented evidence. Otherwise admit you were wrong again in calling God a liar, and let us proceed to your other supposed errors.

Also. I read that response to me on another forum when I was searching for the testimonies. Playing along with your notion that Deuteronomy 19:15 can be used to establish your prophethood fpr the moment (something I anticipate disproving in its entirety, soon, insha'allah (God Willing) when I have the time to analyse your claim thoroughly), what it boils down to is that you high faluting claims aren't worth the bytes of computer space they take up. Your claim for witnesses goes up in smoke and you become subject to the punishment exacted from false witnesses in Deuteronomy 19:19-21.

How can you be seen as anything but a minor dajjal after this?
_________________
Verily, I have turned my face towards Him Who has created the heavens and the earth 'hanifa', and I am not of the idolators.

THIS POST IS TO WARN READERS OF THIS THREAD ABOUT THE DAJJAL. NOT THAT I THINK STARJADE IS MASIH AL DAJJAL, BUT THAT HE MAY BE ONE OF THE MANY DAJJALS WHO WILL PRESAGE THE COMING OF THE ONE DAJJAL WHOSE FITNAH WILL BRING ON THE FINAL WAR AND THE RETURN OF MASIH 'EISA, ALAYHIS-SALAM, JUST BEFORE THE DAY OF JUDGMENT.

Rasulullah (Salallahu Alayhi Wasallam) said:

Before the emergence of Dajjal there will be three spells of drought. In one year the skies will withold one third of its rains, causing the earth to withold one third of its produce. In the second year the skies will withold two thirds of its rains, causing the earth to withold two thirds of its produce. In the third year, the skies will withold all its water and there will be no crops that year. All animals, be they hooved or toothed, will die as a result.

I have explained Dajjal to you but I fear that you might not have understood. Maseeh Dajjal will be short, and his legs will be crooked. The hair on his head will be extremely twisted. He will have one protruding eye while his other eye will be totally flat. It will neither be deep (in its socket) nor protruding.
If you still have any doubt regarding him then remember that your Lord is not one-eyed. (Because Dajjal will eventually claim to be Allah).

I asked Rasulullah (Sallallahu Alayhi Wassallam) about Dajjal.
He said, "How can he possibly harm you?"
I said: "People are saying that he will have with him a mountain of bread (provisions) and a river of water."
He said: "In the sight of Allah he is much more disgraced than that.
(i.e. Allah knows full well that in reality Dajjal has nothing with him, and all that which appears to be with him is but deception).

Those who hear about Dajjal should stay far from him. By Allah! A person will approach him thinking him to be a Believer, but on seeing his amazing feats he will become his follower.

The greatest evil of Dajjall will be to approach anyone and ask him: "If I bring your camel back to life, will you then believe that I am your Rabb?"
This person will reply, "Most certainly." Thereafter Shaytaan (from the many Shayateen who will always accompany Dajjal) will appear before this person in the form of his camel with a fat hump and fully laden udders.

Likewise Dajjal will appear before another person whose father and brother have long passed away and ask him, "If I bring your father and brother back to life will you believe that I am your Rabb?"
This person will reply, "Why not?"
Shaytaan will once again take on the appearance of his brother and father.

Other Ahadeeth regarding Dajjal inform us that:

Dajjal will emerge between Shaam and Iraq, and his emergence will become known when he is in Isfahaan at a place called Yahudea. He will stay on this Earth for a period of forty days; the length of the first day will be one year, the second day will be equal to one month, the third day will be equal to a week and the remaining days will be normal.

He will lay claim to prophet hood.

He will then lay claim to Divinity.

He will perform unusual feats.

He will travel the entire world. He will send down rains upon those who believe in him, which in turn will cause good crops to grow, trees to bear fruit and cattle to grow fat. He will travel at great speeds and his means of conveyance will be a gigantic mule. It is said that he will play beautiful music which will attract the music lovers.

The treasures hidden will spill forth at his command.

He will have with him fire and water, but in reality the fire will be cold water while that what appears to be cold water will in reality be a blazing fire. Those who obey him will enter "his Jannat" while those who disobey him will enter "his Jahannam."

The Yahudis (Jews) of Isfahaan will be his main followers.
Apart from having mainly Yahudi followers, he will have a great number of women followers as well.

He will cause drought to those who disbelieve in him, resulting in starvation and hardship for them. During those trying times the Mu'mineen will satiate their hunger through the recitation of Subhanallah and La'ilaha Ilallahu.

Dajjal will come and finally reach the outskirts of Madina. There will be three tremors. At that time, all the disbelievers and hypocrites will flee (from Madina).

The letters "Kaa" "Faa" "Raa" will appear on his forehead and will be deciphered by all Mu'mineen regardless of them being literate or not.
_________________
Verily, I have turned my face towards Him Who has created the heavens and the earth 'hanifa', and I am not of the idolators.

Starjade wrote:
hanifan wrote:
The one who adopted Moses, as well as being the recently departed Pharaoh's daughter, was the brand new Pharaoh's wife.
Mmm now that is an interesting answer. How come then this marriage of the Pharaohs daughter was not mentioned in the Old Testament. So is this again another Islamic claim. Wasn’t Ramesise the Pharaoh. of that Time. I shall have to investigate what you have said before I can reply fairly to you on this matter. But if what you have said is true then that would be an acceptable explanation.

Hanifan you say: Now that did take you a long time to get back, unfortunately with a worthless response.

Starjade says: In case you forget this time of year is holiday season for many and so buildings have been closed and I have been unable to get onto a computer to reply. But I will always catch up so it is not hard for you to have a little patience. Also I have many emails to answer and I write on many forums and so I do do other things besides so my Time gets taxed. My response is one of caution as your reply was unexpected then I must see if what you have said is true. It is clear from the Old Testament text that the Pharaoh that was being mentioned was the father of the daughter. Now you say this daughter was married to a Pharaoh, which is news to me. So I will reply when I learn if she was married however the statements were pertaining to the father of the Daughter not some husband. So you added a new dimension. But I will investigate your claims however do not get too cocky for you still have some 500 errors yet to go through and I already know your avoiding talking about those Jinn’s and angels.

Hanifan you say: a) I challenge you to find such an explanation from Islamic scholars.

Starjade says: Idolaters for Islam are not the best witnesses.

Hanifan you say:
b) Try and find any Islamic sources for the story I gave you. You won't be able to find them.

Starjade says: I rather suspect you are telling the truth, as this married daughter is new news to me. So tell me then where do you get your information from. Was it invented well be sure in my investigations I will find out. If the daughter was not married during that Moses period then you still have no explanations to the claims of the Koran that it was the Pharaohs wife who adopted Moses. This meaning the ruling Pharaoh who the Old Testament states his daughter adopted Moses.

Hanifan you say:
c) read the links I put up. That is where I worked out the answer to you.

Starjade says: The point is whether or not you are correct. If you are right that can explain why the Koran says wife not daughter. But the Old Testament text speaks of the daughter’s father as being the Pharaoh mentioned. Now you imply that this daughter was married to a Pharaoh. That is the first I have heard of it and will not just ignore any possibilities. After all it is not that important when I know some 500 errors existing in the Koran and only one error needs to be found to prove the Koran did not come from God as Muslims and Muhammad have claimed. A claim I already know for obvious reasons to be untrue.

Hanifan you say:
d) if you are relying entirely upon Biblical writing to back you up you can't deny my answer to your 'no crucifixion in the time of the pharaoh' claim.

Starjade says: The Koran is false accounting religious history with its own words. The Magicians were not threatened or killed. They did not have their hands cut off on either side and they were not crucified and they were not placed under any threat whatsoever. So on those points the Koran is still flawed with errors and trust me I know some 500 error in the Koran and I already know that Muslims cannot account for them.

Hanifan you say:
e) relying on the Bible in refuting and finding errors in the qur'an is fruitless, since it is the Word directly from God (In the Qur'an) that abrogates and corrects the records of God's message in the Bible today. Thus all your so-called 'errors' are not in the Qur'an, but on the Bible which the Qur'an corrects.

Starjade says: So then you can explain why Muhammad believed in Jesus and why 11 chapters of the Koran glorify Jesus as being the Prophet that Jesus was claimed to be. When the Prophet that Jesus has claimed himself to be is that very Prophet that God promised Moses he would raise up. That is the very same Prophet that Muhammad is claiming himself to be.

This is an error that you have avoided and it clearly shows that the Koran did not come from God as you are claiming with your idolatry. The Koran is the deception the false book that in no way speaks the words of God. And I know that for a fact. But as a Muslim I understand why you must flatter your false religious beliefs. But you would flatter it more if you answered to those many errors that exist in the Koran that we both know you are not able. The Old Testament was written long before the Koran and so it is genuine regarding its own text that the Koran itself uses in proportion. But the accounts in the Koran are proven to be untrue. So that Islamic deception has been found out.

Hanifan you say:
f) My response is not an 'Islamic' claim, it is recorded by Western historians, archaeologists and scholars of those times, and western Biblical scholars.

Starjade says: That is where I shall be investigating the married claim of the Pharaohs daughter.

Hanifan you say: Starjade, if you want to be believed bring forward your documented evidence. Otherwise admit you were wrong again in calling God a liar, and let us proceed to your other supposed errors.

Starjade says: You can approach any of those errors that you have been shirking and try and reply. I have never called the Living God a liar. The lies all come from the words of Muslims and the Koran. The Koran did not come from God just because you claim it to be. There is much contradictory evidence that shoots your claims down in flames. We both know that. So you may have grabbed a straw but you are still drowning. And I would appreciate you not voicing your own opinions as if they are my thoughts when they are just yours. And how can I be wrong this adoption of Moses was an error that came from another scholar who has clearly studied the Koran in depth. If you want to try and prove that I am in error then you will have to dissect and dispute and disprove the 21 errors that I have named exist in the Koran. You will find that an impossible task. Sura 4:82 21 error found by Starjade that exist in the Koran. http://www.geocities.com/end_of_times/surahfoureighthytwo.html

Hanifan you say: Also. I read that response to me on another forum when I was searching for the testimonies. Playing along with your notion that Deuteronomy 19:15 can be used to establish your prophethood fpr the moment (something I anticipate disproving in its entirety, soon, insha'allah (God Willing)

Starjade says: Dream on as I am an expert in that field of knowledge and will eat you for breakfast. The law is clear two or three witness can prove a thing is true by religious law. Why do you think you know the Jews religion better than Islam. You still have not explained away the fact that the Pharaoh did not threaten those magicians. Still I will find your attempt to refute my claims as being so very entertaining.

Hanifan you wrote: when I have the time to analyse your claim thoroughly), what it boils down to is that you high faluting claims aren't worth the bytes of computer space they take up. Your claim for witnesses goes up in smoke and you become subject to the punishment exacted from false witnesses in Deuteronomy 19:19-21.

Starjade says: Error 21 found in the Koran is the fact that I have already proven to those Jews by religious law that I am that Prophet and I laugh at anyone who deludes themselves that they can dispute that fact. OH do please go get your Imams to help you as I do love to show my religious superiority to those who thought they had religious knowledge but discovered they were mistaken. Be sure I would not make such a statement unless I could back my mouth up all the way. Which is exactly what I have already done. That is why I can challenge you and make you all sweat. That is why Islam has bitten the dust. Many have come before you all with very powerful religious knowledge. Experts in their field of religious knowledge. They may think they knew something at that Time but their opinions do not stand proud against religious law. I already proved who I was to the Jews way back in 1995 and those matters are irrefutable.

Hanifan you say: How can you be seen as anything but a minor dajjal after this?

Starjade says: You love that word dajjal don’t you. Try using its English equivalent so other know what it is you claim I am for pointing out so many errors that exist in the Koran.
_________________
The End of Times Doomsday Prophet.
The Lord King and King of Kings Starjade.
The Crown of the Living White Sphere of Kether.

Last edited by Starjade on Thu Jan 06, 2005 6:46 pm; edited 1 time in total

Hanifan you say: THIS POST IS TO WARN READERS OF THIS THREAD ABOUT THE DAJJAL. NOT THAT I THINK STARJADE IS MASIH AL DAJJAL, BUT THAT HE MAY BE ONE OF THE MANY DAJJALS WHO WILL PRESAGE THE COMING OF THE ONE DAJJAL WHOSE FITNAH WILL BRING ON THE FINAL WAR AND THE RETURN OF MASIH 'EISA, ALAYHIS-SALAM, JUST BEFORE THE DAY OF JUDGMENT.

Starjade says: So what you are saying is that my attempts to save the lives of billions of people on this Planet from extinction must be the work of a dajjal eh. And my saving that Mexican woman and those babies from dying in that Mexican earthquake must be the acts of a dajjal.

Perhaps you forget that according to the Law of Deuteronomy Ch 19 v 15 it can be proven by religious law that I am a genuine Prophet who can be proven to have a real connection to the Living God. I suppose those little facts just escaped your mind did they. And who told you of this dajjal thingy eh. Was it Muhammad ? Let us not forget how Muhammad believed in Jesus and 11 chapters of the Koran glorify Jesus as being that Prophet that Jesus has claimed himself to be. While your idol Muhammad was not aware that Jesus has claimed himself to be that very Prophet that God promised Moses he would raise up. Which is the exact Prophet that Muhammad himself is claiming himself to be. And you then think his words are true hahahahahaha

Hanifan you say:
Rasulullah (Salallahu Alayhi Wasallam) said: Before the emergence of Dajjal there will be three spells of drought. In one year the skies will withold one third of its rains, causing the earth to withold one third of its produce. In the second year the skies will withold two thirds of its rains, causing the earth to withold two thirds of its produce. In the third year, the skies will withold all its water and there will be no crops that year. All animals, be they hooved or toothed, will die as a result.

Starjade says: You really do run off into silly fantasies don’t you. The fact that errors are found in the Koran will not sway you from believing the words of your false Prophet

Hanifan you said: I have explained Dajjal to you but I fear that you might not have understood. Maseeh Dajjal will be short, and his legs will be crooked. The hair on his head will be extremely twisted. He will have one protruding eye while his other eye will be totally flat. It will neither be deep (in its socket) nor protruding. If you still have any doubt regarding him then remember that your Lord is not one-eyed. (Because Dajjal will eventually claim to be Allah).

Starjade says: Oh well then I am a most handsome fellow, women get hard ons when I walk by so my innocence is proven yet again.

Hanifan you say:
I asked Rasulullah (Sallallahu Alayhi Wassallam) about Dajjal. He said, "How can he possibly harm you?" I said: "People are saying that he will have with him a mountain of bread (provisions) and a river of water." He said: "In the sight of Allah he is much more disgraced than that. (i.e. Allah knows full well that in reality Dajjal has nothing with him, and all that which appears to be with him is but deception).

Starjade says: I think we should demand a photos of all Muslims to sort out the good the bad and the real ugly. Out in the Astral Planes there are Demons existing that can do harm to passing Souls they are all grey in their astral colour. That is how Demons are easily identified. Of course that knowledge is all way beyond Muhammad who has not visited such realms but imagined to himself and others as to what he thinks it must all be like.

Hanifan you say: Those who hear about Dajjal should stay far from him. By Allah! A person will approach him thinking him to be a Believer, but on seeing his amazing feats he will become his follower.

Starjade says: Let me say this. Only the Living God has any followers. Those that follow men like Muhammad and Jesus are the misled ones who follow false Prophets who they idolise and see as their Gods. Too bad those false Prophets did not have a thing called common sense. And then rant of into delusional statements about the hidden monsters they have perceived within their own minds.

Hanifan you say: The greatest evil of Dajjall will be to approach anyone and ask him: "If I bring your camel back to life, will you then believe that I am your Rabb?" This person will reply, "Most certainly." Thereafter Shaytaan (from the many Shayateen who will always accompany Dajjal) will appear before this person in the form of his camel with a fat hump and fully laden udders.

Starjade says: Don’t we have things like Cars now. People don’t really ride Camels anymore except for a few out of the way tribes wondering about in Deserts. So is this statement of yours just for those few people who own Camels. What about the rest.

Hanbifan you say: Likewise Dajjal will appear before another person whose father and brother have long passed away and ask him, "If I bring your father and brother back to life will you believe that I am your Rabb?" This person will reply, "Why not?" Shaytaan will once again take on the appearance of his brother and father.

Starjade says: Sounds to me that you are quoting more errors in the Koran. So who invented these silly Demons then was it a madman. Didn’t Muhammad climb up a Mountain to kill himself because he had gone mad. Was this claim about Dajjals coming from the word of Muhammad then. Was this his statement.

Hanifan you say: Other Ahadeeth regarding Dajjal inform us that: Dajjal will emerge between Shaam and Iraq, and his emergence will become known when he is in Isfahaan at a place called Yahudea. He will stay on this Earth for a period of forty days; the length of the first day will be one year, the second day will be equal to one month, the third day will be equal to a week and the remaining days will be normal.

Starjade says: Why are you writing these ridiculas statement here of imagined Demons that do not exist anywhere except in the supersticious minds of madmen

Hanifan you say: He will lay claim to prophet hood. He will then lay claim to Divinity. He will perform unusual feats.

Starjade says: So that means you are accusing Muhammad and Jesus as being this dajjal. They made false claims to Prophetdom and they made false claims of miracles and that both considered themselves to be divine. Yet according to the religious law of Deuteronomy Ch 19 v 15 both are guilty of Blasphemy a crime of Iniquity and Sin.

Hanifan you say: He will travel the entire world. He will send down rains upon those who believe in him, which in turn will cause good crops to grow, trees to bear fruit and cattle to grow fat. He will travel at great speeds and his means of conveyance will be a gigantic mule. It is said that he will play beautiful music which will attract the music lovers.

Starjade says: What a load of bulldumping. The fanciful tales of false Prophets are something to be laughed at. And a mule of all things what a dumbass animal. Not much in the way of reality imagination in these sentences you are mentioning. I am not impressed. Petty stuff. (yawn).

Hanifan you said: The treasures hidden will spill forth at his command. He will have with him fire and water, but in reality the fire will be cold water while that what appears to be cold water will in reality be a blazing fire. Those who obey him will enter "his Jannat" while those who disobey him will enter "his Jahannam."

Starjade says: tsk tsk tsk why have you wasted our time with these delusional fantasies.

Hanifan you say: The Yahudis (Jews) of Isfahaan will be his main followers.
Apart from having mainly Yahudi followers, he will have a great number of women followers as well.

Starjade says: So this claim that the Jews will be his followers means that all the descendants of Abraham the Arabs and all are going to follow these imagined Devils eh. I think they are doing that already. Is this a good time to ask you to respond to this missiles being fired at Jinns or is that another sort of imagined devil you want to save till last. After all it is going to be a doozy of a statement to explain that away especially of angels making thunder.

Hanifan you say: He will cause drought to those who disbelieve in him, resulting in starvation and hardship for them. During those trying times the Mu'mineen will satiate their hunger through the recitation of Subhanallah and La'ilaha Ilallahu.

Starjade says: I think this Planet has far more serios thing to be worried about than Muhammads imagined Demons. Praying will not alter your fate especially as you will be praying to the false Prophet Muhammad who is proven to be presumptuous to think he could speak in Gods name. Or will they pray to Jesus another false Prophet. No wonder your prayers are never answered when you pray to Gods of mans imaginations.

Hanifan you say: Dajjal will come and finally reach the outskirts of Madina. There will be three tremors. At that time, all the disbelievers and hypocrites will flee (from Madina).

Starjade says: Well I have no interest in visiting Medina or any country that has a hot harsh environment. Or be amongst people who blow up buses and cars killing men women and children indiscriminately. Those sites may be holy places to you but then a stone was once holy to a Caveman. I have better places to go and all of my own choosing that does not involve the idolaters stone worshipping.

Hanifan you say: The letters "Kaa" "Faa" "Raa" will appear on his forehead and will be deciphered by all Mu'mineen regardless of them being literate or not.

Starjade says: And of course when all these mad things are realised not to exist then it is clear that you could be waiting forever. Meanwhile the real Doomsday prophet has turned up. And I see your blasphemy.
_________________
The End of Times Doomsday Prophet.
The Lord King and King of Kings Starjade.
The Crown of the Living White Sphere of Kether.

Hello again Hanifan. I admit that I did not know anything of the history of the Pharaohs daughter and was not aware that she could be married to a Pharaoh at that Time. The statements made in the Old Testament about the adoption of Moses are with regards to the ruling Pharaoh who clearly was Thutmoses 1 / Amenhotep 1 and he was the father of Nefure/Hatsheput who adopted Moses. The Emperor Pharaoh Ahmoses was the main ruler of the whole of Egypt at that Time. Thutmoses 1 / Amenhotep 1 was a co regent and so also called Pharaoh but he did not become emperor of the whole of Egypt until Moses was 12 years old. I have been reading up on this history and will be able to respond to you better when my investigations are done.

There are many date discrepancies as I am reading from many sources of the same account that differ in their dating. I am investigating as to whether Nefure was married to that Pharaoh at the Time she adopted Moses. All accounts say she was just a royal princess and so perhaps she married later. As I have said there are date discrepancies to these events. I am sure that those conversations of that adoption were all speaking of the ruling Pharaoh of the region at that Time which was the father of Nefure. Also there are other matters that have been distracting me such as the Pharaoh who was there at the Exodus was Thutmoses 4 / Amenhotep 3. I was intrigued to read that Tutankhamen was his son. This I find odd because as we all know the lord thy God brought plagues upon Egypt and the Lord God said that the first born in the land of Egypt shall die. From the first born of the Pharaoh even unto the first born of the maidservant that is behind the mill and the firstborn of the beasts. In an inscription on a statue of a Lion dedicated by Tutankhamen to the Temple of Soleb he calls Amenhotep 3rd to be his father. Amenhotep 3rd was also named Thutmoses 4th

Anyway it is this bloodline thing you see interfered with by the deaths of first borns that is distracting my thoughts and pending this investigation further in Time. Still I am happy with this new data and also got my explanation for the Rameses being just another Title as of the Pharaoh. Now the narration of the Old Testament speaks of the Pharaohs daughter adopting Moses. There was no mention of Nefure being married at that Time.

What I wonder is if the account written in the Koran has that same narrations of the Pharaoh father of Nefure being ruling Pharaoh of that region at that Time. Or was it referencing Nefure / Hatshepsut and her husband Pharaoh in its narrations.

Your account is not as clear as it appears and date discrepancies have appeared. The Pharaoh Thutmoses 1 / Amenhotep 1 was a co regent and so also called Pharaoh but he did not become emperor of the whole of Egypt until Moses was 12 years old. If Nafure adopted him at the age of 15 as you say then she would have been 27 years old. But I have found little data yet as to when Nafure was married. To see if she was married before or after Moses was adopted so my investigations continue.

If Nefure was Married and then the Hatshesut at the Time she adopted Moses then clearly she would also have been a Pharaohs wife but was the statements made about her husband or her father. Anyway I am still looking into it.
_________________
The End of Times Doomsday Prophet.
The Lord King and King of Kings Starjade.
The Crown of the Living White Sphere of Kether.

Last edited by Starjade on Thu Jan 13, 2005 7:35 pm; edited 2 times in total