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by Charis A Pseudo interview of the players by Cy, their missing partner: (Mage recovering from death, more from him later) Cy: So, how does it feel to be an Ironman Champion?! Charis: zzzzzz. Huh?! Oh sorry, it's 3am, the game took 40hrs and I'm exhausted. But... it feels REALLY REALLY great :-) Cy: 40 hours?? Charis: 4 for church (1 hr per lvl), 8 for cats, 12 for caves, and 16 for hell (5.5 hrs for 16 alone) Cy: I'm surprised you didn't play a variant or something, hehe. Charis: I did. Cy: You're joking!? Charis: No. You can tell by the character name i was doing something a bit odd. Sycho is a 'RAGE' (a KoP variant) that does NOT distribute points to its main stat, and for a warrior does not use +dmg wpns of any form. Cy: You could never beat Diablo like that, and it sounds like you would be hosing your partner! Charis: You're right. RAGE variants start like as IM, don't expect to do well, and after the game CAN add to their main stat the clvl they were when they died. Typically they play that IM game with another RAGE. Now, since KoP was not RAGE, the rule is that you do not distribute to strength as long as you can avoid harming party. But you must make at least clvl 10, and can then add that many to STR. At the end of CATS, I had original 30 Strength, max dex, was clvl 13, and had 20 points NOT distributed. Cy: [blank stare] An IM game, and you have 20 pts to lvl-up starting the caves?? Charis: KoP is the only one who lets me get away with that ;-) That 20 was surely earmarked for STR. I had a Bastard found, but Chain was the heaviest armor, and a Falc my best weapon, both 30 str required. So no loss not to be 30 str, except a +2 dmg difference. Because of the easy monster mix we got, this didn't matter, as I was stunning them and living comfortably. If we didn't have the blood fountain, or if we had run into Fire Clan or Night Clan, i would have distributed. Cy: How did you possibly end the game with 68 potions? Charis: I've never been past dlvl 10 stairs in IM. I figured that in a two person IM game, we would need all the resources we could muster in hell, especially if one of us died, so we had a conservation attitude from the start. That's a trademark of the Charis-Cy-Kop team ;-) (along with four hour church clears!) Now, the main reason for those pots left was the Blood Fountain, found right near the entrance on dlvl 1. And liberal use of it was made. Early on, a few trips per level. Alone on 12, probably 20 trips. With CR use on 15, likely a few dozen trips. And on 16, when i just plain refused to die and didn't care how long it took, 49 trips. Cy: So without that Blood Fountain abuse you would never have won? Charis: Bzzzt! Not true. We used that because we're heavy conservers. In all the death situations, having 100 more pots would have made no difference. 40 of those potions were yellows, due to an Eldritch. With KoP alive, and casting six heal others per blue pot, we would have used about 8-12 thru dlvl 11. With no blood fountain, KoP would have known his mana was for healing only, and would never have died. I had a heal spell too, castable with Wiz Wrap, so those yellows would net me an extra non-combat heal. Also, i used about three dozen unnecessary blood fountain trips on 15 and 16 just to (cough) speed things up! I had other tricks up my sleeve that would have saved me dozens more, but I save those secrets for another day! In my mind, the BF helped us play the slow cautious game we like, and gave me time to think on those long walks back down, but without it we would have done just as well, likely with the mage surviving ;-) Cy: Well then you were lucky dogs for finding Schaefer's Hammer and the Constricting Ring, don't you think? Wizard's Wrap and Fleshstinger too! Charis: Bah!! In a full dungeon clear you DO expect to see some good drops, and the unique items are known right away. My final weapon was a PLAIN bastard sword found around clvl 6, around the same time the Ring of Skill found. No hat, just an AC 12 crown, and almost not a second ring. What was nice about Schaefer's was that I saw rogs out the wazoo, fire drakes and magistrates. If we saw BK's on 13 it was game over. The CR was nice because of all the magic attacks - a lot of spit, infernos, blood stars, and fireballs. With a rogue, or a living mage with real spells, it wouldn't have been so useful. Yes, the +50 hp was nice, but i lived in fear i would take it off with 49 hp left. And with the CR i was constantly changing gear. In a full game clear, i've seen four-five uniques as very typical. We got one wpn, one bow, one armor, one ring. For rings, CR was better than ROE, but we had to live to 12 before CR was useful. Bow? Fleshstinger is good, but low min dmg, and lack of rogue hurt. It's average, Windy or Eagle far better. Armor? Wiz Wrap useful, but average, Naj and DSC better. None of the great hats were dropped. Wpn? CC, Shadowhawk, DF, Doomy, GF better, while Gnarled Root, Bonesaw, Exec Blade, Talon as good, and several others useful depending on the monster mix. As far as non-unique drops? We were **way** below average - mage was out of the game with lame books and staffs. No +to hit or +dmg weapons beyond 'fine', no magic hats, only magic armor worth iding until 15 and 16 (even then no suffix), and the only ID'd shield was plain tiger. The Gold/Rad amu was good on some levels, but for fear of being a lighthouse, its use was limited. I'm dying to know what else we found but didn't ID, but am waiting for the rules on the NM continuation before I break out the mules and ID them. Cy: Tell me about the deaths. Charis: I feel bad about all of them. Goldblight was trapped, dying was pitiful... (and we forgot the SC spell available). As for the mage, I don't blame him, we together made two mistakes: 1) a character in general, a mage, and in particular a mage with no MS, must have an escape route to avoid real danger. In both cases, we did not. 2) play the role you get dealt, consistent with your skills, not the one that is 'typical'. With the utterly useless spells, and lack of staffs, the mage was totally underpowered. We adjusted some, but not enough. We recognized that our hopes lie in the Warrior unless some extremely lucky book finds later. We half played this way, but still tried to level him up for the sake of leveling him up. This was not right. If he did find the right spells, he would be able to catch up in a heartbeat, no matter how far behind. And if he did not, there was no point in gaining exp (in the end his exp gained on 11 and 13 cost warr one level) With Heal Other and Stone Curse as his only spells, and with a Town portal staff, his role should have been to move the escape portal, stone curse the bosses, and on PURE melee lvls, with enough running space, stand behind and Heal other if warr got swarmed. In practice, this would have led to death by boredom, and i could not 'impose' this strategy on a partner. On the first death, a Nova trap woke up a few and scurried us into unexplored area - not much mind you, but enough. I had a Death Wing at a lava choke point, with three stuck behind him, and two flayed ones coming in from my left, mage on my right. He yelled "Run!" and i likely should have. But I knew i was fine and could clear that group with at most one pot, and i didn't want to let the DW sneak in a hit on him. He ran right, but it was not a way back, rather a group of one DW and two Flayed ones. He came back to me, JUST as the two flayed ones cut off the escape to the left. So he was stuck next to me with 2 monsters on him, CB'ing for his life, but it was to no avail. I was then trapped, but not hopeless. It took about 4 potions to clear that mess. (was wielding Schaeffer's swapped in Gold/Rad quickly) On the second mage death, I had woke up a good seven Guardians, and ran to escape portal. I suggested it a good chance for him to tag with charged bolt. Alas, if he tagged and we both bolted, the 'tag' would be lost (or so we thought), which kept him down longer than safe. He retreated to a wall, but some funky steps by the Guardians soon penned him him. They literally pounded dmg faster than he could drink, and he died, for the last time. Cy: Any near-death experiences that would have lost the game? Charis: Sure, several. Once on 12 I missed the Slayer too often, and he swung a few times instead of breath. After the inferno cleared and he lay dead, i saw i had two hp. (eep!) dlvl 14 was so toast i couldn't believe it. dlvl 15 at the start was tricky, with magistrates firing and no running room. After laz died, i finally allowed myself the luxury of drinking freely, so no real near death then. On 16 likewise I was (for me) utterly careful, although advo's stung pretty bad, even with max resists. Cy: How did you handle the tougher creatures? Charis: There were many. The Hammer and Constricting Ring were key. - Butcher was of course stair trapped. Took a while, but safe. - Mage took out Leo with Holy Bolt, one red for me, two blue. - Maws on 12? Very slowly! Sword doing 50% dmg meant stunlock, and the Hammer, with lightning dmg and +50hp for me, was good too. - Death Wings on 11? Gold Amu to hit was nice, might leather to stun. - Hell Spawn? Put on Constricting ring, corner them, kill 'em. - Magistrates? If mixed foes, same as spawn, other wise wield Schaefer for max Res L, and their few hp meant death soon. - Laz and company? Lured all witches individually with bow, luring back far away to killing zone, swap in CRing, corner, kill. For others, put on CR (res F) and Hammer (for hp), then did a very quick and very erratic run in to make an advo show himself. The switch to bow and pop him individually. Finally with Laz left, cornered with Hammer and CR. - Blood Knights? Chose gear to stun and block, even though i didn't hit all the time. Used 'trees' in hell to limit exposure to two BK's, and found them one on one most of the time. Key was NOT fighting a BK in front of an advocate, I ALWAYS lured them away. - Advocates? Get resist as high as I could, lure away BK's first, then return when only Advos in the area. Do a happy dance, avoiding hits, until ONE is isolated. Then get into position, switch to bow, and kill. Heal if below 1/3 hp, rinse, repeat. - Diablo? You either AC around 140, Dex around 110, or dmg 33+ After that, good tohit and enhanced hit points are excellent. Once belt got close to empty, went open inventory to be able to drink. Cy: How could you have four ID left before the battle with Diablo?? Charis: The way I use ID's is pretty strictly on a as-needed-cuz-we're-hurting basis. I won't say this is optimal, or good for anyone, but it works for me. But specifically, the math showed I would be borderline clvl 24 or 25 for that final battle. At 25, I do 33+ dmg withOUT the Stars amu, and can use the Gold +30, for an assured victory. At 24, I need a plus str item, OR lots of AC, OR lots of dex to win. So SINCE i was really in no danger on clvl 13, 14, or 15 (sounds odd, but true) I chose to save the ID's. An ID earlier could likely have saved me HOURS, but that wasn't my goal :-) And I DID id the shield from laz right away, with it's good ac 17 base and lacking any current pluses on shield. Tiger+50. Actually, I was hoping too for a glimmering cauldron and save ID's for 16. Odd point- cauldron on end of 15 was 'reveal map'. Here were the ID choices at the end: - Three sets of magic Gothic Plate (one 15 rack, two BKs) - one ring from Succubus on 13 - two amu from Spawn on 15 - one tower shield from RV - hammer from BJ - club from Gorash - Falchion and Blade from BK's on 16 What was ruled out? Club and Blade would have needed to be BOTH +to hit and +dmg to be useful vs Diablo. Shield of base ac 12 would have to be better than tiger 50. With a ring slot open for Diablo, the ring, not the highest ilvl item available, was now a no brainer. Tiger +48. Three left. One of the Plate for sure. Superstition- i get junk from Armor racks, so i chose the higher AC plate (55) from BK's. A decent choice, Awesome Gothic Plate (AC 135), total AC now 179 up from 112. I was actually hoping for Giants armor, but this was good too. Two left. Well, hoping for a better plate was not a good bet. Falchion and Amu was the suggestion made by KoP, and that sounded fine to me. Falchion of Precision +19, and an Amu of Precision +19. Wow, great blocking! But dmg was 28-33. I chose to stun and damage, not play defense. In retrospect, seeing just how much Diablo hit me, I think I would go with Falc19+Prec19(or Gold30) instead of Bast+Stars9. If the Leather of Might was not in the dead mage's inventory, I would have worn it (instead of Awesome Plate!!) for the extra +3 dmg, and swapped in the Gold/Rad. He would not be pounding on me because he would be in virtual stunlock. Cy: In playing with you I've noticed your warrior does best, your mage not bad, and rogue needs work. Why do you like the Warr? Charis: [cough] Thanks. I actually like all three, but like Charles Warren really like melee best. My best rogues are S/S Amazons, and my top two mages are Muscle Mage and Agile Mage. So my IM Mages are super in church, and use no blues. Likewise, if my IM rogue is asked to shield, she's happy. But i do NOT (yet) have the bow and magic experience for the critical times when all-hell-breaks-loose. On the other hand, after dozens of IM games where we die in Cats, I've had the thought that if you get me a strong warrior to hell, we're going to win. I hope that doesn't sound cocky, but... a limited-resource-warrior-in-hell? Welcome to my world :-) My BAR has done quests to slay all witches in hell naked, with fists, to defeat D solo with no return to town, and finally, a grueling full dungeon clear with no town. Sparta`BAR has also gotten a solo 3@30 using nothing but a minimal strange blade (+102%) (with town... in fact, lots and lots of town). Also, i'm quite used to low AC warrior tactics. Besides, I figure if anyone is going to read my IM Warrior Guide, i should get one past cats?! Cy: How does playing with consistent partners help? Charis: You really do get to anticipate well what they're going to do, and you end up with folks compatible with your style. KoP in particular, and Cy on a good day, are very patient and have a similar slow, strategic emphasis. I think play with 'main' classes on a regular team is best way to win, but a great way to improve is to play with other good players with different styles to learn from them. In that regard, much thanks to Gumby, Kshira and Friar, for their tips and encouragement. Cy: What next for you, for IronMan and Diablo? Charis: First, a few days break, I'm exhausted. Before too long the NM IM continuation game should be fun. I also have 28 golden characters and hope to finish my 30@3@30 done by the new year. For IM, I would love to see a team of four win, with two Warr, and most of all, I want to see C-C-K trio get a victory. I predict that Cy the rogue saves our butts multiple times, and/but ends up getting carried to 16 on a stretcher :-) Cy: Woo!!! :-) 
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