Stephanie Cass decides to be cute ...
Up until very recently, you would have been clicking directly into the
copy of this very pleasant thread in the House of Netjer archives, but
that just became impossible. The House management, probably Cass, just
blocked access to this thread, which has probably been deleted.
This morning (May 24, 2002), I noticed that Steph had decided to delete
this discussion. No doubt, she will try to deny this, and claim that it
had simply "expired", but the facts rule this out. 360 days, the
expiration time for a post on the Netjer board, have not passed. She
has, to be sure, made a good attempt to create the illusion that the
system had acted on its own, by deleting (1) all of my posts from
before the time of this thread. However, she neglected to delete
a number of other posts from another discussion on the same board,
that had been made before the posts that just disappeared. A machine would
not have been so discriminating as to make such a mistake, because a
machine wouldn't know how. But a human would. That which is done by
hand, is done by choice, and how very interesting that Cass would
choose to delete these posts early, just days after this page had been
mentioned on Usenet, to the general public.
What an ingeniously corrupt abuse of her discretion as the board
monitor! Now, in order to defend myself against the charge that I
had been archiving John's posts as part of a scheme to revive
an old flamewar, I must now archive posts on my own site, because
Cass persists in destroying evidence elsewhere. Without copies of the
posts on this thread to show the reader, I am put at a great
disadvantage, should the House try to put a deceptive spin on this
discussion, as Cass already has, with Schaefer and the 'Nisut' herself
joining in on the attempt, as you will soon see. On reading the copy
of the thread which I had saved in my own personal records, below, the
reader can see that one could not read these posts, and honestly see
them in the light that the House would like to cast them in. There is
nothing on this thread that anybody could conceivably be embarassed by,
and it never even became an argument, much less a "flamewar".
So, I'd better not hear any whining about how I "archived posts". The
demand that I not, for reasons already cited, is not legitimate, and
by attempting to corrupt the historical record for her own political
benefit, Cass has left this complaint twice removed from reality, with
her own corrupt motives having already been made clear by her own
words. (Note the commentary about "discrediting one's opponents", in
this letter). As for complaints about copyright
violations, click here.
As much as the House likes to pretend otherwise, intellectual
property law can not be used as a club to beat one's critics into
silence with, in either the United States or the United Kingdom.
But how very telling that they try to do just that.
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John
( )
05/24/01 03:43 PM
[INLINE] Post deleted by KheruSekhmetIsep(Inserted note : As I recall, Mr. Hagins alluded to the "All Things Sekhmet" site, deleting this post around the time he left the House in a huff. There was nothing terribly controversial about this post).
Ma'at
(Shemsu)
05/24/01 03:54 PM
[INLINE]
[INLINE] Re: Netjeru And Geometry [re: KheruSekhmetIsep]
OoOooo you found that... NOT one of my favorite pages... grrr... I can't speak for anyone else, but years ago, before I discovered Sekhmet was my Mother, I had inklings that I ignored because when I went looking for info on Her, that was what I found.
I'm not saying my way is the only one, but that stuff just didn't seem to jive for me at ALL. Especially the picture (which I'm not certan is still there), where she had cut Sekhmet's head up into all these geometric parts... It felt like you might feel seeing a cat with twine wrapped around its head to me. *shudders*
Ma'at
"Behold, She goes about walking and standing."
John
( )
05/24/01 03:59 PM
[INLINE] Re: Netjeru And Geometry [re: Ma'at]
Em Hotep Sister Ma'at <henu>
O.M.N.! (Oh My Netjer), you're telling me this twisted individual cut up an IMAGE of SEKHMET?!?! Sheesh...now that is kinda SICK, even if it's just some geometric type of thing...I didn't see that one but for some reason deforming images of the Netjeru doesn't strike me as something they would enjoy.
Ankh Udja Seneb
John
Ma'at
(Shemsu)
05/24/01 04:05 PM
[INLINE]
[INLINE] Re: Netjeru And Geometry [re: John]
Yeah, I sent you the link in private.
Ma'at
"Behold, She goes about walking and standing."
Antistoicus
( )
05/25/01 11:07 AM
[INLINE] Re: Netjeru And Geometry [re: John]
Well, at least she got the length of the diagonal of a cube right. (I think. Her presentation was a little garbled).
I had hoped that this would be something else. In Japan, there had been a cultic practice of bringing in geometric proofs as offerings to the spirits. (Unfortunately, I didn't mark down the article's date and page number, and can't find it. It was interesting, though). I was wondering if there was a more westerly version of that practice. Instead, what I see here is a quasi-pythagorean worship of numbers, and the impending threat of mathematical crankery.
Very disappointing. What do you think, though, about the Japanese custom I referred to, above. I assume that it is not a traditional Kemetic practice, but do you suppose any of the names (Thoth?) would welcome such an offering? (Apparently, the proofs would then be posted on the walls of the Shrine prominently, where all could read them. It is a little different from the usual burning of incense, or other sacrificial offering).
John ( )
05/25/01 11:15 AM
[INLINE] Re: Netjeru And Geometry [re: Antistoicus]
Em Hotep!
I do believe that Tehuti/Djehuti would welcome some type of offering of mathematical genius, or even some simple geometry. Or even perhaps Ptah the grand Architect...
Both deal in numbers.
Senebty!
John
Antistoicus
( )
05/25/01 11:23 AM
[INLINE] Re: Netjeru And Geometry [re: KheruSekhmetIsep]
Cutting up Sekhmet? Hmmm. I must admit that I am at something of a disadvantage in responding to John's post, because having but a 2400 baud modem, I can't see pictures.
Is it really that bad, though? (Not entirely a rhetorical question, I really can't see the image). Isn't all art, in some way or another a deformation of the full image of that which it portrays? For example, an impressionist doesn't give us a crystal clear image of the scene before him, but merely shows some of the sparkles that have caught his eye. The original has been depleted of some of its detail - surely a sort of deformation. Could this lady's work be viewed as merely following a different artistic convention, albeit not a very interesting or pleasing one from your own point of view? (And probably not mine either, judging from the text I read). The image in a classical mosaic is certainly cut up, but no disrespect toward the subject was ever intended by this.
Khen
(Shemsu)
05/25/01 11:36 AM
[INLINE] Re: Netjeru And Geometry [re: Antistoicus]
Em hotep <henu>
Antistoicus you pose an interesting question.
I would be curious to see the image myself. Unless it is linked somewhere hidden, I don't see it either, and I have a faster modem. I do have one speculation, though without seeing the image and any explanation that may accompany it I may be wrong. But in the book Myth and Symbol in Ancient Egypt by R.T. Rundle Clark, on page 220, the Eye of Horus is "broken down" into fractional parts. I have also seen a sketch of the Eye, drawn divided into these fractional parts.
So, I am wondering, maybe the image of Sekhmet was divided similarly, in this "mathematical" (and note, I make no judgment one way or other on the validity or lack thereof of this mathematical theory.) If that is the case, then it would seem to make some sense I guess to cut up the image so to speak.
On the other hand, the ancient Egyptians indicated "destruction" of creatures, individuals, etc, by "mutilation" of the image of said creature, individual etc. So some folks might take that cutting up as mutilation.
I think intent is important here, so if this person was trying to prove some thesis, there is no intent to mutilate.
If I can view the image, Antistoicus, I will let you know.
Khen
Imyt-Ra NE
Jeremiah
(Shemsu)
05/25/01 02:22 PM
[INLINE]
[INLINE] Re: Netjeru And Geometry [re: Antistoicus]
Em hotep,
I think Djehuty would love that kind of offering. Djehuty was an important part of ceremonies and rituals used in ploting new buildings and such. I do think though that He would like it more if it were a proof you figured out yourself and not just copied out of a book.
Personally my Geometry days are far far behind me.
Jeremiah
Antistoicus
( )
05/25/01 03:10 PM
[INLINE] Re: Netjeru And Geometry [re: Khen]
Khen,
- What does "Em hotep" mean? It seems to be a customary greeting here, but I can not use it until I understand it, of course.
- When you say "divided", do you mean literally appearing on the page as if it had been cut into pieces? If so, then I quite understand the distress people were feeling about this. Yes, I know about the significance of the destruction of images. I just tended to assume that we were speaking of some sort of stylized image of deity, or maybe an image with a geometric overlay. I have to take a look at that image.
I did take a look at that page, though, and speaking as somebody who has studied Mathematics at the PhD level, I was not impressed with the Mathematics. It seemed to me to be a cover to bluff people into not examining the theology, which they might otherwise have been underwhelmed by. (What does it mean to say that a particular number is a deity ? A number, being a fixed and immutable concept, is incapable of reaction to anything within or without itself, and is thus incapable of consciousness. I saw no explanation of the meaning of this bewildering claim. This leads me to suspect that it lacks one).
Khen
(Shemsu)
05/25/01 04:01 PM
[INLINE] Re: Netjeru And Geometry [re: Antistoicus]
Em hotep, means, in peace. It is the Kemetic equivalent of "hello"And yes, I mean the drawing was actually "cut up" in sections. It woudl be as if I took my facial photo and divided it into sections, an eye here, nose there, etc.
Math is not and never was my strong suit, so I will bow to you and those more knowledgeable in the subject. I think personally that it can make a fascinating intellectual exercise but, as you say, connecting it quite that closely with divinity--not sure about that.
Khen
Imyt-Ra NE
Antistoicus
( )
05/25/01 05:52 PM
[INLINE] Re: Netjeru And Geometry [re: Jeremiah]
Em hotep, Jeremiah,
My understanding was that the proofs posted in the Shrines were original work. The offering lies in the work done on them. Besides which, self-respect would not allow me to copy somebody else's proof. Writing proofs is part of my profession. This would be a matter of professional pride in my case. In somebody else's, I'd say that they're really missing out on the fun.
Antistoicus
( )
05/25/01 06:03 PM
[INLINE] Re: Netjeru And Geometry [re: Khen]
I must be spacing out a little today. I'm here at Screenz (it's a cybercafe here in Chicago), and I can't find the drawing in question. What I have found are a variety of geometric drawings. I do see one that looks somewhat like a stylized cat's eye, in one piece but divided into quadrants by lines overlaying it. I assume that isn't what is meant, though I have heard the expression "eye of Ra".
Maybe she took it down? Where was it located? (Url, page location, etc). Agreed, though, an image where one's diety has been symbolically dismembered is pretty disturbing.
Jeremiah
(Shemsu)
05/25/01 09:34 PM
[INLINE]
[INLINE] Re: Netjeru And Geometry [re: Antistoicus]
You like that stuff?! YIKES!! LOL [INLINE] Personally I love learning languages and offer those books to Him rather than math stuff. However, I'm glad that those proofs offered are original, thank you for mentioning those!
Jeremiah
Antistoicus
( )
05/28/01 01:25 PM
[INLINE] Re: Netjeru And Geometry [re: Jeremiah]
You're quite welcome. I've just moved, so my library is still in disarray, so it may be a while before I am able to find that article again. When I do, though, I'll be sure to list the appropriate references for anybody interested in the subject. (I first saw this mentioned in a Scientific American article).
Aside from the mention of cultic practices, it was interesting because the local tradition had evolved quite independently of Western Mathematics, and the proofs were unlike anything I had seen before. At least, that was the impression I got in the brief time that I saw the article, before everything got boxed up.
Languages, huh? I don't know if I'd ever be up to that much memorization. What is it, 500 (or more) words/night?
Antistoicus
(Guest)
02/24/02 12:27 PM
[INLINE] Found it ! [re: Antistoicus]
The article that I was referring to, appears in the May 1998 issue of Scientific American under the title "Japanese Temple Geometry".
Antistoicus
(Guest)
02/24/02 01:13 PM
[INLINE] Here's the url [re: Antistoicus]
This article mentioned appears on the Scientific American homepage at http://www.sciam.com/1998/0598issue/0598rothman.html (2) Enjoy!
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Subject Posted by Posted on
* Post deleted by KheruSekhmetIsep .. KheruSekhmetIsep 05/24/01 03:43 PM
. * Re: Netjeru And Geometry .. Antistoicus 05/25/01 11:07 AM
. * Found it ! .. Antistoicus 02/24/02 12:27 PM
. . Here's the url .. Antistoicus 02/24/02 01:13 PM
. * Re: Netjeru And Geometry .. Jeremiah 05/25/01 02:22 PM
. * Re: Netjeru And Geometry .. Antistoicus 05/25/01 05:52 PM
. * Re: Netjeru And Geometry .. Jeremiah 05/25/01 09:34 PM
. * Re: Netjeru And Geometry .. Antistoicus 05/28/01 01:25 PM
. * Re: Netjeru And Geometry .. John 05/25/01 11:15 AM
. * Re: Netjeru And Geometry .. Ma'at 05/24/01 03:54 PM
. * Re: Netjeru And Geometry .. KheruSekhmetIsep 05/24/01 03:59 PM
. * Re: Netjeru And Geometry .. Antistoicus 05/25/01 11:23 AM
. * Re: Netjeru And Geometry .. Khen 05/25/01 11:36 AM
. * Re: Netjeru And Geometry .. Antistoicus 05/25/01 03:10 PM
. * Re: Netjeru And Geometry .. Khen 05/25/01 04:01 PM
. * Re: Netjeru And Geometry .. Antistoicus 05/25/01 06:03 PM
. * Re: Netjeru And Geometry .. Ma'at 05/24/01 04:05 PM
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