F16HP_real_life

Report from Chuck H. from www.catsailor.com general forum

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The T4.9 (Taipan 4.9 with 17.5 sq.mtr. spi, F16 HP compliant) doesn't necessarily ride high over the waves, but it will punch through them pretty nicely. And if you are talking a 6 ft wave ( trough to peak) yeah having 4 ft less length is probably going to hurt you, just as I wouldn't want to be sailing an I20 in 15-20 mph single handed. It just depends on want your going to be doing.

I did get to do some drag racing yesterday in the Ocean against a Fox, I20, and US I18 (Non F18). Now as usual I left the beach a little late for the downwind run which was in about 10 mph and 2-3 ft waves. After about an hour and a half of running the chute, the boats that were on the horizon when we left were still on the horizon, it was hard to tell how much our position had changed, but we didn't get blown away or anything. Heading back the wind picked up to about 15 mph and everyone got off the beach relatively together and we raced upwind for about 2+ hours in 3 foot chop. When we hit the beach, we were about 15 minutes behind the 20 footers and just ahead of the I18 (with 320 lbs of crew) The boat is fast and drives through the surf pretty well. The T4.9 is the most versatile that I have ever seen. From single handing to double trapping to flying a chute, she scoots! So given the above criteria, you would be missing out if you didn't consider it.

Related comment :

Chuck and his crew have attended more events with his F16 HP compliant boat and they often sail in the front of the pack and in front of bigger boats like the Nacra 5.5 sloop. Chuck uses the smaller 17.5 sq.mtr. genaker (Spi) instead of a Texel allowed 21 sq.mtr. for he thinks the smaller handles better. F16HP uses this 17,5 sq. mtr. spi in the equal to F18 boats setup. The F16HP itself will allow bigger spis after the start up fase.

Report from Nick Dewhirst taken from http://www.catamaran.co.uk webpage

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Pierce leads UKCRA series after 3 Piers Race

By Nick Dewhirst

Marconi's Three Piers race taxed every skill in the sailing book on Sunday 15th July. The Met promised force 1 to 3 blowing from the SW or NW, so competitors with a choice of configurations chose the larger rigs and flew kites wherever possible for the 60-kilometre race from Osea Pier in the Blackwater River to Walton Pier and back.

Sailing a Stealth R, John Pierce, crewed by Sue Davies made all the right bets to take his second win in the four race series. This race is now a well-established event run to raise money for the Ciaran Trust.

At the start, two Thames barges flying full canvas caused an unusual difficulty as the 70+ entrants started downwind with kites flying in force 2 off Osea Pier by the Marconi Sailing Club. While the bulk of the fleet squeezed into a bottleneck to windward, and one who dared to go between them was caught on the anchor chains, Will Sunnucks powered off to an early lead alone well downwind.

Down the Blackwater, the fleet bore down the middle to exploit the ebbing tide, gybing with the variable puffs and trying to avoid holes that stopped first one part of the fleet then another as they approached Bradwell. Andy Webb played this game best in his Hurricane Sport.

To break the boredom of a long downwind leg, this year the organisers put a couple of right hand bends in between Bradwell and Colne Point, that forced competitors to lower their kites and beat instead.

At Colne Point the slow fleet sailing the Short Course turned round. Texel veteran Klass Pool, was the clear leader sailing a new Hobie FX single-hander with spinnaker to perfection. However on the return journey back up the Swale, the Dart 15s made up good ground. Paul Storer sailing in Sprint mode putting in a good result and local lass, Jenny Ball, using her knowledge of the river to best advantage, to collect the most silverware.

For the full course the rest of the fleet experienced a spectacular leg along the coast bearing increasingly NE. This started as a drifting run but ended as a high-speed close reach. The middle of the fleet had mainly lowered their kites on the wrong side, and so were unable to re-hoist. However a couple of daring Whitstable sailors took out a dozen places or more. Asymetric ace, Simon Reynolds did it maxed-out with kite twin trapezing off the rear beam, while Nick Dewhirst and Rob Guy sailed a razor-thin line between rival hazards just 50 yards offshore in less tide - point too high and capsize with kite or bear off and hit a groyne.

Unsurprisingly the biggest cats were the first to Walton, Rob White's original wide-beam Storm, being the first, follower by regular Dutch visitor, John de Vries and Will Sunnucks in Tornado Sports. However the wind steadily died as the fleet approached Bradwell, where the twin power plants again created their notorious black hole, into which once again the fleet sailed this year.

Trying to avoid this peril, John de Vries sailed North into the Colne River, where he suffered an alternative penatly - the ignominy of being dragged upstream by the gathering tide despite his big rig. Local knowledge paid off for Brightlingsea's Rob White who went on to take line honours in an unusually long six-hour race.

Former Hurricane class chairman, Ashley Machin, was unluckiest man of the day, as he led his flock into the Bradwell hole, where he was stuck for an hour and a half. Meanwhile his followers escaped one by one, two-sailed Rob Lawes from Whitstable being one of the later to arrive but the first to escape.

As the fleet tacked together back up the middle of the Blackwater with the growing tide it was near to impossible for the 20 foot Hurricane's and F 20 to shake off the shorter F 18 class. The mere 16 foot Spitfires performed spectacularly to take three of the top seven slots on handicap, while Alan Grace managed 11th place despite his handicaps.

However when the results were counted on corrected time the overall winner was John Pierce, 0.8% ahead of Marconi's Tim Wallace in a standard Hurricane and 2.6% ahead of Dutch F 18 ace, Rico Capelle. Line Honours, Rob White was ultimately fourth, 3.9% behind. The final deciding event of the inaugural UKCRA series takes place at Whitstable on Saturday 22nd September, with John Pierce in the lead after three events.

For further information contact Nick Dewhirst [email protected]

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Related comments :

The Stealth R sailed by John Pierce violates the F16HP rule only with it's jib size, but can be considered a good benchmark for it is also heavier that the minimum F16 HP weight. It flies a F16HP sized spinnaker (called genaker under F16 HP). John Pierce is a very capable ex-tornado sailor. Will Sunnocks who entered with a International Tornado (with spi) is of the same class as are the F18's crews. The Stealth R is rated 1 % slower than the F18's and 7 % slower than the iF20's. John beat all F18's on elapsed time as well as on corrected time the percentage difference of 2,6 % with the fastest F18 shows this. The standard of hurricane 5,9 sailing in UK can be regarded as high and also taken as a good indication of the Stealth speed. Several H5.9 with big rigs or genakers were present. Outcome on elapsed time :

1- Storm Big rig           6 : 12 : 12
2- Int. Tornado (+spi) 6 : 38 : 42
3- Inter 20                  6 : 44 : 32
4- F20                        6 : 45 : 28
5- Hurricane 5.9          6 : 45 : 30
6- Stealth R                 6 : 46 : 06
7- Mystere F18            6 : 52 : 46
8- Hurricane 5.9 spec   6 : 54 : 41
9- the rest   ....

A total of 5 F20' s and 4 F18's participated with bigger numbers of Hurricanes 5.9 , nacra 6.0 etc.

The Swell catamaran Spitfires of which the fastest had an elapsed time of 7 : 13 : 19 are grandfathered into the F16 HP class

Report from Rick W. from www.catsailor.com general forum

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By the way, I have had a lot of fun with the very lightweight Taipan 4.9 as a unirig and with rollerfurling Hooter -- in around the buoys races I have been right behind the A-Class boats (good sailors, by the way), at the weather mark, and then smoke them off the wind.
Downwind in a recent distance race (long 10-mile downwind first leg) I was right behind the Inter 20s and Nacras w/spin at the first mark (about 10 miles), and was ahead of all the 20' sloop boats (H20, Tornado, etc), and lost most of them on the upwind leg, finishing right with the H20s. On the upwind I did have some problems that kept me from doing better. There was a lot of kelp and I had to literally stop all the time to raise boards, rudders and then continue (problem with single-handing). And I am not as agile as I was now that I am 65 and overweight. I was really getting exhausted going in and out of the trapeze a zillion times. It was grim!
The Hooter is really fast off the wind, escpecially for lighter boats that do not require big shoulders for power. And it furls within two boat lengths.

Just food for thought
Rick

Rick White
Catamaran Sailor Magazine

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Related comment :

Rick is head of the Rick's resort in florida where he is known to give master classes that boost individual sailing performances. Is is also owner of teh Catsailor.com webpage which harbours the most active forum in the sailing community as proven by the it's highest placing on the hits ranking list. Rick uses a Hooter style head sail (see picture above this paragraph) which is slightly different from a Genaker. The headsail looks alot like a very big jib made of nylon and is sometimes called a "reacher" and is typically considerable smaller than a genaker but it performs better on a reach while some say that a genaker performs better downwind. This hooter is not F16HP compliant due to European racing regulations

Report from Mark S. from www.catsailor.com general forum

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OK

I will try not to offend all of my friends on other boats here. I sailed the Bim F16, which in the US has a 30 foot carbon stick (A Class stick) and a Bim mainsail. The boat is equipped with a short carbon pole with a standard snuffer head. Bob Curry designed the chute. (I don't know the size ) The boat has the downhauls led to the trap wire or shrouds.. (your choice) and the mast under rotation is led to the shrouds .. A cleat on the boom induces positive rotation. The boom was bent by the girl friends when one of them thought she could climb back over the top hull in a cap size. The boards and rudders are incredible light. The boards are not fitted with a stop and I would need to shim the boards so that they do not float up or fall through the centerboard casing. The rudder system is unusual and I did not get used to raising the boards coming into the beach. I would just reach back and push down on the rudder head to release the board and have it float up and then it was easy to cock the rudder upwards.

I personally liked the taipan positive lock on the tiller arms.

I sailed Jim Boyer's Taipan as a Uni rig and with the snuffer /chute (we just had to put it on the Taipan) I sailed this boat for about 40 minutes total.

The Bim has much more rocker then the Taipan and I think it tacks a little quicker.

The Bim because of the rocker will hobby horse when the breeze lightens up. There is no way to stop this action. I think the very tall rig (for a 16 foot boat contributes to the hobby horsing)

The Bim has a flatter underwater profile and the hulls resonate when you slap the waves going up wind. (This takes some getting used to.. The boat feels solid... the hulls are not flexing. The Taipan seems like a more solid platform.

I don't think the Bim mast would hold another crew member on a trapeze. All in all: I thought the Taipan would be a more durable and flexible boat. You could sail both boats as Uni's.. The Taipan could sail as a sloop rigged boat. The snuffer with chute and main was very nice on the taipan . The boat seemed to track well in this configuration. Jim and Lisa sailed the boat with Main Jib and chute. I know the deck was busy (Lisa was not thrilled with all the extra line) but I could easily do a distance race in this configuration.

Racing
I missed racing the first day. I was sailing with the fleet though in light air as a unirig only. Wind was 4 to 6 knots 1 to 2 foot swells. My impression was that the boat was equal to the 5.5 and I17's. The 18 square was going deeper then I could though.

Saturday the wind's built from 7 to about 12 knots. in the morning. My starts were OK. I found that the boat had similar or slightly better speed upwind then did the 5.5's and I 17 R's. Downwind... I had a huge learning curve to climb. I was rolled several times by I 17's who could keep the boat hooked up. I don't want to talk about mark roundings other then to say.. thank god I got in and out of them. The single handed fleet in Michigan is very smooth. As the breeze built, I think the A cat rig was much faster up wind. I could climb higher and maintain speed. In the windiest race, the one I DSQ'd I was first to A mark (despite having to bear off around a capsized H16) I footed off through the lee of a 5.5 U and an I17R and then was able to climb back up to them.

Down wind... I started to hold my own. I did not pass anyone but at least I stopped getting rolled by the I17 R's. I was not able to fly a hull on the wire with the Bim chute. I don't know if that is fast or not.

I think the boat is slightly faster up wind then the uni's and I17's and probably the same speed down wind as the I17's. I was usually chasing one I 17 around the course. At least in one race the 5.5 uni's were first to finish. In light air... with big lumpy seas, I had a hard time making the boat go. I felt that I need more power out of the main ( or less weight to move around) I also went the wrong way and made several other major errors in that race.

The last race was a blast. The winds were 18 with gusts to 20 and 4 to 6 foot rollers. Having gotten to A mark first. I debated the sanity of pulling the chute. Eventually the No Guts no Glory credo won out. and I pulled the chute. I had some problems and wound up snuffing and rehoisting the sail. Looking backwards, I could not see ANY of the I17's launching theirs.... (I later found out that Les had dumped his boat within 30 seconds... the rest of the fleet took this lesson to heart... Jack Young launched his but he sailed VERY DEEP)

The boat was a blast surfing down waves but this required constant attention. I jibed with no problem and was sailing well again... but I did not have anyone to follow. So.... Looking for C mark is not fun when you have to pay attention to the waves. I stuffed that poor boat into the back of a wave and the race was over.... I could have been a contender though!!! Probably was a good thing that I dumped the boat. I had forgotten to get the course. (That is the crew's job usually)

I haven't looked at the corrected times yet. I am not convinced that the F16 configuration will be as fast as a Hobie 20 / F18/ Tiger. I read Woouter's calculations and models. I think that wind speed and wave action will be a huge factor in determining the speed of the boats. I also think that crew weights will be a huge factor in determing boat speed. I suggest the F16 group build in a period of boat for boat testing with the F18's...

In the US... Since we don't have either an F16 or F18 class now. My hunch is that couples would be better served with a light weight F16 boat rather then a F18. (Why carry around all that weight). On the other hand.... the 18 footers could well have a larger weight carrying range. I would certainly like to know more about this.

Well these are just my current thoughts, subject to change and based on a short sail on the Taipan.

I highly recomend the Bim and the Taipan to anyone looking for a high performance lightweight fun boat.

Personally, at 200 lbs. I would love a Taipan with a snuffer sailing one up.!

Take care.

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Related comment :

Mark sailed against Kirt Simmons on the Taipan 4.9 w/o genaker at Catfight 2 in August 2001.

About rocking of the platform in light air and substantial waves : This is always more of a concern on a shorter platform than a longer one although both suffers considerably. Stealth F16 has T-foil rudders to counteract this and the experiences over the 2001 season were very good. I imagine that anyone could buy these from Stealthmarine and fit these to any F16 platform for the class rules allow this. To see these rudder go to : http://www.geocities.com/stealthmarine2002/t-foil.html

About performance equality to the F18 class in 2-up mode I can say that the whole group was a bit anxious about this claim in the beginning. Imagine how we felt when we had punched in the numbers in the Texel and ISAF systems and got the F18 rating numbers and ofcourse rating equality to A-cat class in 1-up mode. We ourselfs were even a bit sceptical. Nevertheless since than both the pre-F16 Stealth and Taipan 4.9 spi (Both in 2-up mode) have conducted themselfs very admirably in real races. The first won the UK UKCRA championship beating F18's and iF20's on elapsed time. The last beat 39 F18 in a field of 57 or 2/3 of the fleet. Several 1-ups (Taipan 4.9, Bim F16) have since then also shown to be very fast to the A-mark and often the first to arrive there together with the A's, downwind is ofcourse no comparison with the genaker on the F16 HP designs

Report from Dermot M. found on www.catsailor.com general forum

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We have had a Spitfire here since the begining of this season. It is indeed a dream to sail. My son Neil has just won the Irish Multihull Association Travellers Trophy (56 mixed cats) this year having beaten Hobie Tigers, Hawks, Hurricane 5.9s on the water and Dart 18s and 16s, naturally on the water, and on SCHRS handicap (comment ; same as ISAF).
I usually sail a Dart Hawk, (now for sale) but I got my hands on the Spitfire for the first time last weekend and beat 2 Dart Hawks (Formula 18) and 2 twenty ft. Hurricane 5.9s on the water as well as Dart 18s, to win the race.
Reg White of White Formula in England is the builder (They build Hurricanes, Tornados and Darts) ([email protected]). (Phone: 0044 1206 302724)
Compared to the heavy Hurricane 5.9s and Formula 18s that we sail here, we consider the Spitfire to be very light. As well as the fact that everything works well and is so well laid out, it is also a beautiful cat to just watch going through the water.
I should point out that I am the Irish agent for the Spitfire, as well as the Dart range of cats.

Hi to Carl Roberts and others who have seen our www.ireland900.com page, we are still working on the idea. Even if we do not get sponsorship, we hope to sail the course next summer with a small number of cats to check it out and hopefully, run a proper race in 2003.
If you know of any rich Irish - Americans who would sponsor the race, put them in touch !!!

All the best from Ireland,

Dermot Mangan.

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Related comment :

Dermot himself states that he :"... should point out that I am the Irish agent for the Spitfire, as well as the Dart range of cats." We will try to get confirmation of the win of the Spitfire in the Irish Multihull Association Travellers Trophy.

Report from David S./Kirt S./Simon F. found on www.catsailor.com general forum

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Question from Steve :

Hi,
I am in the market for another new catamaran (this will be my 6th since 1985). I am primarily considering an A-Class (but possibly a Taipan 4.9). I would like to ask A-class sailors if they have taken the boat out with two adults on it to "pleasure" sail (as opposed to "racing", the antonymn for "pleasure"). I have a 7 year old daughter and two year old son, whom I'd like to take sailing occasionally, and was wondering if the boat can safely handle the weight without burrying the hulls under. I weigh 155 lbs (Being under-sailed is not a big concern).
Steve

Replies

Steve-

I can't speak much to the A-class, but I am a new T4.9 owner. So far I have been exteremely pleased with the boat. It is very fast and a cut above the mainstream manufacturers in technology, especially in the 16 foot range. I have a 3.5 year old son and take both he and my wife out pleasure sailing. I plan to attend races occasionally and race solo. I like the sloop option because if the wind is light, it is fun to sail the sloop solo. It is also available with a spin, which adds a whole new dimension to cat sailing. The boat is beautifully built and also extremely versatile. The few folks in the USA who have these boats are pretty enthusiastic about them and I sure needed some help initially. Now I share thier enthusiasm and can offer some assistance! If you have any other questions on the T4.9, don't hesitate to E-mail

reply 2

Steve-
I have both an "A" and Taipan so perhaps I can answer-
You can certainly take your child (I wouldn't try to take both!) with you on "nice" days and have fun on either one. I have pleasure sailed my "A" with my wife on my boat (I know I'm about your weight, she might be too but I can't tell you that ;-), or either of my kids one at a time and done fine. Having a "uni" when sailing with little kids is a blessing I find since they are designed with only one person in mind to "pull on" things. I have also sailed my Taipan uni in the same way but the Taipan has the added "luxury" of being able to put the jib on (with roller furler if desired) and having 2 trapezes so I can take my wife AND one child OR both kids (and they can BOTH "trap out" at the same time) while I sail the boat. They can then be "given" the jib sheet IF they want to do something and they can even race with me if desired. I have gone to several regattas where one of them "promised" to "race with you Dad" and then when we got there they backed out for various reasons and I just removed the jib and raced without them. They didn't have to feel "guilty" about my not being able to race and I wasn't disappointed they "backed out" or forced them into doing it (these were my only options before when I raced sloops).
Just some of my own personal experiences and why I got my Taipan-
Disclaimer- I am technically an agent for Taipan but I would encourage you to speak to other owners if you consider this opinion biased and I would be happy to put you in touch with them if desired.
If you are considering the Taipan I would recommend you also potentially consider any of the other F16 HP compliant boats like the BIM 16, Stealth, etc. as they are quite comparable in general features.

Kirt

Another reply

Steven,

I asked this question to a highly ranked Australian A Class sailor. He said he goes out with his girlfriend, but makes sure she stays in the middle so the righting moment is not increased too much. This is done so as not to over stress the rigging. The hulls of his Boyer IV can handle the weight, but the rigging size and fitting are optimised for the weight of one (150-220lbs). He generally doesnt recomend carrying passengers, particularly if it is choppy, and suggested getting a Tiapan if I wanted to do that.
Hope this helps.

Simon Fisher

(End Quote)

Related comment :

These were all replies he got on the forum. I can personally tell that a member at my club occasionally takes a passenger on his Boyer A-cat, mainly in lightish to medium winds. So it can be done on an A-cat. However the F16 HP is designed for 2-up sailing (as well as 1-up sailing) so in this respect there can be no contest between the F16 HP and the A-cat. Ofcourse the F16 HP 1-up (uni) is very comparable to an A-cat ; It is only 20 kg's heavier, 0,49 mtr. shorter and 0,2 mtr. wider. The other differences are just to small to notice without a tape measurer. I dare say that you'll have to put both boats next to eachother to see the differences at all.

Report from W.F. O. found on www.catsailor.com general forum (30 november 2001)

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I would like to offer my comments on the BIM 16. Having rigged and sailed this particular BIM 16 during the past spring, I can answer questions that any interested sailor may have (see my e-mail address).

Is it fast? YES!! The idea of the F-16HP class is exciting to me and by design it will (has) produced several fast boats (Taipan 4.9 & Stealth, too). Regarding the BIM 16 in particular, I raced it in three regattas (18 total races) and one distance race. In the buoy race it performed awesomely, finishing boat for boat in front of the entire fleet of Hobie 20s, Nacra 6.0s and even Inter 20s in every race! In light air it was surprisingly agile and powered up. While in heavy air it was comfortable and exciting! It approaches A-Cat performance upwind (has A-Baot rig) and opens another arena downwind with its snuffered spinnaker. What a BLAST! The BIM 16 is well made and this particular one (the demo BIM F16 which is for sale) is set up with all the "go fast stuff".

In the Miami to Key Largo race, I did not fair well due to my not understanding the rudder system. Mea Culpa! It is very hard to go fast without rudders in the water! I highly recommend this BIM 16, particularly at such a great price. In fact, I recommend the entire F16HP class. I have sailed the Taipan 4.9 sloop and was very impressed. The Stealth F-16 looks interesting and should make it's debute at the Spring Fever Regatta.

If I weren't racing my A-Cat at Nigel's race, then I would try to race the BIM 16, myself. I hope to see it sailing, soon.

Sail Fast and Often,

W.F.

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Replies to this post

Report from W.F. O. found on www.catsailor.com general forum (30 november 2001)

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Report from a Nacra 6.0 sailor found on www.catsailor.com general forum (30 november 2001)

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I raced against W.F. on the BIM 16 gizmo this past season. That little bugger smoked me-upwind and downwind! It was unbelievable on the downwind legs. He was flying a hull with the spinnaker flying in about 6knts! Too bad I'm so big!

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Related comment :

W.F. has sailed many different catamaran designs over the years and is well known in the US cat scene. He is often seen racing his A-cat in US regatta's and has been campaigning in the International Tornado class.He was the first to sail the Bim F16 in the US. In the Miami - Key Largo race W.F. finished about 10 minutes behind the I-17 R in 2 hours and 43 minutes. The Bim was put in the spi-less class but it is unknown wether this is a mistake or wether the BIM ran without a spi in this race.