Disclaimer - Main Page -

Sabots for the Savage 10 MLII The sabot is the weakest link in the Savage 10 ML chain. Developments are underway with the demands of the Savage ML in mind- just in case 2200 fps and 3000 foot pounds of energy are simply not enough for you! View a larger photograph of the MMP, Harvestor, Hornady and Knight sabots. From left to right: MMP, Harvestor, Hornady, Knight On this page: A description of sabots Information on sabots from experienced shooters (edited posts from chatboards.)

Sabots. See photo- from left to right:

• Muzzleload Magnum Products (MMP) "Color Code Black" 50 Cal. .45 Cal. bullet
  RR 6, Harrison Arkansas, 72601 telephone (870) 741-5019.
  This sabot is recomended by the factory- it is the "gold standard" by which other sabots are measured by, as reported by many happy shooters. However, in a few cases better results have been reported with Harvestor or Hornady sabots. It may depend on the tolerances, bullets and loads in your individual gun. Dimensions: note- it's hard to measure thin, flexible plastic accurately. Length: 0.780" long, Base Outside Diameter: 0.497", Interior Diameter: 0.451"- an XTP expands the sabot's O.D. The skirt is very stiff, the underside is the shape of a truncated cone. MMP manufactures most of the sabots on the market, although the designs of the sabots are proprietary to the distributing company.
  
• Harvestor # H5045B Black 50 Cal. 45 Cal. Bullet
  C&D Special Products, Hopkinsville Ky, 42240 telephone 1-800-922-6287
  On handling, one immediately feels this sabot is thicker and stiffer than the MMP. Length: 0.860" long, Base Outside Diameter: 0.498", Interior Diameter: 0.452"- an XTP slips right in. The skirt is very, very stiff, the underside is the shape of a truncated cone- deeper than the MMP, with a tiny nipple (from molding?) in the center. While the MMP's skirt tapers to a sharp trailing edge, the Harvestor's skirt taper ceases at 0.05" thick.
  
• Hornady #6751 Black 50 Cal. .45 Cal ( .452 240 XTP Mag and .452 300 XTP Mag bullets recommended by Hornady.)
  Hornady Manufacturing Co. P.O. Box 1848, Grand Island NE, 68802 telephone 1-800-338-3220
  The 0.970" inch length is the most obvious feature of this sabot- two round balls fit inside the fingers. Base Outside Diameter: 0.498", Interior Diameter: 0.452"- an XTP slips right in, a .451" round ball falls right out. The skirt is very stiff, it feels about like the MMP. The underside has a 3 step taper, ceasing at 0.05" thick.
  
• Knight #900128 Black 50 Cal. .45 Cal
  P.O. Box 130, 21852 Hwy J46, Centerville Ia, 52544 telephone (515) 856-2626
  This sabot does not stand up to the pressures of a Savage factory load- petals rip, and accuracy suffers significantly. The sabot is softer and thinner than the MMP. Length: 0.860" long, Base Outside Diameter: 0.500", Interior Diameter: 0.451"- an XTP expands the sabot's O.D. The skirt is flexible to finger pressure. Like the MMP, the underside is the shape of a truncated cone, tapering to a sharp trailing edge. This edge is so thin that it is translucent when held up to a bright light. The lighter construction of this sabot may be an advantage for plinking or small game loads- this is an untested speculation.

Information on sabots from experienced shooters (edited posts from chatboards.)

Ignition

When it comes to positive ignition and good accuracy, the tighter the sabot/bullet fit to bore the better. It requires considerable effort and pressure to ram a sabot/bullet home- around 40 pounds of push. You will want to order an aluminum range rod for target work, the factory rod is for occasional use in the field. This is more force than many smokepole shooters are accustomed to.

Af you have a tight fit, and seat the sabot firmly on the powder charge and you should not have any problems with ignition. Unlike using BP or Pyrodex, you will feel the positive stop when the sabot/bullet is seated, not the soft spongy feeling you get with BP or Pyrodex, which requires a few extra tamps to fully seat a sabot/bullet. Swabbing or patching is not necessary.

Radron Says: "What's happening? Misfires? failure of powder to ignite? If your bullet/sabot combo is not TIGHT going down the bore or not seated tight enough on the charge the smokeless will fail to ignite. I experienced this for the first time w/ nosler sabots and Horn xtp 250's It felt loose going down and I had "a feeling". The bullet came out bounced from the face of the chrony I was using and landed behind me. Unburned powder and sabot reamained in the barrel. I tried to seat the sabot and fired another primer. Nothing left the bore. Tried again same results. I used a bullet puller to remove the sabot and to loosen the powder. I dumped it in a pile, it was hardly burned."

Cliffs Says: " I did some experimenting today in the cold weather. I shot some MMP sabots with 452 xtp's and they went off like clockwork. I then loaded some Harvester sabots that I recieved today and things changed. I kind of had a feeling when I loaded the harvester with the xtp and it went down the bore kind of easy (easier than the mmp's.) The gun would not fire, I tried reseating several times and nothing, I then loaded the same sabot with a 300 gr bullet and it went off like it was supposed to. I shot 6 more times with the 300 gr and no problems. I then loaded another 250 and the gun again failed to fire, then loaded a 300 and it worked great. I don't think misfires have anything to do with primers or powder but with the sabot not fitting right in cold weather. The 300 gr didn't seat any harder than the 250, but with the additional weight (resistance) I believe that is why they fired."

"... I was using 48 gr of 5744, I didn't have time to set up my chrony so I don't have any info there. I can't blame the cold for the powder not going off either as I shot about 12 loads in about a half an hour, so the more I shot the warmeer the barrel was. I am convinced that if you use 300 gr bullets, the misfire issue may go away."

Mountainman Says: "You're right about the dry fire. It's a given you fire off a cap before you load a muzzleloader.We want a hard/tough sabot to contain the high pressures, but those same qualities make it hard to expand the sabot for a good seal in extremely cold temps."

Accuracy

To get to 1.5" or better accuracy at 100 yards, you have to understand that heat is the enemy. Heat built up in the barrel by shooting, or by leaving your sabots in the sun or in a hot car. Loading and shooting in rapid succession is the worst thing you can do- you will not get any accuracy to speak of.

When seated on top of charges of smokeless powder, and even 150gr of pryodex, the sabots endure high temperatures and pressures. When you ram a sabot down a warm or hot bore, the sabot heats and becomes soft and pliable. When the sabots are soft and pliable, they will not withstand high pressure and velocities. When the sabot fails, the base or bevel burns through and/or the fingers may be torn or shredded off. Accuracy is completely lost. Retrieve and examine some of your sabots from downrange. See if they have all the fingers intact, that the base is not burned through, and that no part of them are melted. They should appear to look like a four petaled daisy, with the fingers opened up to almost 90 degress of the base.

In hot or warm weather, back off the load a few grains , about ten percent. Allow several minutes ( 5 to 10 minutes, depending on how hot it is) for the barrel to cool down. Keep the 10ML out of the direct sun while it cooling. Keep sabots out of direct sun at all times.

As outside temperatures drop off into the 40's & 50's, back off the load about five percent, and load and shoot a little faster between shots. When the temps get inot the 20's and 30's you can shoot maximum loads with accuracy, and load and shoot as fast as you can reload.

After the barrel has cooled for a few minutes, dump the powder charge. then start a bullet/sabot by hand, then use a ball starter to push it about 4" down the bore. Then with the ramrod push the bullet the rest of the way down, with one steady stroke, if you can. You will want to own a palm-saver! With the MMP's and the .452" XTP's this is a tight fit. Once it is seated all the way to the mark on the ramrod, tap it twice, just make sure. Then insert the primer, and send one down range. Then back in to the shade to cool for a few minutes, and repeat.

One-Shot Says: "As I said I don't clean the my 10ML's at all while on the range. I don't even patch or swab between shots, whether I shot 10 shots or 50 shots. When I reutrn from the range, I remove the breech plug and vent liner. I then dampen a couple patches with a bore solvent like Sweets 762, shooter choice, Hoppe's #9, or something like that, and run them down the bore. I let it sit for a couple minutes, and lube the threads of the vent line and the breech plug, lightly with Permatex Anti-Seize (available at you local automotive parts store) and then install the vent liner in the breech plug aside. Then I run several dry patches down the bore to remove the bore solvent and residue, then re-install the breech plug, and your done, take about 5 minutes. If you shoot pyrodex or BP, then you have to clean it just like any other muzzleloader that shoots these more corrosive powders."

Bluebird Says: "I got to looking for a bullet/ sabot combo that was easy to load - something you can do in a treestand sitting down. So I tried the CVA Power Belt Aero Tip 295 grain bullet with the plastic base attached to the end of the bullet - this slid down the barrel moderately easily. I tried four shots, two of which gave a lousy group, and two of which never fired! The primer blew the powder and bullet out the barrel without igniting the powder! Again, this happened twice and I'm sure of the results i.e. not a loading screw up on my part. Probably not enough compression on the charge to consistently ignite the powder, IMR 4227."

Thunder Says: "The most accurate load, and I mean accurate, like 10shots, fired in the course of 1 1/2 hour at 50deg temp, is 1 1/4" @ 100 using a Hornady sabot the 240gr bullet and 44gr AA 5744. But this load only chroned 2050fps with both the MMP and Hornady sabot. Seem I seen where around 2300 was the normal for this load. Might be the lot of powder or gun, dunno.

Another very accurate load was 44gr 5744 and a 300gr Hornady .458 HP for the 45-70. Knight has the .458 sabot and they are orange colored. Have the same stepped bottom as the Hornadys. Didn't have a chance to chrono them, but guessing they were in the 1900-1950 range. Didn't get a chance to try the Lilgun with this combo."

One-Shot Says: "Do not waste your time and money on trying the green sabots and .429 bullets in your 10ML-II. They will not work. I have about 10,000 rounds thru these systems and they never have and never will work."