EBAY RIPOFF CITY

Again, as you can see from everything posted here, BIDDING/BUYING ON EBAY TAKES A LOT OF RESEARCH, IS NOT EASY, AND IS TIME-CONSUMING. THINK HARD BEFORE BIDDING ON EBAY. If you buy from a reputable store (wait for sales and it's even better), like Outpost.com or Amazon.com or Target.com or Nordstroms.com, Office Depot, Good Guys, Circuit City, Sears, Costco, Price Club, QVC(i've heard it's far better than HSN), Overstock.com(because of all the great bargain deals & high quality items we found here at their RETAIL site{do not mistake it for their auction sites where as you know buying from a private seller means more fraud possibilities}, we bought all our Xmas stuff from overstock this christmas year 2004 WOOHOO!! It was a great Xmas!!! :-) Ciao ebay! Hello Overstock!! :-) ), etc. you don't have to do ANY research on all of the 100's or 1000's of listings (since there's ONLY ONE quite reliable SELLER)--ANY ONE OF THE 100's OR 1000's OF LISTINGS AT A REPUTABLE STORE IS GUARANTEED, easily refunded, warrantied, possibly discounted, with fabulous in-store service, etc. All you have to do is worry about the item specifics that you want and you don't have to worry about being pickpocketed nor do you have to worry about buying USED BROKEN DOWN JUNK. That extra $10-$100 that you THINK you are "saving" by buying on ebay is many times FALSE compared to the "real deals" you can get from reputable companies outside of ebay. PLUS, the ebay price of the item which you would have used on ebay can be used as a lay away or save up payment at a REPUTABLE STORE that BACKS UP their items and provides easy refunds and warranties and discounts.

http://www.fbi.gov/majcases/fraud/internetschemes.htm
http://www.nethelp.org/scamhelp/
http://www.friendsinbusiness.com
http://www.scambusters.org
scams.flipshark.com
http://clarkhoward.com/library/tips/misc_scams.html
http://www.carbuyingtips.com/fraud.htm

My private opinion and many other buyers is that unlike what a lot of ebay posters say which is to report bad sellers or scammers to ebay, ebay will NARU them, BUT THEY WILL JUST GET BACK ON WITH ANOTHER I.D. TO SCAM YOU AND ME AGAIN AND EBAY DOES NOTHING TO STOP THIS (using their old CC or another one stolen or from a friend's), obviously because ebay wants to continue to profit off of these scammers (maybe thru CC bank interest ebay accrues). Other reasons for ebay not being proactive against fraudsters are as one poster cited, "ebay stock value is directly based on how many listings on the site at any given moment. If they end a bunch of listings it really is less money for them. Also these other (non-scamming) sellers who are violating policy(s) never get their listings ended because the fees are collected there.

Ebayer posts:

I NEED HELP AND ANSWERS. I was taken by a seller on two different auctions totalling 153.80. Shortly after paying he was suspended. I stupidly paid for both auctions with one money order because he didnt accept paypal. Money order cashed and I never received my items. Never got a reply to a single email. Now he is back selling under a different screen name. I have informed ebay again. I caught him the second time and informed them. He was suspended. Now I have caught him a third time and informed ebay. Why doesnt ebay care? Why dont they catch this. If I can catch it with my limited resources then if ebay isnt catching it, then they are obviously not trying or dont care. I dont want anybody else to get burned like I did, but I get zero assistance from Ebay. What can I do? How can I inform somebody with some pull at Ebay who might do something beside send me a form letter stating 'your seller is no longer registered on ebay'. Somebody please answer this!! Please. Ebay wont answer. They dont answer. They dont give a damn. I am very upset that for the second time since being suspended from ebay, I am the only one catching this. Should I set up a another account and rip people off to get my money back? I obviously wont get caught and if I do there are apparently no consequences to be paid. All that happens is I get suspended and have to set up another account under a different hotmail address. Ebay should cross check addresses to make sure that the new members havent been suspended. How hard would that be. Please, people convince me that ebay doesn't care less. Please reply for I am getting only form letters and ignorance from ebay

1 user responding:

I wish I could help but I don't even get canned responses after filing reports any longer. My results have been the same as yours. Only I have filed hundreds of these reports. There is one particular scammer I have gotten suspended over fifty times. Skeeeery Huh?

2nd user responding:
In my opinion, Ebay dont care about people getting ripped off. They are not on the internet to operate a safe and secure operation. Ebay is only as safe and secure as YOU make it. Ebay's only concern is to collect listing and selling fees from its users. When they allow people to sell on Ebay with multiple Id's, even after suspending them, They are collecting their fees, and Meg and her buddies on off to the bank. I would not urge you too create an ID to rip people off to get your money back. That would just create posts on this board about people getting burned and I see enough of it. As I said, Ebay is as safe as you make it, and when people use checks and money orders and the like. They make Ebay unsafe, and it allows for the scammers to stick around and prey.
**********

Ripped off & frustrated ebayer (buyer was ripped off by an almost perfect feedback seller) posts regarding ebay's response to fraud and posts that many of ebay's FORUM VOLUNTEERS side with ebay & sellers and NOT WITH THE BUYERS:(To be honest, the volunteer he is angry with is a very helpful, calm person who has helped buyers personally get their $ back,

but the approach and main opinion & attitudes of many[though not all] seller volunteers on the forums (even the proven helpful sellers) is that "the buyer is greedy & stupid and gets what he deserves" rather than the true fact that the buyer was not informed upfront of the various frauds).

They'll even say things like "well if the buyers weren't so stupid to fall for these scams, the scammers would just go away."

This is just putting the blame on the victim as if buyers aren't suffering enough on ebay. It's also another way to RATIONALIZE why ebay doesn't get off its duff to be proactive against fraud and scammers.

• First, who's going to kick the scammers off? ebay?!! The few ebayers who can only report a handful of the millions of listings that are available in a 24-hr period which is enough time for the scammers to work their scams?? Don't make me laugh. Even then, ebay many times, still allows the auctions to keep running the entire time. Even if the scammers are kicked off, they just reregister with another i.d. and another stolen CC#. So with no real way of blocking these scammers off of ebay, the scammers have a field day with all of us honest ebayers and our $$$'s.
• Second, if all the ebayers are educated about the scams, the only difference that will result is that the scammers will EVOLVE their tactics to be much more sophisticated such that they will BLEND IN MORE with the legitimate sellers.
• Third, ONLY A VERY SMALL PERCENTAGE OF EBAYERS visit the forum help boards and most are lucky never to get scammed for a long time because they only buy from certain categories or only certain items so they have no "immunity" or "forewarning education" from scammers and scammer tricks. Once they do get burned by the scammers, they feel angry, humiliated, and angrily wonder why there is never any warning from ebay on any of the auction ads. The next step is them leaving ebay.
• Fourth, laying the blame on the victim is just a way not to lay a blame on themselves and ebay. Even if every ebayer were educated, what about the constant inflow of NEW ebayers who join? That means EXACTLY what is essentially happening right now which is that ALL newbies who don't know much about ebay get their $$$'s stolen!!

  Well guess what, if all the HONEST ebay BUYERS leave, the sellers get stuck with all the DISHONEST Scam BUYERS. Really, that's an interesting marketplace for sellers, don't you think?? In fact that's happening right now.

  With many ebay buyers avoiding ebay or many categories of ebay AND with many ripped off ebay buyers spreading the warning news about avoiding ripoff city ebay to their friends, families, neighbors and whoever else will listen to them, the scam sellers have very few choice portions of "sucker meat" to sink their greedy, blood-$$-sucking VAMPIRE fangs into, so now they're scamming all the ebay SELLERS with scams like tricking the sellers with offers to buy the sellers' items at unbelievably super-high prices with requests to ship the expensive item outside of the US [to Africa, Ukraine or Singapore(many times with the scam buyer using stolen CC#'s to send Fedex, UPS or other carrier to the seller's address so that seller will ship the item)] and requests for hundreds of $$$'s of "remainder" sucker cash back in return for deceptive "payments" from the scammers with:

  • very well-made FAKE cashier checks
  • very well-made FAKE money orders
  • very official looking FAKE WU, bidpay, paypal, you-name-it emails that FALSELY assure the seller to ship immediately
  • STOLEN CC numbers whereby the seller is not aware that the CC# is stolen

  All the above scammer tricks by scammers on sellers rely on the sellers' "greed" and "stupidity" [if i use the NONSENSICAL EXCUSE that most of the volunteer forum sellers use to RATIONALIZE why it's the buyer's fault and why it isn't ebay's fault for not being proactive against fraud].
  Hey buyers, isn't this familiar with what the sellers say against us buyers?? hehehe
  POT.... .....KETTLE.....BLACK...hehehehehe

  WHO'S REALLY "GREEDY" & "STUPID"??!! It's only NOW that many sellers complain about fraud on ebay. Most sellers could care less about fraud when it concerns buyers. (Notice I say "most" and not "all" since there are a FEW sellers who actually do care about the problem, but they're in the rare minority.). For those few sellers who agree that ebay needs to be proactive against fraud, I feel sad & sorry & as angry as you are if you've been caught by these scammers. All HONEST EBAYERS whether buyer or seller DESERVE AN HONEST MARKETPLACE and should demand that ebay be proactive against fraud. For the other sellers who could care less about fraud before the scammers hit them, my response is POT.......KETTLE.....BLACK....heheheheeh

  As one ebayer posts:
  Apr-07-05

  One common thread I see in many "newbie" posts is dismay and disillusionment in learning that the reality of eBay bears litle relation to the happy place eBay advertises itself to be.

  Long-time readers of the message boards are well aware that eBay requires careful navigation through its shark-infested pages.

  New members who are drawn to "the world's online marketplace" seem to be getting that rude awakening a lot faster than they used to.

  Obviously, it's not good for business if eBay scares off the customers by warning them in too much detail of the dangers to their pocketbooks. On the other hand, by de-emphasizing the amount of caution that's needed, eBay not only fails to protect new members, they create an environment that allows them to be deceived and ultimately drives them away.

  From eBay's Trust and Safe That must be pretty galling to someone frantically hunting through the site to find out what to do after finding out they've been robbed on one of their first transactions. (Wait till they find out how eBay defines its responsibilities as a mere "venue".)

  I don't have the answer to what eBay should be doing to enlighten users without turning them off to the eBay Experience. I see they've changed ad agencies - maybe some new blood will give them a different perspective on the best approach to take. From what I can see, eBay has traditionally relied on user word of mouth to increase traffic to the site. Now that the word of mouth is getting more and more negative, they're in for a big public relations nightmare if they don't start addressing some of their fundamental fraud problems.

  WHAT "EBAY MEMBERSHIP" MEANS?

  The above paragraphs are a good precise posting(writing) of how fraud and new members are treated on ebay(with some minor parts deleted). And other sellers will be just downright nasty or confrontational saying "you read the agreement that ebay is only a venue and that you take full responsibility.....yada..yada...yada...." Well let me tell you something, when I join a CLUB and become a MEMBER as what happens on ebay, I EXPECT MY CLUB TO LOOK AFTER ME AS A MEMBER. Ebay treats its buyers & sellers as "members" yet does not act like a club SHOULD act. That means if there are thieves who are coming into the club on a regular basis, then i want that warning on every room i enter(including the restroom & pool areas) and what I should do to avoid or protect myself from them!!!! GOOD CLUBS PROTECT THEIR MEMBERS AND THIS IS HOW MEMBERSHIP LOYALTY IS EARNED. Otherwise, WHAT'S THE USE OF MEMBERSHIP IN AN EBAY CLUB IF YOU DON'T EVEN HAVE YOUR OWN CLUB GUARDING YOUR BACK??!!!!! (and with the words "ebay club" i refer to ebay management itself, not its various volunteers or members) . Would the warnings scare off many buyers? Yes, but as a decent club, it would make more buyers pro-active in looking out for the various frauds and not being so easily taken. Again, look at craigslist--craigslist lists the various frauds on the "For Sale" boards everytime you enter it in BOLD RED ON TOP for everyone to see. Craigslist has no formal "membership" like ebay yet from what I and others can see, craigslist CARES for its COMMUNITY much better than ebay. I could point to other clubs, also like your average boy scout/girl scout clubs. REAL CLUBS PROTECT THEIR MEMBERS and don't try to loop out of their obligations by making excuses like "we're just a venue" & "you signed the agreement" because by doing so, MEMBERS WOULD LEAVE IN DROVES which is what is happening with ebay now.

  What would help reduce fraud and reduce membership defection/disloyalty/bad-mouthing?

  1. First, the "threads" about the various FRAUD WARNINGS should always be posted on EVERY AUCTION AD.

  2. Second, there should always be a CLICKABLE REPORT BUTTON on EVERY AUCTION AD where members can readily click if they suspect fraud is happening so that the ad & scam seller can be easily tracked and deleted/kicked off by ebay.

  3. Third, if ebay would make VERIFICATION MANDATORY for all ebayers. All addresses/names would have to be verified and everyone would have to have a CC on file or other important legal document copy.

  4. Fourth, if ebay was actually SERIOUS about removing fraud and would delete/kick off the fraud ads/scam sellers as soon as reported.

  5. Fifth, limit the NUMBER OF USER I.D.'s to only 3: seller, buyer, posting to make it harder for shill/scam sellers.

  6. Sixth, maybe even regulate the NUMBER OF SELLER LISTINGS by (years as a member) + (number of auctions completed satisfactorily). The higher that rating is, the more listings the seller can list with anyone with 0 or low FB having a maximum limit of 3 or so auctions for only a small amount of $'s like $50 total but as soon as the rating would go up, the number of auctions allowed to list would also go up. Of course, FB-only auctions should not be counted. Many sellers already have lots of FB and many years as members which would mean it wouldn't even affect them. This would mainly affect newer members--the suddenly registered today seller with 1000 laptop auctions.

  7. Seventh, kicking off sellers with so many negatives. Why should ebay wait to kick off bad sellers? To collect more ebay fees? This is just plain simple. KICK OFF THE BAD AND/OR SCAM SELLERS.

  8. Eighth, if an individual is registering for the first time as a NEW USER, then a HOLD of 30-60 days should be placed on his account such that the "new member" is not allowed to sell before this period. This would help prevent scammers from using different stolen credit card numbers by allowing the true holder of the account to look over his bank & CC statements(usually received every 30 days) if he actually did apply for that $1 to $10 membership fee as well as for the initial fees for the auctions he wanted to list.

     All this could be accomplished and perhaps it would take a buyer's premium (buyers paying for the privilege to be a member) but unless these changes happen, buying & selling on EBAY will always be ANTI-HONEST EBAYER, WITH THE HONEST EBAYERS ALWAYS GETTING THE SHAFT.

     Until this happens, and i doubt it ever will, ebay is nothing more than another online shopping site but with ONE OF THE LOWEST CREDIBILITY/SECURITY RATINGS ON THE WEB.

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