threegigs  (129 ) View Listings | Report Dec-31-05 01:03 PST 1 of

Well, maybe I should invite all those sellers to the boards, because it's been a tad boring of late.

" If the seller knows this, it's true fraud. If eBay knows about it and does nothing to enforce policies, they cannot be vindicated regardless of the User Agreement or their policies. They're renting space to people engaged in criminal activities."

Fraud is a crime. Crime is taken care of in the US court system. Like we've all been saying, show us the court documents from your legal proceedings and we'll all applaud you.

Until then, all I see is someone who may be guilty of libel. Put up or shut up, basically.

plasticrap  (0 ) View Listings | Report Dec-31-05 01:25 PST 2 of

threegigs: The proof is in front of you and nbspolice has more proof. Invite those people to the board; that would be tremendous! All the auctions are bogus! I'll bet you're smart enough to understand eBay policies. I'll bet you agree that eBay is negligent, incincere, and hypocritical. I'll bet you can even tell the difference between a broken action figure and a tomato.

Shall I bid on more policy-violating auctions? Everyone else does, they just don't realize it.

Buyers are being scammed in large numbers. Confidence in eBay as a "safe and fun" place is eroding away. Honest sellers are being crowded out by these kinds of policy-violating auctions. Do you think I'm exaggerating or running some hidden agenda? What's your hidden agenda?

Fraud on eBay is taken of by enforcing policies.

plasticrap  (0 ) View Listings | Report Dec-31-05 01:35 PST 3 of

A couple of typos. I'll waste one of my 10 limit on fixing them.

That would be "insincere". And, "Fraud on eBay is taken care of by enforcing policies."

I have put up! I'm bidding on cheap fraud auctions that survive because eBay doesn't enforce policies. What do you bet all my bids are erased soon after someone from this forum tells the sellers what's going on. Fine! Another example of eBay provisions to protect criminals instead of rooting them out! I'd bid on a lot more auctions, but I'm not about to waste money on high-priced lies and I don't want to force up prices on the inevitable dupe.

And you haven't even bothered to ask where the policy violations are. Perhaps they're as obvious to you as they are to me!

threegigs  (129 ) View Listings | Report Dec-31-05 01:37 PST 4 of

The proof is in front of you What proof? I have yet to see either one of you post proof.

All the auctions are bogus What's bogus about them? I hear a lot of screaming and yelling, but you have *yet* to say what any one of them is doing wrong.

I'll bet you can even tell the difference between a broken action figure and a tomato I can tell the difference between a seller trying to get rid of the competition, and someone with a legitimate complaint (hint, the ones with the legitimate complaints back up their statements with proof).

Buyers are being scammed in large numbers Why yes, we finally agree on something! And you know what? Less that ONE TENTH OF ONE PERCENT of those buyers ever file a police report. Instead they post all over message boards ranting, raving and sounding like hysterical lunatics instead of doing something that will actually take care of the problem, like FILING CRIMINAL CHARGES.

Do you think I'm exaggerating or running some hidden agenda? Yes. I think you have a hidden agenda. Should I make it clearer? You have accused someone of a crime and not provided *any* evidence whatsoever, despite repeated requests for you to do so. That tells me *you* are the one who is not being honest.

It's really very simple. Children and adults with IQs below 80 can even grasp the concept: PROVE IT.

Can you even show me a picture of a bead in your possession that you've bought from one of these guys?

5=jp

plasticrap  (0 ) View Listings | Report Dec-31-05 02:01 PST 6 of

threegigs: #5 post You don't know beads. All these auctions are in the wrong category. Most of the titles use spam search words that have nothing to do with the items. The descriptions are empty, wrong, irrelevant, and/or impossible. They will not be able to deliver what they describe. IMPOSSIBLE! Got it? Plus there's the Nat Am policy violation they all breezed by. These sellers are either totally ignorant of their items or they're knowingly defrauding. Got it?

They will not be able to deliver what they describe. This is the complaint of nbspolice. Her sellers didn't deliver what was described. This is the message for eBay.

My obligation as a buyer is to pay for the auctions I win. Send me an email if you want to see if my contact info is good.

If I win the auctions, I'll show you the beads. They will not be as described. Maybe I'll relist them--honestly--and just for fun.

threegigs  (129 ) View Listings | Report Dec-31-05 02:28 PST 7 of

You don't know beads I'm well aware of that. eBay doesn't know beads EITHER.

The descriptions are empty, wrong, irrelevant, and/or impossible Great! Now it's just your word against theirs, JUST LIKE IT WAS IN YOUR FIRST POST.

They will not be able to deliver what they describe But, until they don't deliver it, and you provide proof that they either INTENTIONALLY delivered nothing or delivered an item that was INTENTIONALLY misrepresented, you have no case.

If I win the auctions, I'll show you the beads. They will not be as described. You see, that's where you just might have shot yourself in the foot. If the sellers read this, and send you exactly what was described (which might not be what they would normally deliver), they are going to have one heck of a libel case against you.

This is the complaint of nbspolice Go look at nbspolice's first post. She wants eBay to remove all those auctions *JUST ON HER WORD ALONE*.

Not. Gonna. Happen.

Like I've been saying. You need proof of a crime, not just your say-so. Stop ranting. Talk to the cops. Talk to a lawyer. Talk to a judge.

Why won't you do that? See, that's what makes me wonder. You are accusing someone of committing a crime against you, and yet you don't seem willing to talk to the appropriate authorities. eBay doesn't have a case. They didn't defraud eBay. eBay can do nothing unless you have a court document. Get the document, and the seller is gone.

Go to court. Do it. Don't post here, Google for an attorney, or the address of your local police station. Or an advocate. Get proof.

plasticrap  (0 ) View Listings | Report Dec-31-05 03:11 PST 8 of

threegigs: I'll repeat for you:

You don't know beads. All these auctions are in the wrong category. [That's an eBay violation.] Most of the titles use spam search words that have nothing to do with the items. [That's an eBay violation.] The descriptions are empty, wrong, irrelevant, and/or impossible. [That's a violation too. You're supposed to describe items accurately.] They will not be able to deliver what they describe. IMPOSSIBLE! Got it? Plus there's the Nat Am policy violation they all breezed by. These sellers are either totally ignorant of their items or they're knowingly defrauding. Got it?

Yes, my word against theirs. My facts against their lies and ignorance. Do you think there's something magical and mysterious here? These auctions violate numerous eBay policies. The whole category is rotted out with auctions like this. What they describe doesn't even exist, in most cases. If I win the pipestone Auction, I'll expect 150-year-old Nat Am-made pipestone beads, not the new bauxite beads from Ghana shown in the picture. And if they send the pipestone beads as described, they'll be in violation of the Nat Am policies. Now they're just misrepping new Ghana bauxite. Get it?

You see, that's where you just might have shot yourself in the foot. If the sellers read this, and send you exactly what was described (which might not be what they would normally deliver), they are going to have one heck of a libel case against you.

You mean they might not send me what's in the picture? What kind of violation is that? I can assure you, there's no chance these people can supply what's decribed. The stuff simply doesn't exist.

nbspolice wants the stuff that was described or action taken against sellers who didn't deliver what was described. She's getting nothing except the misrepped beads. Get it? It's against the rules to deliver items not as described, isn't it?

eBay can do plenty without a court document, including enforcing policies.

Don't tell me not to post here. Who are you? I hope a lot of people buy policy-violating auctions and file complaints with eBay just like nbspolice.

eBay is not exercising due diligence against known criminals who rent from them. Enforce the policies! Maybe they out to get rid of all the policies if they're not going to enforce them. And get rid of the practices that aid and abet the criminals too, such as the "private" bidding and restrictions on contacting bidders. Also, all "ask the seller" questions should automatically be shown. If that were the case, the bidders on the six auctions I'm bidding on would know what they're really bidding on. Wanna see fraud go away fast?

laieh  (47 ) View Listings | Report Dec-31-05 03:20 PST 9 of

I understand your frustration, I understand the issue of misrepresentation and miscategorizing. Who is bidding on these items? Perhaps your energies could be better spent educating the marketplace and potential buyers. Cut off demand and thats when and how you can most effectively deal with these sellers. n.s.sherlock  (10 ) View Listings | Report Dec-31-05 05:18 PST 10 of

"Enforce the policies! Maybe they out [sic] to get rid of all the policies if they're not going to enforce them. "

Now this is something I can agree with. It is quite frustrating to see others get away with breaking rules simply because eBay can't or won't put enough effort into enforcing them. Respectfully,

dag*nab*it  (294 ) View Listings | Report Dec-31-05 05:29 PST 11 of

I had to go look to see what the fuss was all about. (And boy is there a fuss!)

So let me start by saying that I don't know beads. I do, however, have a modicum of common sense and I did keep one eye open in history class. The auction I looked at was for glass beads that are described as Native American artifacts. Glass making was not one of the skills developed by Native Americans. Any glass beads that ended up in their possession had to be imported; probably as European trade goods.

I suppose they could be described as items used by Native Americans but by no stretch of the imagination were they made by Native Americans. However since the definition of artifact covers both use and modification as well as manufacture, that part of the description can't be considered inaccurate or misleading.

ARTIFACT: Any object manufactured, used or modified by humans. Common examples include tools, utensils, art, food remains, and other products of human activity.

The title does have keyword spamming since it uses the word 'arrowhead' and there are no arrowheads offered in the auction. Also to my untrained eye, the designs and colors on these particular beads do not appear to be historically accurate.

Go ahead and post as often as you like as long as it is within the board posting policies. But be aware that you are not talking to the decision makers at eBay, only fellow eBay users. The executives at eBay do not read these posts prior to making policy or operational decisions. So while your passionate posts may be cathartic they are not going to change any minds that matter.

ihatefraudsters  (2 ) View Listings | Report Dec-31-05 11:34 PST 12 of

I feel like pulling my hair out. In most of these threads about fraud (as a topic) people end up arguing with each other after a couple of posts, then it descends into throwing insults.....but I thought that, as far as the whole point is concerned - fraud - we're all supposed to be on the same side! I doubt that many fraudsters contribute towards these forums (most can't write English anyway) which means that nearly all of us who do are honest, law-abiding citizens. So why the hell do we throw abuse at each other? The ones we should be cursing at are those who created the topic in the first place : the fraudsters. My efforts are for the benefit of decent, honest people and I get shouted down just for mentioning the fact. I don't know why I ****ing bother....

13=jp

orange_cape_hides_me  (Private ) View Listings | Report Dec-31-05 13:22 PST 14 of

I reported those auctions for KWS, Dag. No action taken yet. (arrowhead on items that clearly were NOT).

We are all on the same side, although it's clear that we all have different ways of addressing the issues raised.

Many of us report until we are blue in the face, and accept what few auctions that are removed as a small victory.

Others are working off the Ebay site helping people recover funds, talking to legislators and AGs and educating those that are in a position to do something about this.

Still others are working with Ebay to effect change in policies and T&S issues. Working with Ebay has been the most successful so far, although there is still so much fraud that it's difficult to tell if anything is making a difference.

Some of us have adopted the attitude that we should educate the users of the site - that is the best defense against frauds and deceptive auctions. It is the most powerful tool available to solve some of these problems.

However with all that in mind, the ones that post to these boards regularly are well aware of the posting rules. There are sanctions for crossing the line, and losing any of these posters means a win for the scammers. So we walk a thin line, help those we can and report if we have the time. We also adhere to the site rules. We cannot advocate or endorse any actions which violate the User Agreement - because we believe that the rules are important (we want them enforced), and also because it's against the posting rules.

It really comes down to the age old question - does the means justify the end? IMO, no. This is Ebay's site, we play by their rules and work within the system that they have established.

And that is the only disagreement I see on this thread and the other thread that NBS posted.

Keep in mind that if the rhetoric is kept to a civil level we stand a better chance of having someone from Ebay interact with us about these issues. Screaming, ranting and raving to Ebay does not work. Been there, done that. I've been much more successful in my dealings with Ebay staff when I present my case, backed by facts and evidence. In every case, even if Ebay didn't respond the way I wanted they were receptive and kept the dialogue open.

I'm suggesting you do the same. Respectfully, Caped~

threegigs  (129 ) View Listings | Report Dec-31-05 15:12 PST 15 of

If I win the pipestone Auction, I'll expect 150-year-old Nat Am-made pipestone beads, not the new bauxite beads from Ghana shown in the picture.

*Finally*!

Geez, why was it so friggin' hard to get anything like that posted.

Now make sure you win, and make sure you take 'em to court. And make sure you don't expect eBay to do anything *without* a court order, or without a VERO complaint.

16-20=jp

ilfifi  (0 ) View Listings | Report Dec-31-05 18:34 PST 21 of

OP....You said...

If I win the auctions, I'll show you the beads. They will not be as described. Maybe I'll relist them--honestly--and just for fun.

Even if you relist a fake HONESTLY????? as you say .... and just for fun ... GOOD LUCK BUD!

It is illegal to sell a counterfeit even if you DISCLOSE it as a counterfeit. You will be no better than the fraudster you purchased the fake from. You both may go down the tubes for the same thing. The only difference is .....you are pointing to yourself and saying..."HEY, LOOK AT ME .... I`M SELLING A FAKE BUT I`M BEING HONEST ABOUT THE DISCRIPTION! Ebay gets a REPORT ON YOU and guess what? You`ll get the *old suspenaroo* before the jerk you bought it from will.

Discontinue starting new threads about the same old dead horse. Go about taking down these auctions the LEGAL way. Stop attacking all the posters on this board. You and police or .... {is it you, one and the same}.... should do something concrete other than screaming the old DEAD statements. If it is this important to you ... DO SOMETHING OR SHUT UP already HERE!

S--- or get off the pot.

ilfifi  (0 ) View Listings | Report Dec-31-05 18:51 PST 22 of

Correction....I meant the *old suspendaroo*

These... running a dead horse into the ground threads .... are making me pour out typos! Man, good night ... and HAPPY NEW YEAR!

plasticrap  (0 ) View Listings | Report Dec-31-05 19:31 PST 23 of

To Dag Nab It:

The auction I looked at was for glass beads that are described as Native American artifacts. Glass making was not one of the skills developed by Native Americans. Any glass beads that ended up in their possession had to be imported; probably as European trade goods.

Of course.

I suppose they could be described as items used by Native Americans but by no stretch of the imagination were they made by Native Americans. However since the definition of artifact covers both use and modification as well as manufacture, that part of the description can't be considered inaccurate or misleading.

Wrong! You're stretching things. Just because an Indian uses something doesn't make it Indian. And when it goes to Europe, does it become European again? Please. These beads never came to NA until recently. And, in fact, there's no way around the pre-1940 falsehood either.

ARTIFACT: Any object manufactured, used or modified by humans. Common examples include tools, utensils, art, food remains, and other products of human activity.

This is an academic argument that doesn't belong here. There's NOTHING pre-1940 Nat Am about any of these auctions. All the beads were made and mabe used elsewhere. They're all new and they're all recent imports to the US. The one set that might be pre-1940 gives no clue as to what it really is. It's items being sold without description or with false description.

The title does have keyword spamming since it uses the word 'arrowhead' and there are no arrowheads offered in the auction.

Now search "arrowhead beads" in "pre-1940 artifacts" and find a whole bunch more of these recent African-made beads that have no precedent in all of Nat Am history.

Also to my untrained eye, the designs and colors on these particular beads do not appear to be historically accurate.

Do you want to sweat the details?

Go ahead and post as often as you like as long as it is within the board posting policies. But be aware that you are not talking to the decision makers at eBay, only fellow eBay users. The executives at eBay do not read these posts prior to making policy or operational decisions. So while your passionate posts may be cathartic they are not going to change any minds that matter.

Interesting! I just got an email erasing one of my posts here for mythical violations. There was nothing wrong with the post. It was no doubt reported by one of the people here who dispense help, not thought.

To ilfifi: Even if you relist a fake HONESTLY????? as you say .... and just for fun ... GOOD LUCK BUD!

You don't get it, do you. The fraud auctions I'm bidding on violate the CTD policies. The items are still something. All I have to do is list them for what they really are, in the proper category, with an accurate title and description. Has this logic slipped by you? The items are not "fake". They're merely misrepped, eBay doesn't respond to repeated complaints, the sellers ignore "questions" or send back vulgarities, etc. We all know the drill. So, the best thing to do now is win the stuff and report for "non-delivery of the described goods". Then watch some more as eBay sticks its head in the sand. It's a setup!

There was a seller a couple of years ago called rendezvous-101. You can still get to his NARU ME page. Read that! He got shut down for his "own protection" against lawsuits by the fraud sellers he was mimicking and for admitting that his auctions were fraudulent! Apparently, eBay only permits fraud auctions by people who won't admit it. Great policies that merely support fraud sellers.

Caped: I see you reported one of the auctions for KWS. Any action on this? I thought not.

charm_for_a_day  (10 ) View Listings | Report Dec-31-05 19:59 PST 24 of

Caped: I see you reported one of the auctions for KWS. Any action on this? I thought not.

If the auction was reported today, it will eventually be removed. KWS violations are not top of the list for being reviewed. And it's a holiday. And it's a weekend.

Before you jump on me again, I'm not making excuses. I'm being realistic.

Frankly, if my account had just been taken over by a scammer, I'd hope eBay would help me regain control of my account before they responded to a report of KWS.

6=jp

plasticrap  (0 ) View Listings | Report Dec-31-05 20:31 PST 26 of

To caped: The holiday, weekend, and urgent hijacked accounts didn't slow eBay in deleting one of my posts from this forum within a couple hours of its appearance. And it's clear from the off-point form letter that it was merely purged for no other reason than someone didn't like it.

I'll be delighted if they purge the auction you reported, but I'll bet against it. And if they don't, I might win it and proceed with the higher agenda and, once again, we'll see eBay was notified of ploicy-cum-criminal violations, but ignored them in fasvor of more pressing problems, such as purging disagreeable posts from the community chat rooms.

Give me a clue: Which of the auctions was it? I want to make sure I win it when it survives due negligence.

27-32=jp

orange_cape_hides_me  (Private ) View Listings | Report Jan-01-06 01:57 PST 33 of

Live World removed your posts - they are paid to moderate these boards 24/7.

Ebay T&S department receives the webform reports and respond accordingly.

Two different entities.

Caped~

plasticrap  (0 ) View Listings | Report Jan-02-06 00:37 PST 34 of

Community Service Update ---- plasticrap bidding...

Isn't "Live World" that full-service adult emporium in Times Square? Otherwise,

The KWS complaint by one of the chatters here against one of these sellers hasn't struck so far. At least one other complaint has been filed by one of my colleagues at the National Bead Society, several of whom are playing along now with recharged flashlights in the well-lit venue. Have you noticed how the complaint forms have changed? There used to be ways to file specific complaints for KWS and "category" violations. These options are now gone from the complaint forms. Who benefits from this? Maybe these things aren't violations anymore?

As mentioned, I won the "indian artifact arrowhead" on Dec. 31. This cheap new bead from India actually has nothing to do with anything written in the auction, but I'll let the sleuths here in the Community Service count the policy violations and fraud counts too. You'll find these same cheap new India beads all over eBay, but don't look for them as such -- the misrepping is so pervasive that you can't find them if you ask for them by name. They're now in the "urban legend" category.

Sadly, I got sniped on the "indian artifacts arrowhead jewelry." Again, no clue as to what these beads really are, but it's likely the winner knew and it's a good example of how misrepping hurts. Count the violations. Too bad the seller is so stupid. He might have done better with something like "antique Venetian" and a meaningful category.

Up next are the "150-year-old pipestone beads" available new in Ghana where they're still made or available from the African traders. I'll probably let these go. Count the category/title/description (CTD) violations. They're bauxite, not pipestone, African, not Indian, new, not old. Genuine pipestone ones would be worth a lot of money.

I bid on another one yesterday and it's up next. This is one of the nbspolice suppliers, the guy who uses "arrowhead arrowhead" in the title. Check his list. He has several more just like this in BIN. But I got outbid right away. So what logical person would bid $5.76 (and probably more as proxy) when the same thing is available immediately for $4.95. He's got about 20 similar auctions running right now. Count the violations. He just beat nbspolice and has been a target of the Bead Society and the AACA for years. I'll bet his basketry is also from Ghana (the beads are and they're recent or new) and sources indicate that his lithics are African also. This guy is bad and eBay has everything they need to purge him. He has at least four selling accounts, as well -- all the same stuff and same policy violations! Come on you community sleuths -- why do you think there's a second bid when none of the others have single bids?

Next on the list is "three large strands" currently $13.51. This is the same stuff as above and at this price, someone is already being beaten -- and badly. You can get five strings of this same totally misrepped policy-violating material for $9.95 BIN from the guy above. There's no rationality here and this seller has been repeatedly informed of what he's really selling. This is pure fraud! He's preying on the Nat Am illusion and, of course, there's no such Nat Am material -- ever!

I hope you enjoy this microcosm of eBay fraud sellers and the realization, as usual, that eBay will do nothing to stop these practices. I'll find a way to expose some of the really big UK scammers in upcoming posts.

Have fun and be safe, you Community Service people! It's time to replace dim bulbs and add bright ones to the would-be well-lit venue.

35-37=jp

plasticrap  (0 ) View Listings | Report Jan-02-06 23:04 PST 38 of

To Caped #14: No action yet on the KWS you reported, and even with no knowledge of the category, it's obvious to everyone, isn't it?

Today's quick update: The guy in my bidding list with "arrowhead" twice in his title was reported by a bead society vigilante for "category" violations. The guy has about 20 identical bead auctions with the same violation right now. The response our vigilante got from eBay was the form letter with the "no evidence" excuse from someone named "Kit". (Isn't neat how the eBay form letter writers always have odd names? I'll bet the same guy writes all of them, thus violating the multiple ID rule.) Whoever looked at this guy's auction at T & S obviously didn't see the KWS problem that anyone around here can see. This guy has been reported hundreds of times by numerous people over the past two years. In fact, he's behind one of the auctions Angela "Che" npspolice reported for non-delivery of the described goods.

So let's see, a known criminal with obvious policy violations who's been reported hundreds of times and who has a genuine complaint against him right now slips through again. Thanks eBay! Can I sell you a few 100W light bulbs?

When is eBay going to enforce the CTD violations that result in cheated buyers and crowded out sellers? Huh? When?

This scenario must be playing out thousands of times a day. It's what makes eBay so "safe and fun"!

Remember: It's okay to bid on auctions that violate eBay policies, but not on fraud auctions. F. Kafka

39=jp

dedeyomo  (78 ) View Listings | Report Jan-03-06 00:27 PST 40 of

Yeah, that's right! The fraud and hypocrisy all around us are kafkaesque! Are you the amateur linguist who thinks my wife's Spanish is not that of a native Spanish speaker? Let's just say she was born, raised, and educated in Ecuador and was a bank manager there for 17 years, fool!

Why don't you get with the program and follow the fraud and hypocrisy playing out here? At a minumum, why don't you just shut up if you don't want to participate on the topic? No one has time for stupid people. You're just another useless eBay apologist.

41-44=jp

plasticrap  (0 ) View Listings | Report Jan-03-06 00:54 PST 45 of

Wow! There's a policy violation! Let me redo the post before the other gets deleted:

Yeah, that's right! The fraud and hypocrisy all around us are kafkaesque! Are you the amateur linguist who thinks my wife's Spanish is not that of a native Spanish speaker? Let's just say she was born, raised, and educated in Ecuador and was a bank manager there for 17 years, fool!

Why don't you get with the program and follow the fraud and hypocrisy playing out here? At a minumum, why don't you just shut up if you don't want to participate on the topic? No one has time for stupid people. You're just another useless eBay apologist.

46-48=jp

plasticrap  (0 ) View Listings | Report Jan-03-06 01:03 PST 49 of

Love: You want a picture? Go look at the auction in the plasticrap bidding list that has "arrowhead arrowhead" in the title. That's what "hillbilly" beads look like. Just ignore the category, title, and description violations, not to mention the Nat Am policy violation. Everyone else does.

It's all explained above.

plasticrap  (0 ) View Listings | Report Jan-03-06 01:07 PST 50 of

RE #48: eBay is the hypocrite. You're the apologist. Nuna sani a kasuwar jahilai, wauta ne.

51=jp

orange_cape_hides_me  (Private ) View Listings | Report Jan-03-06 01:10 PST 52 of

I did look at one of dodoyomi's auctions ... very nice auction.

But I have a question. When you describe those glass beads as "Arrowhead Arrowhead" in the auction title, but then state that they have nothing to do with Native American beads, wouldn't that be, um, what was that?

Oh yeah, KWS?

Have you tried selling some pots? Appears you have the corner on black ones. Caped~

53-54=jp

plasticrap  (0 ) View Listings | Report Jan-03-06 01:29 PST 55 of

Caped #53: You're starting to catch on! The "arrowhead arrowhead" auction is in the plasticrap bidding list. It's obvious KWS and it runs dozens of times a week and its been running for years. Only the picture of the newly-made African beads changes. It's been reported hundreds of times by several people. There are about 20 running right now. It's an obvious policy violation -- even to the bead ignorant. Where's the arrowhead? What's Nat Am about it? What's pre-1940 about it? Is this the one you reported or another one with the same violation? Do you know how many people have been beaten by this? And I can assure you, the lithics are new African also.

It's so bad that the beads have become known as "hillbilly" trade beads in bead circles. The dedeyomo auction is honest. Who says you need pictures? Incidentally, most of the guys who sell these beads as Nat Am intentionally use dark and fuzzy pictures.

Have fun, sleuths! See if you can get the auctions cancelled. Pay attention for awhile and you'll see the shills too!

orange_cape_hides_me  (Private ) View Listings | Report Jan-03-06 01:44 PST 56 of

I was talking about YOUR auction, not someone else's. Hope YOU catch on soon. Caped~

laieh  (47 ) View Listings | Report Jan-03-06 01:46 PST 57 of

Not to minimize your points but there are cheats selling 8-10,000 dollar watches that are either fake or don't even exist and then there are the laptop frauds, cell phones, atv's, motorcycles I could go on and on in high dollar auctions.

I think eBay's reaction to your issues is pretty simple, they fall into the category of "bigger fish to fry"

I know I know it's all relative but I can't get too excited over 5-10 dollar items that are misrepresented when at least when all is said and done the buyers are getting something, actually something fairly attractive. And in reality the bidders aren't forced to bid, perhaps they're uninformed, or maybe they just like what they see. EBay can't protect everyone from their own folly. I'm not excusing the blatant violations but in the scheme of things it rates pretty low as far as fraudulent items being sold on ebay. This category is obviously your back yard so it matters to you. The good news is eBay is just recently kicking butt on big ticket fraud auctions, so perhaps they'll be working their way down to your neck of the woods soon. Take a breath and lighten up, you'll live longer with, carrying around all that angst can't be healthy.

plasticrap  (0 ) View Listings | Report Jan-03-06 02:06 PST 58 of

Gosh, Caped! Dedeyomo has one auction right now and "arrowhead arrowhead" is not in the title. If you looked at old auctions, you found the same category and title violations as the fraud sellers. If you read the descriptions, it's another story. Read some descriptions and get back to us. These are community service attack auctions that are dropped in on the bum auctions to "educate" the dupes before they get scammed. I get a lot of great writtenv "feedback" for these auctions from people who are tired of bead fraud.

Go look at the plasticrap bidding list. All those auctions have CTD violations. We're all waiting for eBay to respond some year to the hundreds of complaints filed against these kinds of OBVIOUSLY fraudulent auctions.

I've mentioned this already: You can visit the forums at nationalbeadsociety dot org and see what the bead world thinks of many many fraud bead auctions. The AACA is trying to clean up the Nat Am categories -- thousands of fake lithics.

n.b., IMF: beadpolice, nationalbeadsociety, bead-collector, are not me or my native-born Spanish-speaking educated Ecuadorian wife, GOT IT? And you don't know Spanish, fool!

plasticrap  (0 ) View Listings | Report Jan-03-06 02:20 PST 59 of

laieh: There's no excuse for eBay to ignore obvious policy violations that have been reported thousands of times, if you look all through collectibles. As I've mentioned many times, I'm just running an experiment with a few bead auctions because it happens to be my area. It's all over the place and the main reason eBay does nothing is because they "don't have evidence", as stated in their form letter. This is even if they look at the complaints. Now, the way you overcome the problem is to get some experts.

Pay 100 "experts" 0.1 percent each of a top eBay salary (total cost 10 percent of a top eBay salary) and you have 100 "experts" to clean out the misrepping fraud. Don't pretend I'm just talking about my area, okay? The whole site is rotted out and they're just letting known criminals cheat the public by the thousands every day. PERIOD. They're negligent, irresponsible, and hypocritical.

I want what was described. The seller didn't deliver. Do something about it. Do you think I'm alone, selfish, or narrow-minded? I want what was described. All buyers expect that and, if eBay tenants can't deliver, then eBay has a problem and it's growing like a cancer.

60-84=jp

plasticrap  (0 ) View Listings | Report Jan-03-06 21:55 PST 85 of

To Hermine: Thanks for chiming in! There have been a couple of good posts here, but it broke down quickly when the toadies started losing track and decided it's more fun to play games and act cute.

As you know, these boards and Live World too are one of the cleverest eBay tricks of all. Most of the people who come to the boards have legitimate problems. But otherwise, there's this group of toadies who give these canned answers like "you should have used your credit card and paid through PayFraud" and then they direct you into the sinkhole of other help lines or to the User Agreement or the selectively enforced con artist protection policies. It's all designed to atomize the buying public and discourage complaint resolution through the exploitation of these bored and brainwashed volunteers who think they're doing some community service. Once the standard pat answers are laid out and sympathy expressed, they set about finding fault with the guy with the complaint who's just looking for help. These people are moronic pettifogging idiots and I agree with you entirely on who should be driven out of here and they can take all the fraud sellers with them too -- fat chance!

Nobody signs away their rights to honest business practices when they sign the User Agreement. Nobody agrees to let the flea market managers or anyone else harbor criminals and be ripped off without recourse. No one agrees to abide by policies that aid and abet criminal activity to his detriment.

There are thousansds and millions of victims who are the direct result of eBay collaboration with known criminals and eBay profits tremendously from this conspiracy. And what do these clowns here in the public forum do? They ridicule you for not paying with PayFraud, they apologize for policies and practices that foster criminal activity, and they otherwise waste their efforts investigating the members who come to these boards. Look! They're telling you your entry here in this thread is against eBay policy. They're morons, they're worthless, and eBay is a den of thieves that's bound to be shut down when someone finally invokes the Consumer Protection Act.

Keep it up, Mr. Unpaid-dim-bulb-eBay-chat-line-apologist! We're laughing ourselves silly! Living proof that the world is run by vapid morons!

86-89=jp