Blog about politics (mideast and pro-Israel, Canadian and local Montreal), world events, and random thoughts.

""

The World I Know is updated on a semi-regular basis by segacs.

Think I'm the greatest thing since chocolate-covered strawberries? Think I'm certifiably insane? E-mail me at segacs2.at.yahoo.ca.

Buy me a present! Visit my Amazon Wish List.

Frequently asked questions about me and this blog.

Atom site feed

Comments are open and unmoderated, although obscene or abusive remarks may be deleted. Opinions expressed do not necessarily reflect the views of segacs's world i know.

---

<< List
Jewish Bloggers
Join >>

 
2:10 AM
Appeal to Concordia students:

As many of you may have heard, Hillel is pursuing legal action against the CSU. Hillel has issued the following appeal to Concordia students:

As you may know, Concordia Hillel has filed suit against the CSU for failing to provide us with due process when passing a motion to ban Hillel on campus, thereby violating our right of association, expression, and religion.

Following a meeting with our lawyer, Michael Bergman, the following is what we need from the students at Concordia who feel the CSU does not represent them, (or has not in the past) and feel their rights have been violated:

We need students to come to the Hillel house on Sunday December 15th @ 11:00 a.m. (3460 Stanley street) prepared to make a statement if you feel you have been offended by the actions (or lack thereof) of the CSU. Only Concordia students came make statements, but non-Concordia students are welcome to help us prepare for trial.

We need help sorting through the piles of evidence we have against the CSU.

The following is what we need help researching specifically:

• Everything about the CSU meeting December 2nd, when the motion was passed to ban Hillel on campus
  
• Chronology of events surrounding the Benjamin Netanyahu visit
  
• Any anti-Semitic, or anti-Zionist materials published, speakers or events approved by the CSU (last year's agenda, SPHR's tombstone display, posters put up by the SPHR approved by the CSU, emphasis on the role of the CSU and CSU executives in any of these events, etc)
  
• Violations of the moratotium
  
• How the CSU controls space on campus
  
• Anti-Israel, Anti-Semitic resolutions passed by the CSU over the past two years

If you have any personal knowledge of any or all of the above, and you're a Concordia student, please take the time to go over there and make a statement.

|

 
2:04 AM
Sound familiar? Concordia -2: Minus 2 years, that is. Nearly exactly to the date.

The following article, entitled Student 'tolerance': Palestinian activists brook little opposition on a Montreal campus by Shafer Parker first appeared in Report Magazine on December 18, 2000:

Simmering discord between the two groups erupted into open conflict last month when the local chapter of Hillel, an international Jewish student support group, displayed on their information table a widely circulated column entitled "Myths of the Middle East," by Arab-American journalist Joseph Farah, who serves in the U.S. as editor and chief executive officer of the on-line magazine WorldNetDaily (www.worldnetdaily.com). The column, which first appeared in the Jerusalem Post, argues that the Palestinian fight for a homeland and for control of Muslim holy sites in Jerusalem are merely a cover for the Arab world's intention to erase Israel from the Middle East.

[. . .]

But instead of refuting Mr. Farah's assertions, an Arab student group, Solidarity for Palestinian Human Rights (SPHR), insisted that the offending material be immediately removed from the information table. It then passed a resolution within the Concordia Student Union (CSU) condemning Hillel for disseminating material that was "racially, ethnically and religiously discriminating."

Hillel spokesman and Concordia business major Yossi Lanton says the official condemnation was unnecessary because Hillel took steps to undo the damage as soon as they were told their material was offensive. "We had that column off the table 20 minutes after it first appeared," he says. "Later we apologized. But that wasn't considered good enough because the apology was made in the CSU council meeting to the Muslim Students' Association, not in public to the SPHR."

But what rankles most with Mr. Lanton is his perception that the CSU supports a double standard in regard to the SPHR. "They repeatedly play videos in the student centre that show things like an Israeli policeman beating a Palestinian," he says. "And when the SPHR held a march this fall to protest the ongoing violence in the Middle East, they had banners that equated the Star of David with a swastika. Someone tried to burn an Israeli flag, and when a Jewish girl ran to rescue it, the crowd started chanting 'Down, down with Israel.'" When Hillel asked for an apology, spokesmen for the Palestinian group denied responsibility, blaming non-member "extremists" for the excesses.

CSU president Rob Green brushes off Hillel's accusation that the SPHR is allowed to distribute material offensive to Jews. "No one has ever shown me any SPHR material that opposes the Jewish culture, people or religion," he says. "The SPHR is focused exclusively on the behaviour of the Jewish state." Confusion over what materials are acceptable arises, he says, because "the minute anyone says something against the state of Israel, the Jews start crying anti-Semitism. But it's not the same thing." Which is a shame, he adds, because "a lot of Palestinian students want nothing more than a democratic debate on these issues."

Hillel's concerns over the abuse of democracy rose to new heights on November 27, when a CSU resolution calling for Israel to enforce UN Security Council Resolution 242 was supposed to be debated and approved. Resolution 242, which was originally approved in November 1967, calls on Israel to withdraw from all the territories it occupied at the end of the Six Day War and to "achieve a just settlement of the refugee problem." Concerned that the Palestinians could easily approve the resolution in overwhelming numbers, Hillel called for a boycott of the vote.

Which may have worked, says dean of students Donald Boisvert, because only 411 students showed up, 111 short of the number needed to form a quorum. "But then again," he says, "we're approaching exam time. A lot of students may have decided they needed to study." Mr. Boisvert says that even though Hillel was prevented from distributing a particular piece of information, he sees no need to defend their right to free speech. "We stand back from ruling on what is appropriate and inappropriate," he says. Nevertheless, he insists he would never allow anyone to distribute hate literature. Asked about the banners equating the swastika and the Star of David, he replies, "Well, I can't get into what an individual Palestinian decides to do or not do." He acknowledges the Palestinians are numerous enough to dominate campus discussions. But he cannot say how many of each group are on campus. "We don't ask for that kind of information," he says.

The real issue, says Mr. Farah, whose column sparked Concordia's recent unrest, is whether freedom still exists on North American campuses. He sees a growing intolerance for meaningful free speech within academia that, in his opinion, seems even worse in Canada than in the U.S. "But these days campus demonstrations everywhere are often in opposition to free speech," he says, "which is ironic considering student activism began in the 1960s with the free-speech movement."

Freedom is also the reason why even Arabs ought to support the existence of Israel, Mr. Farah says. "I've travelled extensively throughout the Middle East," he says. "And I can tell you that unlike Israel, Arab-controlled lands are one giant police state. Until the Arab world demonstrates it believes in individual rights, Arab students in the West ought to be most concerned about what's going on in their homelands."

Just replace Yossi Lanton with Noah Joseph, and Rob Green with Sabine Freisinger. Anyone feeing a sense of deja-vu?

|

 
1:58 AM
More media coverage of the Concordia Hillel situation:

• Hillel debate heats up - Montreal Gazette, December 13
  
• Concordia Hillel accused of promotiong 'racist' literature - Jerusalem Post, December 12
  
• CSU offers Hillel conditional reinstatement; Hillel demands apology - Hillel International Website, December 13
  
• Banned group taking campus union to court - The Globe and Mail, December 11
  
• CSU bans Hillel for IDF recruiting - Canadian Jewish News, December 11

These are just a few of the articles with updates. If you come across more, let me know.

|

 
4:49 PM
Back from my quick trip to Toronto. Thanks to everyone who e-mailed me to update me on the Concordia Hillel situation. For those who may not have heard, at last night's council meeting, the CSU voted to restore Hillel's tabling and operations privileges, but they're still withholding their funding until Hillel agrees to sign an "agreement". Hillel - justifiably so - is not willing to give in to this blatant blackmail.

I couldn't be there to give a firsthand account but apparently over 100 people showed up to support Hillel. Kudos to everyone who went! At any rate, the Link has an extensive article covering the issue, along with several photos. Definately check it out for more details.

I'll just add that Hillel's having an open general meeting this Sunday, December 15th, at 8pm. Anyone who has ideas, wants to help out, or is simply pissed off and feels the need to do something, is invited. For details on location, e-mail Noah Sarna, co-president of Concordia Hillel.

|

 
12:31 PM
Further update on Concordia Hillel: The Gazette's Irwin Block attended Hillel's press conference yesterday, and reported the following in today's paper:

Lawyer Michael Bergman said yesterday he plans to file a civil action against the Concordia Student Union in Quebec Superior Court by next week seeking annulment of the suspension of Hillel's rights and privileges.

The university will be named as a co-party to the action, and be asked to "take control of its own space and property" and enable Concordia Hillel to carry on its religious and secular programs.

If necessary, Concordia would be asked to place the CSU under trusteeship, Bergman warned.

Hillel would also seek "significant" punitive damages for infringing on "the freedoms, liberties and constitutional rights of Concordia's Jewish students and their association, Concordia Hillel," the group's co-presidents said in a statement.

As many of you know, the CSU will be meeting tonight to attempt to pass motions forcing Hillel - and other groups - to sign agreements before their club can be reinstated. On this point, Hillel's lawyer said the following:

The student government has since backtracked, saying Hillel can be reinstated if it signs a commitment not to distribute material that promotes war.

A motion is to be presented at a council meeting tonight calling for Hillel's immediate reinstatement, while another restates that all campus clubs sign the commitment.

Bergman, acting as Hillel's counsel, said the group will continue to refuse because "signing it would mean we are against the war on terrorism, a war against Iraq, a war in self-defence, a war to protect Canadian soil."

Essentially what it comes down to is the CSU's refusal to accept that others may not share their views, but still have the right to freedom of speech. The CSU's politicians are anti-war. Hillel - from my view, normally a peace-loving organization - is being asked to sign an agreement to share that view, or else it will not be allowed to operate on campus.

Hillel's views on peace or war are irrelevant. What is relevant here is the principle of the thing. The CSU cannot dictate to any of its member clubs what to believe or what political views to hold. If Hillel wants to be a pro-Israel club, the CSU can't ban it from operating because the CSU is pro-Palestinian. If some other student group wants to endorse free trade, the CSU cannot ban it because the CSU is anti-free trade. And if tomorrow, a group of students wanted to form a pro-war group, then the CSU really has no right whatsoever to disallow it on the grounds that they are "demilitarized".

Freedom of speech applies to everyone - agree or disagree. And that is the real issue at stake here. The CSU is going to try to pass more motions against Hillel tonight. See below for the appeal to the community to show up and protest.

|

 
11:39 AM
I'll be in Toronto until tomorrow night, so posting will be light over the next couple of days or so. But I urge whoever is around and able to go support Hillel tonight at 8pm at the CSU council meeting. We can't let them get away with this.

|

 
8:54 PM
Stand up to the CSU!

Concordia Hillel has issued the following appeal:

STAND UP TO THE CSU!!!!!

As many of you know, the CSU banned Hillel Concordia on campus, the only representative voice of Jewish students at Concordia. On Thursday December 12, 2002 the CSU will be convening to pass motions regarding Hillel. Please meet us at 8:00 p.m. in the Hall Bldg. (De Maisonneuve ave. between Mackay and Bishop) in front of room H110, so we can walk into the CSU meeting together. This is your chance to be heard, represent yourself, and take a stand.

(Non-Concordia students welcome)

Unfortunately I'll be out of town so I won't be able to attend. But if you are in any way capable of going, please do. And spread the word. Concordia Hillel needs our help.

|

 
3:13 PM
Someone's got self-confidence issues . . .

Something makes me think that Louise Beaudoin must have always been picked last for teams in gym class when she was a kid. She's gone ahead and commissioned a poll to measure her own popularity, which she even paid for out of her own pocket so as to avoid the appearance of a conflict of interest.

The poll cost $9,100. Louise, shrinks are chepaer.

|

 
11:56 AM
Canada finally bans Hezbollah.

The move comes a week after Hezbollah's leader called for a global suicide-bombing campaign. Hezbollah's military wing had already been banned, but it's charitable arm had remained untouched.

And it's about time, too!

|

 
10:36 AM
A group of Hollywood actors, entertainers, and musicians is urging Bush not to attack Iraq.

More than 100 entertainers signed the missive, which says a war with Iraq will "increase the likelihood of terrorist attacks, damage the economy and undermine our moral standing in the world."

[Tony] Shalhoub, Martin Sheen and Mike Farrell were among nearly a dozen performers who got together to draw attention to their cause.

Among those signing the letter were Academy Award winners Kim Basinger, Helen Hunt, Olympia Dukakis, Susan Sarandon and director Jonathan Demme.

Other names included former "X-Files" stars Gillian Anderson and David Duchovny; "The West Wing" cast members Sheen, Janel Moloney, Bradley Whitford and Lily Tomlin; "CSI: Crime Scene Investigation" actors Marg Helgenberger and Robert David Hall; and "Ocean's Eleven" co-stars Matt Damon, Don Cheadle, Elliott Gould and Carl Reiner.

R.E.M's Michael Stipe, Peter Buck and Mike Mills joined fellow musicians Peter Yarrow and Bonnie Raitt.

Now, for the record, I'm not "pro-war" and I don't see how anyone could be "pro" anything that will result in loss of life. But, while always regrettable, war is sometimes necessary, simply because the consequences of appeasement would be far worse (World War II comes to mind as an example).

So what I'd like to know is, what qualifies a movie or television actor, or musician, to be an expert on foreign policy? This group of celebrities may be nostalgiac for the "We are the World" days, but in this case, they just look foolish. America may worship celebrity, but, except for in his role on the West Wing, nobody's going to put Martin Sheen next to the red button. (Then again, they did elect Ronald Reagan.) The point is, celebrities are experts in their domains - fame, headlines, occasionally even talent. But when the line between celebrity and competent expert gets blurred, we're all in trouble. Next thing you know, we'll have Julia Roberts handling trade negotiations, and Britney Spears commanding troops.

Update: The full text and list of signatories of the letter is available on MSNBC (via LGF).

|

 
12:16 AM
Concordia Hillel to take legal action against the CSU. Hillel will be holding a press conference tomorrow at 1pm to announce its intention to sue the CSU. Keep watching for the details.

For those of you who are a little confused with the chain of events, I'll attempt to clairfy:

Hillel sent a lawyer's letter by bailiff to the CSU last week, informing them that legal action would be taken if the resolution to freeze Hillel's funding and suspend its privileges was not rescinded by Monday (yesterday) at 5pm. By that deadline yesterday, the CSU had failed to respond.

In a JTA article, the CSU was said to have "conditionally reinstated Hillel's privileges". But the CSU didn't actually restore Hillel's funding and privileges. Instead, first in a proposed deal by CSU president Sabine Freisinger, and now in proposed resolutions by council, they're aiming to reinstate Hillel under certain "conditions" only.

The "conditional" reinstatement of Hillel is unacceptable. The CSU screwed up, and now they want to impose conditions to try and make Hillel pay even though it did nothing wrong. That's like stealing a car from a guy, and then demanding $1000 to return it.

Hillel deserves nothing less than a full apology and a reinstatement of all its privileges - unconditionally. Anything less is not only an insult, but a travesty of justice.

Stay tuned . . .

|

 
8:27 PM
Two Israeli Arabs make Meretz top 10 in the Israeli primaries.

To the next pro-Palestinian who accuses Israel of racism, when was the last time that Jews were allowed to be elected to government in any Arabic country? Or, for that matter, homosexuals? Or - in the case of most of those countries - when was the last time anyone was allowed to vote in a democratic election at all? (And no, Saddam Hussein's kind of "vote" doesn't qualify.)

Those who would accuse Israel of being undemocratic ought to look in the mirror.

|

 
2:01 PM
More ridiculous discourse about bilingualism:

Statistics Canada released new census figures this week, and now the PQ nitwits are falling all over themselves to decry a "lack of bilingualism" in Canada.

"It's a dream, this vast bilingual country and this dream is not a reality," Diane Lemieux said at a news conference after the 2001 census figures were unveiled. "This image of Canada being a bilingual country is an image disproven by reality. "It's not true that French and English coexist as equals throughout Canada." Lemieux said French would be better protected if Quebec were sovereign.

"The real solution is for Quebec to be a country," she said.

The census showed Canadian bilingualism is divided along geographic lines, Lemieux suggested.

Of course, to the PQ, everything would be better if Quebec were sovereign.

But that's not the point here. The point is that while the number of francophones in Canada (excluding Quebec) dropped a tiny bit - 4.4% down from 4.5% in 1996 - the truth is, both French and English-speaking populations dropped as the number of allophones (people with a mother tongue other than French or English) increased sharply. This is a result of increased immigration and multiculturalism, and only the PQ would see it as a BAD thing.

Wasn't it Louise Beaudoin who was rallying about "rampant" bilingualism just a few short years ago? Of course, in that case she meant Quebec - where 83.1% of people speak French at home, compared to only 8.3% who speak English (down from 8.8% in 1996). Of course, to the PQ, bilingualism is only bad if it's in Quebec. Their "raison d'être" is to preserve French, and of course there's nothing wrong with that except when it's done by criticizing other languages and groups.

Language has always been divided along geographic lines. That's human nature. People tend to gravitate towards areas and communities where there are others who share their language and culture. In fact, the entire PQ argument for sovereignty is based on the division of language along geographic lines.

The problem is that the PQ has always seen the population of Canada as pieces on a chessboard, which they are free to position and manipulate at will. This was the reasoning behind immigration policies that would see immigrants forced to live in designated (outlying) areas instead of big cities. This was the reasoning behind efforts to shut down English schools and force all immigrants to send their children to French schools, even if they already speak English fluently. This was the same reasoning behind the law forcing all companies with 50 or more employees to conduct their internal business in French - even if all the people working at the company are non-francophone - and to advertise in French even if they're targeting a mainly non-francophone market.

The PQ wants to hammer out a francophone society - whether the people like it or not. And now the same government that has been so restrictive of its anglophone minority is criticizing the rest of Canada for not being French enough! The difference, of course, is that in the rest of Canada, people are free to speak whatever language they choose. And this is apparently what the PQ finds so offensive. Maybe they ought to start targeting communities out in Alberta for "forced bilingualism" laws. Something tells me they wouldn't get welcomed with a red carpet.

|

 
12:32 AM
What's wrong with those wacky Europeans?

I've heard a lot of discourse lately on what's gone wrong in Europe - why there's so much of a propensity to support false moral equivalencies, why antisemitism is on the rise, and why the EU is so quick to criticize Israel while defending Iraq.

There are tons of theories out there, but I think I've finally got the winner: Lack of priorities. Most Europeans would rather give up sex for a month than quit smoking.

Nearly 80 percent of British smokers, almost 70 percent in the Netherlands, France and Germany and more than 55 percent in the Belgium and Spain would forgo sex rather than live without cigarettes for a month.

Well, that explains it perfectly.

|

 
9:32 PM
More prominent Arab leaders speak out against terrorism. On Saturday, King Abdullah II of Jordan made a speech about how the "true voice of Islam" is against terrorism and violence. And while he included the seemingly requisite criticisms of Israel and the "balanced" call for an end to "all" violence, it's at least a step.

Now Nabil Shaath, a top Palestinian cabinet minister has added his voice to the rising condemnation of violence:

Planning Minister Nabil Shaath said attacks on all Israeli civilians must stop, including on Jewish settlers in the West Bank and Gaza Strip. "Stopping targeting Israeli civilians is a step that needs to be implemented," Shaath said.

I'm sure we could find plenty to criticize in both those leaders' motives, politics, or even actions. But that's besides the point. The point is that - whatever their motives - prominent voices are criticizing terrorist attacks against Israeli civilians. Hopefully this is the beginning of a trend.

|

 
5:05 PM
Noah Sarna and Noah Joseph, co-presidents of Concordia Hillel, have written an article urging all Concordia students to take back their campus. It's not much more than a summary of what we already know, but it's worth a read.

|

 
10:22 AM
UQÀM lets Israeli journalist speech go ahead. The university reversed its original decision, made Friday, and Gideon Kouts will be allowed to speak today as originally scheduled.

But the following may shed some light into why the university cancelled the planned talk in the first place:

Desmarais said the university received two threatening phone calls after posters advertising Kouts's talk were put up around campus on Wednesday.

The anonymous callers threatened the event with the same type of violence that marred the anti-Netanyahu protest.

"Suddenly, some people became very tense at UQÀM," Desmarais said. "It was asked, 'Are we going to have the same things happen here that we saw elsewhere?' - namely Concordia."

Kudos to UQÀM for not giving into this kind of bald-faced blackmail. And to the cowards who made those calls, if you're out there, know this: We have no tolerance for your kind of mob rule here in Canada. This is a free and open society and even people you disagree with have the right to be heard.

|

 
10:46 PM
Notice to readers: Some of you may notice that several comments have been deleted. I posted repeated warnings, but sadly, they were unheeded, and I was forced to step in. I'm as against censorship as anyone, but several posts have crossed the line and I was forced to remove them. You know who you are, and I'm tired of playing nanny, so behave.

|

 
1:23 PM
UQÀM cancels speech by Israeli journalist.

Thought it was just Concordia, did you? Well, now the Université de Québec à Montréal is throwing its hat into the ring of anti-Israel universities. The Gazette reports that a scheduled talk by Israeli journalist Gideon Kouts has been cancelled. The stated reasons are technical problems in space booking and "complaints over ads for the event". In other words, the pro-Palestinian lobby put pressure on the university to shut this down, and it caved.

(Kouts) said he is surprised and more than a little mystified by the university's decision to scrap his appearance. "I'm not inciting anyone. I've never killed anyone. I'm just a journalist and a university professor who was coming to talk to Jewish and non-Jewish students about my experience (in Beirut)," said Kouts, who was to speak tomorrow.

Hillel's ads for the event consisted of posters and handbills showing a Star of David with a slash through it, and the words "De Durban à Beyrouth, l'exclusion d'Israel et des juifs". Looks like Montreal has to be added to that list now too.

Kouts is the same journalist who had his credentials revoked at the Francophonie Summit last October for being Israeli and filing reports with an Israeli TV station. Anyone in Lebanon with Israeli nationality is subject to arrest and deportation. So Kouts is no stranger to controversy. But he's still perplexed at the turn of events at UQÀM.

"In my mind, it's censorship. It astounds me that this could happen in a free city like Montreal . . . I've never had this happen in France or in any Arab country I've visited," Kouts said.

Kouts will deliver his speech at the Federation CJA Building instead, but won't have the opportunity to address students.

This is a clear case of censorship and the repression of the right to free speech. Just like at Concordia, pro-Israel speakers and students at UQÀM are having their rights trampled on. This needs to be fought wherever and whenever it happens.

|

 
1:48 AM
More on the CSU and Concordia admin. The following comes courtesy of an e-mail from Jon, and explains further the distinction between the two legally separate bodies:

Everyone who gets upset with what's going on at Concordia blames the administration, but they are totally powerless on the issue. The CSU is a seperate and legal institution, and as such the admin has no recourse against them unless they start breaking laws. I know that it's hard to understand, because the CSU is ON university premises, and therefore people wonder why the admin just doesn't step in and stop them.

Problem is, the CSU successfully won an "accreditation" vote in September 2000, which gave it official status as the representative of Concordia undergrad students. It legally owns it's office space on the 6th floor, it owns the Reggie's space, it owns the Java U space, it co-owns the Mezz space on the 2nd floor, it owns the Hive at Loyola, and it collects approximately $600,000 from students every year, which is part of it's annual overall budget of approximately $1.2 million. This is not a trivial student club; it is a powerful, legal, and resourceful institution that is being run by legally elected members of the student body. The admin is literally not allowed to step in and do anything to it unless it has just cause. And as long as whatever the CSU is doing only affects students, the admin can't do a damn thing: in the eyes of the law it's up to the students to change things because they're the members of the student union.

So, as a result, it's pointless to attack the admin because they are the CSU's BIGGEST enemy, and the enemy of your enemy is your friend. Trust me when I tell you that if the admin could take down the union in ANY way possible they'd do it at the drop of a hat.

In other words, the fight is against the CSU, not the Concordia admin. The real change needs to come at the ballot box.

|

 
1:05 AM
Meanwhile, back in Phoenix . . . The Habs finally broke their losing streak. Montreal won tonight 4-2 over the Coyotes. Way to go, guys!

|

 
12:37 AM
Alright, I've had it.

I added a comments feature to this site because I always enjoy feedback and debate. And I opted for a policy of non-censorship because I believe in freedom of speech.

Sadly, certain people have not seen fit to keep their comments in the realm of decency. I really don't want to have to start censoring comments. So I'm asking everyone (this means YOU) to keep any racist remarks to yourself - or at least to another part of the web. It has no place here. And it just discredits you in the process and reflects badly on you.

In the meantime, I'm stealing the official policy on comments from LGF (cause it's so brilliantly-written there):

Comments are open and unmoderated, although obscene or abusive remarks may be deleted. Opinions expressed do not necessarily reflect the views of segacs's world i know.

That's the policy, for the time being. But racism has no place here, in any form. I'm asking you to practice some self-restraint, and if you really can't do that, I WILL be forced to step in.

|