Posted on February 4, 2002
The interview took place on Saturday, January 26, 2002 a little after 3pm in the upstairs green room at Improv Olympic.
Jon: Thank you TJ for doing this interview with me.
TJ: Thank you Jon for having me.
Jon: All right, um�um, I know that I'll be posting this later on my web site, so all you people who out there where- thought all this all was real, then the joke's on you.
TJ: [laughs] It was- it was a media stunt.
Jon: [laughs] Yes, great publicity. [laughs] All right, um�so, basically for people on- who are reading this transcribed on the internet right now, um�I'll be having this interview as a conversation, um�a la interview/questionnaire thing.
TJ: Okay.
Jon: All right.
TJ: First of all, turn off your computers and go outside.
Jon: [laughs] Yes, you're sitting too far- too close to the screen. All right, um�TJ.
TJ: Yes.
Jon: You grew up in Holyoke Massachusetts.
TJ: True.
Jon: What was life like in Holyoke Massachusetts?
TJ: Holyoke Massachusetts is�it's ah, a wonderful place. It's an old- it was a paper mill town in the 1920's, and it was a heavily ah, it was heavy Irish population like, um�they would hire Irish there so lot of Irish moved there and- it was at one time was called Ireland Parish on the Hill. Um�and it's kinda, the kinda the place that people don't really move away from. Usually its like three or four generations of people [that] lived in the same house and, um�everyone kind of knows each other and/or knows of each other.
Jon: So it's a very small town?
TJ: It's, it's ah, it's still a city. It's, it's, I think it's like 35,000 or something like that.
Jon: [overlapping toward the end] Oh, okay. That's big.
TJ: But, it's real like self sufficient, weren't not like a suburbs to anything so everyone who lives there pretty much works there, goes to school there, goes to church there.
Jon: [overlapping toward the end] It's western�Massachusetts?
TJ: Yeah, western Mass, near the ah, near the foot of the Berkshire Hills.
Jon: Okay.
TJ: The pioneer valley.
Jon: What did your parents do for a living?
TJ: My dad is a plumber and my mom, um� started teaching grammar school ah, when I was probably 13, 14 years old.
Jon: Did you ah, did your dad ever want you to follow in the plumbing business or your mom want to teach- have you teach?
TJ: No, um�no my dad kinda- it was probably plain from an early age that I was not uh, not meant to do either skilled or physical labor for very long. [laughs] I worked a summer with my dad or not even a whole summer um, but I had a hard time getting up in the morning [I start laughing] so I actually got fired- [I laugh some more] by my dad.
Jon: Your dad fired you?
TJ: Yeah. And ah, you know my- like, when he asked to help- me to help him it was usually like 'hey, help me by going and standing over there.' [both laugh] Uh, and my mom never put any heat on- heat on me to be a teacher, um�neither put heat on me to ah, to pick any pick anything in particular. They just, you know, like any good parent concerned with their child's happiness.
Jon: [overlapping toward the end] Do you�[go to] public school and all that stuff?
TJ: I went to, I went to a public school for like, the first three or four years of my schooling and I ended up at ah, um, doing four years at a Catholic grammar school and then a Catholic high school.
Jon: You Catholic?
TJ: Yeah.
Jon: Do you still go to church?
TJ: Rarely. When I go home, um, but I haven't sought out a- sought out a church to attend here.
Jon: So, um, was it an all boys' school or was it [a co-ed]?
TJ: Oh, fellas and ladies, but we had, like ah, ah, a dress code and, you know, stuff like that. Not a uniform but we had to wear ties or, or sweaters up to the neck or something like that.
Jon: [overlapping towards the end] Taught by priests and n- and nuns?
TJ: Uh, primarily I had- I had probably half nuns, half lay- lay teachers and uh, one priest mixed in there.
Jon: Okay, um�
TJ: We had to take like Latin and stuff like that.
Jon: Oh really?
TJ: Yeah.
Jon: Do you still know anything about Latin?
TJ: I am still fluent in Latin.
Jon: Really? [laughs]
TJ: I tell ya, the best thing about Latin is that it helps with your English, you know?
Jon: Yeah.
TJ: 'Cause you have to�
Jon: Root words and stuff like-
TJ: Yeah. And you have to decide what the- to know what, um�declension? Conjugation?
Jon: Conjugation. [repeating it since I recognized it as an grammar term]
TJ: How to- how to conjugate ah, I guess nouns? Well, whatever-
Jon: Verbs. [You] conjugate verbs.
TJ: Yeah, okay, then this- to like figure out declension or what case you're supposed to put it in you have to real- you have to find out what function the word serves in the, in the sentence. So, it's great for like, just uh, figuring out what the subject, direct object, indirect object, object, prepositions and those kind of things, 'cause different- there's different lettered endings depending on what, you know, what- which one of those it- the word might be.
Jon: Right, um, were you a good student in- in school?
TJ: Used to be.
Jon: Used to be?
TJ: Yeah.
Jon: When did you stop, stop- not being a good student?
TJ: Uh, college, started being a bad student.
Jon: Why was that?
TJ: I was lazy and uh�I think part of it too was just ah- actually once, once I didn't do well in a class or two it was, it was freeing.
Jon: Right.
TJ: Um�'cause I used to, you know, be real ah, uptight about getting things done and getting things done right and ah- I still like to do some things right, but ah, there's a lot of stuff there is- like�I ah,�it's just a lot of worry, that, you know, might, might be [laughs a little] might be needless. I need- I still- I need- I do like to, I like to do it well, but I don't necessarily now worry about, 'bout making sure my social studies [laughs while saying] homework is in on time�ahead of time or-
Jon: Um�did you graduate from high- ah, college?
TJ: Yeah. It uh, took me an extra semester. I graduated from Syracuse University with a dual major in English and Television/Radio/Film production.
Jon: Okay, um�with that, did you have any uh, idea of what you wanted to do as a profession at that time?
TJ: I thought I wanted to work in television production or movie production and I worked as a PA, um, when the Untouchables TV series was here.
Jon: Right.
TJ: And uh, it was just, it just rotted. So, I uh, I- it didn't seem like the further went into production the more it just rotted, but it rotted at a higher level, like�
Jon: Mean the people you were around?
TJ: Yeah, well, yeah just not- not, it- just what your job function was. Like as a PA all you did was tell people, like be quiet or they couldn't walk down the street or you had to go get, like someone their egg white omelet or whatever. And then even the further you went into production all you did was like, "okay" meal breaks or working through a meal break or- it was all just problems, like no one talked to the producer for anything good. They only talked to a producer if something was wrong and they needed to figure how to fix it right away.
Jon: Right.
TJ: Um, and there was no, like, you weren't, you weren't a part of the creative process at all as an um, an um, shearly as a production side, as a producer or, you know, lower level, in the production of whatever.
Jon: How do you think ah, you got your, your sense of humor? What shaped it, do you think?
TJ: I uh�well, if you were to ask anyone in my family I don't have a sense of humor. [I laugh] Um�my mom finds me one of the, one of the less amusing people. Um, and my, my dad and I laugh at very, very different things. So, um�so, I'm- if I, if I cop to one I'm not, I'm not certain where, where it came from. Um, and most of the time I don't, I don't get why�why people think that something I said was funny. I mean, half of it is now on reputation as opposed to like, really, really earning it.
Jon: That segways really well [TJ laughs] into another point I had, which, um, is basically your notoriety is being the best improviser in Chicago. Um, other people could argue that.
TJ: It's only because so many people have now moved away. [both laugh]
Jon: Oh really?
TJ: Um, yeah, I- there's, there's�there's 300, the "best" improvisers in Chicago, you know, on, on any given day, any given moment. Um, ah�uh, I think there just used to be a lot more of us here, you know, when, when [Kevin] Dorff and Stephanie [Weir] and Richie [Talarico] and Tami [Sagher] and uh, you know, all of those people that everyone just was gaga over, including myself. Um�and Noah [Gregoropolous] and Miles [Stroth] and Paul Grondy, [Bob] Dassie. You know, like, of that list, you know, almost all of them have moved away.
Jon: Right.
TJ: Um�so I dis[miss] it, you know. I, I would- I take exception to, with like, the "best," the "best" ah, title uh, thingy.
Jon: Right. Um, after you do a performance, ah, in any, any place, be it sketch or improv, uh, because you have that notoriety, um, people always come up to you- say 'good show, good show," and, and you really have no idea whether [or] not you're really off or on. How do you get critiques for ah, performances, or do you really care?
TJ: I uh�that's interesting. Uh, I guess I would ask people that I believe, although normally you already know. Um�I would ask Noah, 'cause I know I'm gonna get a straight scoop from Noah, or Paul, um�or um, uh, Abby [Sher], but ah, I guess- I think more often than not you already know, you know. And that once you can make the division, in your head, that laughs don't necessarily mean you did a good job or silence doesn't mean that you did a bad job, then you start to find satisfaction in that maybe you tried something that never tried before, you took a chance, or um, pattern-wise the piece felt, the piece felt nice. But, um, yeah, we almost have that automatic response, like 'nice show, good job, hmm, way to go,' you know?
Jon: Yeah.
TJ: It's totally- so you do become, kind of, ennured, if that's the right word to it, um�that, you know, those- that's- it's like 'morning.' 'How you doing? Good.' 'Hello.'
Jon: Yeah.
TJ: 'How are you?' 'Fine. You?' You know, in terms of that kind of thing.
Jon: 'Weather's good.'
TJ: Yeah, automatic, automatic response.
Jon: Yeah, um�when was the- do you remember the exact time or instance that you first saw real improvisation?
TJ: Um, the first time I saw it, I- I don't know if I actually saw it or not. I went- I, I saw ah, a Second City set�
Jon: Uh huh?
TJ: �and um, it was an old fashioned set where they, they take suggestions-
Jon: They go back, they go back�and they write stuff.
TJ: [overlapping] -go backstage. Yeah, and like write�an idea, uh, which I would still consider improvisation except that Noah said when he first started watching- and was kinda the same cast- he went a couple nights and saw some really similar�
Jon: Stuff.
TJ: �stuff. So�
Jon: Things they were trying to work on?
TJ: I guess, yeah. Or like they, they had an idea they already like, and they see if a suggestion they got fit into that [both laugh a little] idea. So�um, if it was improv, that's the first time, at Second City after a performance of "Take Me Out to the Balkans." If that wasn't, then the first time I saw it was when IO was at the Wrigleyside? Right where like Mullin's is now.
Jon: Yeah.
TJ: Was, you know, whatever before, um�then that would be the first time I saw- I remember seeing John Farley, think I remember seeing Jason Chin perform and possibly Judy Fabjance.
Jon: What year was this?
TJ: Um�boy not good with this. It's probably eight years ago.
Jon: Okay.
TJ: If that's possible.
Jon: Yeah, that's probably possible.
TJ: Um�yeah, that was- I'm bad with years.
Jon: 'Cause I understand that you, um�didn't really, I mean, obviously you didn't uh, see uh, improv until you got to Chicago-
TJ: Yeah.
Jon: -actually moved here�
TJ: Never heard of it�didn't know what it was.
Jon: and�uh, so what actually got you to ah, take classes?
TJ: Um�more, more than, more than any person that I'm not related to, a woman named Lisa ah, Haleski, her name is now Masseur. I went to college with her and she moved out here. When I moved out she let me stay on her couch for like, three months, her and her new husband's couch. And um�she brought me my first Second City show, she brought me my first Improv Olympic show. Um�she encouraged me ah, if not pushed me to take classes. Um�so that's kinda- it was, it was in great deal to uh- by Lisa's urging that I uh, I uh, started, started doing it or at least pursuing it.
Jon: Right.
TJ: And it just looked, it just looked great, you know. It looked fantastic. To- yeah, just looked like the best stuff around.
Jon: What were you doing as far as ah, job-wise?
TJ: Uh, Christ, I've had some humdingers man. I uh, I was a runner at the Board of Trade. I uh, I delivered clothes, like boutique clothes, down on Oak Street. Uh�
Jon: Did you have a car?
TJ: No, the guy drove the van, I would hop out and run into, like rich people's houses and drop off their ah, their fancy clothes. Uh, I dressed up as a giant Sprite can when the World Cup was ah, in- with like- it had ah, a pack- a belt with a fan pack, so it would- I had to wear this belt and it would blow up the ah�
Jon: The can?
TJ: �the can. I looked like a huge like, um, heavy bag, you know, boxing heavy bag?
Jon: Yeah.
TJ: Uh, and it was just hot as shit that summer. Uh�it, it, and it was even hotter, I was just in a- enclosed plastic tube. So it was like a buck thirty inside [I laugh] the suit and I was wearing tights and�elbow high white glove and it was designed- if you, if you- you weren't supposed to be higher- taller than five eight or five nine to wear the suit. So, like my ass was hanging out [I laugh], I was in tights, like, a uni- unitard kinda, kinda thing. Um�so I did that. And then later on I worked in the box office and reception at uh, Second City later on.
Jon: Um�
TJ: What do you do Jon?
Jon: I uh, I'm a temp right now. Uh, right now I'm working at the ah, Tribune tower, on assignment for the last- actually for the past three months, um, with the National Disaster Relief Fund.
TJ: Oh really?
Jon: Yeah. Every since, um�9/11�happened�
TJ: Never heard of it.
Jon: Oh yeah�it's, it was in the papers for a couple of days.
TJ: [overlapping toward the end] Yeah, I don't ah, I don't get my- I get my news from ah, from the streets. [laughs]
Jon: Anyway, there was this huge thing that happened- apparently it's, it's caused worldwide�ah, things. And�
TJ: Hmm, I'll take your word for it.
Jon: And ah, so�it affected my job- I, I- at the time, when it happened I was ah, I was in a laboratory. Uh, I, I have ah, a degree in microbiology. And�
TJ: Oh really?
Jon: Yeah. And ah, basically what happened was I was doing basic, stupid chemistry of taking tea, powdered tea- they had these huge ah, two thousand pound vats where they would blend ah, citric acid and ah, sugars and ah�all other ingredients of making powdered- generic powdered tea that you would get in, like some super generic store out in New York, 'cause their- the people were doing the- doing it for were out in New York. It's called, like 4C or something like that. And uh�so they- we would get little samples and I would put [it] in, in ah, in water, in, in distilled water, and you, you know, spin it around with a [stir bar] magnet inside and you would test whether [or] not uh- through a spectrometer, so the light [would] pass through it- if it was blended correctly and titrated to see if uh, enough citric acid was in it. So different spec- it had to be within certain ah, guidelines. Uh, so it would be, uh give [I give the 'thumbs up'] 'Go.' And [TJ laughs] It [would] go through and it was- anyways, well, what happened was since their, their clients [were] in New York, in Brooklyn actually. Uh�getting the trucks over there right when it happened was a bitch so they shut down for a while and I'd already been doing, like�just making thirty hours, you know?
TJ: Uh huh.
Jon: And, uh�and- or periods of time or good chunk of days I wouldn't have to work. And uh, so I decided- at, at that point I'd already been doing, um, temp lab jobs for about a year now. And so I got, for the first time- my first office job was being a�a ah, visitor ah, security guard at some place down on LaSalle where I would sit in the lobby with a little, stupid little uh, table and I would check people's uh, ID's.
TJ: Uh huh.
Jon: Uh, so that they- [I] could give 'em a sticker so they could go inside the building.
TJ: Gotchya.
Jon: Which is, like, all Equity owned, um, buildings did this uh, security. I did it for four days, hated the crap out of it. Then I got this job at uh, you know, doing National Disaster Relief.
TJ: Gotchya.
Jon: Just doing, doing data entry for all the checks and stuff.
TJ: Oh, wow.
Jon: So, it was, it's�it was pretty�hard the first month to, you know- I mean people would be doing 'in memorial of' or sending these huge letters of 'my, my brother was on the 80th floor.'
TJ: And you had to handle those? Those were, like along with the�the checks or whatever?
Jon: Those were�yeah, those were stapled along with the, the checks and stuff.
TJ: Where did those, where did those go around- those letters?
Jon: Right, right now the- well, we got, actually got photocopies of those.
TJ: Gotchya.
Jon: But those letters are some place. But right now the photocopies are in these huge bins. There's like batches and batches of items and items of stuff like, I think over seven thousand, seven hun- seven million, of course.
TJ: Wow.
Jon: But ah, I think maybe it's closer to twenty-five million. 'Cause it, it was- after the first seven million, ah, Tribune Holiday Fund, the, the McCormick Fund was, was giving fifty, fifty cents on every dollar of contributions. So, they were okay for about three and a half million. While everything else had to do with the Holiday Fund, which we were also doing that. So not only that but people sending money for, actually just people around Chicago. And you would think that�donations for other charities were down, but they were actually up.
TJ: Huh.
Jon: You know, like, Neediest Kids Fund was up 30% and�
TJ: Wow.
Jon: �ah, and ah, Holiday Fund was up, like, 13%.
TJ: There's like a, a rash of philanthropy.
vJon: Yeah. Be interesting to see if- how that works out next year.
TJ: Yeah.
Jon: So, that's what I've been doing.
TJ: [overlapping toward the end] I've got this rash of philanthropy. [both laugh]
Jon: 'Oh! I woke up this morning and- I got this cream and- my philanthropy won't just go away. I keep walking down the street and I give my money away to homeless people. I really- really need to see a doctor.' [TJ is still laughing] Um�all right. Uh, what was- how do you like Chicago?
TJ: Love it.
Jon: Do you?
TJ: Love it, yeah.
Jon: Why?
TJ: Oh, it's big and it's still small and it's treated me better than I had any right to be, to be treated as an outsider here. Um, no people are like the people here. And um�as far as other place where you can do this work, in New York makes, you know- just seems kind of scary and LA seems a little, like, vapid. So, like, people here are like, you know, love it, love pursuing it, love, love the artistic side of, want to push it forward. And uh�yeah, I guess it�s just- I was comfortable from the first time I came here and it's given me no reason to feel, like, any- anything different.
Jon: Um�is it true that you ah, are soon to be- are, are you done at, at E.C.T? [totally messed up saying E.T.C] Are you still doing-?
TJ: I'm all done.
Jon: You're all done?
TJ: Yep.
Jon: Um�do you wanna�maybe, explain why?
TJ: Um, sure. It, it's pretty much the reason I had to leave ah, the main stage the, the first time. Um�I've got something, for a lack of better term they've been calling vertigo for the last, Christ it's now about three and a half years or something like that. Um�it's like, general dizziness and lack of coordination and sometimes, like, tingling. And uh, I get confused easily and uh, my legs get so that they don't feel like they can support, like, my body weight so it's, it's hard to stand and ah- and the first time I left, you know, I went to, like, all these doctors and ya-di-ya-da and ranging from hypnotists to otolaryngologists to nutritionists to neurologists, migraine doctors, eye doctors. Um�I got a day at the Lady Clinic in a- outside of Boston and- and they haven't been able to put a name to it. Um�and now it's become unclear as to how physical it is and how mental it is. Um�but, you know, I thought I could come back and then just nightly it was, it was getting very, very hard again. Um�physically I was feeling worse, uh, almost weekly. And then, um, it just got to the point- like my nerves, I couldn't, nerve-wise, I couldn't take anymore of like, 'how's it going to go tonight?' 'What, what's gonna hap- oh no, it's coming.' And, and then trying to get through a show where you're supposed to be, like, happy and making people laugh. Like I just couldn't, I couldn't ah�
Jon: Was that only�
TJ: �take it anymore.
Jon: �at Second City or is it also here at uh, Improv Olympic?
TJ: It's all day, all night, everyday. I mean, sometimes it feels worse, you know, when- in moments of anxiety or tension it gets worse, but that's the same if that's at, at my apartment or on stage or here and, um- supposed to do the 'Subject' tonight. Today's already been pretty, pretty rotten as far as physically goes. So, I may have to watch another one and see if I can do it next week.
Jon: Is it burnout you think?
TJ: I don't think so, I think I've got a lot of shows in me, you know?
Jon: Yeah.
TJ: I mean, and I love doing it. So, if it is, I mean, I, I've shrouded it pretty well, you know, in, in my head somewhere. But, ah, I don't think I'm burnt out. I feel like I got, you know, a lot a, a lot a- yeah, I feel like a got a lot in the tank still.
Jon: Um�um, what things do you think that you as ah, improviser/performer/actor need to work on?
TJ: Ah�staying in the scene, um, being in true service to my partner, again um, supporting before, before you have- before try to figure it out. Um, taking chances again, not being afraid to be unpopular or unliked within a scene or a show, um�big picture awareness, more awareness of what everyone else is doing throughout the piece. That would be the, those would be he first couple I can think of the top.
Jon: I, I recently just gotten over the, the fear of having everyone hate me.
TJ: Yeah. [laughs]
Jon: This, this whole thing. Like the first hour it was going on I was like, 'oh my God, I-' you know, the, the whole imagination of, of- the range that it could go on. Like people would shun me, I have, I have a show this Sunday and people would start- boo me off stage, you know?
TJ: Make no mistake about it, I still hate you Jon.
Jon: Okay.
TJ: Make no mistake about that. [laughs]
Jon: Um, or that Charna would hear it- like 'this guy is horrible. It's okay TJ, I'm, I'm making sure that he'll never do improv here in Chicago again.'
TJ: Thank you for doing that Jon. [I laugh] Thank you for taking that chance, man. [TJ laughs]
Jon: I don't know if it was bold or crazy [TJ laughs] or the, the biggest sap that- to, to ah, partake in that whole thing.
TJ: No, I uh, uh- no, you're not a sap. It, it was just, it was a fun thing.
Jon: [laugh] I still can't believe that it, that it was me that did it. [TJ laughs] I- 'cause we're both, like, such nice people. [both laugh]
TJ: 'Jon! Have you gone crazy? What the fuck is going on?'
Jon: My friend, my friend Dayna was- thought maybe I was depressed or something like that.
TJ: [laughs] And, so you lash out at me? [both laugh] 'So much I've got to give a shot at TJ.' [both laugh]
Jon: Yeah, sometimes I, I've had to fight fear- or not fight the fear, fight the um, the impulse to on there, like, 'Yeah, so ah, I virtually killed my, ah, my reputation,' [and] all this other stuff. [TJ laughs] Um, but yeah. So, I just keep remembering that the first time we talked about it, it was very funny.
TJ: It is, it still is. [I laugh] It still is.
Jon: Ah, um�so you teach here at Improv Olympic.
TJ: True.
Jon: Uh, do you still do [levels] 1 and 5 or-?
TJ: Ah, this semester I'm not but that, that's, that's- normally I do have 1 and 5. I think they had, like, an extra [level] 5 this time or something like that so I ended up with two 5's this time.
Jon: What do you love about teaching [level] 1?
TJ: Level 1? Oh, I get 'em fresh, before they've been corrupted by being over taught already.
Jon: I've- I'd already been over taught when I came here though.
TJ: Yeah? [laughs] Well then I get to deprogram you. Um�that people are new, that they ah, that they might be scared that, you know, in that, that that's a great thing to try and uh, it's a great opportunity to try to help them through that and, if I can, encourage the love for improv more than the successful execution of the skill, and they'll want to follow it for the�
Jon: Right.
TJ: You know, they�ll, they'll want- the students will want to uh, pursue it on their own, you know, of their own energy and stuff like that. And it seems, like, it's easiest early on to encourage, like, the love of the possibilities that, that kind of performing hold than later on when, maybe, someone's already being jaded or, you know, or something that it might be too late at that point to say like, 'look at all this- all that this work can do,' you know, 'look at how, how much it can hold.' Um, so that's why I love- I- I like [level] 1. When I was an RA I asked for, like, freshman floors and stuff.
Jon: Oh really?
TJ: Not for the same reason. I think I was just, I was still at that time, pretty much, in tune with feeling like, a fish out of water or new or like, 'I'm not going to fit in here.' Like, that school was the, you know, the size of, like, my neighborhood and the five neighborhoods around it, you know?
Jon: Right.
TJ: It was really easy coming from a small high school, um, to ah, a large institution, corporation just about, to feel like, just kind of, just a number and, you know, in the system.
Jon: Um�how do you deal with students who ah, think their "all that" or their- just go crazy or just somehow, they just look like they just don't- self aware of, of what they are doing?
TJ: I try on the first day to ah, to tell folks that, like, I need, I need to keep this stage a safe place for people to play. And that, if they do think, like, that they're "all that" usually it's because, like, their friends laugh at joke about bitches, you know, and uh, or making fun of, like, a gay lisp and stuff like that. So, most of that I try to dispel that very first day. But what, what gets that across is that, is not so much me saying it as much as when they, when or if they do that, that the class just doesn't seem to be all that amused by it, you, you know? So, usually there's- usually their fellow students are, are giving them, you know, feedback enough so that they get it. And then you watch someone go out and just do a great, smart, invested relationship scene and you hear the reaction that that gets, you know, and that's so much better than, like, making a joke or, you know, or that kind of stuff.
Jon: Right.
TJ: So usually it happens from their own- from their peers.
Jon: Um�I also had you in level 5.
TJ: True.
Jon: Um, what do you like about level 5? 'Cause you're basically teaching people different forms of improv.
TJ: Yeah, it doesn't- I don't flat out enjoy, like, level 5 as much as from a teaching stand point, 'cause I don't really feel like I'm, I'm instructing personally as much. It's more the teaching of a form.
Jon: Right.
TJ: So, um�I love watching the caliber of play much more. It's more, you know, I get the chance to be an- a really entertained audience member�
Jon: That's true.
TJ: �more. Just the, the people are just good, you know.
Jon: They've gone through four levels to get-
TJ: Yeah. You know, and you get, you- they're going to be on teams or are already and, you know, they're good player. Um, but my, my favorite is, is the first day, when you do, like, skills, you know, just do scene work and stuff. Um�or when, you know, how like, you have people bring in an idea, um, it's fun to watch those things take off.
Jon: [overlapping beginning of next line] Yeah, those were really fun.
TJ: Watch someone, like, see their idea turn into a show and, and ah, how invested they are in it and excited about it, you know.
Jon: It was really good. It was a lot of fun. Still remember a lot of the, the forms that we did.
TJ: There's some good ones.
Jon: Yeah.
TJ: There, there always are. Every single, every single session there's, you know, three, four, five really, really cool um, ex- exploratory ideas put out there, you know.
Jon: Um, I think coming in February you're doing a two-man thing with a�
TJ: Yeah.
Jon: is it- who is it, doing with?
TJ: It's, it's supposed to- Dave Pasquesi. Um�I, I left him and E-mail the other day. I don't know if I got my wires crossed, I guess he was thinking it's- originally supposed to be in January and, um, and I, for some reason, thought it was February 'cause I thought we had to put it off. He's on- he's doing ah, "Glen Garry, Glen Ross" at the Steppenwolf right now.
Jon: Oh, okay.
TJ: Which ah, is intense man. Um�so hopefully it's still on. If not, then I told him, you know, whenever he is- whenever he is ready again, um, then, you know, we're ready. I know- I know Charna's excited about it. Kevin Dorff was gonna come in for, like, week three, and, and do it with us. And uh, so, yeah, it's a fella named Dave Pasquesi, a Second City alum and just a major league, like ah�fantastic actor and improviser and, you know, just a top notch talent in every way, shape and form.
Jon: Um, very good�uh�basically most of what I wanted to talk about is done, so [TJ laughs] just keep on doing whatever we can do or something. Um�
TJ: I love the Red Sox.
Jon: Do you?
TJ: Know that.
Jon: Oh�that reminds me ah, is it true that you were a pitcher for awhile- did baseball?
TJ: Yeah, I mean, I was- I was ah, a decent younger player; wasn't like I would ever be like�
Jon: Major League?
TJ: Yeah, I wasn't like, that- that good. Um, but I was pretty good. Um, I played up to, like, American Legion ball. And uh�I would've tried to play in college if, if we had a ah, a baseball team, but Syracuse, for some reason, didn't. I was a better, like, center fielder than I was a pitcher but I did, I did pitch as well.
Jon: Is, is um- do you do any other sports at all?
TJ: Um�in high school I was ah- I played�um, varsity basketball, which was kind of a joke 'cause I was, I was bad. I was, like, the thirteenth player and so, [laughs] they, they were, like- the swing kids from the, from the J.V. who were up- who were going in before me, 'cause, like, they might actually have a chance of getting better in the future.
Jon: [laugh] Yeah.
TJ: [laugh] Uh, and I played uh, I was a goaltender in soccer.
Jon: Very cool.
TJ: Yeah. My, like, my pinkies are screwed and will always be screwed [bends his pinkie back in an unnatural position].
Jon: Oh my God.
TJ: Just getting them jammed, daily, and never really having a chance to, to unjam.
Jon: [tiny laugh] Yeah, I did ah, I did sports for- a couple of times. Although the- what your basketball story reminded me of, um, I did basketball in, in middle school, but not on any type of team in the middle school. They had um, they like- it was actually in Schaumburg. They had the SAA, which is, um, um, Schaumburg Athletic Association.
TJ: Uh huh.
Jon: And uh, you know, anybody who tried out got on�
TJ: Uh huh.
Jon: �and I, I was on this team�and [laugh] we were, for one year undefeated, but by not any help by me at all. [both laugh] You know? Um�but everyone, especially all the parents loved it when I was out there 'cause I gave it everything, you know?
TJ: Yeah.
Jon: Um, and, and maybe three months would go by and make one- and I'd make one- a shot�
TJ: Uh huh.
Jon: �actually make two points.
TJ: Yep.
Jon: [laughs] The parents were, like, standing up and cheering, [TJ laughs] like, like I'd just- won the game winner.
TJ: Yeah. It's almost more fun when you're not so good, even if the team's not so good, like- 'cause we had, we had a good soccer team and we, you know, go, like, to the West- we�d go to the Western Mass tournaments and, um, we made it to, like, I think like the state semis one year. But, they were- that was, was so tense. And like, we were supposed to be good, we were supposed to win and then if you didn't then it was huge disappointment. But like, on the basketball team, we were kind of mediocre team, I was terrible, so like anything good that happened was, was like, you know, great news, you know?
Jon: Um, that kind of carries over to, um, improv when you're first starting out. You know, you- no one really knows how good you are and, and you have a good show and you feel real good about yourself. But, I guess, as far as more and more you go on, the expectation of doing good work is there and even if you have a mediocre show it feels like crap.
TJ: Yeah. Well, it�s, I mean, it's great that, you know, you have to, you have to raise the, the bar yourself all the time. They, they would say, like, to them- Joe DiMaggio- and I hate the Yankees, I hate the Yankees, but this was a good thing that he said. [I laugh] He was like, ah- it was like a game that was pretty much in the bag and a season that they, like, no one was going to catch them for the pennant and everything. And so there was a shot to, like, right-center and he went out, diving or ran into the wall or something, and Joe D. made everything look easy so if he had to dive or hit a wall it was- he had to do it. And so, I think a sports writer asked him afterwards, you know, like why, you know, in, in a game that doesn't mean anything in a season that's pretty much, pretty much over, why would you ah, why would you do that? And he said, 'there may be someone in the stands who's never seen me play before.'
Jon: Yeah, I heard that.
TJ: And that is so impressive to me, you know? That is like, that's where it is, you know? Um�and I think you said it your- you said like, if you have a good show and you feel good afterwards, I think it's important, especially when you're starting out, to make sure you treat the good shows and the bad shows the same.
Jon: Right.
TJ: So if you get really down after a bad show or you feel cruddy, make sure you give yourself the freedom to feel good after a good show. Or if you blow off a bad show, like 'ah, whatever, you know, it's just improv,' well then, you should blow off a good show as well.
Jon: Right.
TJ: And you know, and shake that one off to the same degree.
Jon: I see what you mean.
TJ: You know what I mean? 'Cause it's no, it's of no service to you to get really down after the bad ones and blow off the good ones or blow off the bad ones and celebrate after the good ones. Either way, like, you, you're, you're building unevenly.
Jon: Right. Do you like music?
TJ: I do.
Jon: Uh�what kind of music do you like?
TJ: Um�I'll listen to just about anything. It's a real, kind of potpourri as the ah�in the ah, the ah, disco round. Um, I like Van Morrison, he's my favorite, my favorite, like, singular artist, you know, it's Van Morrison. Um, well I'll, I'll listen to anything. I'm trying to think of what's in the thing�Outkast is in there right now, Van Morrison Astral Weeks, Emily uh, Emily Cunningham's husband, Wes�
Jon: [at the same time] Wes.
TJ: �yeah, Wesley's new album, Pollyanna. Um�I think there's, like, some drum and bass thing in there and uh�I don't know, Joni Mitchell or something- It's really, it's a real-
Jon: Eclectic?
TJ: Yeah.
Jon: I know that in level one you, one day, put in music and had us ah, listen to it and then do a scene. Uh�do you want to expound on that at all?
TJ: Um, sure. Um�
Jon: I- because I thought that was really fun.
TJ: Yeah, it's, it's, like, the fun is a cool byproduct, but what it accomplishes, I hope, is that you start even- that was, like, usually week seven I think I do that- 'cause even after, like, six weeks of performing you will probably exhibit certain pattern of performance. You'll, you'll usually start slow or you'll, more often than not, be high status or, you know, you'll play a similar- I pretty narrow range. And that if you can get someone to just give- sign over to the music, give responsibility to it, then it's easier to have someone break out of their comfort zone than, um, like, giving them music and then saying, like, 'Jon, why don't you ah, do something you haven't done before?' and then all the sudden, you're now, like, 'oh, what haven't I done?'
Jon: 'What haven't I done before?'
TJ: 'I haven't been a crab.' You know, like, um, but if you say like, 'Jon, just feel this music, feel free, let your body go, let it move in a different way, allow it to create a point of view for you, if you can, and as soon as I bring the music just- out then, just bring that person in to the, in to the scene. And all of the sudden you're making decisions or moving different than you were but you didn't have to take responsibility for it. You can say, like, 'well, the music made me do it.'
Jon: Right.
TJ: And uh, and then you can, just, feel free to enjoy it.
Jon: Right. Um�so many different things I can talk about but so little time. Um�how did you ah�I don't know if I should go there. Um�[TJ laughs] 'Cause I don't want to get into your personal life. This, 'cause this- I'll just, just say- I won't, won't ask a question but I'll just say there's a lot of discussion, mostly because the guys on IC are, are lonely guys who can't get a date or they're so much immersed in improv that-
TJ: You're not making friends right now, buddy. [laughs] You're again making yourself unpopular. [both laugh] When you type that up.
Jon: Well they all know that- there's a lot of self-hatred on the IC.
TJ: Wanna name them th- wanna name them individually? [both laugh] Ah, O'Toole�[both laugh]
Jon: Um�ah, just the fact that, you know, dating improvisers, dating non-improvisers, it's like, if they're- it's like people were different or, you know, 'cause they do [different] stuff and how people that, uh�in the history of improv there's been improviser couples and how well they've done, like, Stephanie Weir, [and] Bob Dassie and�and you and Abby, uh�so�um, so. I don't know why I just talked about that.
TJ: They- yeah, I mean, the ah- a lot of the times, the fact that you're both improvisers is just the ah, is just, like, the way you met. Or like, when, you know, Stephanie and Abby, um, Mary Toleman and if anyone remembers Brian Stack and Miriam Tolan, you know, most of those people are probably, you know- is that, like, they're, they're quality people, you know?
Jon: Yeah.
TJ: And, it, it be- almost be like, 'well, we worked in the same office,' but there's no, like, 'Really? Office worker couples, huh?'
Jon: Yeah.
TJ: 'What an interesting phenomenon.' You know. She's just a great, a great, person and, you know, and I- lucky enough to be- meet, meet her through improv. Jon: Yeah, that's very apt analogy of- that [for] a lot of people improv is their, their "work." And as far as that, um- When did you first- when did, when did you really know that you wanted to do improv for your life?
TJ: Um well the, the first time I saw a show at Second City�um, I had the distinct feeling that if I didn't try and do that, that I never, that I'd never truly be happy. Like, that I had to take my best shot at, at trying to gain that as a lifestyle.
Jon: Right.
TJ: So I guess it was pretty much the first time I saw that sort of live performance, you know, realized that I was gonna�
Jon: Um, now that you're done at Second City and that you're being paid for being a teacher here, ah, do you see yourself having to, like, pick up a day job or something like that?
TJ: Uh, well, hopefully I'll still be working at Second City in some capacity be it like interim directing or, you know, or um, sometimes they'll have, you know, like, a special show for such and such an occasion. They�ll do, like, a week down- theater on the lake and maybe I can, like, direct one of those. Um, I'd like- try and teach over there in the conservatory again.
Jon: Okay.
TJ: Um�but like, thankfully I think between teaching and either directing here or over there, you know, or ah, coaching that I'll- I sh- I- hopefully will be able to cobble together my rent money and stuff.
Jon: Right.
TJ: You know, little bit here, little bit there, little bit there, and then, if you get, you know, get lucky enough to get ah, a commercial here of there, then that can, that can certainly help a month right there.
Jon: Yeah. The Lotto commercial was really funny. Just, this- you're just, your-
TJ: They really dropped two pianos.
Jon: Real[ly]- they had to do two takes?
TJ: Ukrainian village, on the sidewalk. They dropped the first piano and they Polarioded it, like- and then had these two guys- had to pick up, like, every piece of it.
Jon: Oh my God.
TJ: And they dropped a second piano, Polarioded that one, decided that they liked the way the first one looked better so they picked up the entire second piano and reassembled, like, where everything was from the first piano.
Jon: Oh my-
TJ: Had to put it back down on the ground where all the little keys were and all of the�
Jon: That�s so weird.
TJ: It was cool as hell, like, watching them. It was a forty-foot crane and they, they drew the ah, they drew the piano- the piano up and just let her go. Just released it. It was really cool.
Jon: Awesome. [laughs]
TJ: Yeah. It was, like- little kiddie, like, giddy- like, when you see a crane with a wrecking ball. [makes a �goofy� or �doofus� type of laugh]
Jon: Yeah. Um, I think that�s about it �cause you probably have to teach pretty soon.
TJ: I teach at four. Is it about?
Jon: Uh, yeah. About seven minutes to four.
TJ: Okay.
Jon: Um, so, that...concludes my interview with TJ Jagodowski.
The End.
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