Interview

'Conversion is not mere name change'

Sadhumal Surendar Valasai is the President of the Karachi-based Scheduled Castes Federation of Pakistan. In an online interview with Yoginder Sikand, he discusses the work of his organisation and the problems of the Pakistani Dalits.

Q: Could you briefly introduce yourself and the work that you have been engaged in?
A: I am a journalist by profession, and probably the only accredited Dalit journalist all over Pakistan. My father migrated from a village in Sindh to a nearby small town to educate me because there was no school in the village. After completing the middle standard, I was sent to Diplo, the local tehsil headquarters, for matriculation. After this I moved to Karachi, where my uncle was a professor at the Sindh Muslim Science College, founded by Quaid-e-Azam Muhammad Ali Jinnah. Later, I enrolled at the University of Karachi for graduation, which I did not complete for a variety of reasons. Instead, I joined a new English daily Sindh Express as an apprentice in 1990 and then worked for other dailies like The Muslim, Balochistan Times and now with Financial Post in Karachi. I took up the profession of journalism in order to serve the cause of Pakistani Dalits who have no voice to raise their concerns and problems with the government and the wider society.
Q: What are the aims and objectives of the Scheduled Castes Federation of Pakistan (SCFP)?
A: The SCFP is a non-political organisation which works as a forum to raise issues concerning the Scheduled Castes of Pakistan. Its steering committee comprises of Bherulal Balani, a politician and ex-member of Provincial Assembly of Sindh (1997-99), Arjundas, a senior Dalit lawyer, and myself. We see the SCFP as working to address the manifold problems of the Pakistani Dalits in accordance with the vision of Qaid-e-Azam Mohammad Ali Jinnah, the founder of nation, who had appointed a Scheduled Castes politician from East Pakistan as Pakistan's first Minister of Law and Parliamentary Affairs in Pakistan.
On August 15, 1944, the Qaid-e-Azam held a Press Conference in which he declared: "I wish to say a word to make the position of the Muslim League clear. As far as the Scheduled Castes and other minorities are concerned their just claims will have to be met before any complete settlement is achieved. I can tell my friends of the Scheduled Castes that at no time have I overlooked their interests and position and I may claim that in the past I have done all I could to help them, and I shall always stand for their protection and safeguard in any future scheme of constitution for I think that the wrongs and injustices inflicted on them for centuries should not be allowed to continue under any civilised form of government."
The SCFP is working to realise that aim of the Qaid-e-Azam.
Q: Which are the main Scheduled Caste groups in Pakistan? Where are they found and what are their economic, educational, social and political conditions like?
A: The largest Dalit groups in Pakistan are the Meghwals, Bhils, Kolhis, Oads, and Bagdis, and they mainly live in rural Sindh and southern Punjab. The majority of them are landless peasants or labourers. They are the poorest of the poor, and are largely illiterate. There is no unity among the different Dalit castes in Pakistan. In fact, they have practically no social or political relations with each other.
Q: Are the Dalits considered as Hindus in Pakistan in law or are they considered a separate community?
A: The Scheduled Castes are clubbed together with Hindus as "Hindus and Scheduled Castes" in the Constitution. This, however, is clearly against the vision of the Qaid-e-Azam. The people who are registered in the Pakistani census as Hindus are overwhelmingly Scheduled Castes. In the Quaid's view a religion that treats millions of people as untouchables and considers a 'low' caste person as evil, and which discourages inter-dining and inter-marriage must be described by some adjective other than 'tolerant'. The treatment of the Dalits by caste Hindus in Pakistan is no different from that of their Indian 'brothers', that is to say they still treat the Dalits with contempt and subject them to considerable social discrimination.
So, there is no reason why the Dalits should be included as 'Hindus' in law. Unfortunately, however, in Pakistan (as in India), the government has clubbed together the Scheduled Castes along with Hindus as a single 'Hindu' community. The clubbing together of the Scheduled Castes with caste Hindus is merely aimed at depriving the Dalits of the political and social rights which the Quaid-e-Azam had envisioned for them. Because of this, almost all the parliamentary and state assembly seats allocated to the 'Hindus' have been occupied by individuals from the miniscule 'upper' caste Hindu community, although almost 70 per cent of the people constitutionally identified as "Hindu & Scheduled Castes" are Scheduled Castes. Take, for instance, the case of Sindh, which has the highest proportion of non-Muslims in the country. Of the nine seats reserved for minorities in Sindh 7 went to caste Hindus, one to Christians and only one to the Scheduled Castes in the 2002 General Election. The situation is roughly the same in the National Assembly as well. The Pakistani Dalits do not have a strong and visible political leadership, and nor do they have effective people's organisations of their own.
Q: Are there any reservations for Dalits in government jobs in Pakistan?
A: There was a 6 per cent job reservation for the Scheduled Castes in Pakistan from 1956 till 1998. Though only partially implemented in actual practice, this provision was removed in 1998 by the Nawaz Sharif government with the help of two Dalit members of the National Assembly, Dr. Khatumal Meghwal and Kirshan Bheel. As a result of this, currently there is no separate reserved quota in government services for the Scheduled Castes. However, since the coming to power by President Pervez Musharraf, the Federal and Sindh Public Service Commissions have been allocating more seats, based on merit, to the Dalits, and several educated Dalit youths have now been appointed to good government jobs.
Q: You have recently launched an online campaign on the Internet to highlight the problems of the Pakistani Dalits. Could you tell us more about it?
A: Since 1990 I have been writing letters to the Government of Pakistan to highlight the plight of the Dalits in the country. Some of these letters brought in small results, but by and large the government ignored them. With the advent of Internet, I thought to use it for creating awareness among the Pakistani civil society about the plight of Dalits in Pakistan. I understand that majority of the people of Pakistan don't know about the Dalits in the country, what to talk about their plight!
Through the petition we want to impress upon the government and people of Pakistan that a truly Islamic society would be an egalitarian one, a society where there would be no discrimination. In such an ideal society there would be no oppression of the Dalits. So, we are stressing through our petition that if Pakistan is to really become a truly Islamic society the problems and oppression of the Dalits must be seriously addressed. We will be submitting the petition, along with the signatures we are collecting, to President General Pervez Musharraf and Prime Minister Mir Zafarullah Jamali on August 14, 2004.
Q: How, if at all, has the Dalit liberation movement in India impacted on the Dalits in Pakistan?
A: The Indian Dalit movement has had very little impact on the Pakistani Dalits. Most Pakistani Scheduled Castes don't even know that they are now identified as Dalits the world over. Most of them have never heard of Dr. Ambedkar. Babasaheb's writings are not available in Pakistan.
Q: Are any Islamic, Buddhist or Christian missionary organisations working among the Pakistani Dalits?
A: A few Christian missionaries are working in the Thar desert, where several Kolhi families have converted to Christianity. Buddhists are not visible on the scene. There is practically no organised activity to convert SCs to Islam. Only sporadic conversions of peasants in small numbers are reported sometimes.
Q: What do you feel about religious conversion [to Islam, Buddhism or Christianity] as a solution to the plight of the Dalits, as is advocated by many Indian Dalits?
A: I believe that conversions to liberal religions should be en masse because individual conversion will only add to the sufferings of the converts and their families. I believe that every human has to satisfy his spiritual appetite. Conversions should not simply be just a change of name.

www.kashmirimages.info February 06, 2004