OMER’S PERSONAL
DEBATES
IN THE NAME OF ALLAH THE MOST GRACIOUS THE MOST MERCIFUL
"Invite (all) to the Way of thy Lord with wisdom
and beautiful preaching; and argue with them in ways that are best and most
gracious: for thy Lord knoweth best, who have strayed from His Path, and who
receive guidance. "
Quran surat Anahl 125
OMER’S FIRST
REPLAY
Hi,thanks for your replay.
To come to our point,i think i am not
missing an important topic which is about the so said devinity of Jesus.But
before getting to that topic i beleive its better to have some discussion on
the topic i chose.And for sure all the disagreement b/n muslims &
christians lie upon that topic.
Any way,i want to answer all your
questions & your accusses briefly.First you tried to accuse muslims of
knowing nothing about jesus's nature,but I see u so confused thinking that muslims simply think that
Christians belief is inconsistent with 1+1+1=3.Infact I know all what
Christians believe about trinity & jesus,so I wanna give you some evidences
from the bible that denies divinity of jesus.Look what the gosple narrated of
jesus replaying to the people,he said in john 18:20 “I have spoken
openly to the world," Jesus replied. "I always taught in
synagogues or at the temple, where all the Jews come together. I said
nothing in secret. Why question me? Ask those who heard me. Surely they
know what I said. “,if you as a Christian have to accept this
word then you have to expect at least a
verse in a bible saying that “jesus said I am god”.Think this can be a brief
example,many times when the verse saying”my father is greater than I” (John 14:28) is quoted to Christians
they simply say that at that moment jesus left his divinity(godness) for a
while & was acting as a weak man.But unfortunately they are producing a
proof against themselves.Look if Jesus(for the sake of debate say that jesus is alpha & omega) in his
eternal life once left his godness even for a second while his father never
& ever left his godness,how can this two persons be equal?ok i can give you
many evidences but for now I think this is enough.And it will be clear later
that who have the true knowledge of the nature of Jesus.
Secondly you talked about the
crucification,& you gave me 2 links I am sorry for I was unable to reach
the mostmerciful link.But as I visited the geocite link I got no problem in
it.Just I saw there the writer agreeing with almost all the translation of the
holyquran but that of Dr. Muhammad Taqiuddeen al-Hilaalee, and Dr.
Muhammad Muhsin Khan.But the writer in the website has missed one point which
made you fall in his opinion.Look the translation made by Dr. Muhammad
Taqiuddeen al-Hilaalee and Dr. Muhammad Muhsin Khan is not only translation its
also interpretation to the meaning,have a look at its cover please it says “Interpretation
of the Meaning of The Noble Qur.aan in the English Language” So they have to
explain the verse.I hope you have understood me.About the word “SHUBIHA” the verse is clear it says”we qowlehum ina qetelna
mesih eissa ibn meryem ressullallah
wemaqeteluhu wemaselebuhu welakin
shubiha lehum “ this clearly tells us that the jews said that they have killed ibn meryem then Allah rejected
it by saying “welakin” it means”but” & this indicates rejection af Allah to
what they said & said “shubiha lehum” means “it appeared to them”.Look here
I don’t think there is a problem in the translation & interpretation of the
holy quran I quoted above,cos they interpreted the “it appeared to them” as
since other person was crucified instead of him it appeared to them so.Ok lets
have a look what the bible narrates.
1 -Jesus said in john 8:29”The one who sent me is
with me; he has not left me alone, for I always do what pleases him.
Even as he spoke, many put their faith in him” it means that his father never forsakes him.
2-Jesus many times told that
his father always hears his prayer .And he told his apostles that no
prayer with faith is rejected by his God.
3-Jesus while he was about to be cought up he prayed & said” “Father,
if you are willing, take this cup from me; yet not my will, but yours be done.” (Luke 22:42)
then dear friend lets analize the three points above.can we say
the one on the cross saying “My God, my God, why have you forsaken
me?” (Matthew
27:46) Jesus,” while Jesus said that his father his father has not left
him alone(never forsakes him)(no-1)?
Any way what we understand from this is what Allah said in his book
quran “shubiha lehom” or “it appeared to them”,cos Jesus told us that his
prayer is always answered it means that the prayer he prayed saying “’ is also
answered.And he told us that his father never forsakes him but the one on the
cross said that his father forsook him,so the one on the cross has to be other
person..The person while he was crucified for doing no crime he complaind on
his father(god) & said ““My God, my God, why have you forsaken
me?”
(Matthew 27:46).”.
Not only this the quran clearly tells
us further.Allah said in that same verse “and those who
differ therein are full of doubts. They have no (certain) knowledge, they
follow nothing but conjecture. For surely; they killed him not [i.e. 'Iesa
(Jesus), son of Maryam (Mary)]:” and this is clearly seen in the
bible itself. We see the 4 gosples contradicting themselves concerning the
narration,this is due to their absence in the act as Mathew witnessed saying “Then all the disciples
deserted him and fled.”mathew 26:55. we will discuss it
other time inshaalah.
About the verses 3:40 & 3:47,I don’t see any problem in them.They
are clear,they talk about the birth of John & Jesus as a result of devine
command “BE”.Sorry I havnt understand whats your problem in the verses,but I
ask you to tell me clearly.
I see you in doubt about any one would
say the gospels represent “GODS WORD”,but you have to admit that you are
contradicting paul who said : "All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for
teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness, (2 Timothy 3:16)" .I also want
to tell you that you have misunderstood the verse in the holy quran
4;171,although in this verse its said that Jesus is word of god it doesn’t mean
that its only jesus who is word of god.All we are word of god,all whats created
by the devine command “BE” is word of god.Jesus is a result of “BE”,look what
is said in (Revelation 3:14, also see 1 Corinthians
8:6 and Colossians 1:15) .here Jesus is said
as “the beginning of God’s creation,here its clearly
written that Jesus is as all creatures,it means he is as all creatures made by
“BE”.its due to so that he is called “word of god”.
No one has ever said that God only speaks
Arabic.I don’t know whether you were joking or what.How can we muslims say that
God speaks only Arabic?Allah said "We have made it a Qur'an in Arabic,
that ye may be able to understand (and learn wisdom). (The Noble Quran, 43:3)" Allah sent messengers
only by the language of their people,all messengers were conveying their
message only in their peoples’ language.So I don’t think this is strange. Also,
another reason why Allah Almighty sent down the Noble Quran in Arabic is that
Prophet Muhammad peace be upon him was an Arab and lived among Arabs. The Noble
Revelations had to be sent down in a human language. The Arabic language was
chosen because of the Arabic speaking pagans needed help to be brought from
darkness into light. It was not revealed to make the Noble Quran only for
Arabs.
And
I don’t deny that any language In this world borrows something from other
language, no language is static.But look the quran is still alive with all its
unique literature & style.This can be great challenge to the bible that the
biblical original languages are about to perish & only few persons could
understand it.But Arabic is spoken all over the world & still surviving language.
But
look how ALLah challenged the arab pagans(know that the arabs were clever in
literature specially poetery),he said Noble Verse 2:23 "And if ye are in doubt as to what We
have revealed from time to time to Our servant, then produce a Sura like
there unto; and call your witnesses or helpers (If there are any) besides
God, if your (doubts) are true."
Noble Verse 17:88
"Say:
'If the whole of mankind and Jinns were to gather together to produce the
like of this Qur'an, they could not produce the like thereof, even if they
backed up each other with help and support.'" .But we
haven’t come across a single Arab or foreign who has ever produced what Allah
asked.Further more the quran challenges man by saying in surat alhijr 9. “Verily We: It is
We Who have sent down the Dhikr (i.e. the Qur'ân) and surely, We will guard it
(from corruption) “ You witness it your self that the quran has
never get ultered or changed even a single word in it through out 1400
years.But you see the bible changing always.Can’t this be a challenge dear
friend?
At last you told me to disuss on the
existence of God,but I don’t think this is so important to us(cos both of us
agree that God exists),better if we can discuss on the nature of our God.
As a conclusion I want to quote some thing
concerning the bible.I believe that the bible contains God’s word & human’s
word.I don’t think its 100% word of God.I can proof this to you.As an eg.
Luke1:1 saying ” Many have undertaken
to draw up an account of the things that have been fulfilled among us, just as they
were handed down to us by those who from the first were eyewitnesses and
servants of the word. Therefore, since I myself have carefully investigated
everything from the beginning, it seemed good also to me to write an orderly
account for you, most excellent Theophilus, so that you may know the certainty
of the things you have been taught.” clearly tells us
that he was’t inspired but he got his record from other sources.And we get the bible with many contradictions.You
can have this links
http://www.answering-christianity.com/criticism.htm ra.htm
http://www.answering-christianity.com/cont
http://www.answering-christianity.com/bible-speak.htm
http://sultan.org/articles/biblecon.txt
this
so dear friend I hope you have understood all what I said.
“Say: “O people of the Book (Christians
and Jews)! Come to a word that is just between us and you: that we shall
worship none but God, and that we shall associate no partners with Him, and
that none of us shall take others as lords beside God.” (Quran, 3:64)
Waiting ur replay
Omer