OMER’S PERSONAL DEBATES

 

IN THE NAME OF ALLAH THE MOST GRACIOUS THE MOST MERCIFUL

 

"Invite (all) to the Way of thy Lord with wisdom and beautiful preaching; and argue with them in ways that are best and most gracious: for thy Lord knoweth best, who have strayed from His Path, and who receive guidance. "

Quran surat Anahl 125

 

JUSTIN’S FIRST REPLAY

Hi, Omer.

Thank you very much for your message and for accepting my offer. I hope, too, that ours is going to be a peaceful debate. I never offend anyone while debating and I am a supporter of civil and mutually enlightening exchanges of ideas.

I thought that an e-mail debate would be perfect, because all the conversations that are had in chatrooms are short-lived and all the words that are spoken are wasted and easily forgotten.

I'm not bothered by the fact you are a Moslem and I am aware that you'll be defending your opinions and expressing your point of view according to your faith. Obviously, I'm going to be countering your dogmatic claims most of the times. I tend to be skeptical about just anything. I also try to avoid defending dogmas.

In a way, I'm sorry you have decided to avoid the topic of Christ's divinity. I think you're missing a big opportunity of knowing what Christianity is: in fact, I think that Islām and the Qur'ān mostly misrepresent Christianity, Judaism and polytheism in general. You'd be surprised to know how much diversified Christianity is on the topic of Christ's "divine nature". As a Moslem, you probably don't even have a clue about the problem with Jesus' nature (or, rather, natures). Also, you probably blithely ignore what the word "person" means when used about the Trinity in a theological context. Most Moslems think that since 1+1+1=3, they have explained the inconsistency of Chrtistian theology. Unfortunately, the problem is not arithmetic and the Christians are not so stupid. Well, it's your choice and, in my opinion, your loss.

As for the crucifiction, the Qur'ān itself is unclear, since the verse in your Holy Script may read: "they did not crucify him, but something like that" or "they did not crucify him, but someone like him" according to how you interpret the word "shubbiha" in Qr 4:157. Freely distributed Qur'āns from Saudi Arabia contain the wrong translation, which is actually an overly free interpretation. Here are two links you might like to click on and see for yourself:

http://www.mostmerciful.com/substitution.htm

http://www.geocities.com/abusamad/substi.html .

My opinion is that all Moslems should take the pain to read the Qur'ān for themselves and realize how many unclear passages are contained in it. I wonder if any Malays, Pakistanis or Turks bother about that. I wonder how many new converts to Islam have ever gone through the notes of a scientific translation. I think too few, because rigorous translations are published only in the West, probably. I have a German translation by Rudi Paret in which there are pages with constellations of question marks, because a clear translation of some words or sentences cannot be given and the translator was so honest as to admit to that. I hope I've made it clear to you what I mean by the difference between translation and interpretation.

There would be a lot to say about the Islamic dogma of the creation of Jesus, too, which is also contradicted by the Qur'ān where it speaks of a virginal birth (also see Qr 3:40 about Yahya and Qr 3:47 about 'Isa). Unfortunately, most Moslems do not understand Arabic and go with the ancient polemical anti-Christian flow. Many Moslems pride on the faultlessness of the Qur'ān, but I assume very few of them have ever really read that book because it's not necessary to be a theologian in order to see where the contradictions obscurities and mistakes are.

Now, our topic is about whether "God's Word" is the Bible or the Qur'ān. The Christians say that the Bible contains God's Word because it is divinely inspired Scripture. I think the same thing is stated by the Jews on the Tanakh (the Jewish Canon). The Gospels are actually only biographies of Jesus Christ and I very much doubt that anyone would say they represent "God's Word" to the letter. For Christians it is Jesus who IS the Word and the same concept is found in the Qur'ān (Qr 4:171).

The Qur'ān, instead, is believed to be "God's Word" by the Moslems. I frankly find such claim preposterous. First, I don't think God only speaks Arabic. Unless Allah only knows Arabic or was bestowing a special favour on Muhammad and his fellows who weren't familiar with any other language. But if there's a heavenly Qur'ān, which is the real Word of God, and it is not in Arabic then what the Moslems have is not the real Word of God, but some kind of rendition of it, a translation or interpretation is a human language which poorly renders justice to the original divine Book.

I believe if Allah had wanted to send a clear message to mankind he would have used a better language, like Greek, Aramaic, Latin, Persian or Sanscrit, all languages that had some literary background and some kind of linguistic normalization (well defined grammar rules). None of the above languages would have proved so obscure as the Qur'ān is and all of them used to have some international prestige. Arabic was not very well developed and lacked fundamental vocabulary: "dīn" is a persian word; "furqan" and "qur'an" are Aramaic borrowings (the former of which means "redemption" and not "criterion"). The Qur'ān isn't even written even in Classical Arabic, because Classical Arabic was standardized at a much later date than Muhammad's death. Koranic Arabic isn't even identifiable with a particular dialect, as far as I know. In fact the tradition goes that the book was hastily put together in

Obviously, there is one point that should be made clear beforehand: we're speaking of God's Word, but actually there should be some evidence of God's existence before debating about his Word. And similarly, why should God express himself by means of words and send books to mankind, as the Qur'ān reads? It's true that the Jews, the Christians, the Mandaeans also have prophets and so have the Zoroastrians. But what is prophethood?

I can identify three main basic points that should be discussed before we touch on the problem of whether God's Word is the Bible or the Qur'ān:

a) The existence of God.

b) The way God chooses to communicate with mankind.

c) Prophethood.

This is a long reply as you can see. You can take all the time you need to go through it.

Take care.

Sincerely,

Ennius/Justin.

 

 

                                        

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