THIS IS MY FINAL REPLY 
THE HOLY QUR'AN AND OUR HOLY TARIQAH--2
Date: Friday, March 02, 2001 3:10 PM
THIS IS MY FINAL REPLY
it seems to me that you are either SPIRITUALLY blind BY NATURE or simply
being stubborn. regardless, most of your questions have been answered at:
http://www.geocities.com/navali/Tariqah.htm
--------
<_4209211_> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> On Wed, 28 Feb 2001 13:57:08 -0700, "Navali" <[email protected]>
> wrote:
>
> >dear mr. _420_9_2_11_ aka qari faizullaah chitrali --
> >[420 -- charso biis -- nau se igyara -- 9 to 11]
>
NAVALI: is your name or pseudonym **ali [4209211]**? if not, why did you
choose the name "ALI"?
how come you did not show that name or COMBINATION thereof in your previous
posts? if so, why now? please answer this question HONESTLY -- BEARING ALLAH
AS YOUR WITNESS. WHY NOW?
011.005 Lo! now they fold up their breasts that they may hide (their
thoughts) from Him. At the very moment when they cover themselves with their
clothing, Allah knoweth that which they keep hidden and that which they
proclaim. Lo! He is Aware of what is in the breasts (of men).
027.074 Lo! thy Lord knoweth surely all that their bosoms hide, and all that
they proclaim.
------
now compare:
1. ali 4209211 writes: > On 12 Feb 2001 10:35:36 -0600, Gul Agha
<[email protected]> wrote: > >
2. <_4209211_> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> On Fri, 23 Feb 2001 15:05:11 -0700, "Navali" <[email protected]>
> wrote:
>
> >dear mr. _420_9_2_11_ aka qari faizullaah chitrali,
> No matter what we say or what we do, we are not worth the "jootee ki
> khack" (speck of dirt under the shoes) of hazrat Ali alaihim salam.
---
NAVALI: this is hypocrisy at its best! qari faizullah CHITRALI did the same
thing as did akbarally meherally.
you guys sure have a nice way of showing your respect to/for *ALI* and/or
ANY QUR'AN BASED CONCEPT which is a part and parcel of our tradition or
tariqah.
002.015 Allah (Himself) doth mock them, leaving them to wander blindly on in
their contumacy.
009.065 And if thou ask them (O Muhammad) they will say: We did but talk and
jest. Say: Was it at Allah and His revelations and His messenger that ye did
scoff?
-----> We look forward to your answers to the following observations and
> questions. These questions are being asked sincerely.
>
>
> >second, although you insist on looking at the Qur'anic context from a
> >different perspective -- for example, look at 3 - 4 verses before and
after > >a particular verse, etc., let me assure you that that's NOT THE ONLY WAY
TO > >GO ABOUT IT! and here's why.
>
> "Not the only way" implies which of these? Let us know so that we can
> in the future argue from that perspective:
----
NAVALI: here's the PROOF! now please keep your PERSONAL opinions to
yourself, if you disagree:
;>>
We always made sure that the source of our arguments
both pro and against, was always ayahs from the Qur'an.
;> Please direct us to the relevant ayahs in the Qur'an where Allah has
;> given the reason for "one single revelation instance"
;>>
NAVALI:
055.001 AR RAHMAAN --
1. ALR-RAHMANU
055.002 HATH MADE KNOWN THE QUR'AN --
2. AAALLAMA ALQUR-ANA
:
: : : : [note the interval] : : : :
:
[HEAVENLY CREATION]
055.003 HE HATH CREATED MAN.
055.004 HE HATH TAUGHT HIM UTTERANCE.
055.005 The sun and the moon are made punctual.
:
in other words, the Holy Qur'an was MADE KNOWN BEFORE THE CREATION!
NOW how, when and where did ar_Rahman REVEAL/make known the QUR'AN -- and more importantly to WHOM?
HOW LONG did this revelation TAKE OR LAST for?
WHAT WAS THIS MAN CREATED FROM?
-----
please note: He CREATED afterwards and not before making KNOWN the Qur'an.
compare 55:14,16 & 96:1-5.
[EARTHLY CREATION]
055.010 YUSUFALI: It is He Who has spread out the earth for (His) creatures: PICKTHAL: And the earth hath He appointed for (His) creatures, SHAKIR: And the earth, He has set it for living creatures; 10. Waal-arda wadaAAaha lil-anami -- 055.014 YUSUFALI: He created man from sounding clay like unto pottery, 055.015 YUSUFALI: And He created Jinns from fire free of smoke: 14. Khalaqa al-insana min salsalin kaalfakhkhari -- 15. Wakhalaqa aljanna min marijin min narin
----
having said that, PLEASE READ SLOWLY item by each item & each line by line:
074.052 Nay, but everyone of them desireth that he should be given open pages.
------
_P_O_N_D_E_R_
1. YATADABBAROONA ALQUR-ANA
--- VIS-A-VIS ---
2. LIYADDABBAROO AYATIHI
--- VIS-A-VIS ---
3. YADDABBAROO ALQAWLA
------
i. 004.082 Will they not then _P_O_N_D_E_R_
:
on the _Q_u_r_'a_n_ -- 82. Afala YATADABBAROONA ALQUR-ANA?
------
ii. 047.024 Will they then not _M_E_D_I_T_A_T_E_
:
ON THE QUR'AN-- 24. Afala YATADABBAROONA ALQUR-ANA am AAala quloobin
aqfaluha,
-----
iii. 023.068 Have they not _P_O_N_D_E_R_E_D
:
_ _T_H_E_ _W_O_R_D,_ 68. Afalam YADDABBAROO ALQAWLA
-----
iv. 038.029 (This is) a Scripture that We have REVEALED:
:
unto thee, full of blessing, that they may _P_O_N_D_E_R_
ITS _R_E_V_E_L_A_T_I_O_N-S---29. Kitabun anzalnahu ilayka mubarakun
LIYADDABBAROO AYATIHI waliyatathakkara oloo al-albabi,
----
1. YATADABBAROONA ALQUR-ANA
--- VIS-A-VIS ---
2. LIYADDABBAROO AYATIHI
--- VIS-A-VIS ---
3. YADDABBAROO ALQAWLA
---- VIS-A-VIS -----
4. THE TRUTH AND REMINDER,
5. & THE REASON THEREOF:
-----
when did Allah REVEAL this _W_O_R_D_-- QAWLA -- and how
long did its
revealtion take or last? here's the full context for your perusal.
023.068 Have they not _P_O_N_D_E_R_E_D
:
_ _T_H_E_ _W_O_R_D,
:
_ or hath that COME
:
unto them which CAME
:
not unto their fathers of old?
:
023.069 Or KNOW they not their _M_E_S_S_E_N_G_E_R,_
:
and so REJECT him?
:
68. AfalamYADDABBAROO ALQAWLA am jaahum
ma lam ya/ti abaahumu al-awwaleena 69. Am lam
yaAArifoo rasoolahum fahum lahu munkiroona
023.070 Or say they: There is a madness in him ? Nay, but HE
_B_R_I_N_G_E_T_H
:
them the TRUTH; and most of them are haters of the
TRUTH.
023.071 And if the TRUTH had followed their desires, verily the heavens and
the earth and whosoever is therein had been corrupted. Nay, We have BROGUTH
:
: them their REMINDER, but from their Reminder they now turn away. 023.090
Nay, but We have BROUGHT
:
them the TRUTH, and lo! they are liars.
-----
037.037 Nay, but HE BROUGHT
: THE TRUTH, and he confirmed those sent (before him).
------
027.079 Therefor (O Muhammad) put thy trust in Allah, for thou art:
:
ON the TRUTH MANIFEST--HAQQIL MUBIIN.
-----
>
> 1. More ways to go about and all different ways are correct OR
> 2. More ways to go about but only one way is the correct way to go
>
> Also since you advise not to look at 3-4 verses before or after a
> particular verse, does that mean individual verse of Qur'an should be
> considered independent ALWAYS. Or is it sometimes independent and
> sometimes connected with adjacent verses. The answer to this question
> is of the utmost importance. We need this clarification, so that in
> our next response we can present arguments based on that assumption.
>
> >as you know, the Holy Qur'an was revealed in a single instance as well,
in
> >one Blessed Night, during the month of Ramadan and piecemeal during the
Holy. We know about > the piecemeal revelation over 23 years.
>
NAVALI: Allah had revealed the HOLY QUR'AN IN DIFFERENT FORMS:
> 1. More ways to go about and all different ways are correct OR
> 2. More ways to go about but only one way is the correct way to go
---
NAVALI: i will leave that up to you, smart guy!
A. 012.001 These are verses of the Scripture MANIFEST--
1. tilka ayatu alkitabi almubeenu
B. 012.002 Lo! We have_ R_E_V_E_A_L_E_D_
IT, A QUR'AN in Arabic, that ye may understand.
2. Inna ANZALNAHU QUR-ANAN AAarabiyyan laAAallakum taAAqiloona
C. 012.003 We _N_A_R_R_A_T_E_
unto thee (Muhammad) the best OF _N_A_R_R_A_T_I_V_E_S. [PLURAL]
3. NAHNU NAQUSSU AAalayka ahsana ALQASASI
D. in that We have _I_N_S_P_I_R_E_D_
IN THEE THIS QUR'AN,
4. bima AWHAYNA ilayka hatha alqur-ana
-------------
how many modes of
revelations do we have here?
a. We have_ R_E_V_E_A_L_E_D_IT
b. We _N_A_R_R_A_T_E_unto thee
c. in that We have _I_N_S_P_I_R_E_D_ in thee
----
do these 3-THREE DIFFERENT MODES of REVELATION mean one and the same thing? if they do, then why did Allah maintain an EXPLICIT DISTINCTION between them?
WAY #1:
the QUR'AN vis-a-vis the _W_O_R_D_
023.068 Have they not _P_O_N_D_E_R_E_D_ THE WORD
, or hath that come unto them which came
not unto their fathers of old?
023.069 Or know they not their _M_E_S_S_E_N_G_E-R,_ and so reject him? 68. A
falam yaddabbaroo alqawla am jaahum ma lam ya/ti abaahumu al-awwaleena 69.
Am lam yaAArifoo rasoolahum fahum lahu munkiroona
------
WAY #2:
015.087 We have GIVEN thee
:
seven of the OFT-REPEATED AND the great Qur'an. --87. Walaqad ataynaka
sabAAan mina ALMATHANEE waalqur-ana alAAatheema
-----
WAY #3:
039.023 Allah hath REVEALED
:
the fairest of statements, a Scripture CONSISTENT, PAIRED, -- 23. Allahu
nazzala ahsana alhadeethi kitaban MUTHSHABIHAN MATHANIYA.
------
WAY #4:
047.024 Will they then not _M_E_D_I_T_A_T_E_
:
ON THE QUR'AN, or are there locks on the hearts? -- 24. Afala
yatadabbaroona alqur-ana am AAala quloobin aqfaluha
------
WAY #5:
038.029 (This is) a _S_C_R_I_P_T_U_R_E_ that We have REVEALED
:
unto thee, full of blessing, that they may _P_O_N_D_E_R_ _I_T_S_
_R_E_V_E_L_A_T_I_O_N_S,_ and that men of understanding may reflect.
-----
WAY #6
the QUR'AN vis-a-vis the _W_O_R_D_
073.002 KEEP VIGIL THE NIGHT LONG, SAVE A LITTLE - 073.003 A HALF THEREOF,
OR ABATE A LITTLE THEREOF 073.004 Or add (a little) thereto - and chant
:
the _Q_U_R'_A_N_ in measure,
-------
WAY #7
073.005 FOR WE _S_H_A_L_L_ _C_H_A_R_G_E_
:
THEE WITH A _W_O_R_D_ _Q_A_W_L_A_N_ OF WEIGHT.
:
073.006 LO! THE VIGIL OF THE NIGHT IS (A TIME) WHEN _I_M_P_R_E_S_S_I_O_N_ IS
MORE KEEN AND _S_P_E_E_C_H_ MORE CERTAIN.
------
WAY #8 --
MOST IMPORTANT:
042.052 And thus have We INSPIRED-AWHAYNA in thee (Muhammad) a SPIRIT OF
OUR COMMAND--ROOHAN MIN AMRINA.
nor what the FAITH. But We have made it a LIGHT--NOOR
jaAAalnahu nooran
:
whereby We guide... 52. Wakathalika awhayna ilayka roohan min amrina ma
kunta tadree ma alkitabu wala al-eemanu walakin jaAAalnahu nooran nahdee
bihi...
----------
WAY #9 -- MOST IMPORTANT
075.017 Lo! upon Us (resteth) the putting together
thereof and the reading
thereof. 075.018 And when We _r_e_a_d_ it, follow thou the
reading; 075.019
Then lo! upon Us (resteth) the _e_x_p_l_a_n_a_t_i_o_n_ of _i_t_. -- 17.
Inna AAalayna jamAAahu waqur-anahu 18. Fa-itha _q_a_r_a_/nahu faittabiAA
qur-anahu 19. Thumma inna AAalayna _b_a_y_a_n_a_h_u_
-------
WAY #10 --- MOST IMPORTANT
003.007 He it is Who hath revealed unto thee (Muhammad) the Scripture
wherein are clear revelations - they are the substance of the Book - and
others (which are) allegorical. -- 7. Huwa allathee anzala AAalayka alkitaba
minhu ayatun muhkamatun hunna ommu alkitabi waokharu mutashabihatun
------
WAY # 11
024.035 Allah is the Light of the heavens and the earth. The similitude of
His light is as .. Light upon light. Allah guideth unto His light whom He
will. And Allah speaketh to mankind in allegories, Allahu nooru alssamawati
waal-ardi mathalu noorihi kam ---narun noorun AAala noorin yahdee Allahu
linoorihi man yashao wayadribu Allahu al-amthala lilnnasi
056.077 THAT (THIS) IS INDEED A NOBLE _Q_U_R'_A_N- 056.078 IN A _B_O_O_K_ KEPT _H_I_D_D_E_N_ 056.079 WHICH NONE TOUCHETH SAVE THE PURIFIED, ---77. Innahu laqur-anun kareemun 78. Fee kitabin maknoonin. 79. La yamassuhu illa almutahharoona.
========
IN WHICH PORTION OF THE BOOK [114 SURAHS--CHAPTERS] IS THE **QUR'ANUN KAREEM
per se., KEPT HIDDEN*??
this is Allah's REVELATION. so please don't argue for the sake of it. simply
show the proof. please PROVE it by QUOTING the Holy Qur'anun KAREEM ONLY!
----
PURIFIED or claim to purity?????? think again:
004.049 Hast thou not seen those who praise themselves for purity ? Nay,
Allah purifieth whom He will;
053.032 He is Best Aware of you (from the time) when He created you from the
earth, and when ye were hidden in the bellies of your mothers. Therefor
ASCRIBE NOT PURITY UNTO YOURSELVES. He is Best Aware of him who wardeth off
(evil).
----
WAY #13
002.185 The month of Ramadan in which was REVEALED
a. the Qur'an, a guidance for mankind,
b. and MANIFEST PROOFS-- _o_f_ _t_h_e_ guidance
-- --
WA BAYYINAATIM _M_I_N_A_L_ -- HUDAA,
c. and the FURQAAN.
---------
WAY #14
017.106 And (it is) a Qur'an that We have divided, that thou mayst recite it
unto mankind at intervals,
:
and We have revealed it by (successive) revelation.
------
Isaiah 28:10 For He says,
"Order on order, order on order, Line
on line,
line
on line,
A little here, a little there.' Isaiah
28:13 So the word of the LORD to them will be, Order on order, order on order, Line
on line,
line
on line,
A little here, a little there,
---
WAY #15 & #16
015.001 These are verses/REVELATIONS of the Scripture -- AND A
QURAN
MANIFEST -- 1. tilka ayatu alkitabi waqur-anin mubeenin
027.001 These are VERSE/revelations of the Qur'an and a
Scripture MANIFEST;
1 tilka ayatu alqur-ani wakitabin mubeenin
---
please explain the difference between these 2-TWO revelations citing
QUR'ANIC references ONLY to substantiate.
compare:
002.097 Say (O Muhammad, to mankind): Who is an enemy to Gabriel! For he it
is who hath REVEALED TO _T_H_Y_ _H_E_A_R_T_ by Allah's leave, confirming
that which was before it, and a guidance and glad tidings to believers;
------
compare:
025.032 And those who disbelieve say: Why is the Qur'an not revealed unto
him all at once ? (It is revealed) thus that We may strengthen thy heart
therewith; and We have arranged it in right order.
-----
compare:
044.002 By the SCRIPTURE that maketh plain 44.003
Lo! WE REVEALED
:
IT ON A BLESSED NIGHT - Lo! We are ever warning -
-----
compare:
097.001 Lo! WE REVEALED IT--HU
:
-- on the LAILYTUL QADR
-----
compare:
096.001 _R_E_A_D:_
:
IN THE NAME OF THY LORD WHO CREATETH,
096.003 _R_E_A_D:
:_ AND THY LORD IS THE MOST BOUNTEOUS,
----
> >but more importantly, the *Divine Essence of Allah's
> >Revelations--Aayaatillaahi* ---- [and here, i am not referring to the
> >Qur'anic verses and/or the other signs in the universe, etc., but i am
> >referring exclusively to the REVELATION OF *THE 5-FIVE HOLY ONES OF
LIGHT*
> >IN ISLAM] --- is CONTAINED in as little as ONE BLESSED VERSE OR *THE
>
> To ensure the understanding is clear: When you say revelation of "the
> five holy ones of light" do you mean (a) God revealed the existance
> of panjtan pak [ as in "these are the five pure people"] OR do you
> mean (b) panjtan pak have/had some special knowledge not given to
> others [ as in "wahi" or "ta'wil" or "revelation" that the the panjtan
> pak possess ]
NAVALI: please don't expect me to spoon feed you now:
a. He said: 002.030 Surely I know that which ye know not. 002.031 And He
taught Adam ALL THE NAMES, then SHOWED THEM to the angels, saying: Inform Me
of THE NAMES OF THESE, if ye are truthful. ...31. WaAAallama adama
AL-ASMAA
KULLAHA thumma AAaradahum AAala almala-ikati faqala anbi-oonee BI-ASMA-I
HAOLA-I in kuntum sadiqeena ..
b. 002.033 He said: O Adam! Inform them of THEIR NAMES, and when he had
informed them of THEIR NAMES, He said: Did I not tell you that I know the
SECRET OF THE HEAVENS AND THE EARTH ? And I know that which ye disclose and
which ye hide. 002.034 And when We said unto the angels: PROSTRATE
yourselves before Adam, they fell prostrate, ...33. Qala ya adamu anbi/hum
BI-ASMA-IHIM falamma anbaahum BI-ASMA-IHIM qala alam aqul lakum innee
AAALAMU GHAYBA ALSSAMAWATI WAAL-ARDI waaAAlamu ma tubdoona wama kuntum
taktumoona 34. Wa-ith qulna lilmala-ikati OSJUDOO li-adama
-------
COMPARE:
038.075 He said: O Iblis! What hindereth thee from falling
prostrate before
that which I have created with both My hands ? Art thou too proud OR ART
THOU OF THE HIGH EXALTED? -- 75. Qala ya ibleesu ma manaAAaka an
tasjuda
lima khalaqtu biyadayya astakbarta am kunta mina alAAaleena
--
WHO WERE THESE -- *OF THE EXALTED--MINA ALAAALEENA*??
====
>
> And since you want and are eager to defend your imam, you can no
> longer use the closing signature " for you yours and for me mine"
>
>
> We will visit the site you have mentioned in your other post and shall
> comment on it after we receive your answer to the above questions.
====
NAVALI: additional details @ - http://www.geocities.com/navali/Tariqah.htm
in view of the aforesaid, it is absolutely WRONG of you to IMPOSE your
bunch of unsubstantiated beliefs or way of thinking and reading upon us,
especially because you do not believe in what we believe -- whereas, we
believe in what ALLAH HAD REVEALED.
kindly bear the above in mind because this is the FOUNDATION OF ALLAH'S
REVELATION for mankind namely, the Holy Qur'an, our Tariqah and this
presentation per se.
you, sir and your anti-ismaili/islamic group have chosen not to follow the
same -- and that's precisely where we part our ways.
Lakum Diinukum--Unto you your Religion
WA LIYA DIIN--AND UNTO ME MY RELIGION
Kaafiruun--Disbelievers - Surah 109:6
PLEASE CONSIDER THIS MATTER AS CLOSED!
Navali
http://roswell.fortunecity.com/psychic/435/index.html
http://www.geocities.com/navali/Tariqah.htm
<_4209211_> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> On Wed, 28 Feb 2001 13:57:08 -0700, "Navali" <[email protected]>
> wrote:
>
> >dear mr. _420_9_2_11_ aka qari faizullaah chitrali --
> >[420 -- charso biis -- nau se igyara -- 9 to 11]
>
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