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Lyra-Lannah: Alright, shall we begin? I wish to thank you all for coming to the meeting. A few rules that I need to set in place before we begin. This is a discussion for all teachers, one in which I hope that good things come from it. Each of you have ideas and thought which you are free to express, but please lets be aware of other's feelings as well as order in here. If you have a question or comment, please type C and I will call on you in order
Lyra-Lannah: Alright, as you each know, teaching has gone off in many directions over the course of the Dream. We need and want to accomodate teachers and students but in order to do this, we need to fix areas of concern
Lyra-Lannah: One area of concern is the quality of tasks. There are some here from the old school of teaching, where it was taught by mentors to make the task standarized. But the dream has changed in many ways, the students have changed. Tasks don't have to be difficult. They can be creative. But the main point is that teachers actually teach, instead of just having busy work for the students
Lyra-Lannah: I understand each of you have concerns on your abilities in tasking, what will be judged or not or seen as a jump task. The reasons for this meeting, is twofold. To help solve your concerns as Teachers as well as help us see things from your view and better aid you. I will start by listening to your concerns as a group of very important dreamers.
FLUSHY: Well, I just want to make a comment. I think there comes a point where a controller of a student can only benefit so much in the sense of 'learning'. Most usually take it upon themselves to satisfy their interests by finding information on their own. My point being is that I don't see anything wrong with giving tasks that have people do work. In turn, this creates roleplay. There is only so much one can 'learn' unless you just start changing words around.
Lyra-Lannah: The type work is things such as histories, learning cost and focus, ect.
FLUSHY: I misinterpreted the earlier statement then, sorry. That's all on my part.
Lyra-Lannah: Imagination is such a good tool for tasking. I think that so many teachers are afraid to use this, for fear that the big bad Lyran GM will come and take their halo away. But this is far from the case A teacher's duty is to teach, facilitate Role Playing and and further the progress of the Dream
tux: question to clear up confusion... For initial tasking of an art, is it no longer as important as in the past to teach that student the basics of the art, history, evocation time, etc. first and foremost?
ricki: i think it is......
Lyra-Lannah: Can you not still teach that while you are thinking of a task? If you talk to your students, learn what they know, you might be surprised to know they already know the cost, effect and history already There are many things in the dream to learn, depending on what the student knows as well as what they like.
ricki: how much is still excepted to be in the codex..i like to talk to my students especially the new dreamers and i can't fit everything on a codex,but they still learn out of my talk and the like
ricki: just wondering what basics need to be on a codex..if any..
Lyra-Lannah: As a GM teacher, I try and put the basics of the task on a codex, to cover my tail, and I will talk with the student as well
ricki: i can make a cost and focus but talk and explain othe rthings that you wont find on the codex. Tux, did I answer your question? Before we go onto the next comment?
tux: Example might be a better way for me to ask it... a newly awakened dreamer.. first art task...make it push to keep it simple:).. teachers priority is....? creative tasking, teaching through knowledge gaining of the art by the student?
Lyra-Lannah: You answer that tux
tux: Now thats not fair! Lyran plot! You said up front YOU would answer our questions
Folko: priorety there, would be showing the newly awakened what task IS! how it works, how it's done, and how it's accepted. push is special, push is sacred.
Lyra-Lannah: You can find out what they know and task on what they don't know about the said art. or to be honest, there are those times it really doesn't have to be about the art if they know the art already. I mean seriously, how much can you learn about the art of push. But variations of push is fun.
Minuette: Have we said enough about cost/focus on a codex?
Lyra-Lannah: Let me ask something, a hypothetical situation
Minuette: I personally avoid it. I prefer to teach that verbally before I ever write the task.
LovesLight: I agree with Min
Minuette: After all, the minute I evoke train, they know it. That is assuming they didn't already find it one one of the websites available.
Lyra-Lannah: Lets say, flagg walks up and wants to learn about push. He knows the cost and focus and you as a teacher learn this by talking with him. He knows all the uses and such. So what is the harm in being inventive and creating a task that he will learn something from? Oh, when you are finished with your comment, please type D for done. This way we won't move on too fast without answer all questions
LovesLight: Oh yes well its a bit of an addition to what minutte said.. but I wanna add statistics as well.. like I know back in the day I probably had my share of statistic tasks.. and I can tell you this right now.. lol If you asked me the stats of damage.. today I wouldnt be able to remember.. I just think thats another menial thing to add to task.. though I am sure it can be useful at times but thats stuff people can print out and keep OOC.. though I do think histories are fun to learn and if incorporated well are still useful in some tasks.. but thats just me :)P
Lyra-Lannah: I am not saying that historys have to be neglected at all. But if a dreamer knows the history, wouldn't be better to expand on that knowledge instead of having them recite how push was created ?
LovesLight: well ya but thats all part of the process of getting to know your student and finding out if they know or not :)
Lyra-Lannah: Exactly
Folko: my roleplatying character aside, all honor and Teacher's reputation aside. What is more important..Teacher teaching a student (passing raw information) Or facilitating roleplay (which can include something that alters folklore and literacy in the city) and if it's the latter, what precisely makes so many teachers so...touchy, on making sure that their students are loaded with data before they learn the art.
Lyra-Lannah: How they were trained maybe. structure of teaching?
Folko: peer pressure of the fellow teachers maybe ?
Lyra-Lannah: It could be many things, but in all actuality, a teacher's duty is teaching and facilitating Role Playing. The Dream is a never ending history in progress, why not expound on this aspect
Folko: what is more important? teaching or facilitating ?
Lyra-Lannah: You say peer pressue but I believe that isn't the case anymore in this area. I have seen teaching change. dont' they both go hand in hand?
Lyra-Canis: I just wanted to chime in with a couple of things....First, I think one thing we all need to remember is that character progression is largley in all of your collective hands. That is a huge responsibility. However...I don't think it is a matter of what is more important.... Item A or Item B.... What is important is that as halo'd teachers everyone remembers the very important aspect they fill within the game. YOU help mould the players around you.... You help build the environment. Frankly.. I think it is REALLY cool.
Lyra-Canis: Tux mentioned if teaching new players about their arts is still important... Of course it is.. Why? beacause the game doesn't have a multi volume game manual that explains every art to the nth detail. Folko asked what is more important.... My point of view... (for what THAT is worth) is that teachers are ALWAYS facilitating the game BY teaching.
Lyra-Canis: Lastly,... Most of us that have been around a while.... have the feeling that there isn't much new under the sun. And while that is partly true. I can tell you that from a GM perspective there are lots of little things most dreamers spend years clueless about because... they never took the time to explore the dream. Imagine this... Imagine is an alien showed up at your door completely unaware of your world. Totaly oblivious to things like ice cream and sunsets. Even the mundane CAN be interesting to someone who hasn't spent three years looking at the same skies.
GeRRoZ: I'd like to say about faciliating role playing through teaching, that an important part of the quest is to have the student involve other dreamers in their missions. Thus the teacher is creating activity and what started as a task for an art might expand into a great experience for many. Sure include the mundane but be sure to also include the oportunity for the task to evolve into something more than just an event for that student only. it's like all the whispering going on. with noone hearing anything, things gets boring, and if tasks turns too much to induvidual performances, it will too get boring in the end
Lyra-Dagger: All excellent points.. I just wanted to add, and I'll be brief, as there are other important points to get to.. that current happenings, offer wonderful opportunities for tasking material.. that will have the result of getting said player involved with the web of RP possibilities.. as opposed to working on something that is "separate".
LovesLight: Just a little note to Canis on his alien analogy: We havent been looking at the same skies for 3 years W00t! hah JK sorry had to say it!
Tone: I take if from what Canis said that you guys aren;t going to have Prima make a Strategy Guide then. :) But to be serious now... The only thing I see here that I don't like are the ideas of history tasks. To use CAnis Ice cream example... If an alien came down and knly knew of the word Ice Cream the'd have no idea what it was or how it was made.. But if they had a part of a Breyers box they might be able to come up with the history of Ice Cream. For planes, I have no problem .we have the planes and the layout of the city from which to infer things. But for arts we have nothing whichn is why art history tasks leave a bad taste ion my mouth. I think it would help teachins and exploration if Lyra put moreprimes in the game which had to do with art histories. SO art histories would be less a 'make something up' task and more an exploration task
Lyra-Lannah: But look at it this way. Unless it is written down, is that what history that is passed down, pure interpretation?
Lyra-Lannah: So you are asking for concrete set Histories of the Arts and their creation?
Tone: It's like Budge's translations of Heiroglyphics. When the Rosetta stone was found, all his translations were shown to be fabrications. I wouldn't say concrete histories....but some direction would be nice.
Lyra-Lannah: That is possible to do
tux: The creativity angle as it applies to history tasks is in speculation or expansion of the known history. Expansion of a known history has virtually limitless potential for further rp
GeRRoZ: small comment about history tasks. I will have to disagree with tone there, cause with history tasks it's a great range of things you can do. if you're so one tracked as to just let the student go to other dreamers and learn it, I agree, that's boring. but if you do someting else, for instance make the student criticize the history, look for faults, maybe look into history even deeper like a true historian, some like to do that. Or to write one for a miss. the task was great for me as I could work on it on spare time without a computer and such it was great for me. The possibilities are great and I dont think we should limit it, rather use it.
Rath: budge may have made everything up...but alot of wonderful ideas/stories developed from that...history tasks can be horrible...or brilliant...alot has to do with the person...history tasks are NOT for everyone...and they need to be worded carefully to direct a student to something new...not just a repeat/rewrite/alteration of what was already there
Lyra-Lannah: The art of Teaching can cover such a vast area and that is what I want for all teachers to realise. My hopes for today was to get your concerns as a group on how to better this area in the dream. I know there are many concerns out there and that is what we are here for. We, Lyran GM's do not enjoy stripping teachers at all. We would much rather help than do this. I have heard that many are afraid to task using imagination, but standard tasks are safe. We want imagination as well as the students do. Put yourself in their place. Would you rather work on a standard task or one that actually stimulates your minds or creativity. I want to hear your ideas, your concerns, what areas you think should be changed to better suit you as teachers as well as the students. There is a difference in major art being tasked and a silly art that has no advantages in the plateaus other than being able to say hey my locate is at 60. I am here to help teaching.
LovesLight: OK so how do we feel about multi.. well majorly double tasking of say these *coughs Menial arts? two arts in one rather. I think alot of people fear those because those do tend to get people in trouble but i am not talking 8 -9 plats for one task.. just maybe like locate and oh say know or something?
Lyra-Lannah: In minor arts such as that, the task can be combined with out issue. Tasking is difficult at best. You can have a task such as locate and know something or some things. What is important is to ask yourself, a few questions. First, will the student learn something, experience something worthwhile. Secondly is this task worth what it is being tasked for. Did that answer your question?
GeRRoZ: what's the stance on apprentices tasking for plats higher than their train, under their mentor. meaning, tasking students
Lyra-Lannah: Apprentices for Ordainment? or for train plateaus?
GeRRoZ: both?
Lyra-Lannah: Well, the training of a teacher to ordainment is for just that, learning to task for learnable arts. Once they are ordained,they gain the experience needed to advance to a higher train level. Thus more apprenticing for the next level. How can you actually task for higher levels without going through the advancement structure? An apprentice that is being mentored for ordainment in all reality doesn't have the experience to be tasking for their mentor for all arts and plateaus to say level 40
GeRRoZ: what I meant is like.....say your character is a teacher with train at 19, and is seeking train 20. you have a mentor MT, and you wish to practice tasking students tasks to 20. how's that looked upon
Lyra-Lannah: Isn't that what the training experience is about? To learn, to experience? It is up to the mentor to allow you and trust you as an apprentice enough to have you do that. But if you are say level 19 train, tasking for plateaus of the 40th level, that is not a good thing
Lyra-Lannah: Are there any other comments or questions before I bring this meeting to a close? Again I wish to thank all of you for taking your time out to attend this session. We are here to improve the dream and to make it as enjoyable and addicting as we can. We are here to listen to your concerns and work together to make it the best place we can.
Lyra-Lannah: I would like to hold these sessions, discussions and brain storming every so often to keep the lines of communication open
Lyra-Dagger: I have seen various discussions on the forums about teachers being afraid to task, but I didn't see anyone bring it up.. is that still an issue? Was it ever really an issue?
Lyra-Lannah: I think we did discuss that Dagger, along the lines of the types of tasking
Lyra-Dagger: Thank you all for coming :) Let's keep the lines of communication open.
