Finally, given the associations of emotional symptoms with high estradiol levels, it is not surprising that cycling perimenopausal women whose estrogen levels are at least intermittently extremely high would experience unwanted emotional symptoms.  The term "mood swings" used commonly by women may be literally true and linked to wide fluctuations in estrogen levels.  Thus the perimenopause and its resulting loss of fertility and social status are coupled with erratic and high estrogen levels which, in addition to causing breast tenderness, fluid retention, and troublesome menstrual cycle bleeding, also increase the physiological responses to stress.

I suppose I am mainly concerned about the irritability.  It is so bad sometimes, I think it could get out of control.  Does the irritability go away closer to menopause?

No, really: While I do feel that some of my own "moodiness" during peri - including phases of wanting to bite people's heads off for things I would have ignored earlier in life - has had a hormonal component.  But inn almost every specific case I can think of, the irritability didn't come out of thin air.  There's always been something - word or deed, someone else's or my own - that truly bugged me.  The hormonal element just sort of cranked up the volume of my reaction.

Personally, I've found this useful; it spurred me to finally resolve some things that had been bothering me, in a minor irritant way, for decades.  That might mean sitting down with a loved one and saying, "You know, it's always bugged the hell out of me when you do/say X, and I've reached an age where I just don't want to put up with it any more.  So what can we do about that?"  Or detaching myself from some longstanding "volunteer" commitments that I'd taken on when I didn't really want to, because I felt obligated or guilty or whatever.

I sometimes think that the heightened emotional state that sometimes accompanies peri is an opportunity for us to clear the decks for old age, to look closely at our lives and how we live them - and sometimes, who we're living them with - and decide if this is how we want to spend the rest of our lives.  Personally, I've found that most of the irritability has gone away once I've dealt with the source of what's irritating me.  8 or 10 years into peri, I have very few crabby days any more, although I still have moments of heightened emotion (weeping at sappy TV commercials is a favorite.)

Your mileage may vary, but it's worth considering.

- -Pat Kight [email protected]

Hi Everyone..
I just joined the group today.. hope you don't mind if jump right in and ask a question or two....... 
First, I'm going to use the word "lately" and when I say "lately" I'm not really sure what I mean.. whether lately means 6 month, 1 yr, 2 yrs, since I quit smoking in dec?, seems to have crept up on me..

I'm 43 and have found that "lately" nothing is easy anymore. Simple things are a pain. I'm a very easy going person (or used to be). Now I'm ready to throw things against the wall.  For example:  the other nite I was looking for my measuring cup to bake something, it wasn't where it should be, I looked in another cabinet, nope not there, looked somewhere else, nope not there either.... by this time I was ready to scream and wanted to rip the cabinet doors off the wall.   AND THAT IS NOT ME!!

It seems almost anything I do, there is a problem with it and I get frustrated. So frustrated I want to scream and throw something..   I have never thrown something before (still haven't).  I have found myself getting mad at my dog because she wants a pet...mad at my bird because it's talking to much..frustrated because I can't find something or frustrated because I'm trying to do a task and it's not going well...

Anyway,, I talked with my mom and she says I'm depressed because of hormones. She says I might be pre-menopausal...  I never thought of my being irritated with something as being depressed because of hormones.....

Can anyone out there shed some light on what's going on with me??  Does this sound familiar to any of you? Are my hormones making a change? or do I just sound like I'm going nuts?   If it's hormones, what can I do to help myself?  herbs? more exercise?  drugs from dr?  please share your experiences with me...   thanks

Lori
[email protected]

I'm exactly your age and have been experiencing mood swings of the kind you describe for three or four years now. In my case, the easily triggered frustration and irritability alternates with a mood of  depression, passivity and insecurity (charming, huh?).  It might help to keep a journal of some kind, tracking which are your  worst "frustration days" and correlating them to your menstrual cycle. In  my case, I get irritable for a week or two before my period, then I'm  fine during my period, then I hit a depression/passivity phase right after my period. (There's one week in there where things are mostly fine :/ ). 

I have gotten some relief from St. Johns Wort. I was on low-dose birth  control pills for a while to control the mood swings, and they worked  great, but had side effects I found undesirable. Exercise does help, as does cutting back on caffeine and sweets. 

Good luck, 
Verdant 

A great deal of emotional turmoil may be related to quitting smoking. Depression is frequent in people who have quit smoking, as is irritability, difficulty with concentration and memory, and over-reaction to minor annoyances. I know whereof I speak - I quit 2+ years ago. Although you may welll be perimenopausal at 43, you may also just be suffering the side effects of quitting smoking -the ones the doctors don't tell you about. This is most emphatically NOT a suggestion that you should go back to smoking, but give yourself a break and realize that it will pass as time goes on. You might try to get a prescription for an antidepressant if you think you're depressed - there are theories suggesting that smokers, either by nature or as result of the use of nicotine, are prone to depression and smoke to alleviate it - sort of self-medication. Please feel free to email me if you want to discuss my own personal experience. I don't sell anything, nor do I have any connection with anyone who does. 

Terri 

Well, I certainly wouldn't call it depression, although there is a kind of clinical depression that can manifest in extreme irritability and nervousness, but it could still have to do with hormones.  I started getting this when I was around your age (I'm 45 now), and it seemed to me that the feelings were similar to what women with PMS described.  If PMS is a reaction to changing hormone status, and perimenopause (which I was pretty sure I was in because of other symptoms, very heavy and irregular periods among them), I thought maybe treating the difficulty as if it were PMS might help.  I tried evening primrose oil, and it did help.  Recommendations for dosage vary and you'll want to read up on it and what it does, but I did find it very helpful.  You might want to look at other suggested remedies for PMS too, or at least for that portion of it.  I did also get bloating sometimes and migraines and clumsiness and foggy thinking, but they weren't well correlated with the irritability. 

This is pretty common in perimenopause; and, as I said, some women have a version of it every month with their PMS.  I don't think you are going nuts.  This didn't always work, depending on how mad I was, but sometimes I could just tell myself, Look, this really is not such a problem, you're not mad, it's just chemicals racing around.  So is ordinary irritation, of course, but at least then I feel like some operation of the mind started the chemicals going. 

A sense of humor helps too, if you can manage it.  Sometimes telling myself I looked pretty silly would just make me angrier but sometimes it would make me giggle instead.  I also found that any given situation had a kind of built-in limit of how irate it could make me, so that even if I continued to be in a very bad mood, the fact that I couldn't find the measuring cup would time out as a specific frustrator and I could then actually find it.  It helps to stop looking for ten minutes and go find something else to annoy you. 

I did sometimes just have to give up whatever I was trying to do rather than continue to be frustrated.  This is not always an option,  if you're trying to package a manuscript for a deadline or repair  something at work, but it's worth remembering. 

I still have this problem from time to time, but as my primary problem it has been retired in favor of migraine-like sinus headaches with a variety of triggers. 

Pamela Dean Dyer-Bennet                        [email protected]

---

There is something about the idea of taking products to produce an artificial state of an "even keel" that somehow on some level does not set well with me. Like valuing the "Stepford Wife" as the acceptable cultural ideal, in a way. 

 At a Women's Health CEU course I just took, the menopause speaker talked about "mood shifts" being just exaggerated ways of reminding us that life has its ebbs and flows, and our basic comfort level with -transitions-, and meno is a huge transition, determines how well we can weather through the "mood shifts" that seem to come at this time in our lives. Personally, I find the exaggeration of emotions to be wonderful. Like the lid came off of a long slumber and the present matters more than at any other time of my life. The feelings now feel unlocked, uncensored and authentic. 

 The repeated story in "Women Who Run With The Wolves" were tales of the life-death-life cycle of a woman's being. Trusting in the shifts of this cycle for what they are, and not trying to freeze them with chemicals into only one part of the natural pendulum swings of life.  Life-death-life.  Until we finally die.
 Since life is shifting at middle age, for both men and women, freezing in only one state of existence (even keel), means to me that one might become chemically brittle for the challenges of aging that face us all. But if we learn to go into the "mood shifts" and sway with their rhythm, then they can become new sources of energy and creativity for us. And a lesson in letting go and trusting. An invitation into the world of intuition and deep resonance with our deepest parts, our inner source of energy and spirit, which is leaking through in our newly felt emotions. 

 If one fears going into a black mood only means a downward spiral into depression and destruction, then they are not really "mood shifts", are they? They are really attempts to stave off the dogs of depression and need to be viewed and treated as such. 

  Is refusing to get into their rhythms by taking a drug, a way of avoiding the exploration of the shadow, the inner world, the sub-conscious, that seems in myth to be the prime invitation of midlife?  (That is, an invitation only according to those of us who think that way of course.) 

Shelly

I have found I've needed to learn to manage my anger. Since I have been in menopause I find I am more willing to express my anger and since I am kind of 'powerful' in my expression of things generally--the anger seemed to grow and grow. I find thinking about things and having conversations with my boyfriend when I am not 'feeling' angry has been a big help. When I 'feel' that rage coming on I try and stay away from people and think it through. It's like I am learning to process it AND express it rationally -FINALLY- after years and years of putting it aside for someone else's priorities or blowing up.

I also find myself feeling panicky in my chest. This I feel is hormonal--like the 'wave' of a hot flash. The very best thing that seems to help is regular exercise. I have started going to the gym three times a week and pushing heavy weights along with doing some cardiovascular time on the recumbent bike. I find myself feeling 'wound up' on the day when I have actually gone two days without exercise--but I know it's because I need to go to the gym--so even that helps me stay reasonable. Deep breaths seem to help. I have signed up for water aerobics twice a week (something new) starting in January.

Oh and here is something else. I finally managed to broach the subject that marriage is very important to me and found my boyfriend's main reluctance stems from my anger. We have been together 5 years (since right about when I started perimenopause) and he said he was hoping that I would become less angry when perimenopause passed because he is afraid that someday I will 'start yelling and not stop.' Well I thought about that. I HAVE been expressing my anger -- well, if they had an Academy Award I think my name might show up on the short list. . . .So I said we need to figure this out and I wanted to spend the next 6 months really looking at the relationship to see if it's going to work or not and make some decisions. Then I came up with the idea that on any day when I 'yell', we will put a 'Y' on the calendar and at the end of six months we will have hard numbers.(I think he is REMEMBERING more yelling than there actually IS right now. Well lo and behold--it's been about 3 weeks with no 'Y's' yet. Two reasons --1) I really am not yelling as much 2)Knowiing I have to write it down actually makes me 'think before I explode.' Kind of like writing down the food you eat on a diet.

Maybe something like that would help you--something to help you think about what you are doing on a day to day basis. I also told my boyfriend that if I start getting rageful he can say: 'You are doing it again'--to help me see when things are getting uncomfortable for him. (He hasn't had to say that yet either.)

Anyway--I don't know if that makes any sense to anyone but me but there it is-my plan for life today--who knows what tomorrow will bring? If there is one thing I HAVE learned in the past five years it's--things change and I change and I have to watch myself and learn.

Good luck! (Mary)

 When I first used to get "mood swings" I didn't have a clue it was happening  to me.  I'd get into all sorts of arguments with my husband and I *always*  thought I was in the right and he was being unreasonable .... and it was  always only afterwards that I knew I'd been literally out of control.  But  this began to happen so often and the things I was saying and doing were  sooo horrible that I'd feel tremendous guilt afterwards  :-(   Poor man  really didn't deserve it and, quite frankly, my marriage was at stake.

 Because of all that I put (what I still consider to be) quite a super-human  effort into getting this right.  It wasn't easy and I can't say that what  worked for me will work for you .... but these days my mood swings are fewer  and when I do start raging I am able to recognise it better and deal with it a little.

 First key thing for me was to talk things through with husband.  Lots of  talk.  Lots of talk and *only* when I wasn't in the middle of a mood swing.  Nice calm "lets discuss this problem" type of stuff.

 During this long talking process we did discover that not all of my rants and rages were totally without foundation .... and many of them were  redirected angers.  There was then a lengthy series of sessions where we  tried to work out where my anger was coming from.  It will be different for  everyone I know, but for me there was anger about lack of privacy (he had  personal spaces to withdraw to and I didn't really have them or feel I could use mine).  There was anger about lack of respect (what I perceived to be  lack of respect from him but was actually him just taking me a little too much for granted).  And there was lots of fear.  Fear about aging, abouthealth, about whether I was falling apart.

 There was other stuff too and where it was something within the marriage we  worked it through together very slowly.  We changed some things, we  rearranged some stuff, we both made a lot more effort to cherish each other.  We both needed lots of reassurance.

 And then there was a whole load of other anger that was *nothing* to do with my husband or our marriage and that I was taking out on him because he was my nearest and dearest and I tend to do that sort of thing if I'm not careful.

 So I then tried to deal with all those other issues.  Stuff about my family of origin, stuff about my social roles, stuff about my past.  Some of that I worked out with the individuals/groups concerned and some of that I worked through in therapy.

 So then I was left with less anger and I started taking much more notice of it when it did happen.  Husband got the hang of trying not to take it all too personally, and of backing off fairly fast when he recognised the signs.  Once the storm subsided we'd sit down and talk it through calmly and see what we could learn.

 It's getting much better and much easier and it happens a lot less than it  used to.  And sometimes now I *can* recognise it when it is happening.  There comes a point where a little voice inside says "hey, you're not being  reasonable here" and, if can hear that voice I try and stop the rant.  A  good friend gave me a great tip.  A secret word.  Husband and I now have a  word which no matter when I say it, it signifies an immediate truce and,  regardless of how horrible I've been, he comes over and gives me a hug and I usually just crumple into tears and we're done.

 I don't know whether any of this is any help to you.  Maybe your "out of control" sessions are different to mine, maybe your solutions would not be my solutions.  Just wanted to pass on what has helped me.  All the best        Silver 

There are few reasons for  individuals to vent rage --anger perhaps, but not rage.  I say that because rage is usually unproductive. 

 But whatever, since I am a lay Californian Jungian thinker, I am a big fan of the "shadow" and not discarding any of our darker emotions or putting overly judgmental overlays on them as not okay feelings. The feelings just are. They are one of the coequal four parts of the Jungian concept of wholeness. (Intellect; emotions; intuition; sensation) All of them need to get brought forth from the darkness, not just the "nice"  ones. I do believe one has responsibility for their expression, but not their existence. Otherwise, I see them getting projected and scapegoated. 

 For me my life awareness changed from outer to inner in trying to heal my way out of panic attacks. I had to go into the fear rather than fight or deny it.  I had to find a way to let it speak to me. I guess I feel the same way about any of our "negative"  feelings. The anger/rage, like my debilitating panic, comes from a deep source. I do believe that both it and its context needs to be honored somehow. I think the stories about deep rage at menopause have had a common theme of a personal power assertion "that was so unlike" the person feeling it. This response of detachment from these feelings has become almost predictable. "It wasn't like me. My family (friends) (workers) (sales person) were shocked and they want my old self back. They don't want me to be like that. 

 This, I believe, is one of the many meno turning points on this issue. Does the deep meno rage that is perhaps a nascent power assertion bubbling up get discarded and drugged back into non-existence, or is a choice made to see where this source of new energy is coming from? This seems to be a common meno happening and a lot of us recognize it and wryly chuckle at our own outbursts during our early meno days.

 So how can we ritualize and channel this "rage" as productive new energy rather than retreating from it in shock and terror, or using it as the first of many excuses to take drugs to make us "feel good." Does this symptom define whether we are going to let ourselves feel like a victim to our own bodies? Or do we find a way to integrate the energy and review our new sense of meno boundaries?  And how do we do this once we decide to ride with it - if we do?

 Broad sweeping generalizations and observations, I know. But I am intrigued with writing a meno tale that ritualizes the commonality of the meno experience, a vessel to hold the loose ends that a lot of us seem to share in one a way or another.

 Like .....what is the BIG picture of meno. Besides a cruel joke by nature? Nope, I personally am not buying into that image. No point. It is all raw material at this point. We are the first generation to be speaking up and together on this whole subject. Do we inherit and accept a negative image of it or do we re-write a better one for the next generation of women who will be experiencing the same darn things? What will be our legacy for the time we have all spent here on asm? (Joan L.)

 Deep rage to me is the morally okay stuff, like your "outrage." Anger is the petty stuff directed at someone else, usually as a projection of something about them selves that they want to blame on someone else. 

 Do you mean feelings that others think are not Ok? The feelings just are. 

 They are one of the coequal four parts of the Jungian concept of wholeness. (Intellect; emotions; intuition; sensation) All of them need to get brought forth from the darkness, not just the "nice"  ones. I do believe one has responsibility for their expression, but not their existence. Otherwise, I see them getting projected and scapegoated. 

 The anger/rage, like my debilitating panic, comes from a deep source. I do believe it and its context needs to be honored some how. I think the stories about deep rage at menopause have had a common theme of a personal power assertion "that was so unlike" the person feeling it. 

 "It wasn't like me." My family (friends) (workers) (sales person) were shocked and they want my old self back. They don't want me to be like that.

This seems to be a common meno happening. A lot of us recognize it and wryly chuckle at our own outbursts from our early meno days.

 So how can we ritualize and channel this as productive new energy rather than retreating from it in shock and terror? 

 Does this symptom define whether we are going to let ourselves feel like a victim to our own bodies? Or do we find a way to integrate the energy and review our new sense of meno boundaries?  And how do we do this once we decide to ride with it?

Like .....what is the BIG picture of meno. Besides a cruel joke by nature? Nope, I personally am not buying into that image.