We've discussed "crashing fatigue" here before, but I don't know if this is the same thing or something else.  My primary perimenopausal symptoms have been very heavy bleeding, insomnia, and fog.  The first two are much in remission these days, and in their absence I realize that I had been attributing to them the fact that I was so tired so much of the time.

Nowadays, I still suffer from time to time, with no rhyme or reason I can detect, a weird kind of tiredness.  It's an effort even to stand up; I feel as though I had a weight on my chest.  I've felt this way when very sad or apprehensive, but this feeling hasn't any particular emotional component except, after a while, extreme frustration and exasperation because I'm not getting anything done.  If I do get up, I find that activities that may have been easy as anything yesterday or last week, like climbing two flights of steps, carrying a bucket of dishes, making a bed, are incredibly difficult.  I feel exactly as if I had already been doing them for so long that I have hit the wall; my muscles are tired, they rebel, they won't do this any more. Similarly, one day I can walk to the corner store briskly with no difficulty at all and the next I'm puffing and my heart is pounding and my legs feel rubbery if I attempt it.

It tends to happen when I haven't had a period for a while, and it's sometimes but not uniformly correlated with PMS symptoms like sore breasts.  I can't correlate it with diet.

Does anybody else have this?  Does anybody know what it *is*?  It's so annoying.  If it were continuous I might worry more, but it's so very intermittent I tend to think it's another goddamned peri symptom.

II'll chime in here to note that I also experience bouts of fatigue that are utterly disconnected with how much sleep I've had, how much I've exerted myself, etc. I've tried to track whether it's cyclical, but since I don't seem to *have* any recognizable cycles any more, I can't say that with any certainty.

Oddly, I notice it most when I'm on the way to work in the mornings. I park some distance from my office, and most days, the walk is mildly invigorating. But there are certain days when it seems almost *grueling* - I can barely lift my feet to take one step after another. (Now that I write that, I realize that "heavy feet" is quite literally how I think of this sort of fatigue -- it's as if gravity were suddenly turned on "high.")  --Pat Kight

No, I haven't recognizable cycles either.  I've tried to backtrack to see if this precedes bleeding -- for about nine months, if I felt complettely exhausted I knew I was going to have a monumental flood in a day or two -- but mercifully, on the whole, it does not.

Yes, that is *exactly* it.  Pity I don't write science fiction.  An extraterrestrial experience right here on earth. "There's something wrong with the energy transfer system" is what I would say to myself sometimes.  Which would tie in with what Kathryn said about blood sugar.

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I also experience this "bizarre fatigue" - it is a good comparison to the odd tiredness I used to get after swimming. I always thought it was the relaxing properties of the saltwater. When this fatigue happens now, it feels odd, and I can worry about causes. I have noticed that it seems to have a cycle, usually last 3 days, and it is not helped by getting more sleep, which is very frustrating. I also get aches and feel as if I am fighting a virus etc. When I flood, it is a different tired, sort of what one would expect from the all the bleeding, and extra sleep helps in that case. If you find any thing that works for you, let me know. In fact this is one of my tired days.

I interpreted the crashing fatigue sign differently -- I was, while bleeding copiously and having insomnia, subject to sudden moments when I absolutely had to lie down and go to sleep Right Now.  This isn't that dramatic, it's more like really concentrated lethargy.

Interesting.  I'd have thought the intense sleepiness might have to do with blood sugar.  Which doesn't mean what I'm describing doesn't. Did the doctor have any suggestions?  I'd guess that cutting back on refined carbohydrates might be useful.  I can't correlate my bouts of fatigue with anything dietary, but I might try watching refined carbohydrates anyway.  They don't seem in general to be very good for anybody.

Joanna: Yes, I recognise the two states of being..well, trying to be.

It certainly has done that. It's good to know that our brains are still active even though our bodies want to sleep.

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Oh, that's interesting.  Has anybody had both?

YEP! Thinking about it, I had the panic attacks when I wasn't having the concentrated lethargy.  I've had checks for diabetes and thyroid within the last 2 years, nada. I do have a tendency to hypoglycemia but the sort of lethargy you describe feels different.  I have thought of CFS but surely that doesn't come and go.

Quite, and what is 'severe interference'? It differs too greatly from one person to the next. If I were a manual worker with 4 young kids at home, it would be severe all right. 

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I feel wimpish too.  As if, really, I could do fine if I would just get up and start on something.  But it doesn't work that way, the muscles really just rebel.

Likewise, I've been feeling a complete fool for wanting to hibernate this winter and only go out as far as the local shops. I was seriously thinking I had become agorophobic once and for all and questioning how the hell I'd cope with having to teach in school once the high season starts. 

I'm very lucky that I work at home, but had somewhat similar worries about not wanting to attend book signings and conventions and so on, or get together with visiting authors, even if I liked them.

I've just returned from spending time with Laura and have had to sleep for 12 hours to recover :-). Still feeling very lethargic, I downloaded asm and saw this thread. The lights of empathy flashed very brightly and it's been so very helpful.

Thanks, that's encouraging anyway.

Yes it is, thanks Pam, Kathryn and everyone else.

I wish I could tell you I found some magic cure, but I didn't.  I napped when I could, eliminated non-essential activities from my life (which turned out to be a good thing, I think, in the long term) and tried to eat well and get what exercise I could.  The fatigue lasted about a year, not constant, but enough of the time that I remember that as my tired year.

I can't tell you exactly when it went away, but it did.  These days, not quite menopausal but edging closer, I have plenty of energy most of the time, although if I'm going to expend a lot of it (as tonight, dancing at a friend's 60th birthday party), then I need to plan a day of recovery time afterward.