Posted by J.H. [JH] on April 02, 1999 at 15:26:13 {ppHCdFLRUMHSG.vl05doHR5JhS9/hc}:
In Reply to: Common Sense Argument posted by WW on April 02, 1999 at 12:59:17:
WW,
: First Law - The Law of the Conservation of Energy
: 1.Law Explained - No energy in the universe is being created or destroyed. It can only change
forms.
: 2.Law Applied - We must therefore conclude, that the universe did
not create itself. There are
only two options: It is eternal, or it was created.
Uh, no. It follows logically from your version of this law that the universe did not originate, and that it always existed, and therefor is not created. "It was created" is not a valid conclusion from your premise premise.
This happens to contradict a number of other natural laws, for example:
: Second Law - The Law of Increasing Entropy
: 1.Law Explained - Things have
become less ordered, and more random. The entropy has
increased. In any system [without outside help] entropy increases (becomes less ordered).
: 2.Law Applied - The universe had a beginning. The fact that it [the universe] is
running down,
becoming more random and less ordered points to a state where it was more ordered and with
less randomness. It had a beginning. That points to the universe not being eternal, but at some
point being created.
Reasonably correct. Congratulations, WW.
Problem is, an origin does not require a personal creator. Adding an unproven deity to the universe as an "explanation" actually makes the problem larger. It may sound odd that a universe is spontanously created, but a Creator-God that is powerful enough to create a universe is a much more difficult being to explain!
Another problem: You are no doubt totally unaware that the word "order" in thermodynamics has very little to do with "order" as we see it in everyday life. Quite the contrary in many cases.
If you for example clean up your room, organize all your books into alphabetical order, put all your clothes in the closet, etc, you have
decreased the order and increased the entropy of that room. So much for common sense!