Posted by To Gari [GLamotta] on April 02, 1999 at 07:55:34 {ppHCdFLRUMMSSTtTA17sboLUiPtahc}:
In Reply to: ****Memorial questions, pls answer posted by Gari on April 01, 1999 at 20:35:11:
Dear Gari,
It is interesting that you refer to John as stating that it makes it impossible for Jesus to have eaten the actual passover. And I concur along with many other commentators that recognize what you loosely mentioned and that is that the synoptic gospels seem to indicate that Jesus ate the actual Passover.
1. Of note, the Jews eat that passover on Nisan 15th. That's the traditional date.
2. Of note the Jews left Egypt the same night of Nisan 15th, not Nisan 14th (Numbers 33:3).
3. Of note this date which was to be so important was made into a holy day (holiday) that is a special sabbath day to be remembered at all times.
It was the 15th that made a special sabbath day, not the
14th.
4. The meal is eaten with "unfermented cakes" which is a clear indication that after sunset, the sabbath day of the "first day of unfermented cakes" began and that was when the actual meal was eaten.
So think of this from the standpoint of someone who is trying to harmonize the scriptures. They have to either choose the synoptics or John, but not both.
I can only assume that you are referring to John's and the synoptics reference that Jesus died on a day of "preparation for Passover" at John 19:14.
But please note that "passover" was a reference for the entire festival and thus since the passover festival contained two special sabbath days (Nisan 15th and Nisan 21st) there were also two special "preparation for passover" days, which were Nisan 14th and Nisan 20th.
Now if we presume that John 19:14's reference to "preparation for passover" was Nisan 14th, of course, there is conflict in the scriptures which say Jesus actually ate the actual Passover which traditionally was on Nisan 15th.
BUT...if we follow the synoptics and observe with ease that Jesus did in fact actually eat the Passover with his disciples on Nisan 15th, then obviously he did not die on Nisan 14th, nor on Nisan 15th since Nisan 15th was a sabbath day and they don't kill people on sabbath days...AND, obviously, since Jesus was raised on a Sunday, Nisan 15th was a Saturday in 33CE so there is no way he could be in the grave for "three nights" as Matthew 12:40 says.
Thus, if you choose to go with the synoptic gospels, then you have no other choice but to presume Jesus must have died on the following or next day of preparation, which was Thursday, Nisan 20th.
This first perfectly the phrase "preparation for passover" since "preparation" generally refers to the usual day before the usual sabbath which is a Friday. But since this was a Thursday and not the usual "preparation", it was necessary to make sure that it is understood that this was not the usual day of preparation but a special day of "preparation for passover", that is preparation for the passover sabbath day of Nisan 21st.
That being the case, there is suddenly no conflict in the synoptic gospels versus John and no conflict with Matthew 12:40 which requires Jesus to be in the grave for "three nights." Of course, there are three nights from Thursday night, Friday night to Saturday night, the night Jesus rose.
Now I know this is hard for you to accept, but can you understand why an honest person, who wants the Bible to be completely noncontradictory and who understands the flexibility of the language, would prefer to have Jesus die on Nisan 20th?
Can you see for some of them, that Nisan 20th is a much more honest choice since otherwise, they would have to say the synoptics were lying when they clearly show Jesus eating the passover meal on the traditional Jewish date of Nisan 15th and that Luke 22 is quite clear that it was Nisan 14th during the day when Jesus sent John and Peter out to prepare?
I'm not saying agree with me, but just can you see why some of us who need harmony in scripture don't want to choose one gospel over the others?
And can you see that if you admit to a direct conflict in scripture that the CHOICE is still there?
That is, you can reject the synoptics and interpret John 19:14's "preparation for passover" quite narrowly and have Jesus eating a prepassover meal...
OR
You can accept the synoptics and have Jesus eating passover on the 15th which means his death must be moved to Nisan 20th.
So all I'm saying is, can you see that if you choose the synoptics, you don't have to deal with a conflict between John and the synoptics? That is, John's statement of "preparation for passover" works with the synoptics for a Nisan 20th date?
So what I'm saying, from my standpoint is that I'm seeing you dismiss three gospels in favor of a specifical interpretation in John and a denial of Matthew 12:40 which requires Jesus to be in the grave for "three nights" when if he died on Nisan 14th, a Friday night, there are only two nights; Friday night and Saturday night?
Thanks for your reply?
Cheers,
Gary