Recently, I was able to get a hold of RCW superstar and legend-in-the-making Shane Destiny as he was preparing for his match against Hannibal Carver on River City Wrestling's pay-per-view Caged Rage 3. You'd think from his on-air demeanor, Destiny would be a bit ill-tempered, but he anything but. So, here's the interview, shedding some light on some unanswered questions and killing some myths of the star.
LZ: First off, I want to thank you for taking time out of your schedule for this interview. I know how busy a time this must be for you.
SD: I'm always glad to give an interview... I like to keep in touch with the people that pay my salary.
LZ: Over the past year, in fact, you've had the highest heights ever in your career. You captured the EMWC TV, Junior, and North American titles, beat Chris Courtade for the GLCW World Title and just recently won the River City Title in RCW. It's taken a couple years to get to this level, though, so are you satisfied with where you are in the wrestling world?
SD: In a way, I am. In RCW, and I hate to sound cocky or anything, but I'm one of the top five or six major players in the group. Of course, I've always been striving to improve... the goal of any wrestler should be trying to be recognized as the best in their game. I'm happy where I am right now, but there's more room for me to grow and I'd like to keep progressing.
LZ: Early on, though, you had to fight the image of being a cruiserweight and, from my viewpoint - and maybe I'm wrong - it seems like that was something of a disease to you at that point? Why did you hate that distinction, that classification so much?
SD: I didn't really hate being a cruiserweight... it's just that my style was so much more different than the other cruisers that I didn't really fit in there. I had much more of a heavyweight style, and I wanted to see if I could run with the heavyweights.
LZ: So why then did you recently add so much mass? Some, like me, saw it as a way to put a nail in the coffin of that "lightweight" label.
SD: This is going to sound really silly, but I had really chubby legs. [laughs] That's why I was wearing pants instead of actual tights! I went from 233 of muscle and fat, and I shed most of my fat during the Extreme J tournament... I actually was weighing close to 220 at one point. Then, I started to put on more muscle and I ended up around 248, 250. I'm down to around 239 now, though, since I haven't been hitting the gym as much with Roxie going to the doctor as much as she's needed to. But, to answer your question, I added mass because I wasn't really happy with being as chubby as I was getting, so I went into a "gym rat" phase and I was there for about three hours a day for six days a week.
LZ: I guess, personally, I've never seen why the industry has looked down upon the cruiserweight divisions. Most operators tend to view that as the third or fourth tier of talent in the fed when, in actuality, that's where the most talented performers are at. Many wrestlers, notably your peers Luke Kinsey and Juan Vasquez, were able to get past that distinction and have been "heavyweight stars".
SD: Oh, I agree. There's a lot of great cruiserweights out there, and I'm about to make a controversial statement, but most of them would get eaten alive against heavyweights. Guys like Kinsey and Vasquez have been borderline heavyweights anyway, but someone who weighs 180 pounds is going to need to turn up the suicidal stuff more. Jamie Haruhara's so talented, but he's under 170. Same thing with HERO Ishikawa, who I'm a big fan of. They're great cruiserweights, but I wouldn't believe them against heavyweights.
LZ: I can see your point in some ways, but don't you think the industry's changing so much so that someone like your protege, Haruhara, will be able to compete? These days it's rare to find a talented rookie or up-and-comer that's taller than 6'5" or weighs more than 240-250.
SD: I'd like to think that way, but I don't think it will change that much... I don't think we'll ever see a 170-pound heavyweight champion. My brother Jeff is 208 pounds, but he's short and he's as strong as a bull, so he's a believable champion. Wrestling always goes through mutations, but I don't think it will ever be that drastic.
LZ: Skipping to another topic, you and Roxie. I find this interesting since you've been on air together - Roxie as your valet or manager or however you want to classify it - playing a pretty major role in your career. Usually nowadays, all you ever see are these ex-strippers or failed actresses coming in and being nothing more than eyecandy. What, in your mind, made Roxie different from the rest?
SD: Just that she was taken so seriously by everyone... the fact that I'm actually married to her gave her a sense of legitimacy, I think. Roxie never wanted to be eyecandy, but she wanted to be a strong role model for women, someone who could lead her man to success without taking her skirt off in the process. I guess it succeeded, because she's considered to be something completely different than your average ex-stripper! [laughs]
LZ: Currently she's pregnant - congratulation, by the way -
SD: Thank you very much.
LZ: However, do you think that after she has the child and cares for him or her, she would come back on air more? And, on top of that, do you think she ever would have any aspirations of getting in the ring herself?
SD: It's not something we've talked about, to be honest. She has mentioned that she wants to be a stay-at-home mom and nurture our child as best she can, and if that's what she wants to do, then I'm all for it. I know that she misses the fans, but I don't think she'll ever go back on the road with me, if that's what you're asking. She has been in the ring before and wrestled a couple of matches... we actually wrestled together in a mixed tag in P*WIN once... but she didn't like it. She was always more comfortable getting heat at ringside.
LZ: Delving more into the past, you got some of your first big "watercooler" type showings in Grande Isle Wrestling. However, the way your tenure there ended - losing a best two out of three falls match to Jamie Roth - is really interesting to look at. After that, though, you've done nothing but gain in popularity while Jamie Roth isn't even on the radar of the wrestling world. Do you think leaving GIW at that point was a good move or would not have affected you in any way?
SD: I was spread so thin while I was in GIW that I had to depart. It sucked, I thought, because I wanted to wrestle all over, but I had commitments with EMWC and GLCW, and that was wearing me out. I remember one stretch of about three months without a day off, and I was slowly losing my mind. I actually talked with Jamie the other day, and he's doing well... he's not wrestling anymore, I think. I wish I didn't have to leave GIW, but I was going to break down if I didn't.
LZ: So out of all the places you've wrestled - P*WIN, Atlanic Coast Wrestling, RCW, GIW, EMWC, GLCW, IWF/WOW, which place did you feel most successful in? Most like your "home"?
SD: Of course, my "home" is P*WIN, which kind of hurts because they're no longer in business. I was with them from the very beginning and I was helping train people as much as I could. I think I was most successful in GLCW, because they gave me the chance to run as World champion... I really wanted to do the best I can, but unfortunately they had to go on hiatus. My little brother, Jeff Kujawa, is doing a great job for them now as the World champion, but yeah... I felt most successful there. Don't get me wrong, I've had great runs in EMWC and RCW... it's just that GLCW was probably my most successful to date.
LZ: P*WIN, for those of you out there that don't know, was the training ground for many of today's top wrestlers and most of who you still keep in contact with, right?
SD: I keep in contact with just about everyone that was brought into the business by P*WIN, or I try to. Right now, in fact, Chocomog KASAI is staying in the guest room at my house. [laughs]
LZ: And, of course, I have to go back to IWF/WOW. After EMWC closed, you immediately went there and still to this day it baffles me as to why. That place just seemed like one big good ol' boys place and you were just so much of an outsider there - seemed like you had to try extra hard just to get noticed.
SD: A lot of people have asked me why I went to IWF/WOW, and to be honest, I was looking at my schedule and didn't see a lot. At the time, it seemed like something really different for me to try... almost like a challenge for me to go into this place and in front of these fans where nobody really knows me. In the end, it didn't work, but I'd rather try and fail at something different than not try at all.
LZ: Now for some of the real dirt and I'll to the one that's been on my mind ever since the match went down last year.
SD: I know exactly what you're talking about! [laughs]
LZ: Yeah, you know what I'm asking about: Redemption, the Extreme J tournament. You and November faced off in the final match and, well, things started getting personal would you say?
SD: I wouldn't say that, but it was definitely not popular from what I've heard about it.
LZ: The whole disgrace, as many called it, was the way it ended with November using a move that you prided yourself on developing, The Destiny Strangle. That move took out some of the best in the game, but seemed to get bastardized then. Others I talked to at the time were saying that it wasn't so much that as it was the fact that you were made to look so weak after being built up as this 'cruiser crusher'. Now, I don't think publically you've said anything on the situation, so...
SD: No, I haven't... it's never really been asked of me before, I guess out of respect to what happened.
LZ: Well, sorry - don't mean any disrespect, but... It might rehash some stuff that's been under the bridge, but I got to know. Was that all planned? Or was it that since the title wasn't up for grabs, since you were in line for the Triple Crown, why not make another wrestler look good? And, before you answer, let me say that November was a very accomplished, promising wrestler in the eyes of many.
SD: Well, as you know, I went into Redemption with two broken ribs and a strained hamstring. During my match with Michael Keening earlier in the night, I broke another rib and was struggling to even stand up before we went out for the finals... nobody knew that, because I refused to visit the trainer. Our referee, and you'll have to pardon me because my memory during this all was pretty sketchy, told me that I looked very pale and that something was wrong with me, but I went out anyway. November ended up popping me in the head with something, and I don't remember what, and I was out on my feet for a couple of minutes. The next thing I can really remember was that blood was coming up my throat and I was vomiting blood on live pay-per-view. We got back into the ring... actually, November rolled me back in... and I could barely stand. November tried to get some extra heat and put me in my own finish, and told me to get to the ropes... but I had almost no strength left, because here I am, barely able to breathe, vomiting blood, and I was still really woozy from that shot to the head. Then, Todd Michaelson runs into the ring and calls for the bell because he said my eyes rolled into the back of my head, and they probably did. The fact remains, though, that wasn't what we planned and now I not only got knocked out on my feet, not only was I coughing up blood, but I got beat by my own finisher. Even the preview for the show called me the "worst junior heavyweight champion in history" because I hadn't defended the title, even though I had gone undefeated in the tournament up to that point.
I felt like there was an honest-to-goodness screwjob right there on pay-per-view. Roxie was in tears... you can watch the tape, she honestly thought they had screwed me over after intentionally injuring me. November had wanted the title on the line, but I was already penciled in for the Triple Crown, and without the Junior title, there was no shot for the Triple Crown for me. I didn't know what to think, but Roxie made me go right to the hospital. The next day, I actually went to Chris Blue and told him that I had quit, because two of his wrestlers aggravated a previous injury on pay-per-view and one of his commentators jumped into a match when, in the eyes of the fans, he had no business making a decision like that. We had bumped the ref and he was going to come back, but Todd jumped into the match. To this day, Todd and I still haven't discussed our differences, and I don't care to, if only because I think Todd Michaelson's a never-was piece of shit that didn't do anything in his career and lived vicariously through the people he could manipulate... as you can probably see by that group he runs, which I won't dignify by naming. Obviously, Chris and I smoothed things over, and it was the same with November. I honestly felt as if I couldn't use my own finisher anymore, so I went and developed three more.
In the end, I've moved on... people can spread their own conspiracy theories about it, but the fact remains that what happened wasn't planned, but I was badly injured and the match needed to end... I just wish that Todd Michaelson hadn't stolen the spotlight once again by pulling the same old shit that he's infamous for. Why else would he base the top feud of his group around himself and a washed-up drug addict who I also won't dignify by naming?
LZ: It's interesting, again, though - just like with Roth in GIW, it's you who's actually become bigger in this scenario. November, I don't think, has been seen in a while in the ring.
SD: I think he unfairly got a stigma around him because of what happened. I haven't talked to him since EMWC folded, but I wish him well.
LZ: So I doubt a try out in Pro Wrestling Revolution will never come about then? [Chuckles]
SD: No comment! [laughs]
LZ: However, PWR's already being considered one of the top training grounds in America. Jeremy Rhodes was one of the men responsible for training you early on in your career and really one of wrestling's under-appreciated people. However, he recently competed in PWR along with some of his students from his own training school, Ronin Dojo. You must've said something to him then.
SD: I really don't have a place to tell Jeremy where he can or cannot work. He's been wrestling since 1986, so I respect his longevity in pro wrestling and I respect his decisions. I was kind of upset about the Ronin Dojo splitting off from P*WIN, but he obviously felt it needed to be done. If he wants to compete somewhere, that's his decision. We're two totally different people.
LZ: Heh. Rhodes, though, like I said trained many stars of today. You, yourself, have started to get into not just the wrestling side of things, but also training others, correct?
SD: Actually, no. I was training people when I was working a lot of indies and trying to break into the big time, and when I signed my EMWC contract, I kind of cut back on training because I wouldn't be able to dedicate myself to it anymore. I do have some special sessions with Jeremy from time to time at the Ronin Dojo with the guys he has training there, but right now, I just don't have the time to be a head or assistant trainer anywhere. It's definitely a goal to "inherit" Jeremy's dojo, so to speak, because I want to give back to wrestling when it's time for me to retire.
LZ: You mentioned your brother earlier, the current GLCW World Champion Jeff Kujawa - did you train him as well? Or did he just take after you?
SD: Jeff was a natural. He actually enrolled in P*WIN and graduated in four months... the average time, if you can even pass through the classes, is about thirteen months, so Jeff blazed through everything. I did my best to give him pointers and to tell him what to do, and I admit that I was the one that called Frank Stanley and Blackie Vail and told them that he had my seal of approval. Even without my help, I think he would be where he's at right now. I honestly think that, with another year or so of seasoning, he'll be better than me. Of course, he needs to keep that temper in check.
LZ: Now, we're only a couple days away from the big RCW pay-per-view, Caged Rage 3, where you'll fight a man who's been dubbed by many as the future of the sport, Hannibal Carver. A great, unique competitor that's worked his way up just the same as you have. It seems that, for the most part, the feud that you carry are against those who weren't the Johnny-come-lately's, but rather guys who had to toil and work to the bone to get where they are today. Is that just a coincidence or is it a preference - a sign of your own work ethic?
SD: It's a preference. I go a hundred miles an hour in the ring... I prefer that the people I work with keep up. [laughs] Seriously, I have all the respect in the world for Hannibal, and our feud is something that a lot of folks have been looking forward to, if only because we work so hard. I always try to work with people that aren't lazy and don't expect me to work all the time to make them look good... you're only as good as the guy you work with.
LZ: It should be one great match. I guess I'll just wrap it up here with a couple quick questions... If you could change anything in your career, your past, what would it be?
SD: I would've loved to have a tag team run somewhere with Michelle Bailey. She's my best friend, and I'd really, really love to have a chance to be in a group with her somewhere longer than our brief stint in GLCW.
LZ: Hardest fought battle?
SD: Hmmm... probably the Powertrip final against Chris Courtade, because that was more of a match to prove my legitimacy as a heavyweight against someone who was arguably the top dog in wrestling. He didn't take it easy on me, either! [laughs]
LZ: Brightest moment?
SD: Unquestionably, winning the last main event in EMWC history. I know that the end of EMWC was so rough for me, but I don't think I could ever forget being handed three title belts on the last show. I'd have to say being the first match out for the restart of RCW with Madison Valentine, a good friend of mine, is pretty cool too... I ended one legacy and started another.
LZ: Well, I think that wraps it all up. I know you're busy preparing for your match, so I'll let you get back to that.
SD: Match? What match? It's going to be a war, man! Carver always kicks my ass! [laughs]
LZ: Heh, well I'll say here that I'll be rooting for ya as I watch. Thanks again for sitting down and answering some of the fans' questions.
SD: No problem.
- Lenny Zefring is the lead announcer for Championship Fighting Federation and head interviewer for Just The Facts! 3001. If you wish to setup an interview with Mr. Zefring, please e-mail us at [email protected] with the details