I would like to voice my strong objections regarding the broadcast of "A Walk on the Dark Side", by ABC Radio National on the 29.04.2001 and repeated on the 03.05.01.

The above mentioned program was prejudicial and slanderous towards Poland and the Polish people in general, and the population of the town of Jedwabne in particular.

To begin with, I can not see how a subject of this program can fit with the statement about the Spirit of Things as it appears on your Web Site.

Subject of Jedwabne has nothing to do with such issues as "adventure into religion and spirituality." or "beliefs as expressed through ritual, art, music, and sacred texts", but it is a part of history of WWII. So, I would like to know a real reason for inclusion of this subject in The Spirit of Things, as it doesn't fit in to profile of this series.

You chose to base your program on the book written by J. T. Gross, "Neighbors: The Story of the Annihilation of the Jewish Town", which supposed to be a case study of Jedwabne in the county of Lomza, the Province of Podlasie. Prof. J. T. Gross based his study on a few Jewish recollections and selected depositions of Polish witnesses, who had testified under torture by the Communist State Security Forces (UB). After only such shallow and very limited research, prof. Gross arrived at a conclusion about the alleged mass participation of the "Polish society" of Jedwabne in the Holocaust. He argues that it wasn't the German Nazis, or some Poles led by the Germans, but that "the Polish society" of Jedwabne spontaneously attacked and murdered its Jewish neighbours.

According to prof. Gross, on the 10.07.1941, without any German participation or encouragement, the local Poles an masse, all together in a orchestrated attack, abused, beat and murdered in a very gruesome way some of the Jews. They finally, herded the remainder of them, somewhere between 900 - 3300 people, (according to the various Jewish witnesses' testimonies) into the ordinary barn and burned them alive.

Perusing the first few pages of Jan T. Gross' book "Neighbours" one's hopes rise that here we will learn the truth about the crime of Jedwabne. The author is being introduced as a noted historian (by education he is a sociologist), professor of political sciences of the University of New York and author of essays on the subject of Polish-German-Jewish relationships in the years 1939-1948.

Unfortunately, as one reads his book, one is assailed by doubts whether the version presented in it is trustworthy.

On the subject of the witness testimonies and methodology that a historian should use in analysing his sources and then disseminating his findings, I would like to mention the statement that prof. Gross himself made in the book "Neighbours":

"As far as the craft of the historian who deals with the era of the gas ovens is concerned, I think we must radically alter our attitude toward the sources. Our initial attitude toward each testimony of near victims of the Holocaust should change from the inquisitive to the affirmative."

This is a startling statement because it would be practically tantamount to abandoning the scholarly standard.

In each instance, if possible, it is historian's duty to verify the sources, testimonies, recollections and memoirs against other documents. A history scholar needs to apply a rigorous litmus test to each testimony by checking it against other witness account and contemporary documents: Jewish, German, Polish, and Soviet. Finally, he has to divide recollections into first- and second-hand observations and classify their reliability accordingly.

Unfortunately, J. T. Gross doesn't adhere to such standards in his book. That's why "Neighbours" should be classified as a literary work and not as historical research, ergo not factual in every aspect.

The lack of scientific honesty on the part of prof. Gross, has been commented on by numerous historians, such as prof. Norman Davies, prof. Tomasz Strzembosz, dr. Marek Chodakiewicz, dr. Bogdan Musial, prof. Jerzy Robert Nowak, prof. Iwo Cyprian Pogonowski and many others, amongst them by dr. Slawomir Radon, chairman of the College of IPN (Polish National Remembrance Institute) conducting the present investigation headed by the state prosecutor Radoslaw Ignatiew. They accuse prof. Gross of drawing premature conclusions without a solid research of Polish and German archives and following up all possible leads.

Also prof. Pogonowski accuses prof. Gross of the outright manipulation of the documents in regard to another book written by J.T. Gross, "Ghastly decade, 1939-1948".

In his critique of this book, in the chapter "Gross falsifies quotations in order to make his points", prof. Pogonowski says:

"...On page 56, he changes the meaning of a sentence in the diary of dr. Zygmunt Klukowski (Dziennik z lat okupacji Zamojszczyzny - A diary of the years of occupation of Zamojszczyzna). Gross insinuates that in October 1942, Poles murdered some 2300 Jews while the Germans deported for execution 934 other victims. The deception is achieved by the omission of quotation marks; this changed the meaning of a crucial statement in the original diary, in which reference was made to locally stationed German gendarmes."

Strong words indeed, totally undermining prof. Gross's credibility as a historian. We can see that Mr. Gross is not a stranger to manipulation of his sources.

Prof. Gross names various sources that he relied on. Although he mentions various sources and refers to numerous historians, yet in his argumentation he is mainly relying on the statements of Shmul Waserstein, a Jew living in the town, but according to some witnesses, not present there during the massacre and who learned only after the war about the alleged scenario of the events in Jedwabne from a Jewish woman, Zeier, who was connected to the NKVD. (Teodor Eugeniusz Lusinski to the Institute of Jewish History, 20.03.95, according to dr. Marek Jan Chodakiewicz).

Other witnesses state that, he was in hiding in Janczewo, in the Wyrzykowski's house, during the time of the massacre, so wasn't able to observe any details.

This crown witness of prof. Gross, in Poland went under the name of Stanislaw Calka and not Waserstein, and after the war held the rank of lieutenant in the State Security Forces, dreaded UB. This fact was established by prof. Tomasz Strzembosz, who has been researching this period of Polish history for many years, based on depositions of two reliable witnesses who were interrogated by Waserstein (Calka) at the UB after the war. Prof. Strzembosz draws attention to the credibility of sources and other witnesses on which Gross relies.

Another witness whose testimony is used by J.T. Gross, Abram Boruszczak, never lived in Jedwabne, and another witness, Eljasz Gradowski, was sentenced by the Soviet authorities for stealing of some electrical equipment and deported to Soviet Union in 1940, well before the events in Jedwabne took place. He returned to Jedwabne in 1945.

Also, many questions can be asked in regard to the testimonies of the Polish witnesses as well. In the matter of the Polish witnesses' testimonies, Gross is extensively using the testimonies of people who were interrogated by the U.B. (Communist State Security Forces) in 1949. That organisation was well known for extracting statements from the suspects by using such methods as torture, sleep depravation, beatings and the threat of deportation to Siberia, not only for the suspects, but also for their families.

Most of the accused recalled their "confessions" in front of the court. This was not only an act of self-defence. It was also a sign of bravery. After all, the accused were immediately returned to the "tender, loving care" of secret police officers, who had tortured the confessions out of them in the first place. Here I would like to remind you, that prof. Gross's main witness was one of the functionaries in that apparatus. The confessions were in accordance with a preordained scenario, unofficially promoted by the Communist leadership who promoted the idea that Polish society was "fascist" and "reactionary", what was supposed to create an explanation for the repressive regime and an excuse for the West inaction.

Yet, it would appear that such facts have no meaning for prof. Gross, because throughout his book he extensively uses the testimonies of Karol Bardon, originally sentenced to the death penalty, which was commuted to a 15 years prison sentence. Any man subjected to such circumstances would tell anything that the interrogating officer wants him to say, simply to survive. What sort of pressure did the interrogating officers exert on him? What lies did he tell to save his life?

Testimonies and confessions obtained by such methods wouldn't be admissible in any court of law in any democratic country.

If you wish to read further about the subject of the 1949 Lomza trial, witness' testimonies and how prof. Gross manipulated and selectively quoted them, you can read article written by one of the foremost Polish historian, specialising in the history of Polish conspiracy on the north-eastern territories of the Polish Republic under Soviet occupation, professor of the Catholic University of Lublin and the Institute of Political Studies of the Polish Academy of Sciences (PAN), prof. Tomasz Strzembosz.

The above mentioned article can be found on the Web Site
http://www.geocities.com/jedwabne/english/index.htm (or http://www.iyp.org/polish/history/jedwabne/english/index.htm)
and under the title "Ultimate debunking of Gross".

Another Polish historian, Leszek Zebrowski stated about "Neighbours":

"What is happening now in connection with Gross's book can be described by a single word: hysteria. [...] Gross just cannot be criticised! And this book contains numerous errors and even obvious lies. For example, its author quotes sources (with page references, etc.) which do not contain this specific information, or which state something completely different. Also, by omitting important fragments, he manipulates their meaning, etc. "

And another Polish historian, Piotr Gontarczyk said:

There are many such questions one can ask after analytically, not emotionally reading prof. Gross's book and comparing his statements with various sources and researches done by Polish recognised historians. Many questions could be raised about the methodology used by prof. Gross.

Because of all these and other shortcomings, prof. Gross's book cannot form the foundation of any serious discussion about Polish history in general, and the crime in Jedwabne in particular. Ergo, can't be used to form any sort of moral judgement.

But lets look a little bit closer at the material and interview with prof. Gross contained of your program.

It opens with a very dramatic recitation of the supposedly eyewitness testimony, that aims to introduce the listeners of your program to the subject of Jedwabne.

Unfortunately, you didn't mention whose testimony it is. But people familiar with the subject know that these are the words of Shmul Waserstein, not a very credible witness, about whom I spoke at the beginning of my letter. Even communists political police, in contradistinction to prof. Gross, considered the Waserstein's depositions worthless for their show-trial of Polish anti-communists in Jedwabne.

After such a dramatic introduction enters prof. Gross himself. There is nobody to oppose his imprecise statements, the sole purpose of this interview is to allow prof. Gross to further spread his anti-Polish propaganda without any opposition. So, the groundless accusations can flow freely.

First is the number of the victims. Prof. Gross states 1600. Without any proof, any sources. You, yourself quote the number of victims on your Web Site as 1800. Also without enlightening your readers how did you arrive to such number.

In regard to prof. Gross at least we can speculate how he arrived to this particular number. (We have to speculate in this regard, because he doesn't mention any historical sources.) But on what basis did you arrive to your number of 1800? That's 200 more than prof. Gross.

This is probably how he arrived at that number. In his book, (Polish version) on the page 42, prof. Gross mentions the testimony of Menachem Finkelsztajn (Finkelstein?) who states that 3300 Jews were murdered in Jedwabne. On page 43, prof. Gross says that numbers provided by Finkelsztajn should be divided in half. (Such is credibility of the sources that he uses) So, prof. Gross arrives to the nice and tidy number of 1600.

But lets look at the cold facts of the documentary and physical evidence.

The Soviet census conducted in 1940 counted only 1400 Jews in the Jedwabne region, which also included the outlying town of Radzilow and the village of Wizna. In Radzilow, only three days earlier, an alleged 1500 Jews were also burned in a barn. If we also take into account the number of Jews that fled approaching German armies, this would put into serious question the number of victims in Jedwabne, where according to Mr. Gross and his witnesses 1600 perished.

The barn in question belonged to Bronislaw Sleszynski, who was a cabinet-maker, carpenter, supplementing his income by farming. He owned two hectares of land and was too poor to afford a huge barn or to have any use for it.

The barns in Poland are not big or very solid structures. Many of them are big enough to accommodate a horse drawn cart (remember, we are talking 1941) with the horse standing outside the barn. Most of the barns would have an area of 50-100 square meters. In the best case scenario, such a structure could accommodate maybe 100-300 people, with a lot of pressure applied to the outside walls. How Mr. Gross and his "eye witnesses" managed to fit into such a structure 1600 people is beyond common sense. It would have to be the biggest barn in 1941 Europe.

On page 78 of his book, (Polish version), prof. Gross is quoting the testimony of Leon Dziedzic, who was forced by the Germans to burry the bodies of the victims. And Leon Dziedzic says that the barn wasn't full. He says: "The left part of the barn was nearly empty, only single corpses were found there. There were more corpses in the middle part. And only on the right, there was a pile of bodies".

So, it's not just enough that the barn was too small to accommodate so many people, there was still some room left.

Also, according to the most recent news, archaeologists have localised the mass grave of the Jewish population in Jedwabne. In the opinion of prof. Andrzej Kola from the UMK Institute of Archaeology and Ethnology, the grave is approximately 7 meters long and 2 meters wide and could contain approximately 300 bodies.

Research of grounds was done by the means of the surface methods such as resonance, earth probe and geo-radar, and to the large extend are based on the military aerial photographs that were taken in the 1950 and 1953. Photographs are showing contours of the burned barn and disturbed soil.

Prof. Andrzej Kola also said:

"It is very regrettable that the Jewish side doesn't agree to the exhumation. In one-week time, we would be able to verify what the people are saying and what the author of "Neighbours" has written.

This could serve as a good lesson for the future. Many times I've found that the verbal testimonies of the witnesses have to be treated as not very reliable historical sources".

Further prof. Gross stated that there was no episode of the German participation beside taking of the photographs, and there was only token presence of the Germans, about 11 Gendarmes with maybe further 8 or 10 arriving in the morning of the 10.07.1941.

Such statements contained in prof. Gross's book are strongly disputed by many Polish historians.

State prosecutor Waldemar Monkiewicz, who conducted earlier investigation of the German activities in the Lomza district, in his extensive article entitled "Extermination of Jewish settlements in the Bialystok region in the years of 1939-1944", published in 1989 in the Bialystok University periodical "Studia Podlaskie" states, that among other events concerning the Jedwabne pogrom, there was active a so-called Kommando Bialystok led by Hauptsturmfuehrer Wolfgang Burkner from the Warsaw Gestapo office. Here is a translation of the relevant part:

"In the beginning of July 1941 from the German police battalions No. 309 and 316 were selected 200 men assembling a special troop called Kommando Bialystok under the command of the Wolfgang Burkner from the Warsaw Gestapo branch. That troop arrived to Jedwabne by trucks on the 10.07.41. For this action against the Jews, the Germans also used the Gendarmes and some of the "supporting police". This last formation was only used to bring victims to the main plaza and escort them outside the town. There the Hitlerites locked app. 900 persons in the barn and set it on fire..."

Somehow, I don't think that prosecutor Monkiewicz just "dreamed up" or made up those 232 Germans, trucks and the figure of Burkner.

According to prof. Szarota, such an officer existed in the Warsaw Gestapo, held the rank of SS-Hauptsturmfuehrer, and was probably killed in Poznan.

And Monkiewicz's findings are supported to a certain extend by the Polish historian dr. Marek Chodakiewicz, who is Instructor in History at Pierce College in California and an ABD in History at Columbia University:

"Professor Gross quotes the testimony of Aleksander Wyrzykowski to underscore the persistence of ugly anti-Semitism in the Jedwabne region even after the war. Alas, Gross failed to include in his lengthy quote Wyrzykowski's assertion that Germans murdered the Jews of Jedwabne with some Polish assistance. Further, Professor Gross analysed, but rejected the testimony of Sokolowska, who claimed that she had cooked a meal for "60 Gestapo men" on the tragic day. Both accounts thus flatly contradict the central thesis of "Neighbours"; Aleksander Wyrzykowski, AZIH, file 301/5825. By the way, Wyrzykowski's testimony is also suspicious. Only "Copy III" is available. Where is the original?..."

"The claims by Gross that on July 10 the SS-Einsatzgruppen were near Minsk, in Belorussia, notwithstanding, the presence of at least of a part of those units in the Bialystok area as late as the beginning of August 1941 is confirmed by the Gestapo functionary Waldemar Macholla, by the war diary of the 322 police battalion, by a study of the annihilation of the Jewish population in Choroszcz, a town not far from Jedwabne, and by the investigation of the Nazi crimes in the Bialystok area conducted in the 1960s in the then West Germany. (Szymon Datner, "German occupation security forces in Bialystok Region (1941-1944 in the German documentary material (Waldemar Macholla)", "Biuletyn Glownej Komisji Badania Zbrodni Hitlerowskich w Polsce [afterward BGKBZHwP], no. 15 (1965): 11; Kazimierz Leszczynski, "War diary of the Police Battalion 322" BGKBZHwP, no. 17 (1967): 216,218,222) "

Another eyewitness, Leokadia Blajszczak, recalls the presence of the German police as well, and blames a local Volksdeutsches for leading the pogrom. The same Jan Sokolowski also provides a very similar version of events. Another witness states that the town was "green from the German uniforms".

Nearly all of the Polish historians agree that there was some participation of the Polish population in the Jedwabne massacre. But the circumstances under which they participated in it are of the paramount importance.

Most of the witnesses state that the Germans were the chief perpetrators, and the Poles were simply forced to participate in it under a threat of violence against themselves.

Such statements are contained in the testimonies of the Polish witnesses, the same witnesses that prof. Gross selectively quotes, because the full quotation would contradict his central thesis of "Neighbours".

"I do not admit to being guilty, that in July 1941 I took part in the burning of Jews in Jedwabne and I explain, that on the critical day when I stood on my own courtyard a German came up to me, took me with him to the market, to guard the Jews, who had been driven to the market. As soon as the German walked away from me, I immediately ran away from the market..."

"I do not admit to being guilty and I explain: on the critical day when I was at home, gendarmerie came to my home with the mayor of Jedwabne Karolak and told me to go to the market and guard the Jews. Because I didn't want to go and tried to run away, the German hit me on the head with his gun [this was confirmed by the testimony of a number of witnesses] and he hit me in the face with his hand and knocked a tooth out. Then I stood there for around 2 hours. As soon as the German moved away from me, I ran away home. (...)"

"I do not admit to being guilty that in July 1941 I took part in the murdering of Jews in Jedwabne and I explain that on the critical day I was at home. During that time the mayor of Jedwabne Marian Karolak came to my flat with a Gestapo man and they took me to the market, where Jews were being brought..."

"At 12 a.m. to my house came Karolak Marian, the mayor, and a German gendarme, who kicked me. They took me to the Market of Jedwabne, where they ordered me to guard the Jews together with several 16- 17-year-old boys from the village (...) "

"In 1941 to my house came Karolak, a German mayor, and Bardon Karol and they ordered me to go to guard the Jews at the market, whom they were driving to the sugar market. I did not know what was going on and I went at the order of Karolak and Bardon. I was on the side of the Dworna Street and I had nothing in my hands."

And so on. Nearly all of them say the same thing: that the Germans forced the local men out of their houses and rushed them to the market square or made them "drive" the Jews.

Now in the last testimony one name is very interesting. Karol Bardon, the same Bardon who served in the German Gendarmerie unit, was sentenced to death and on whose testimony prof. Gross based a large part of his book. He quotes Bardon in regard to the events in Jedwabne on pages: 40, 41, 56, 57, 61, 63, 64, 65, 70, 71, 72, 73, 76, 77, 84. Very credible witness indeed.

In his next statement prof. Gross mentions some Jewish woman and the fact that she spoke to the priest. What was the name of this woman? What was the name priest?

Would it be as true, as the event that he describes in his book and regarding Bishop of Lomza, Stanislaw Lukomski?

There is a certain problem with the Bishop of Lomza, who according to Gross (page 52, 53, Polish original), accepted a tribute of money and silver artefacts from the Jewish delegation in exchange for protection. Gross even mentions Nielawicki's uncle, who went to Lomza in this delegation. According to Gross the bishop promised them such protection.

The only problem with this testimony is that bishop Lukomski went into hiding in the distant countryside in October 1939, because of threats from the Soviet NKVD, and emerged from his hiding place in August 1941.

Unless the location of his hideaway was common knowledge among the Jewish population, how did the Jewish delegation manage to find him and speak to him, so he could promise them the protection that prof. Gross speaks about?

Further prof. Gross speaks about Wyrzykowski family and how they were persecuted for hiding of the Jews, and is using this as an example of the Polish anti-Semitism.

Here is what dr. Chodakiewicz, who studied the same sources as prof. Gross, has to say on the subject:

"...Further, Gross uses Wyrzykowski as an isolated case of a Righteous Gentile who was persecuted after the war for having assisted Jews and was even forced to flee the area. However, according to Jewish and Polish witnesses, the Wyrzykowskis were indeed persecuted, and Aleksander's wife even savagely beaten, by bandits who wanted to extort from them the "Jewish gold" that they falsely assumed the couple had received for helping Jews. Were the bandits anti-Semites? Perhaps so. Clearly, however, they were not motivated by a desire to punish the Wyrzykowskis for their rescue of Jews, but by avarice. (See Jozef Gradowski, "Zaswiadczenie," 26 April 1967, AZIH, file 301/5825; Jan Sokolowski to Andrzej Kaczynski, editor of "Rzeczpospolita" 12 may 2000.)"

And then, at the end of your interview, prof. Gross stated that he is unable to explain why (in his opinion) one group of people, acting along ethnic divisions, an masse, without any reason, in some unexplainable attack of the collective amok, murdered their neighbours.

But maybe the reason is very simple, but prof. Gross doesn't want to state it, because it would contradict a central thesis of his book.

Maybe the Polish inhabitants of Jedwabne were forced by the Germans to cooperate in conducting the German plan of annihilation of the Jewish inhabitants of Jedwabne. Maybe the Germans required such participation of the local population for propaganda reasons? From the various witnesses' testimonies, or rather parts of their testimonies that prof. Gross saw fit to omit, we can see clearly the Germans going from house to house and under the threat of violence forcing the Poles to "drive" the Jews to market place and then guard them there, what allows them to take the photographs. From the latest documentary discovery, it is known that at least three Poles were burned in the barn together with the Jews. For what reason? Maybe they were the people who strongly refused to cooperate with the Germans, and suffered punishment for their resistance. But can we reasonably expect the same heroism from the whole population?

Lets don't forget that the main tool of control of the population in occupied Poland, the Germans were using wide spread terror and collective responsibility. Between 1939-1945, they totally annihilated 400 villages and towns, burning the buildings and killing the whole population. In case of any resistance from the Jedwabne population, they would not hesitate to do the same.

Don't forget the words spoken by A. Hitler on August 22, 1939, when he authorised his commanders, to kill "without pity or mercy, all men, women, and children of Polish descent or language. Only in this way can we obtain the living space [lebensraum] we need".

And on the 22.09.1939, he clearly stated his war aims: "The destruction of Poland is our primary task. The aim is not the arrival at a certain line but the annihilation of living forces - Be merciless! Be brutal - It is necessary to proceed with maximum severity - The war is to be a war of annihilation."

And such was the reality for the Polish population under the Germans. Germans did not ask. They gave orders. To disobey meant death. Or in the best case scenario, concentration camps.

But prof. Gross goes on and on, allowed by you, to spread half-truths and manipulations totally unopposed. By his propaganda and groundless accusations, he is deepening divisions, inciting hatred and resentment between two ethnic groups who suffered from the hands of the same enemy. And you, by giving him an unopposed voice in your program, are fulfilling a similar role.

I don't know the reason for prof. Gross's anti-Polish attitude. The same as I don't know the reason for your action of providing him with the opportunity to voice his propaganda on your program, even contrary to the statement contained on your Web site.

"The Spirit of Things" is an adventure into religion and spirituality. It explores contemporary values and beliefs as expressed through ritual, art, music, and sacred texts.

Dr. Rachael Kohn is an acclaimed broadcaster and is widely recognised as an expert in comparative religion."

I don't think that the subject of Jedwabne has anything to do with your field of expertise in comparative religions. Can you provide me please, with an answer as to what research you have done on the subject of Jedwabne, and on what basis do you think that prof. Gross was telling the truth to your listeners? Because he wasn't talking about "ritual, art, music, and sacred texts", but cold facts of history. History, that hasn't been fully researched yet, and is still a subject of an investigation by IPN.

Once again, as an Australian citizen and taxpayer, I strongly object against broadcasting such besmirching, inaccurate and inflammatory material by the government radio station that is funded by the Australian taxpayers.

Chris Janiewicz

1. C/C of letter to Ms. Amanda Armstrong, ABC National Acting Program Radio Manager.

As an Australian taxpayer and Australian citizen of Polish background, I would like to voice my strong objections regarding the broadcast of "A Walk on the Dark Side", by ABC Radio National on the 29.04.2001 and repeated on the 03.05.01.

The above mentioned program was prejudicial and slanderous towards Poland and the Polish people in general, and the population of the town of Jedwabne in particular.

To begin with, I can not see how a subject of this program can fit with the statement about the Spirit of Things as it appears on your Web Site.

Subject of Jedwabne has nothing to do with such issues as "adventure into religion and spirituality." or "beliefs as expressed through ritual, art, music, and sacred texts", but it is a part of history of WWII. So, I would like to know a real reason for inclusion of this subject in The Spirit of Things, as it doesn't fit in to profile of this series.

I would like to emphasise here, that ABC is a taxpayer funded institution, and as such shouldn't serve as a vehicle for the prejudicial slender against any of the Australian ethnic groups.