CJ's Apologia Posts
In June, 2001, I enrolled on the Apologia e-mail list where Christians and non-Christians alike battle out their inkhorn arguments and call each other names, or pipe in just to slap someone's back. But be warned: Those who post arguments and opinions which even slightly call the supposed validity of Christian theism into question are typically roasted to a fine, savory crisp in very short course. Point of order warnings from the moderators frequently fall harder on non-believers than on the accepted gung-ho crowd. Imagine that!
The entirety of my participation on the Apologia list can be divided into four primary sessions, with a brief interlude intervening the third and fourth sessions:
Session #1: CJ Questions the Validity of the Evangelical Mind-Game
In this session, I draw attention to the mind-game techniques of Christian evangelism and liken it overall to a kind of sales pitch routine, but with a catch and some unwitting performative inconsistencies which are usually not identified explicitly in Sunday school lessons. Not surprisingly, the believers participating didn't like what I had to say very much.
Session #2: CJ Questions the Harmony between Paul's Jesus and the Jesus of the Gospels
In this session, along with one other participant, I question the group about the vast differences between the Jesus of Paul's early letters, and the Jesus as portrayed in the later narratives known as the gospels. For instance, if the doctrine of Jesus' virgin birth is so important to Christian theology, why doesn't Paul mention it even once? The Jesus of the gospels runs a ministry in which he teaches in parables, but this is nowhere indicated in any way in any of Paul's letters. Again, the believers participating didn't like it very much when these embarrassing differences were pointed out.
Session #3: CJ Encounters the Clarkians
In this session, a number of fundamental philosophical issues are skirted by the participating followers of Gordon H. Clark's theological standpoint. Of special note is how much believers in this crowd evade direct questions and rely on character assassination instead of argument in order to "make their points." Coupled with the last two sessions, I became convinced that these Christians claim that a god exists for no better reason than that they want there to be a god. Of course, this epiphany didn't go over too well, either!
Interlude: CJ Takes one for the team
Session #4: CJ Shoots it out and rides off into the Sunset
In this session, CJ returns to the Apologia discussion list after having had his "microphone" removed by Christian moderator "markcham," who took offense at CJ's Feb. 2003 warning to new-comer Gary McNutt about what kind of lowdown tactics he should expect from the list's resident Christians. Special thanks to Gary for persuading list-owner Rob Mitchell to reinstate my "microphone."
So, sit back, poor a glass of wine and rummage through my posts.
Session #1: CJ Questions the Validity of the Evangelical Mind-Game
1. Post 23837 June 7, 2001: Re: Ambiguity
2. Post 23857 June 7, 2001: Re: Ambiguity
3. Post 23864 June 7, 2001: Giving Away the Game
4. Post 23867 June 7, 2001: Re: Giving Away the Game
5. Post 23878 June 7, 2001: Re: Giving Away the Game
6.Post 23880 June 9, 2001: Re: Ambiguity is in the Eye of the Beholder
7. Post 23883 June 9, 2001: Re: 14th Street and University Place
8. Post 23886 June 9, 2001: Re: 14th Street and University Place
9. Post 23887 June 9, 2001: Re: CJ's Wacky Allegorization...
10. Post 23890 June 9, 2001: Re: CJ's Wacky Allegorization...
11. Post 23922 June 10, 2001: Questions on Matthew 27:52-53
12. Post 23923 June 10, 2001: Questions on Mattew 21:21-22 and John 14:12-14
13. Post 23942 June 11, 2001: Re: Ambiguity is in the Eye of the Beholder
14. Post 23965 June 11, 2001: Re: Ambiguity is in the Eye of the Beholder
15. Post 23966 June 11, 2001: Re: Ambiguity is in the Eye of the Beholder
16. Post 23971 June 12, 2001: Re: Janelle on CJ
17. Post 23972 June 12, 2001: Re: Janelle on CJ
18. Post 23981 June 12, 2001: Re: Questions on Matthew 27:52-53
19. Post 24007 June 13, 2001: Re: Questions on Matthew 21:21-22 and John 14:12-14
20. Post 24040 June 15, 2001: Re: Questions on Matthew 21:21-22 and John 14:12-14
21. Post 24058 June 15, 2001: Re: Questions on Matthew 21:21-22 and John 14:12-14
22. Post 24059 June 15, 2001: Re: John Piper interacts with Ayn Rand's system of ethics
23. Post 24061 June 15, 2001: Re: Questions on Matthew 27:52-53
24. Post 24062 June 15, 2001: Re: Questions on Matthew 27:52-53
25. Post 24146 June 16, 2001: The Vacuum of Theism
26. Post 24148 June 16, 2001: Stoned for Wally's Sake
27. Post 24149 June 16, 2001: Re: John Piper interacts with Ayn Rand's system of ethics
28. Post 24173 June 17, 2001: Re: The Vacuum of Theism
29. Post 24174 June 17, 2001: Re: Questions on Matthew 21:21-22 and John 14:12-14
30. Post 24177 June 17, 2001: Re: Questions on Matthew 21:21-22 and John 14:12-14
31. Post 24190 June 17, 2001: Re: The Vacuum of Theism
Session #2: CJ Questions the Harmony between Paul's Jesus and the Jesus of the Gospels
1. Post 2631 Nov. 9, 2001: Re: Question/Paul
2. Post 26235 Nov. 10, 2001: Re: Question/Paul
3. Post 26237 Nov. 10, 2001: Re: Question/Paul
4. Post 26255 Nov. 10, 2001: Re: David vs the 3 Stooges
5. Post 26256 Nov. 10, 2001: Re: David vs the 3 Stooges
6. Post 24258 Nov. 10, 2001: Re: Question/Paul
7. Post 24259 Nov. 10, 2001: Re: Question/Paul
8. Post 24260 Nov. 10, 2001: Re: Question/Paul
9. Post 24261 Nov. 10, 2001: Re: Question/Paul
10. Post 24262 Nov. 10, 2001: Re: Question/Paul
11. Post 24268 Nov. 10, 2001: Re: Question/Paul
12. Post 24289 Nov. 12, 2001: Re: Question/Paul
13. Post 26290 Nov. 12, 2001: Re: David vs the 3 Stooges
14. Post 24292 Nov. 12, 2001: Re: Question/Paul
15. Post 24294 Nov. 12, 2001: Re: Question/Paul
16. Post 26328 Nov. 15, 2001: Re: From solid sky to infinity
17. Post 26341 Nov. 16, 2001: Re: From solid sky to infinity
18. Post 26343 Nov. 17, 2001: Re: From solid sky to infinity
19. Post 26345 Nov. 17, 2001: Re: From solid sky to infinity
20. Post 26364 Nov. 19, 2001: Still Missing the Point?
21. Post 26370 Nov. 19, 2001: Still Missing the Point?
22. Post 26372 Nov. 19, 2001: Re: Canon again
23. Post 26375 Nov. 19, 2001: Re: Still Missing the Point?
24. Post 26376 Nov. 19, 2001: Re: Still Missing the Point?
25. Post 26391 Nov. 20, 2001: Re: Still Missing the Point
26. Post 26392 Nov. 20, 2001: Re: hello again
27. Post 26406 Nov. 20, 2001: Re: Still Missing the Point
28. Post 26516 Nov. 25, 2001: Re: Virgin Birth
29. Post 26519 Nov. 26, 2001: Re: Virgin Birth
30. Post 26521 Nov. 26, 2001: Re: Mark McFall
31. Post 26586 Nov. 27, 2001: Re: better explanation
32. Post 26606 Nov. 27, 2001: Re: Virgin Birth (was Still Missing the Point)
33. Post 26610 Nov. 27, 2001: Re: Virgin Birth (was Still Missing the Point)
34. Post 26643 Nov. 28, 2001: Re: Clark and the evil empiricism
35. Post 26656 Nov. 29, 2001: Re: Clark and the evil empiricism
36. Post 26669 Nov. 29, 2001: Re: Clark and the evil empiricism
37. Post 26680 Nov. 30, 2001: Re: Clark and the evil empiricism
38. Post 26684 Nov. 30, 2001: Re: Clark and the evil empiricism
39. Post 26685 Nov. 30, 2001: Re: off list - apologia based on presuppositional
Session #3: CJ Encounters the Clarkians
1. Post 26713 Dec. 20, 2001: Re: Clark and the evil empiricism
2. Post 26716 Dec. 20, 2001: Re: Clark and the evil empiricism
3. Post 26725 Dec. 21, 2001: Re: Clark and the evil empiricism
4. Post 26760 Jan. 8, 2002: Re: Clark and the evil empiricism
5. Post 26773 Jan. 10, 2002: Re: Clark and the evil empiricism
6. Post 26907 Jan. 21, 2002: Brains and Prayer
7. Post 26911 Jan. 21, 2002: Re: Brains and Prayer
8. Post 26998 Jan. 24, 2002: Re: Brains and Prayer
9. Post 27002 Jan. 24, 2002: Re: Brains and Prayer
10. Post 27004 Jan. 24, 2002: Re: Brains and Prayer
11. Post 27008 Jan. 24, 2002: Re: Brains and Prayer
12. Post 27010 Jan. 24, 2002: Re: Brains and Prayer
13. Post 27017 Jan. 24, 2002: Re: Brains and Prayer
14. Post 27064 Jan. 30, 2002: Re: Brains and Prayer
15. Post 27083 Jan. 31, 2002: Re: Brains and Prayer
16. Post 27129 Feb. 7, 2002: Re: The major premise
17. Post 27197 Mar. 4, 2002: Re: Clark and the evil empiricism
18. Post 27220 Mar. 9, 2002: Re: Turin
19. Post 27225 Mar. 9, 2002: Re: Turin
Interlude: CJ takes one for the team
1. Post 27645 Feb. 17, 2003: Re: New to the Group
2. Post 27658 Feb. 17, 2003: Re: New to the Group
Session #4: CJ Shoots it out and rides off into the sunset
1. Post 29240 Jun. 30, 2004: Re: Point of Order
2. Post 29243 Jun. 30, 2004: Re: Point of Order
3. Post 29252 Jul. 3, 2004: Re: Point of Order
4. Post 29263 Jul. 5, 2004: Re: The Prosecution of Yahweh - Not!
5. Post 29264 Jul. 5, 2004: Re: The Prosecution of Yahweh - Not!
6. Post 29267 Jul. 6, 2004: Re: The Prosecution of Yahweh - Not!
7. Post 29269 Jul. 6, 2004: Re: Xian Examples
8. Post 29273 Jul. 7, 2004: Re: The Prosecution of Yahweh - Not!
9. Post 29279 Jul. 8, 2004: Re: Xian Examples
10. Post 29280 Jul. 8, 2004: Re: The Prosecution of Yahweh - Not!
11. Post 29283 Jul. 8, 2004: Re: The Prosecution of Yahweh - Not!
12. Post 29284 Jul. 8, 2004: Re: The Prosecution of Yahweh - Not!
13. Post 29293 Jul. 9, 2004: Re: The Prosecution of Yahweh - Not!
14. Post 29294 Jul. 9, 2004: Re: The Prosecution of Yahweh - Not!
15. Post 29297 Jul. 9, 2004: Re: Xian Examples
16. Post 29298 Jul. 9, 2004: Re: The Prosecution of Yahweh - Not!
17. Post 29301 Jul. 10, 2004: Re: The Prosecution of Yahweh - Not!
18. Post 29302 Jul. 10, 2004: Re: The Prosecution of Yahweh - Not!
19. Post 29310 Jul. 11, 2004: Re: The Prosecution of Yahweh - Not!
20. Post 29311 Jul. 11, 2004: Re: The Prosecution of Yahweh - Not!
21. Post 29312 Jul. 11, 2004: Re: The Prosecution of Yahweh - Not!
22. Post 29317 Jul. 11, 2004: Re: The Prosecution of Yahweh - Not!
23. Post 29320 Jul. 11, 2004: Re: The Prosecution of Yahweh - Not!
24. Post 29329 Jul. 12, 2004: Re: The Prosecution of Yahweh - Not!
25. Post 29335 Jul. 13, 2004: Re: The Prosecution of Yahweh - Not!
26. Post 29338 Jul. 13, 2004: Re: The Prosecution of Yahweh - Not!
27. Post 29339 Jul. 13, 2004: Re: The Prosecution of Yahweh - Not!
28. Post 29345 Jul. 14, 2004: Re: The Prosecution of Yahweh - Not!
29. Post 29347 Jul. 14, 2004: Re: The Prosecution of Yahweh - Not!
30. Post 29352 Jul. 15, 2004: Re: The Prosecution of Yahweh - Not!
31. Post 29355 Jul. 15, 2004: Re: The Prosecution of Yahweh - Not!
32. Post 29356 Jul. 15, 2004: Re: The Prosecution of Yahweh - Not!
33. Post 29357 Jul. 15, 2004: Re: The Prosecution of Yahweh - Not!
34. Post 29361 Jul. 15, 2004: Re: The Prosecution of Yahweh - Not!
35. Post 29364 Jul. 15, 2004: Re: The Prosecution of Yahweh - Not!
36. Post 29370 Jul. 16, 2004: Re: The Prosecution of Yahweh - Not!
37. Post 29371 Jul. 16, 2004: Re: The Prosecution of Yahweh - Not!
38. Post 29372 Jul. 16, 2004: Re: The Prosecution of Yahweh - Not!
39. Post 29375 Jul. 16, 2004: Re: The Prosecution of Yahweh - Not!
40. Post 29395 Jul. 17, 2004: Re: The Prosecution of Yahweh - Not!
41. Post 29400 Jul. 18, 2004: Re: The Prosecution of Yahweh - Not!
42. Post 29415 Jul. 21, 2004: Re: To Phil from Joseph - about the electron
43. Post 29421 Jul. 22, 2004: Re: prayer requets - lab analysis project
44. Post 29428 Jul. 22, 2004: Re: To Gary from Joseph
45. Post 29430 Jul. 22, 2004: Re: prayer requets - lab analysis project
46. Post 29433 Jul. 23, 2004: Re: The Prosecution of Yahweh - Not!
47. Post 29434 Jul. 24, 2004: Re: The Prosecution of Yahweh - Not!
48. Post 29441 Jul. 24, 2004: Re: The Prosecution of Yahweh - Not!
49. Post 29449 Jul. 25, 2004: Re: The Prosecution of Yahweh
50. Post 29465 Jul. 25, 2004: Re: The Prosecution of Yahweh - Not!
51. Post 29467 Jul. 25, 2004: Re: The Prosecution of Yahweh - Not!
52. Post 29472 Jul. 25, 2004: Re: The Prosecution of Yahweh
53. Post 29478 Jul. 26, 2004: Re: The Prosecution of Yahweh - Not!
54. Post 29479 Jul. 26, 2004: Re: The Prosecution of Yahweh
55. Post 29485 Jul. 26, 2004: Re: The Prosecution of Yahweh - Not!
56. Post 29486 Jul. 26, 2004: Re: The Prosecution of Yahweh - Not!
57. Post 29488 Jul. 27, 2004: Re: The Prosecution of Yahweh - Not!
58. Post 29491 Jul. 27, 2004: Re: History and Literature in Genesis
59. Post 29495 Jul. 28, 2004: Re: History and Literature in Genesis
60. Post 29496 Jul. 28, 2004: Re: History and Literature in Genesis
61. Post 29504 Jul. 28, 2004: Re: History and Literature in Genesis
62. Post 29509 Jul. 29, 2004: Re: History and Literature in Genesis
63. Post 29519 Jul. 29, 2004: Re: Another Tolstoy Quote
64. Post 29521 Jul. 29, 2004: Re: History and Literature in Genesis
65. Post 29526 Jul. 29, 2004: Re: History and Literature in Genesis
66. Post 29530 Jul. 29, 2004: Re: Self-Awareness to a non-theist
67. Post 29532 Jul. 30, 2004: Re: Self-Awareness to a non-theist
68. Post 29534 Jul. 30, 2004: Re: Self-Awareness to a non-theist
69. Post 29538 Jul. 30, 2004: Re: Self-Awareness to a non-theist
70. Post 29547 Jul. 30, 2004: Re: History and Literature in Genesis
71. Post 29548 Jul. 30, 2004: Re: History and Literature in Genesis
72. Post 29549 Jul. 30, 2004: Re: History and Literature in Genesis
73. Post 29550 Jul. 30, 2004: Re: Self-Awareness to a non-theist
74. Post 29556 Jul. 30, 2004: Re: Self-Awareness to a non-theist
75. Post 29562 Jul. 30, 2004: Re: History and Literature in Genesis
76. Post 29566 Jul. 31, 2004: Re: Self-Awareness to a non-theist
77. Post 29567 Jul. 31, 2004: Re: Self-Awareness to a non-theist
78. Post 29577 Jul. 31, 2004: Re: Self-Awareness to a non-theist
79. Post 29578 Jul. 31, 2004: Re: Self-Awareness to a non-theist
80. Post 29587 Jul. 31, 2004: Re: Self-Awareness to a non-theist
81. Post 29588 Jul. 31, 2004: Re: History and Literature in Genesis
82. Post 29596 Aug. 1, 2004: Re: History and Literature in Genesis (addition for clarity)
83. Post 29611 Aug. 2, 2004: Re: Self-Awareness to a non-theist
84. Post 29613 Aug. 2, 2004: Re: Self-Awareness to a non-theist
85. Post 29618 Aug. 2, 2004: Re: History and Literature in Genesis
86. Post 29619 Aug. 2, 2004: Re: The Prosecution of Yahweh - Not!
87. Post 29620 Aug. 2, 2004: Re: Self-Awareness to a non-theist
88. Post 29624 Aug. 2, 2004: Re: The Prosecution of Yahweh - Not!
89. Post 29628 Aug. 3, 2004: Re: Self-Awareness to a non-theist
90. Post 29639 Aug. 3, 2004: Re: Self-Awareness to a non-theist
91. Post 29652 Aug. 4, 2004: Re: The Prosecution of Yahweh - Not!
92. Post 29653 Aug. 4, 2004: Re: Self-Awareness to a non-theist
93. Post 29655 Aug. 4, 2004: Re: The Prosecution of Yahweh - Not!
94. Post 29658 Aug. 4, 2004: Re: The Prosecution of Yahweh - Not!
95. Post 29668 Aug. 5, 2004: Re: Self-Awareness to a non-theist
96. Post 29670 Aug. 5, 2004: Re: Self-Awareness to a non-theist
97. Post 29672 Aug. 5, 2004: Re: Self-Awareness to a non-theist
98. Post 29675 Aug. 6, 2004: Re: Self-Awareness to a non-theist
99. Post 29678 Aug. 7, 2004: Re: Self-Awareness to a non-theist
100. Post 29694 Aug. 8, 2004: Re: Question
101. Post 29701 Aug. 10, 2004: Re: Self-Awareness to a non-theist
102. Post 29702 Aug. 10, 2004: Re: Self-Awareness to a non-theist
103. Post 29706 Aug. 12, 2004: Re: The Prosecution of Yahweh - Not!
104. Post 29707 Aug. 12, 2004: Re: The Prosecution of Yahweh - Not!
105. Post 29711 Aug. 13, 2004: Re: The Prosecution of Yahweh - Not!
106. Post 29722 Aug. 15, 2004: Re: The Prosecution of Yahweh - Not!
107. Post 29733 Aug. 15, 2004: Re: Question
108. Post 29742 Aug. 15, 2004: Re: Digest Number 1303
109. Post 29752 Aug. 16, 2004: Re: A Challenge to Gary the Skeptic and Deism
110. Post 29769 Aug. 16, 2004: Re: prayer update - I got an A-!
111. Post 29778 Aug. 16, 2004: Re: A Challenge to Gary the Skeptic and Deism
112. Post 29779 Aug. 16, 2004: John the Baptist's Cave Discovered?
113. Post 29805 Aug. 20, 2004: Re: John Steinbecks' "East of Eden" by Joseph Y. Lee
114. Post 29809 Aug. 20, 2004: Re: John Steinbecks' "East of Eden" by Joseph Y. Lee
115. Post 29814 Aug. 20, 2004: Re: The Prosecution of Yahweh - Not!
116. Post 29821 Aug. 21, 2004: Re: John Steinbecks' "East of Eden" by Joseph Y. Lee
117. Post 29822 Aug. 21, 2004: Re: A Personal Challenge from Another List
118. Post 29824 Aug. 21, 2004: Re: A Personal Challenge from Another List
119. Post 29827 Aug. 21, 2004: Re: A Personal Challenge from Another List
120. Post 29831 Aug. 21, 2004: Re: A Personal Challenge from Another List
121. Post 29832 Aug. 21, 2004: Re: A Personal Challenge from Another List
122. Post 29834 Aug. 21, 2004: Re: A Personal Challenge from Another List
123. Post 29837 Aug. 21, 2004: Re: Point of Order
124. Post 29851 Aug. 22, 2004: Re: The Prosecution of Yahweh - Not!
125. Post 29856 Aug. 22, 2004: Re: A Personal Challenge from Another List
126. Post 298574 Aug. 22, 2004: Re: A Personal Challenge from Another List
127. Post 29913 Sep. 6, 2004: Re: Self-Awareness to a non-theist
128. Post 29914 Sep. 6, 2004: Re: Begotten?
129. Post 29915 Sep. 6, 2004: Re: Self-Awareness to a non-theist
130. Post 29920 Sep. 6, 2004: Re: Self-Awareness to a non-theist
131. Post 29921 Sep. 6, 2004: Re: Atheism as non-belief
132. Post 29926 Sep. 6, 2004: Re: Self-Awareness to a non-theist
133. Post 29927 Sep. 6, 2004: Re: Atheism as non-belief
134. Post 29929 Sep. 6, 2004: Just what is an "immaterial" being?
135. Post 29930 Sep. 6, 2004: Re: Atheism as non-belief
136. Post 29938 Sep. 7, 2004: Point of Order
137. Post 29941 Sep. 7, 2004: Re: Point of Order
138. Post 29950 Sep. 9, 2004: Re: Just what is an "immaterial" being?
139. Post 29951 Sep. 9, 2004: Re: Just what is an "immaterial" being?
140. Post 29954 Sep. 11, 2004: Re: Just what is an "immaterial" being?
141. Post 29966 Sep. 14, 2004: Re: Self-Awareness to a non-theist
142. Post 29968 Sep. 14, 2004: Re: Self-Awareness to a non-theist
143. Post 29970 Sep. 16, 2004: Re: Self-Awareness to a non-theist
144. Post 29971 Sep. 16, 2004: Re: Self-Awareness to a non-theist
145. Post 29974 Sep. 23, 2004: Re: Prayer request
146. Post 29976 Sep. 24, 2004: Re: Prayer request
147. Post 29978 Sep. 25, 2004: Re: Prayer request
148. Post 29980 Sep. 25, 2004: Re: Prayer request
149. Post 29982 Sep. 27, 2004: Re: Prayer request
150. Post 29985 Sep. 28, 2004: Re: Prayer request
151. Post 29991 Sep. 29, 2004: Re: Prayer request
152. Post 29994 Sep. 30, 2004: Re: Prayer request
153. Post 29997 Sep. 30, 2004: Re: Prayer request
154. Post 30001 Oct. 1, 2004: Re: Prayer request
155. Post 30002 Oct. 1, 2004: An eternally miserable being
156. Post 30012 Oct. 3, 2004: Re: Born Again Catch-22 ( was Re: Apologia Prayer request)
157. Post 30013 Oct. 3, 2004: Re: Born Again Catch-22 ( was Re: Apologia Prayer request)
158. Post 30015 Oct. 8, 2004: Re: Born Again Catch-22
159. Post 30031 Oct. 20, 2004: Re: Evidence for the Resurrection
160. Post 30038 Oct. 20, 2004: Re: Evidence for the Resurrection
161. Post 30048 Oct. 22, 2004: Re: Evidence for the Resurrection
162. Post 30052 Oct. 22, 2004: Re: Evidence for the Resurrection
163. Post 30053 Oct. 22, 2004: Re: Correction and apology to the list
164. Post 30057 Nov. 2, 2004: Re: Born Again Catch-22
165. Post 30059 Nov. 4, 2004: I'm not making this up!
166. Post 30069 Nov. 9, 2004: Re: I'm not making this up!
167. Post 30073 Nov. 9, 2004: Re: I AM OFF THIS LIST, HERE'S WHY...
168. Post 30075 Nov. 10, 2004: A message from a fuming Corey, and my response
169. Post 30081 Nov. 12, 2004: Re: Carubemil Jex is Nicknbr22 and Dawson Bethrick
170. Post 30082 Nov. 12, 2004: Re: Does "nothing" actually exist?
That's all, Folks!
Return to: