Presidential Flame

Beta Three Application Closed

My Response

Folders of Darkness - OPEN FOR BUSINESS!

Beta 3 BS

Lum's Other Half Visits Ablion

Site Updates

Final Statement Apr 13, 2001

Well, since the s**t storm that I created is finally starting to die down, I thought that I'd close this off with a few final comments. Tomorrow, this will all be forgotten, but maybe not completely. Tomorrow, I WILL move this whole thing onto its own page.

Responses

First, I'd like to comment about the responses that I've gotten on the boards. Some have come as support for me and my post, some as constructive flames, and both are welcome by me. Flaming must be the part of any good discussion, as long as they are constructive. However, most of the responses that I have read from the boards have been juvenile and/or plain stupid. Ranging from WTG Mark to calling me a living piece of s**t. The funny thing about all of these is the general tone that I am acting juvenile. I believe that I am far from acting in that manner. Repeatedly, I have stated that my entry into beta WILL NOT impact my feelings for this game. NO MATTER IF I DO OR DO NOT ENTER BETA, I WILL CONTINUE TO SUPPORT DAoC. I will do this on this site, through my posts on the boards, and in any other avenue available to me. However, I will not hesitate to make comments about situations or news that I feel deserve a appropriate negative statement.

Entitlement

There is also a general vein running though the commentary that I feel some kind of entitlement to gaining a beta account. I feel no such entitlement. It is true that I started this site after the announcement that decently constructed sites would gain a beta account. Yes, that was some motivation for posting the site. However, I refuse to allow this site to become nothing more than a Beta Whore site. To this effect, I will continue to post my responses to situations within the community and game as I see fit.

I do however feel an entitlement to knowing what the status of beta selection is. I submitted a beta application with my personal data, I do have the right to know what the status of that application is. I would like to know what progress has been made toward selecting beta tasters. Both of these I believe are reasonable. Simply stating that all emails have been sent is inadequate in this case. There will always be a question if I will EVER enter beta. 5000 spots have been promised, fine, lets see 5000 names. That way there will be a definitive answer for everyone to if they have been selected. This is only fair to everyone who has applied.

There is also this concept running through the boards that since no money has been paid, no customer service is due. Fine, ok.. So if your time and effort and attention is worthless, why do advertisers pay thousands of dollars for it? The DAoC community in general has paid a great deal toward DAoC, more than simple money. They have paid with their time and creativity. And yes, Mythic does give back, but realize, We do NOT owe them for our attention, THEY OWE US. And the beta is one way to repay people, with a greater chance to contribute toward their product. Only in the game industry does this kind of event take place.. And yet we feel that we owe them for the privilege to help them improve their product! The least they can do is allow people who are waiting with anticipation for the beta announcement the satisfaction of knowing if they are in or out.

Conclusion

I dont know.. I'm tapped out with this whole thing. If my post was trollish, whatever the hell that is, fine. But I will not apologize for stating my opinion. I am glad that Mark did reply to my post. But when I first read it, I was shocked with the general tone. Companies should be held to a higher standard than that of the player base, and Mark in his post made a personal attack on me. Fine. I accept that. In reality, I dont care. My statements were made in general about the company, not about any specific person, Mark chose to change that.

Hate me if you want, I'll be around. But hey, it did get a response and gave something for the news sites to post.

ConceptDog The Heretic

Presidential Flame! Apr 13, 2001

Well, its a rare honor and a privilege.. But I get personally flamed by the President of Mythic, Mark Jacobs! Here is a complete posting of his response to what was, in effect, the message echoed in the news below:

CD,

>>>>Lets face it, they said 5000 will be selected.. not 5000 will be getting in.
Umm, no. If you are going to troll or flame us, at least get all your facts straight. I've have said a number of times that:

1) We will select 5000 (or more) people to participate in the Beta 3 stage.

2) That we will let in 1000 people over the next few weeks in order to keep some semblance of order as well as to stay within our bandwidth.

3) That we may let in more people before E3 if things go well. Obviously it would be foolish to let in more people if the results from doubling our beta crew are bad.

4) That all 5000 (or more) will get in as the beta progresses. We are doing this for obvious reasons including bandwidth, hardware costs, support, etc.

>>>>Will we ever know the ACTUAL figure of how many people got into beta? Maybe.
Maybe this has all been a ploy by us? Maybe this is a conspiracy to garner support for a product that will never exist? Maybe you are confusing us with someone else. I think we've been more honest with our beta testers and the community that anyone else but who knows?

>>>>But, not posting the ENTIRE list of selected beta testers is a public relations ploy. Typical corporate BS, plain and simple.
Interesting. Please elaborate on why this is BS. Maybe, just maybe you could have asked us:

CD: Hey, have you guys picked the whole 5000?
Mythic: Nope. We are not picking the entire 5000 now for a lost of reasons.
CD: Oh? Why?
Mythic: Selecting 5000 people is a very time-consuming process, even if some of the selection is random. We must do a sanity check on the apps and we must also deal with the spots (and therefore select)the people who will be invited in. Doing that would take a ton of time and would cost us a few days of work. Anyway, with only 1000 getting in at first, why does it matter if we list the entire 5000?
CD: Because we deserve to know!
Mythic: Well, I don't really agree. Also, we want to ensure that those who have been supporting us for many months don't get lost in the shuffle. They will be given priority in getting in first.

>>>The fear is: If Mythic posts the entire list of selected beta testers that will actually SEE the inside of the game before the end of beta 3, it may drive a good chunk of their iffy fan base off to find another game that has a chance to enter beta soon.
Not on our end. If people go to another game because they didn't get selected for beta, that doesn't bother me one bit. It's a player's priviledge to play whatever game they want. I could care less if people want to play another game's beta simply because they didn't get in our beta. That's their priviledge and their right and I support it 100%. If I was as worried about this as you seem to think, I would make lots of other promises to people and I would have said that would be 25K beta slots or more. The reasons for us not posting are simple and covered above.

>>>>Meanwhile, the rest of us who are going to be with this game beta or no are left with the short end of the stick.
Really? How are you left with the short end of the stick? Are you saying that everyone who wants to get in to DAoC should be let in? If you don't get selected and I post a list, would you then get shafted? Beta is a priviledge not a right.

>>>>If you respect the community and the feelings of its members, send out all the Beta EM's NOW or post a list of people who will EVENTUALLY enter beta.
I love when people yell at me here. I do, I really do. It gives me a warm and fuzzy feeling. I also love it when people speak for the whole community without the juice to do so. In your case since you have been a member here since April 1, 2001, how can you presume to speak for the whole community?

>>>>My two cents. Staggered Ems is BS.
And as the saying goes, you get what you pay for. In this case, two cents worth of advice.

In summation:

Troll, troll, troll your flame
Gently through the 'Net
Angrily, angrily, angrily, life is not a game.

Mark (Jacobs)

Feel free to read the entire thread here.

Posted By: ConceptDog The Heretic

My Response Apr 13, 2001

And here is the response that I posted in the same thread to Marks post:

I'm sorry, I thought this was a discussion board.. Guess I was wrong..

Negative Statements are unwelcome here, now I know!

Ok.. I see.. I get it.. This is the Mythic LOVE BOARD. Anything that could be REMOTELY negative gets greeted with mundane TROLL statements.

I get TROLLED for posting a possible problem. But it did get a response dident it?

Things have become clearer now, after Mark clarified some statements.

Sheesh.. I dunno.. Whats the point.. But I WILL go through Mark's post. But before I do that:

*Takes the box of constructive critism and throws it out the window*

Also, it is evident that while I should not presume to speak for the community, Mark SHOULD speak for me:

"CD: Hey, have you guys picked the whole 5000?
Mythic: Nope. We are not picking the entire 5000 now for a lost of reasons.
CD: Oh? Why?
Mythic: Selecting 5000 people is a very time-consuming process, even if some of the selection is random. We must do a sanity check on the apps and we must also deal with the spots (and therefore select)the people who will be invited in. Doing that would take a ton of time and would cost us a few days of work. Anyway, with only 1000 getting in at first, why does it matter if we list the entire 5000?
CD: Because we deserve to know!
Mythic: Well, I don't really agree. Also, we want to ensure that those who have been supporting us for many months don't get lost in the shuffle. They will be given priority in getting in first."

According to Mark, using my direct pipeline to god (or the developers, or whatever), these are the questions I should have asked (or did ask, or whatever).

Also, please notice there is not response to the possibility that delaying the release of selected beta testers will keep more people checking the fan sites and major sites for information about the beta and more game information in general.

" Maybe this has all been a ploy by us? Maybe this is a conspiracy to garner support for a product that will never exist? Maybe you are confusing us with someone else. I think we've been more honest with our beta testers and the community that anyone else but who knows? "

Maybe it has! But you dident answer your own questions or respond with any definiative answers.

I have made NO statements stating that the game is Vaporware. Typically Vapor doesnt enter 3rd beta.

I also have no knowledge of honesty for the beta testers. Honesty with the community? I am more than willing to put full faith in your statements! But the final test wont be until the games release! Thus the nature of following a game that has not been released.

In addition, there has been the need to clarify SOME of your statements Mark. The Make a Site, Get Beta statement comes to mind.

"Really? How are you left with the short end of the stick? Are you saying that everyone who wants to get in to DAoC should be let in? If you don't get selected and I post a list, would you then get shafted? Beta is a priviledge not a right."

If I dont get selected (which is prolly assured now.. and you post a list.. Good! Great! Now I know! I wont have to wonder! I can deal with the dissapointment and move on! The song goes 'the waiting is the hardest part' right?

Yes, beta is a privledge.. But so is collecting 33000 entries of personal data and the hopes of 33000 persons.

Why not let us know how many applications actually panned out? Might raise the hopes of a few.

Why not let us see a list of the 1st 1000 selected? Might allow us to finally stop checking our E-Mail in hopes of gettings accepted!

Might finally allow these boards to return to constructive discussions and avoid the thousands of 'Did you get Beta?' threads!

"In your case since you have been a member here since April 1, 2001, how can you presume to speak for the whole community?"

Well... You can speak for me... But beyond that:

ATTENTION LURKERS:

YOU ARE NOT PART OF THE COMMUNITY. GO AWAY.

My first post was on Apr 1. That does not mean I have not been reading here and on other sites before that.

"And as the saying goes, you get what you pay for. In this case, two cents worth of advice."

Flaming by me = bad. Flaming by a company president = good!

In summation:

"Troll, troll, troll your flame
Gently through the 'Net
Angrily, angrily, angrily, life is not a game."

Bad negative staement about us, down! Quick! Hit it with a stick and dodge with shouts of troll!

Dont worry Mark! This is good practice for ya! Wait until release... Remeber EQ!

In summation:

This was not ment as a Troll post. This was mearly speculation.

And just in case you all were wondering what I'm gonna do now:

I'm gonna keep posting. I'm gonna keep my site going. I'm gonna keep supporting this game which has great potential.

AND I'm gonna keep stating my speculations and responses to news and opinions.

and If I now have to become a heretic in the process, so be it.

Just to finish, this was written quickly, so flame away for spelling.

Once again, you can read the entire saga here.

Posted By: ConceptDog The Heretic

Beta 3 BS Apr 13, 2001

Its been a few days since my last update, so this might be a somewhat longer post...

In Beta 3 news, the first round of Beta 3 EMails have apparently been sent... But I've been watching the DAoC Dev Boards over at Vault and to my knowledge, NO ONE HAS POSTED GETTING ONE YET!

I know that were all mature, those of us who are part of the DAoC Community right now, but if they were sent out... None of the regular posters at the boards have gotten on yet. We all know that if any of us had gotten one, we would have run screaming over to post the good new (AKA GLOATING) then run to download.

But I'm still a little hopeful.. Well.. It is the long weekend and I've got work to do, so I'll be a little more bitter next week. (IF I havent gotten and EMail that is, *wink wink Mythic*)

Now, in other Beta 3 news, one part of the official EMail announcement was particularly intresting:

"We will be sending these letters out in increments over the next two weeks or so. A message will be posted here when all phase 1 beta 3 acceptance letters have been sent."

Heres the thing, phase 1 will only be 1000 testers, and phase 1 is the only part of Beta 3 that is ASSURED to move forward. But in the initial Beta 3 announcement, it stated that there would be 5000 spots.

So what does this mean? Simple, there may be only 1000 testers.

In addition to this, although there has been a general feeling of Day Before Christmas anticipation running throught the Community in general, MYTHIC HAS CHOSEN TO TORTURE US making us wait perhaps months before recieving a EMail.

And believe it or not, there is a good reason for this: They want to keep the attention of people who may only be in this for the chance at beta.

And that IS a good reason, but personally, I think that Mythic should be rewarding and appreciating the community that they presently have, not looking to keep people marginally intrested in hanging around. Most of these people wont stick with the game anyway, prefering to return after release.

So what would I like to see? Simple:

MYTHIC should post the complete list of every actually accepted application and the final total number of approved applications. Accepted application being people who MAY eventually enter beta.

There.. Thats my rant. And even if I dont get in, I'm still gonna follow the game and this stie will continue to be around.

Posted By: ConceptDog

Site Updates Apr 13, 2001

Well, its the long weekend! Expect a few site updates over the next few days, as time permits. Hey, I've got school, and that has first priority.

Surfing through this site, you may notice that ALOT of pages have Coming Soon attached to them.

There is a good reason for that: There isint anything to post there.

I'm not apt to go through and just post crap in every catagory so there is something to read. I dont have the time, and I wouldent expect anyone to read it.

I WILL post my speculation about each area as new information becomes available. In that regard, expect information about the Spirit Master to be coming in soon.

I also plan to go back through the dev chats and see if there is any specific class related information, or spell information that could be applied to any of our three classes.

Anyway, the main message is: Stay Tuned! At the very least, I'll post my take on the news as it occurs here on the main page!

Beta 3 Application Closed! Apr 9 2001, 11:39 am EST

Well, today is the day. The beta 3 applications page on Mythic's DAoC site has finally closed.

In total, there were 33 000 applications over the seven day period.

Mythic will open beta 3 this week with 50 new testers taken from the 33 000. The beta will continue with new additions each week up to the total of 5000

Good luck to all those who applied! (Including Myself :)

Filed By: ConceptDog

Folders of Darkness - Open for Business! Apr 8 2001, 9:16 pm EST

Welcome to the premier of the only DAoC fan site (that I know of :) dedicated to the darker casters of all three realms!

Please feel free to explore the links and send in comments! I've currently got some discussion set up on EZ board. While EZ board service leaves much to be desired, its free! (Just ignore the banners, as it seems all of us do anyway!

I'm currently looking for people who are interested in writing fiction for any of the three character classed profiled here on the site. Right now, since only a few of us actually have access to the game, I felt that user created fiction should be based more around what you envision how the different classes should be role played.

I'm also in need of some excellent mage related screen shots. Particularly those displaying magic effects.

To finish, I have to give props to Lum the Mad. I kind ripped some elements of this design off from him, but its is all created by hand.. And there are some changes. Check his sits here.

Welcome and enjoy the site!

Filed by: ConceptDog

Lum's Other Half Visits Albion Apr 8 2001, 9:16 pm

Lum's Wife recently visited DAoC. Playing a caster character, there are several excellent mage screenshots included in the review! Something thats kinda lacking on the sites right now.

Oh ya, and the review is positive too! (To the shock of everyone who frequents the site)

Read the review here.

Filed by: ConceptDog