Megan Radclyffe Did you perform in the States?
Amy Lamé Not at all. I did a really academic degree at university, I did French language and literature and mediaeval history or studies, which is more inter-discplinary and I dropped out the school play when I was 11 'cos they told me I had to wear a green leotard and there was no way I was getting on stage in a green leotard. I was never really interested in performing. That's why... I totally fell into it and I never imagined would be doing what I'm doing now.
I came here and thought I'll work and do my MA and I had an interview and everything and it was at the same time that my first show Gay Man Trapped In A Lesbian's Body was accepted at the ICA, and I was like, am I going to do my MA or see how far this performance thing can go? So I wrote and said I can't do the MA.
MR What prompted you to write Gay Man Trapped In A Lesbian's Body?
AL I'd always been into writing stories, poetry, whatever and I just got the idea to write a sort of autobiographicAL piece. It came out of anger more than anything, I showed it to somebody who said you should submit it to the ICA [contemporary arts museum performance space in London] 'cos they have a platform for new artists, and I did it on a whim without an idea of ever putting it into a show, and it got accepted, and I was like, shit - I've gotta make it into a show now, you know? I had no clue, and I've got to get on stage and perform it, which was terrifying. And the first time you ever do a performance for it to be at the ICA was a bit... daunting. I must say, the women that run the Live Arts Programme have been fantastic and really helped me, and helped me ever since. I was just like, what am I doing? That started me off on doing loads of different things, I did that show for about a year on and off in different places, then I wrote my second show Cum Manifesto which is a safer sex show for gay men, about gay men's sex lives, and I just got involved in other things, like Gaytime TV [BBC magazine-style programme]. Things just seem to come to me, I haven't really actively sought a lot of things...
MR It was weird. I was talking to someone who said, "She's bust a c*nt to get where she is..."
AL I have worked hard for instance, funding everything myself. I don't know how I did it in some respects, and in other respects I think, what am I doing, because I never really imagined I would be doing it. Sometimes I have to pinch myself. When I did Gaytime TV and I was on that Caribbean cruise [filming a lesbian-only cruise] and it was like, what am I doing here?
MR Yeh, when everyone else is sitting there thinking "Jammy sod!" Let's talk about Gaytime TV TV then. Neither series has been well-received...
AL Yeah.
MR And now there's rumours of a third series, possibly without Rhona [Cameron, Scottish comedienne] and Bert [Tyler-Moore, British comedian and writer].
AL I had a meeting last week with them, and [sighs] I wasn't really happy with the last two series. I'm in a quite lucky position because I'm not stuck in the studio and subject to a lot of the things Rhona and Bert where. When you're in the studio for 14 hours a day filming and you've got all these people around you telling you what to do, I think their natural personality or style may have been overlooked or forced into being a different way. I think Bert, for instance, everybody says he seemed like a wet fish when actually in real life he's a really nice guy. They forced him to wear really shiny shirts and shiny suits and if you make someone feel really uncomfortable, then they're not going to be at their best.
I was quite lucky. Initially, they weren't even going to give me the job. Simon [Duckie's co-founder] phoned... he'd seen some ad that they were looking for researchers and he thought, "Oh well they must be looking for presenters as well" and he phoned and said, "Can Amy come and do a screen test for you?" and they said, "Oh no. We're looking for babes." He was like, "Excuse me?" I mean, it's their perception of what a television presenter should look like. And finally, I persisted and persisted and they agreed to give me a screen test. I did it, and they really liked it, although they said I wasn't really suitable to be the main presenter, so I guess they still wanted a babe. I challenged them on what exactly a babe is. But they gave me the job of travel presenter, and I definitely cannot complain about because I would much rather be travelling around and doing location things than be stuck in a studio, which is really boring.
MR Did you watch it?
AL Well, I only... it's a bit shameful, but I only watched the ones I was in! [huge laugh] It's a bit difficult because I don't necessarily agree with the idea of gay television. I'm more interested in having something that's inherently gay and lesbian but you don't have to prance around saying the G-word or the L-word. But I think there's a natural progression that happens anyway. You had Out On Tuesday [Channel 4 magazine-style programme, re-named Out] and a lot of people complained that it was too political and really dry, so you go to the other extreme where you have Gaytime TV TV which is sort of fluffy magazine show for gay people and the next natural progression is to have gay television that is inherently gay but doesn't actually say it.
I'd be interested to see what's on Channel 4 and I'd be interested to see what's on Gaytime TV this year, because the executive producers have promised lots of changes. Everyone that works for Gaytime TV is really nice, and I get along with everybody so well. Especially being on location you really develop speciAL relationships with people you work with, as opposed to being in the studio 'cos you're on location, you've only got each other. When we were on that cruise, we were stuck on the boat for eight days...
MR [Joke sarcasm] Stuck on the boat...
AL [Laughs] I felt like... no, if you were surrounded by 600 American lesbians. This is the reason I left that country!
MR It comes across quite strongly that you1re almost voraciously anti-American, and you seem to be more of an Anglophile. Why do you hate the USA so much?
AL [Sighs] I don't know. I always felt like I was an alien in that country and I don't even think its particular to the area I grew up in, but I just find them, in general, frustrating.
MR Where did you grow up?
AL I grew up in a small town in New Jersey, about an hour south of New York City. You can see the Manhattan skyline from my town, and I always thought, one day I'll get there. It's so close but so far away. [Sighs] But I don't know. I guess it's a combination. People tend to take things at face value and accept things without questioning them and the sort of commercialisation and commodification of everything. It's like I go home and my mother goes to Price Club. Imagine the hugest supermarket you could ever imagine with everything under one roof and you've got to have this special card to get in.
MR That's America for ya...!
AL You don't buy 16 tampons, you buy 135 tampons. Everything is in huge boxes, and it's not the way I want to live my life. It's consumerism, it's consume, consume, consume.
MR So you prefer little corner shops with cynical shop assistants?
AL Not necessarily no, but I don't agree with the commodification of everything which is what happens in America.
MR Do you find that Britain seems to be heading down that road?
AL Oh yeah, completely! Completely! I agree, it is going the same way but there's still something about this country. People will fight it, even though there are huge Tesco's popping up all over, there'll be a union of small shop owners that are determined to keep their shops and don't just let things happens. People tend to resist which I find exciting and necessary. That's just one aspect. In America almost everyone is judged by how much you earn, your potential to earn, what are you qualifications. What I'm doing here, I could never do in America. When I finished my degree, my dad said, "Right, you can go out and get a real job now." I was like, I don't want a real job. What is a real job? I couldn't cope. To be an artist is just... they'd say, "Well, how are you making your money?"
MR It's like those Visa card adverts - Visa is the future of money. What happens if you can't get a credit card?
AL Yeah.
MR So if London ends up like New York City, where do you go next?
AL I don't know!
MR I always thought a small hole in the ground would be good for me.
AL [Laughs] I have no idea. That is something I fear as well, you know? I feel like this is my home, well it is my home, and I was quite lucky because I hate America so much, I can't live here, everytime I go back even now I almost have a nervous breakdown, I can't cope with it. So I thought I'm going to leave America and find where it is that I want to live, find somewhere where I feel I belong. I'd only been to London for half a day before I moved here. I don't know what I was thinking! I came with £300 and thought, here I am, I'm in England! Now I look back, I was like, so stupid! But somehow it worked out and I just felt like, after about two weeks, I can't go, this is it, this is where I want to stay. So if that does happen here, I don't know where I'll go.
MR What's the inspiration for what you do? Naff question, but there you go. What drives you?
AL Having fun.
MR It's cool not to hear "Bank account" or "Food in the cupboard" as the reason.
AL If I was in it for the bank account, I wouldn't be doing it. What use is that? I mean, it gets me so upset when people say that. The only reason I do what I do is to have a good time and the fact that perhaps, I could possibly earn a living out of it is a bonus. That's only happened very, very recently with the success of Duckie really, which was something we didn't anticipate.
MR It did seem like a bolt from the blue.
AL Yeah. I mean, even from the very beginning, doing Gay Man Trapped In A Lesbian's Body I just felt let's see how far I can push it, let's see where it goes, the excitement of seeing how people will respond, will people be interested in this, am I doing something good or is it really crap and how can I develop that and just to have a laugh at the same time. I've had such brilliant times doing it like when I did Cum Manifestoon Hampstead Heath, which was one of the best nights ever. It's just like creating your own party almost. That's what I feel like. At Duckie, it's like a party in my front sitting room, every Saturday, but I don't have to clean up!
MR So no agenda for world domination then?
AL No, not at all. All of the stuff that I do has a definite political angle to it all so it's not just vacuous frippery. Everything is really thought out and I definitely bring my own personal agenda into it, but I think everyone does.
There was something lacking on the gay scene, something that just didn't quite fit. I was so sick of having nowhere to go on a Saturday night. The choice was Love Muscle [a gay men's night at the Fridge, Brixton SW1] or some dodgy pub in South London, so it was, well why don't we take the dodgy pub in South London and put a club in it. It was about changing things, and I consider myself quite lucky that people have responded to that and think the same way, that they were fed up as well. With Gay Man Trapped In A Lesbian's Body, I was really terrified that there'd be a lot of lesbians who'd be angry at me or about the show, and there were, but after doing the show sporadically for a year, in the beginning most of the audience was gay men and towards the end it really shifted, there were loads more lesbians coming to see it and the responses I got were fantastic like, it's so rare that you see a feminine lesbian on stage celebrating femininity, and it's good to see different representations of lesbians, which made me feel really good because I thought I'd be slaughtered basically. I still feel like that sometimes...
MR I've begun to feel over the last couple of years that the lesbian community is a lot more laid back than people give us credit for. The scene's shifting.
AL It's just about taking things into your own hands, instead of sitting around and complaining about it - like I used to do - I just got up off my arse and said, let's do something about it. That's the same thing the people at Club V [previously Vaseline - a mixed gay indie club] did.
MR Noticed you popped up on the The Clothes Show [BBC style programme] and the Channel 4 continuity titles. Were you just walking past...
AL [Laughs]
MR Or what?
AL No, I'm signed with a modelling agency, which I think is the most hilarious thing in the world! You know when you're little and you think, well I could never be an astronaut and I can never be a brain surgeon and one thing, being a chubby little girl that I was, and I'll never be a model. Well, I'm signed with Uglies which is more character modelling. But they get me really good work. It seems to come in waves. I'll have no work for a month, then I'll work for two weeks solid. I do some really funny things. I did one for Tiptree Jam, I just did a thing for Ipswich Building Society, I did a big ad campaign for Ninex, Midland Bank, That's Life magazine... Some of them are really tacky, but I turned down quite a lot of work as well, because they invariably want to cast me as pathetic fat girl, and I refuse to be cast in that role. My agency will phone me up and say, "We've got a job for you at such and such health club..." and I just know what it's going to be. It's going to be me and some muscle guy and me looking like I want to get off with him or something.
MR Don't you find it hard work battling that?
AL Well, yeah, completely. You just have to be really strong. I mean, and that's just one area of my life. With the modelling, I feel quite powerful with that. I'm so busy doing my own stuff that I don't have to depend on that money to live, whereas if that was the only thing I did, I think I'd feel quite desperate and feel like I'd have to do it. But my agency's been really good, and now they've learned and they screen everything. They won't even suggest things to me if they know that it's fatphobic or if they want to cast me in an unsavoury light as the pathetic fat girl.
MR And what about the Fat Women's Group [a predominately straight based in London] award? You wrote in your column not long after that you had a problem with it?
AL Oh no, I can't even remember what I wrote in the Pink Paper [UK national weekly].
MR Oops...
AL [Laughs]
MR So you don't have a problem...
AL No, not at all! I thought it was... I was really honoured but I was also really surprised. I didn't necessarily think I was doing services to fat women world wide, you know?
MR Should be charging for it.
AL [Laughs] It was kind of news to me.
MR So we'll just put it down as "an honour"? Well chuffed...
AL I was really chuffed, completely.
MR That leads into your Beauty Contest...
AL Yeah, it's happening on 30 June [1997], which is the week of Pride. I ran this special event at the Vauxhall about a year before Duckie called Big Girls Blouse. It was a sort of variety show, a sort of precursor to Duckie if you will, and we crowned Miss Lesbian Beauty 1995 and the following year we did the same thing at Duckie, and then we did Prom King and Queen at the Duckie Prom at the ICA, and I just thought it would be good to have a bigger beauty contest. Another friend of mine had suggested it as well. I thought instead of just doing it at Duckie we could have a really huge, really glamorous event. The boys have always cornered that kind of thing but it's so tacky. It's all about well-oiled muscles, big dick and no brains kind of thing so I wanted to do something that was a traditional beauty contest, so it's a traditional format like Miss America or whatever that I grew up watching, but with a really wide range of women and really representative of the lesbian community, without being council about it, so we won1t be tokenistic, but just have realwomen.
Beauty contests are not about that, about being real. We've had about 15 women respond already but it's going to be totally arbitrary, I'm going to be the one who chooses who gets in the competition [laughs] but I think any girl that puts herself forward to be in something like this has to be of a certain character. You can't exactly be a wallflower, you can't say, I want to be in the world's first beauty contest in front of 750 people at the Café de Paris [art deco club off Leicester Square, London]. My ideal would be to have loads of different types of women but if loads of different types of women don't apply to be in the competition, then my hands are tied, but my goal is to get as many types of women involved as possible. And to try and bring lesbians who do loads of different types of things together to work on the project. We've got lesbian performers who'll be doing lesbian cabaret between the rounds, then afterwards we'll have a disco.
MR By traditional, you mean there'll be a swimsuit round, glamorous evening wear, interviews and the crown and the sash at the end?
AL Yeah, yeah. And we're working on getting sponsorship for nice, big juicy prizes. We want to get a trip, a nice holiday or something, hopefully. We're working on getting celebrity judges, but nothing's been confirmed yet, although I've had a few people who have been interested in doing it and people interested in sponsoring it as well. Gaytime TV are going to cover it, over two episodes I think, 'cos they did Mr. Gay UK [annual contest] last year. They're really keen to do it, which is good.
MR So you're not trying to make it alternative?
AL Well, not really. Everything that I do is injected with a good sense of humour and I certainly wouldn't take it at face value. It's not going to be serious but I'm taking the women seriously, but it's not going to be "And now, you are crowned Miss Lesbian Beauty 1997!" It's gonna be fun. I just see it as a really glamorous thing that loads of dykes can come to, look at gorgeous women, you know? Objectify their bodies - be my guest! And have a laugh, see some cabaret, and dance and drink a lot, hang out.
MR It's not an agenda that you believe the lesbian community needs more of this sort of stuff?
AL No, not at all. It's just for fun. I don't think, oh I'm doing a great service to the lesbian community. The lesbian community could go along fine without a lesbian beauty contest, I just thought it would be a laugh. It's a commentary on things like Mr. Gay UK and Miss World. Why should the richness of our community and our diversity and our beauty, and all the things we have to offer, be slipped under the carpet? You can't deny it, there is a horrible stereotype about lesbians, that they're not beautiful in the traditional sense of the word. Quite frankly I'm not interested in the women or in lesbians that are traditional, I'm interested in interesting people and I think that there are lesbians out there who would like to be involved in something like this. It's not serious by any means, although I am taking it seriously. I just like fun, glamorous events where you can get dressed up and feel special. I don't think lesbians get very much chance to feel special.
MR What else have you got lined up?
AL We're doing a few things with Duckie. We're having a party on the Circle Line, Duckie Goes Underground. I think they did it back in the 80's, some gay and lesbian socialist group or something. What we're going to do is meet up at a certain station at a certain time and have a party on the car, go round London until we get kicked off basically. There's no purpose except that we're having fun. We're doing I Dream Of Morrissey which is the first Stephen Patrick Morrissey [lead singer with 80s group The Smiths, now solo] convention, in July [1997], at the ICA. That's going to be a combination of performance, art installation, night club type thing in the theatre there, we're taking all the seats out. We're going to have Morrissey karaoke and Morrissey make-overs, we're going to haan beautyve a big be. The originAL idea came from the fact there was a book called I Dream Of Madonna and it's all people who had dreams about Madonna and I wanna make a book called I Dream Of Morrisseybecause I always dream about Morrissey [laughs] 'cos I love him so much, so I thought we could make a whole event around this.
MR Is the link with the theme Duckie nights?
AL Yeah, 'cos we did Duckie Salutes Morrissey back in January. It was the first one we did, and it was such a hit, I couldn't even believe it. People just love it, and since then we've been taking major rock and pop icons and saluting them, so this is definitely borne out of Duckie Salutes... We're gonna have a big bed and I'm going to cover it with a white sheet and have lots of pillows on it, so you can get in the bed and have a little dream about Morrissey and write a message to him with felt tip on the sheets, and then send them to him.
MR Does it take you long to think these ideas up? Do you get stoned a lot?
AL [Laughs] No, not at all. Sometimes it takes a while. For instance, we're planning on doing this event called Pleasure Promenade, which we're actually applying for Arts Council funding for, but that's something that's really long term and takes a lot of planning. A lot of it, we just sit around, like for Duckie, and say, hey why don't we do that and in a couple a weeks we do it which is really good, and it's exciting because you're not sitting around thinking, oh I wish I could do that. But I feel quite lucky that I actually have a vehicle with which to try new things out to get different performers, to have these different theme nights or write quizzes about particular subjects.
MR Is that why you think Duckie is so successful?
AL I think it's a combination of things. First and foremost, you don't underestimate the intelligence of the people who come to the club which I think has been going on on the gay scene for too long. At Duckie you don't pay you're money at the door, get shuffled in and are forgotten. That's the difference, I think. It's a really personAL club. People that come there feel they have some sort of investment in the club, which they do. We've had loads of suggestions from people who come to the club all the time, and then we do them.
MR So you have a fair number of regulars?
AL Oh yeah!
MR Do you think it's in danger of outgrowing itself and collapse?
AL We went through two difficult periods when we were getting loads and loads of publicity and people were coming to the club and a lot of people got turned away, and unfortunately some of those people were regulars which wasn't a good thing. But I think now it's evened out. We're still at the Vauxhall Tavern [well established gay venue in Lonodon SW8] and we don't want to move because I love that place. It's just perfect, perfect for what we want to do. I just wish there was a marquee attached to the side, but with the stage, and the atmosphere, it's one big room so you're either in it or you're not. There's no escape, there's no chill out room.
MR I haven't been for a while, but I've been to Vixens [lesbian night at Vauxhall Tavern, still running] a few times.
AL They are great women that run that, they really have their heart in the right place. The thing is, there are people on the gay scene that are doing good things, not ripping people off, and providing interesting places to go. It's just unfortunate that a lot of things are eclipsed by huge money-making, money-grabbing clubs. Of course, it's subjective. I'm sure people that go to G.A.Y. [largest gay venue in UK] think that Jeremy Joseph [gay club promoter] is doing them a huge favour, but I disagree [laughs] and the other reason that Duckie is so successful is that it's not formulaic. You don't hear the same records in the same order every week. We have a different theme every week, different performers every week, I do a different quiz every week, so people are never getting the same exact thing.
MR Have you ever though about doing Duckie Salutes... [whisper] The Osmonds?
AL [Laughs] I should do!
MR Not for me... erm... for a very dear friend.
AL [Laughs] Yeah, right! I'd love to, because I used to be in love with Marie Osmond when I was young. I liked Marie swinging on that swing with all the flowers around her.
MR Anyone else?
AL We're doing some more salutes, like Suede [Britpop band], and we've got Diane Torr [famous for the drag king workshops] coming over from America, she'll be performing. We've got quite a few performers who haven't performed at Duckie before, which is good. What else? We're going to have a Good Ol' Days at Duckie with a huge singalong. We just did a huge thing with Labour, like New Labour New Duckie with Kate Hoey, [Labour MP for Vauxhall], we've had the Liverpool Dockers [workers on strike in protest at loss of jobs and pay rises] . This is stuff that I find really exciting, because we've proved you can combine art and politics and pop music and club culture. People did say we couldn't do it. When we did that thing at the ICA, certain people were like, "You can't have a nightclub at the ICA! You can't have art with a club!" 'cos they think the ICA is all so serious. But if you talk to the women who run Live Arts, they're just... mental, they'll do anything and they're really interested in breaking down boundaries which is why they've asked us back to do other things. They can see it. Other people that come to our club see it and appreciate it and it's amazing. If you treat people with respect and you treat them with intelligence, that's how they respond and that doesn't happen a lot of times on the gay scene.
MR Does Duckie attract people who are converts from techno?
AL I don't think so. There are people who used to stay home all the time, people who have moved from their front rooms... to mine! Just like we did.
MR You mentioned Morrissey and Marie Osmond. Do you have any other heroes and villains?
AL Gosh. Well, yeah a few. I love Marie... She's in the stage version of The Sound Of Music. It's funny when you grow up and become conscious of being a lesbian, and then you look back over your life to when you were five and staring dreamily at a cover of Donny and Marie and you're obsessed with Marie and you think, that must have been a lesbian moment. I used to stare at the cover of the Blondie [US/UK late 1970s band] Parallel Lines album, to try and pick out the sexy parts of Debbie Harry's body. I thought her underarms were really sexy, for some reason [laughs]. I love Doris Day and Joan or Arc and Morrissey. I don't really have a hero or anything. Villains? Anyone... I have this reAL thing, as you can probably imagine, for people who treat me like shit because of my size. It's sort of body fascists, those are the people I really hate.
It's so difficult, it really, really is, and it takes such inner strength to combat that. Let alone in yourself but with people in the street that make comments and things like that. I just feel like saying look, women's bodies are not public property, and certainly not mine, and I just feel like saying to them you have absolutely no right to comment on my body.
MR People I've been with have sometime told me not to say anything, because they reckon it's not worth the hassle.
AL No, it is worth the hassle. It is. It just makes me sick. I was just doing this modelling job and being with an agency like Uglies, you get loads of different kinds of people but a lot of times I have to work with traditional models. One of them was saying how she'd developed this really horrible allergy to wheat and diary and it's difficult for her when she's working because they get lunch for everyone, and it's sandwiches. She can't eat that. This other traditional model turned to her and said, "Oh well, at least you'll stay slim." And I thought, you've totally missed the point. Slimness at all costs, even if your health is in danger. It's still not as bad as America though. Watching television in America, you'll get an ad for fat-free cookies then one for an exercise machine then one for Weight Watchers. It gives such a mixed message. It just perpetuates things, and people have such unhealthy attitudes towards food and their bodies. You can't think that your body is an enemy. You can't think that your body is a casing and your mind and soul are separate from your body. You're all one and you have to love it. I know it sounds like therapy speak...
MR I get fed up going to places where food is sold, I come in here to eat, that's all this place does, it's a fucking restaurant...
AL [Laughs]
MR And I still get shit from waiters! It always feels like such a battle.
AL It is a constant battle, it is. Even just walking down the street. I think a lot of people do underestimate, or don't even think about, the things that fat women do go through. Loads of things, like sexuality is one. Fat women in certain places are seen as great sexual objects. I can walk through Brixton Market [London SW1] and I get African men following me, but then you can turn a corner and you're not seen as having any sexuality because fat women are undesirable, or seen as undesirable. So, of course, no-one's going to want to sleep with you, no-one's going to want to be intimate with you, so you get these really weird dichotomies and it's very difficult to find your one place and be strong. Whenever I see a fat woman walking down the street, I think, right on sister!
MR Did you have more of a struggle with being a dyke or being fat?
AL I think it's all been sort of mixed up, I don't think I could separate it. Going back to the whole sexuality thing, I thought well yeah, I'm fat. There's no way around it. You can't use a euphemism, you can't say oh I'm cuddly, fluffy... I'm just fat. Trying to find your place just being a lesbian is so difficult. I wasn't very successful with guys, I did have a boyfriend in high school but that was more about hormones and getting it over with than anything. Then I thought lesbians must be more accepting, more understanding, but I've learned that it's not necessarily true. In certain instances it is, because most lesbians have more shit to worry about than being fat or whatever...
AL ...I just try and combat it when I can. You can't take the responsibility for every fat woman or every lesbian in the whole world on your shoulders, you just have to sort of respond when and where you can and not putting yourself in any danger either. It helps if you have someone with you because you don't feel so vulnerable.
The other thing is that being fat you're not supposed to enjoy your food. You're supposed to sit at home and repent your sins, not be seen eating in public. Even now, when I'm eating something walking down the street, people just stare at you. Anybody else can walk down the street eating M and Ms or a sandwich.
MR People make me feel like I'm eating a 4-tonne cream cake.
AL It's disgusting, but I've made a conscious decision now, especially with the media, to write letters and complain.
MR I'm sure if people told jokes about black people or the disabled, they'd be jumped on. I always feel that it'll be the absolutely last taboo to go.
AL It's amazing, even in a group of friends, what people think they can get away with. If you're sitting in a group of racially diverse people, you wouldn't sit there and crack jokes about black people. You wouldn't sit there and crack jokes about disabled people. Any sort of socially sensitive person wouldn't do that, but it seems very acceptable to do that about fat people in front of fat people, because it's seen as our own fault, our own weakness which I completely disagree with. People ask me, fat people ask me, if you could be thin, would you? I'm like, no way, no way. I think that it's totally made me part of what I am today and a lot stronger person.
MR So if I was to ask you how much you weigh, would you have a problem telling me?
AL It's funny, you know. Would you ask a thin person?
MR I do, I have done, and they all lie. Everyone lies about their weight.
AL I think part of the way that I am is that I don't want to disappear. I don't want to be one of these fat women that's crouching on the bus, I don't want to have to make excuses for my size. I don't want to have to make excuses for anything that I do. Yeah, I think people do expect you to be funny if you're fat, always the jokester. With some people, if I'm in a particularly bad mood, or sad or melancholy, then they're really shocked. My friends aren't like that, it just certain other people, but most of the people at the club don't make those sort of demands on me at all. I'm not a stand-up comedian, I'm not even funny for Christ's sake! I don't try to be funny. I don't sit home writing jokes thinking, this is really good one! I hate jokes! It's more of a sense of humour.
About the weight thing, I have made a conscious decision not to have a scale in the house. What is a number? It's worthless.
If I had the choice, I would only wear clothes that were pre-1965 but if you go into any charity or used clothing shop, they don't have chubby-girl sizes. I have a friend who makes mine, he just whips them up. I go and find fabrics that I like, draw a picture of what I want and he makes them. Before, I always felt I wasn't expressing how I wanted to be with the clothes that were available in the shops. Clothes are really important for everyone.
MR Where does the interest in pre-1965 come from?
AL I think I feel a strong affinity to the 1950s really. I don't know. I just think it was when women were really stylish. I like the ladylike quality. Now, of course, we have the privilege of being able to re-interpreting that, post-sexual revolution. I'm not saying take it lock, stock and barrel, take the essence of that particular era and re-interpreting it for its days.
MR It more about celebrating femininity than being a femme?
AL Yeah. I have this problem that a lot of people would define a femme in relation to a butch, saying you can't be a femme unless you are with a butch or seeking a butch, which I completely disagree with and think is a load of rubbish. If people want to call me a femme they can, but as long as it's very clear that they stand on their own. I think femmes have got the fuzzy end of the lollipop for a long time and have been seen as pandering to the way heterosexual men want women to look. I think the strength of femmes and feminine looking women has really been underestimated. I really want to challenge the notion that a femme can't be a femme without a butch. I refuse to wear trousers. I do want to celebrate the feminine, that's a really important part of who I am. I'm not interested in masculine things, or boys games or pandering to straight or gay men.
MR Do you sometimes think people can't quite get it square in their head that you're celebrating femininity but you're fat as well? Not only can't they sort out the femininity because you're a lesbian, but because you're fat?
AL Oh completely. I mean, the stares that I get on the street with some of my outfits, people just think, what is she? Is she like a circus exhibit or something? [laughs] There's a lot of issues there, but I think, what the hell? All I know is that I'm living my life the way I want to live it, I'm being true to myself, that's all I ask for, that's all I can want.
MR And you couldn't do that in the US?
AL In the States? Forget it! I couldn't even do the work that I do, let alone be a lesbian, let alone be a feminine lesbian, let alone be a fat feminine lesbian!
MR You're breaking too many rules, right?
AL They should just kill me!
MR You've laready mentioned good reactions to your femininity and your sexuality. What's the worst reaction you've had?
AL One was when I first started doing Cum Manifesto and I thought, it's going to be a bit tricky doing this show because it's a lesbian getting on stage talking to gay men about their sex lives. I did loads of research, I ingrained myself with every bit of HIV information and stuff about gay men's sex lives that I could so I felt I had this protection. If anyone asked me any question, I could answer it. I did a show at the Two Brewer's in Clapham, which is notoriously one of the hardest audiences ever. The show was still in its early stages, and this gay man came up to me afterwards and said, "You really shouldn't be doing this. You're just wasting your time, you're no good at it, you've got no right to talk about that. Why don't you just go and put on a fluffy little costume and be a club hostess?" as if I didn't have a brain, as if the only thing I was good for was being fluffy and camp! That really hurt, because doing that show came from me seeing real need for it. It didn't come from wanting to make money from gay men, it didn't come from me wanting to be famous. It came out of love for my gay brothers, you know? I've always had loads and loads of gay male friends. My godfather's gay, my uncle's gay, I've got gay cousins. And it rally hurt 'cos I felt like I'd really done my homework and really tried, but when people say things like that, I think whatever, you're entitled to your opinion.
MR You don't consider yourself famous?
AL It's in a little bubble.
MR And the name?
AL My mom gave me that name. I'd said I really need a stage name, and she just turned to me and said "Amy Lamé, of course!" but this a mom who fed me a steady diet of musicals. It's nice when people recognise you, of course it is, I can't deny that. It's nice when people come up to me at Duckie and say, "You changed my life. I never used to go out on Saturdays." Of course you feel good, because you think, I'm doing something right. But it's not about me. What I'm trying to do doesn't come from a really self-centred place, it comes from having a laugh with my mates and wanting other people to come along, and if they have a good time, that's great.
MR Just one question about Muff Match [lesbian sex video]: Why?
AL [Huge laugh] Yeah, I say why as well! The low point of my career thus far. It could have been good, but the scenes went on too long. The problem with that was they wanted to make it a certain length so it got counted as a feature film so we could get into different film festivals. The cut off is 50 minutes and any shorter, it's deemed a short film which makes it more difficult to get it seen.
MR Is that all it was, 50 minutes?
AL I know, it felt like 3 hours! I also think it's difficult... lesbians are still shy about getting their kit off and having full sex in front of the camera. I don't blame them. I certainly didn't want to do it. They asked me, I said no way, you've got to be joking. You don't want to put yourself in a vulnerable position like that.
MR So if there was Muff Match: The Return...?
AL I don't think so!
MR And how long will Duckie continue?
AL Well, I think once it starts going downhill or something then we'll probably shut it. I'm not adverse to closing it if I think it's becoming repetitive.
MR Thanks for your time.
AL Thanks. Do you want another muffin before you go?...
©Megan Radclyffe Millivres Publ. 1997
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