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Subject: To the older regs: DSF history (ns) From: Kasreyn Host: pm1-20.hoosier.net Date: Mon Apr 2 00:01:11 Hi everyone, First off, a definition. I define "old reg" as anyone who was here before my time. I arrived a bit over a year ago and lurked for about 2 weeks before plunging right in. =P My question tonight is: Can you older regs give me a good picture of the early days, the days of yore, of the forum? I get these tantalizing nuggets of the past from sites like the LL, names like Jarulf, Trucidation, Bolty, Crystalion, Landru ;), Bostick, Woody, Lok, Das Regard, Moriah, KingofPain, the list of vanished elder regs goes on... I'm really interested to know what battles they fought, what flame wars they engaged in, what discoveries they made, and what trolls they ignored (hey, there must have been trolls before Dr.J and GRENDEL, right?). And I don't even know that these are the eldest, earliest regs - were there DSF regs before Jarulf's time? Is anyone still on this forum a reg who was posting the day the forum went online? It just struck me today that since Diablo is over 4 years old now, it stands to reason the DSF is of a similar age. Thus, all the events that I have known at the DSF aren't even a quarter of its history. I know this seems strange to ask out of the blue. I count myself (and anyone newer than me) among the "new regs". I'd like to think the new regs have managed to keep the DSF alive despite D2 stealing so many older regs. However, I'm interminably curious about the past (before I decided on computer science, I was seriously considering becoming an historian ;). So, if anyone can shed some light on the grand old golden days of the DSF, I'll be all ears. =) -Kasreyn P.S. In other news, my new sorceror, Lord_Mhoram, got his first dot at 24 today (stupid dungeon layout forced me to fight a lot so I levelled, I was aiming for 1@21 or 1@22). The goal with this character is to set him up as a tank and time all playing sessions until he's 50, and finally decide if Paul was right to claim 50 in a week is doable. ;-) P.P.S. Speaking of history, my current reading project is Bruce Catton's "Army of the Potomac." I *highly* recommend it to anyone interested in Civil War history! Subject: 1 big difference. From: Ashock Host: 0-1pool27-153.nas7.los-angeles1.ca.us.da.qwest.net Date: Mon Apr 2 01:41:37 Hi. I'm sorta a semi-old regular, having started posting here a bit over 2 years ago (with some significant lurking beforehand), and I did catch most of the names from your list, however the 1 big difference between now and the old(er) days (at least as far as atmosphere of the forum), is Landru. Not the very strange last version, but the old one. To me, he added that *something* that we don't have anymore. Of course in those days he was mostly annoying, but I guess you don't fully appreciate something until you no longer have it :-) Anyway, I'm sure you'll get more feedback from the *real* DSF dinosaurs. -A Subject: Well... From: Omega Host: 64.40.45.205 Date: Mon Apr 2 02:04:47 You're asking an extremely broad question. I can pretty much say that I've been around longer than most if not all of the people who still post here. So, I'll try to get something to you tomorrow. ;) You should ICQ me. 30007846. -Omega Subject: Re: To the older regs: DSF history [ns] From: Nystul Host: ts36-2.homenet.ohio-state.edu Date: Mon Apr 2 04:00:26 There are a handful of people here that can tell you about the last 3+ years of DSF. I don't think you will find anyone who can tell you about the start of DSF though. Jarulf and Varaya are both still active at the Lurker Lounge, and go back pretty far. Aside from any tales people might tell in this thread, you can find a lot of good stuff from websites. An absolute MUST is VanDamned's Plain Guide for Diablo: http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Chamber/1992/diablo.html Check out pretty much everything on this site, as it's great stuff :) As for the last 3 years, the main thing I can tell you is that the names around here change, but the posting content is largely the same: spam, newbie questions, constant links to JG and Freshman Diablo, 3@30 reports and other success stories, variant stories and questions, character evaluations, "best gear" posts, flames, guild ads, and those rare posts that people talk about years later. Some of the more heated topics on the forum when I've been around: "Is this legit?": such a hot topic it has many subtopics even to this day :) The Best way to play a rogue: We all know that rogues should only use bows! But Claudio was using a Cudgel and Sourceror was using a 'flange and you wouldn't believe how many times this subject can come up. Landru: Always funny to see someone flame a bot! There were also some pretty bizarre experiments to try to figure out what made this thing tick. Mods: Major subclass of "Is this legit?" came into play when some DSF regs started using trainers to play mods on b.net. Finnan Haddie (who started posting _very_ shortly after Sourceror left) was the main opponent of this practice. Things got heated when Bolty's common "List of useful links" posts, which included links to mod sites, started drawing copy&paste replies from Finnan including "Blizzard's stance on cheating". Of course there is more, but I'm out of time for now, and there are plenty of other "old regs" yet to post. Of course I'm not an "old reg"...I still remember my first post! :) -Nystul Subject: How dare I post here From: Bolty Host: RDM139.rh.psu.edu Date: Mon Apr 2 10:46:51 But your post brought back nostalgia... > There are a handful of people here that can tell you about the > last 3+ years of DSF. I don't think you will find anyone who can > tell you about the start of DSF though. Jarulf and Varaya are > both still active at the Lurker Lounge, and go back pretty far. > > Aside from any tales people might tell in this thread, you can > find a lot of good stuff from websites. An absolute MUST is > VanDamned's Plain Guide for Diablo: > > http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Chamber/1992/diablo.html You also can't miss Varaya's Archive. In fact, I'll just give a link to my links, cause it's easier for me (and you know how much ad revenue I get from hits on the Lounge): http://www.lurkerlounge.com/links.shtml If one peruses those sites, one will get a great concept of "oldschool DSF." > As for the last 3 years, the main thing I can tell you is that > the names around here change, but the posting content is largely > the same: spam, newbie questions, constant links to JG and > Freshman Diablo, 3@30 reports and other success stories, variant > stories and questions, character evaluations, "best gear" > posts, flames, guild ads, and those rare posts that people talk > about years later. True, Nys, true, but things WERE a little more interesting in the year and a half after release, when new discoveries were being made every so often. Crystalion's "of Thieves" is probably the most shocking one ever, mostly because it went undiscovered for over a year! > Some of the more heated topics on the forum when I've been around: > > "Is this legit?": such a hot topic it has many subtopics > even to this day :) > > The Best way to play a rogue: We all know that rogues should > only use bows! But Claudio was using a Cudgel and Sourceror was > using a 'flange and you wouldn't believe how many times this > subject can come up. Or how many silly flame wars it would cause, too... :) > Landru: Always funny to see someone flame a bot! There were > also some pretty bizarre experiments to try to figure out what > made this thing tick. Landru is so very missed. There were attempts to code one for the Lounge forum which failed - a damn shame. > Mods: Major subclass of "Is this legit?" came into play > when some DSF regs started using trainers to play mods on b.net. > Finnan Haddie (who started posting _very_ shortly after Sourceror > left) was the main opponent of this practice. Things got heated > when Bolty's common "List of useful links" posts, which > included links to mod sites, started drawing copy&paste replies > from Finnan including "Blizzard's stance on cheating". LOL! I had to stop posting those, because the forum was tearing itself apart over the flame wars that followed each and every posting. So I figured I'd put my links up on a site - oh boy, silly me. Look what that led to. > Of course there is more, but I'm out of time for now, and there > are plenty of other "old regs" yet to post. Of course > I'm not an "old reg"...I still remember my first post! :) Of course you're an old reg. But I don't know of anyone else who remembers their first post. I lurked for 5 months before I ever posted, and I don't have a clue what I posted about. Probably something really stupid. :) Thanks for the trip down memory lane, Nys. -Bolty Subject: I do... From: Mirajj Host: rdu163-37-234.nc.rr.com Date: Mon Apr 2 11:13:20 > Of course you're an old reg. But I don't know of anyone > else who remembers their first post. I remember mine. I don't recall exactly when, but I do remember the post...mostly because of the answer I got for it. I had played the game for about a month, when I found out about BNet and the various forums that it had. So I came onto the forum, lurked for a little while, and then asked a battery of questions that had been bothering me about the game since I'd started playing. I looked at all the threads, and all the responses they got. Then I looked at the single response I got. It answered my questions, but I couldn't understand how one person knew so much about the game. Of course, at that time, I hadn't yet heard of Jarulf...the person who answered that first post of mine. http://www.geocities.com/Broadway/9187/tales.html Mirajj Subject: My first post From: Nystul Host: ts7-12.homenet.ohio-state.edu Date: Tue Apr 3 17:40:57 I remember my first post because I was quite sure that it would lead to some decent discussion and generate lots of thoughtful replies! Unlike so many other newbies, I had lurked the forum (at least for a few days :) and would not ask a dumb question on my first post! My question was "Which is better on a hat for a sorcerer: higher AC or 'of harmony'?" This came up because my first sorcerer (named nystul, strangely enough) had purchased a holy helm of osmosis and some hat of harmony. What I didn't know was that harmony did absolutely nothing. Armed with Jarulf's Guide (although it was very much a work in progress), my learning curve was pretty fast. Within a couple weeks I was the one answering the questions instead of the one asking them. As for the equipment, neither hat lasted very long. I read a thread about mage gear in which Sourceror replied with an arty dream setup (the one with Naj's and the obsidian/absorbance shield), and it wasn't long before nystul stopped worrying about protection altogether. I also remember my first response to an "Is this legit?" thread, because the specific thread seems so funny now. Some guy and his friend were making new characters, dropping the staff and 100 gold in town, and deleting the characters. In this way, they were able to earn enough cash to buy the rags of the sky or whatever Gris would sell them :) Some people thought this was duping, while I personally thought it was a rather lame form of legit PKing... Which brings up the second question. Would it be legit if they kept killing each other and selling the ears? :) -Nystul Subject: Some Thoughts, Musings, and Ramblings... From: Charles Warren Host: 64.108.179.2 Date: Mon Apr 2 07:06:59 On Mon Apr 2 00:01:11, Kasreyn wrote: Hello, Kasreyn :) > Hi everyone, > > First off, a definition. I define "old reg" as anyone > who was here before my time. I arrived a bit over a year ago and > lurked for about 2 weeks before plunging right in. =P > Well, I no longer remember the date when I first posted anything, but I do remember the responses very well :) To put it simply, I lurked for a few months after the release of Diablo before posting. > My question tonight is: Can you older regs give me a good > picture of the early days, the days of yore, of the forum? I get > these tantalizing nuggets of the past from sites like the LL, > names like Jarulf, Trucidation, Bolty, Crystalion, Landru ;), > Bostick, Woody, Lok, Das Regard, Moriah, KingofPain, the list of > vanished elder regs goes on... I'm really interested to know > what battles they fought, what flame wars they engaged in, what > discoveries they made, and what trolls they ignored (hey, there > must have been trolls before Dr.J and GRENDEL, right?). And I > don't even know that these are the eldest, earliest regs - were > there DSF regs before Jarulf's time? Is anyone still on this > forum a reg who was posting the day the forum went online? It > just struck me today that since Diablo is over 4 years old now, > it stands to reason the DSF is of a similar age. Thus, all the > events that I have known at the DSF aren't even a quarter of its > history. > Well, you are asking an extremely broad set of questions here, but I will attempt to give a few hopefully helpful answers. There have been many different regs during the time that I have been here (some, such as Pete, Armin, and Thecla, have been here longer than me certainly): DarkSniper (he loved Windforce :), Orkinman (he came up with the Ten Commandments for Warriors in cooperative play :), P(IG) (discovered the Civerb's Cudgel's true usefulness against demons, IIRC), Jarulf (great guide :), Crystalion (discovered the "of Thieves" bug, for example, in versions prior to 1.07 IIRC), Sourceror (he came up with the Turtle Mage, and I remember his postings about how well it worked :), Bostic (Landru's inventor (IIRC) and master of the sarcastic response :), and these are just a few examples. If I could remember all of the regs that I have had discussions with, my memory would probably explode :) Also, a few other regs have had interesting impressions on me. Sourceror, for instance, immediately informed me in a certain way that I am no ordinary Sorceror :) I responded to a question on Battle Mages, and found out that my definition of Battle Mage was incorrect. A Battle Mage had high AC, but still used spells to kill enemies, except for triple immune monsters. OTOH, I used weapons to kill everything (including triple immune monsters :) At this point, Bostic also replied to my post, informing me that I was a variant. Gyrefalcon and I wrote the actual rules for the Muscle Mage shortly after that incident. Bostic then suggested that my nickname become the Muscle Mage, and I took the hint :) Other interesting discussions that I remember include Armin's rant on scanners (an excellent read, IMHO) that can still be found on the Lurker Lounge. Also, many PK discussions occurred between members of JYHAD and the regulars here in the forum (similar discussions have occurred since you have been in this forum, I am certain). Nothing decisive have ever come from the PK discussions, so I tend to ignore them now. As far as trolls go, there have been far too many to name (and I don't really try to remember their names anyway). Some, like Hi, actually attempted to use intelligent arguments to support their activities, while others had the approximate intelligence of a rock that you might find in the local quarry. However, many great posts have come through this forum, and from those posts came the knowledge that we use today. P(IG)'s discovery of the usefulness of the Civerb's Cudgel against demons was a great find for a weapon that was generally considered to be useless at the time (IIRC). When Crystalion discovered the "of Thieves" bug, it also meant that a character with maxed resists in a pre-1.07 version of Diablo or in Hellfire would have an actual resistance to fire, lightning, and magic of 87.5% (I won't include the calculation, if you don't mind), and a resistance to all missiles of 50%. OTOH, Mana Shield was erroneous in all those versions as well, so that you would only want a level 1 Mana Shield, or else you would not get a reduction of 1/3, but rather a reduction in damage of 1/(spell level * 3). Since Mana Shield's effectiveness was capped at spell level 7, the worst reduction you could get in those versions is 1/21. Many discussions occurred over the use of Windforce for Rogues. DarkSniper loved Windforce, while some others (such as Shuri, IIRC) hated it. Windforce does have a unique drawback, in that it will knock its opponent back one square. BTW, the "back one square" part depends on where the monster is facing at the time. If a witch is running away from you (her back is to your character), the witch will actually move one square toward your character IIRC. This knockback feature probably took some getting used to, even DarkSniper stated that it took some time before he was accustomed to the knockback feature. Orkinman's Ten Commandments for Warriors in coop was a great post as well. Some of the commandments are still blank. This post can be found on Dako-ta's page now, at http://www.home.att.net/~diablo.miscellanea , go to the Diablo 1 link, then go to the other option than glossary (my apologies, but I do not remember the name of the link). Pete has two items on Freshman Diablo, http://arewehavingfunyet.com/diablo , that are excellent reading materials for new players, or those that need a refresher. One is Butcher Bashing 101, and the other deals with Leoric. I can't remember if they are two separate documents there, or are both in the same document, but they are definitely very useful. Armin has excellent documents housed at Freshman Diablo and the Lurker Lounge. All of his documents are excellent reading material, and strongly recommended. Also, all of his items were posted at the DSF at least once (some more often than that). Moriah was well known for his Chain Lightning strategies, but I am not sure where those are currently located (I think one is on Freshman Diablo, but I may be wrong). Also, Moriah had a few Live-Off-the-Land (commonly known as LOL, not to be confused with Laughing Out Loud :) Rogues as well. Created a calculator that would allow you to compare your characters stats and abilities to a monster to determine to-hit% chance, chance that the monster will hit at a certain AC, blocking % (IIRC), and other relevant information. I do not have the link to the calculator handy at the moment, but I will post that information when I find the link in my materials. Well, this document is getting rather long, and my memory is beginning to pull blanks instead of useful information. > I know this seems strange to ask out of the blue. I count myself > (and anyone newer than me) among the "new regs". I'd > like to think the new regs have managed to keep the DSF alive > despite D2 stealing so many older regs. However, I'm > interminably curious about the past (before I decided on computer > science, I was seriously considering becoming an historian ;). > So, if anyone can shed some light on the grand old golden days of > the DSF, I'll be all ears. =) > Well, hopefully that gives some idea of the past. However, the future still probably holds something that we have not dreamed of yet :) History is a great thing to study, though contemporary history can be the hardest to research, IMHO :) > -Kasreyn > > P.S. In other news, my new sorceror, Lord_Mhoram, got his first > dot at 24 today (stupid dungeon layout forced me to fight a lot > so I levelled, I was aiming for 1@21 or 1@22). The goal with > this character is to set him up as a tank and time all playing > sessions until he's 50, and finally decide if Paul was right to > claim 50 in a week is doable. ;-) > Great job, and good luck in your goal :) > P.P.S. Speaking of history, my current reading project is Bruce > Catton's "Army of the Potomac." I *highly* recommend it > to anyone interested in Civil War history! Hmm, I'll have to get that one when I have some extra time for reading (coming up in about 1 week :) Charles Warren, aka the Muscle Mage "Magic? Why bother? Nothing is immune to cold steel :)" Subject: Moriah's Calculator link. From: HowGozit Host: gosax2-190.dialup.optusnet.com.au Date: Mon Apr 2 16:40:29 Not sure if this is the latest one, but it works fine.. http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Maze/4747/maxmelee12.html Hmm - I've nearly been here a year and 3/4.. This place used to severely affect my productivity at work, as I used to read all the posts.. But, by the time I arrived, many of the old-timers had moved on.. I actually didn't know it still existed as I had only read about it in strat guides by people like Bolty and Armin.. Then I followed a link in Bnet (after playing for about 3 months - and finding immense amounts of literature on the net). I believe the first post I saw was from Bolty (I wonder if he archived that nitting post - that was hilarious! :-) Moriah vanished into Asheron's Call, I believe.. I haven't heard from him in ages - not even on his own forum. Ah well - I used to occasionally haunt the back thread on here, where a bunch of unknown people (to me) used to resurface now and again.. :-) HowGozit Subject: Nope... From: Kasreyn Host: pm1-17.hoosier.net Date: Mon Apr 2 16:52:47 Nothing there on the page I found except the helpfile for the calculator. No actual calculator. Do I need Javascript or Java or cookies enabled (I use none of that bulls*t normally) ? -Kasreyn Subject: Yeah From: Nystul Host: ts42-12.homenet.ohio-state.edu Date: Mon Apr 2 17:08:17 You'll have to enable javascripts if I'm not mistaken. (If that doesn't work, try enabling java too.) Moriah used the combat calculator as a tool for learning how to program in java. I wonder if it has ever come in handy for him at work... Subject: I'll have none of that talk(ns) From: Eli Host: 204.23.108.110 Date: Tue Apr 3 09:38:09 "Do I need Javascript or Java or cookies enabled (I use none of that bulls*t normally) ?" Hey, you never know when a Java and JavaScript programmer might just help you out:-) "Code naked. Disturb your co-workers." Eli Subject: Nitting post? From: Bolty Host: RDM139.rh.psu.edu Date: Mon Apr 2 17:04:01 Vague...memories....must...try...to...remember...huh? -Bolty The Lurker Lounge http://www.lurkerlounge.com Subject: Re: Nitting post? From: HowGozit Host: gosax2-026.dialup.optusnet.com.au Date: Mon Apr 2 20:14:06 On Mon Apr 2 17:04:01, Bolty wrote: > Vague...memories....must...try...to...remember...huh? > > -Bolty > The Lurker Lounge > http://www.lurkerlounge.com A work of art you posted once late'ish in 1999 re the correct way to nit DSF posts.. Using quotes from Jarulf's Guide etc. etc. I burst out laughing in the office.. (I seem to recall Armin saying he did something similar - thus gaining dirty looks from others in the Lab.. :-) Of course, you may have just typed it directly into the forum, in which case it will gone forever.. ;-) HowGozit Subject: Yep, direct type From: Bolty Host: RDM139.rh.psu.edu Date: Mon Apr 2 20:28:43 I don't keep copies of the posts I write, so it's gone. I don't even remember writing it. -Bolty Subject: Lol ... From: Talon Host: px4ar.ed.wave.shaw.ca Date: Mon Apr 2 21:46:05 ... I vaguely remember that as well. It would certainly be nice to see it again. Has anyone been keeping archives? =) - Tal Subject: One reply (with some coughing). From: Thecla Host: user-33qtn98.dialup.mindspring.com Date: Tue Apr 3 00:48:41 On Mon Apr 2 00:01:11, Kasreyn wrote: > My question tonight is: Can you older regs give me a good > picture of the early days, the days of yore, of the forum? Well, some personal reminisences, though no doubt my memory is faulty, and my perspective -- as filtered mainly through the DSF -- is incomplete. First, you have to remember that the early DSF was the poorly regarded sibling of Ogden's tavern, where the real people hung out. Ogden's was dominated by posters from co-op guilds like Snakegod and Tarot, story tellers from Ordo Rosae Moriatur (all of which AFAIK formed as a result of Diablo), and the original members of the INFERNO pk guild. The DSF posters somehow seemed to congregate to a *cough* different guild, or no guild at all, although quite a few people from snakegod posted on the DSF early on. The DSF was pretty much ignored until Jarulf and Crystalion gave it prestige, and Ogden's disintegrated under the weight of its constant flaming (Bliz tech support rep on Ogden's: "We look at Ogden's like some sort of horrible traffic wreck. We just try to scrape the road kill off the forum before it attracts too many flies."), but that was maybe a year or so into the game. Also early on, the pages scrolled by at the rate of 5 a day, and it was hard to keep up with them. > I get these tantalizing nuggets of the past from sites like the LL, > names like Jarulf, Trucidation, I don't think Trucidation ever posted on the DSF, or if he did it was under a different name. > Bolty, Crystalion, Landru ;), > Bostick, Woody, Lok, Das Regard, Moriah, KingofPain, And KoP rarely did as far as I recall -- he mainly used the old asylum message board http://network54.com/Hide/Forum/4026 where the variants hung out -- there was some overlap between the asylum and the DSF (Armin especially, Woody(BNM) early on etc), but there were also some asylum regs who distained the DSF, and some DSFers who didn't relate to variant *cough* "scum". :) > vanished elder regs goes on... I'm really interested to know > what battles they fought, what flame wars they engaged in, The two biggest early DSF flame wars both involved Woody -- the first was with �arkSniper (who loved windforce and hated cheaters with an equal passion); the second was with Van_Damned (as per Nystul's link) http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Chamber/1992/diablo.html who described Woody as a "great big ball of negative energy", and Woody -- never one to back away from a fight -- responded with something even nastier. It went downhill from there, and ended with Barngrille telling them both that somewhere two villages were being deprived of their idiots. Later, there was an ugly fight with the Tarot guild, which started when Daknit from Tarot got flamed by some DSF regs for repeatedly posting stories on the DSF. Then someone, whose name began with V, from Tarot, made a brief semi-illiterate post about having found a godly plate early on in the game (after it was known this was impossible). He got roundly flamed, his guild members lept to his defense, and it degenerated into a war, with Bolty getting threatened by e-mail, I believe. (Chris_Clarke aka Gul Ratclaw (?) was a Tarot member that posted on the DSF, and he was one of the few Tarot members who remained calm and reasonable through the whole sorry episode). Two minor flame wars I recall: the first was with CodeMyster, one of the earliest DSF posters and a computer guy, http://www.burgoyne.com/pages/dchriste/ He was always a little ac/dc on the cheating/legit line in the opinion of many, and had finally resolved a heated debate about cheating with some people on the forum, so he arranged to play a game with them. They apparently went to the caves, where CM found a really unusually good ring; then everybody saw a "duplicate item detected message". There was a lot of back and forth about what had happened... The other minor flame war concerned Mr_Clean -- he was a character belonging to TheSage (IIRC), and TheSage had decided to role play an evil character, since D1 is a *cough* role-playing game. He was in a game and asked to look at his friend's combo obs ring (perhaps Mirandia -- I don't remember now). He picked up the ring and kept it, since he was an evil character, and told his fellow players they were too trusting, which didn't go down too well with them from the messages I read. Also, there was a time when any poster who had the temerity to suggest that rogues were the "best" class in hell/hell could expect a healthy dose of incoming artillery from Bostic. > what discoveries they made, Too many to name -- a lot of stuff in the earlier versions of Jarulf's Guide was discussed here, from bow damage formulas, to civerb's cudgel, to the old of thieves effect, to mana shield bugs, to item drop rules, to clock freezing. Sadly, the code readers have taken over everything these days, and old Da O'Toth can no longer occupy his time counting the number of hits per 1000 swings. :) > and what trolls they ignored Two of the best loved elder DSF trolls were DarkD�mon (?), who made a number of sublimely and stubbornly idiotic posts, and Maluttr, who was not exactly malicious but seemed unable to grasp that the DSF was not the best place for him to post his fantasies about fast cars and women. Also not exactly a troll, but there was also Packeteer, the semi-legit lvl 46 rogue (e.g. he proposed, as a "semi-legit" way to gain items, that one use a trainer to populate an entire lvl with uniques, so you could go down and kill them to get their items). > don't even know that these are the eldest, earliest regs - were > there DSF regs before Jarulf's time? Is anyone still on this > forum a reg who was posting the day the forum went online? It > just struck me today that since Diablo is over 4 years old now, > it stands to reason the DSF is of a similar age. Thus, all the > events that I have known at the DSF aren't even a quarter of its > history. Yup, it's been going since Jan 1997 at least (I don't remember if the DSF came on line before the game was released -- there was a D1 beta forum before that). I've been reading the forum since that time, off and on, but I didn't start posting on the DSF till several months after the game came out. CodeMyster might be the earliest DSF poster who is still occasionally sighted, but I could be wrong. Another possibility is Sourceror. And on first posts, I'm not certain what mine was, but I think it was a *cough* what-is-cheating post -- "Is is cheating to use a trainer to back up your character?" At the time I was naive, and held to a strict "third party prog = cheating" dogma, but after getting relentlessly beaten down by Zamp, I think, with Aahzmadius weighing in, I had to change my mind. This was early on -- enigma's trainer was out, and Kevin's backup utility may have been around, but it wasn't common knowledge that your character data was stored in hidden windows file, though computer savvy people certainly knew it. I was really annoyed with Blizzard when I finally learnt from JANNA's FAQ http://www.the-group.org/helpernet/diablo/JanFAQ.shtml that all I had to do to back up my character data was make a copy of my dlinfo files. JANNA by the way wasn't a DSF regular -- he posted on the tech support forum. JANNA, and earlier TheHelper, both got impersonated, and driven off the forums for a while, by the notorious barberella (who used to spam the Ogden's tavern message board on the weekends with an automatic posting program, and along with Eugene, TheMan, and Random formed the Hall of Fame of D1 trolls; fortunately they mostly stayed away from the DSF). After that post, I got into a little tiff with Barngrille, when he misinterpeted a *cough* obviously humorous, but slighly sarcastic, comment I made in response to his answers to a quiz, and I was off and running. Barngrille's and Van_Damned's posts were among the best things on the early DSF. Anyway, it's odd to watch the same forum over four years (Barngrille has popped in on his forum birthday in the past), and it's good to see that it's still ticking along with mostly new people, but a smattering of the old ones too. :) p.s. When one summer (maybe 1998) I hit number one on Landru's list of number of posts, I knew I was doing this too much, and I'm glad to say I never made the top of his list again; but, with the number of "I"'s in this post, and the total lack of Diablo related terms, you can be sure that Landru would have assigned a very small number of *'s to it in his regular DSF roundup. Subject: *clears throat* From: the Sage Host: 18.4.252.64.snet.net Date: Tue Apr 3 14:25:52 The walls have ears..so be careful what you say about me! Yes, Mr. Clean was a character played by me. He was a failed attempt to roleplay an evil character, that in hindsight, should never have been attempted. There is no room for roleplaying in Diablo, or 90% of the RPG's out there. In fact, one might argue that there are currently NO RPG's where one is able to roleplay to the extent that one can in a pen&paper setting, due to limitations on game mechanics..games are either scripted, "ridgidly unscripted", or simply have coding in place which prevents an action your character may wish to engage in. Honestly, I don't remember the exact circumstances of Mr.Clean's infamy, however, I am fairly certain that the first documented instance of him being less than desirable was indeed the yoinking of a piece of jewelry, however, he had pk'ed a couple of people in random games before that. I do recall that the guild involved was AoH (Angels of Hell) which I believe is now defunct, and that a jade zod was placed as a bounty on his ear (very impressive). He was later killed, and not brought back, as I had intended. the Sage Subject: Heh..the walls have ears indeed [mpq] From: Thecla Host: user-33qtm4q.dialup.mindspring.com Date: Tue Apr 3 16:05:26 On Tue Apr 3 14:25:52, the Sage wrote: > The walls have ears..so be careful what you say about me! > > Yes, Mr. Clean was a character played by me. He was a failed > attempt to roleplay an evil character, that in hindsight, should > never have been attempted. There is no room for roleplaying in > Diablo, or 90% of the RPG's out there. > Mr.Clean was a noble attempt at role playing, but in my personal opinion Diablo is particularly ill-suited as an RPG --- I think the Diablo characters were more like electronic avatars of their owners -- so I can understand the annoyance of Mr.Clean's victims. But, as the guy in the Monty Python blackmail sketch said: "I'm not here to morally censure. I just want the money." > I do recall that the guild involved > was AoH (Angels of Hell) which I believe is now defunct, AFAIK, AoH is still around, despite Mr.Clean's infamy. :) Subject: To add to that slightly.. From: Hal Host: proxy01.mel.iprimus.net.au Date: Thu Apr 5 02:12:27 IIRC, Cuda_Prime(TAROT) maintained that he had found a godly plate from a barrel - even until the days when he dissappeared due to his battle with cancer, which seemed to be true, despite all the crap that people in Ogdens tavern used to spill about their personal lives. Here's one of his departing posts to Eugene in '98: -Ha! Subject: Ultimate Flame, Just For You Genie... From: CudaPrime (Tarot) Host: ppp-206-170-6-215.rdcy01.pacbell.net Date: Thu Nov 12 22:18:09 Been saving this one up for a special day, I knew you wouldn't let me down. Your post on Tarot's forum shows just what you really are inside, so here ya go... just what you always wanted... You swine. You vulgar little maggot. You worthless bag of filth. As we say in California. I'll bet you couldn't pour piss out of a boot with instructions on the heel. You are a canker. A sore that won't go away. I would rather kiss a lawyer than be seen with you. You're a putrescent mass, a walking vomit. You are a spineless little worm deserving nothing but the profoundest contempt. You are a jerk, a cad, and a weasel. Your life is a monument to stupidity. You are a stench, a revulsion, and a big suck on a sour lemon. You are a bleating foal, a curdled staggering mutant dwarf smeared richly with the effluvia and offal accompanying your alleged birth into this world. Insensate, blinking calves, meaningful to nobody, abandoned by the puke-drooling, giggling beasts that sired you and then killed themselves in recognition of what they had done. I will never get over the embarrassment of belonging to the same species as you. You are a monster, an ogre, and a malformity. I barf at the very thought of you. You have all the appeal of a paper cut. Lepers avoid you. You are vile, worthless, less than nothing. You are a weed, a fungus, and the dregs of this earth. And did I mention you smell? Try to edit your responses of unnecessary material before attempting to impress us with your insight. The evidence that you are a nincompoop will still be available to readers, but they will be able to access it more rapidly. You snail-skulled little rabbit. Would that a hawk pick you up, drive its beak into your brain, and upon finding it rancid set you loose to fly briefly before spattering the ocean rocks with the frothy pink shame of your ignoble blood. May you choke on the queasy, convulsing nausea of your own trite, foolish beliefs. You are weary, stale, flat and unprofitable. You are grimy, squalid, nasty and profane. You are foul and disgusting. You're a fool, an ignoramus. Monkeys look down on you. Even sheep won't have sex with you. You are unreservedly pathetic, starved for attention, and lost in a land that reality forgot. And what meaning do you expect your delusional self-important statements of unknowing, inexperienced opinion to have with us? What fantasy do you hold that you would believe that your tiny-fisted tantrums would have more weight than that of a leprous desert rat, spinning rabidly in a circle, waiting for the bite of the snake? You are a waste of flesh. You have no rhythm. You are ridiculous and obnoxious. You are the moral equivalent of a leech. You are a living emptiness, a meaningless void. You are sour and senile. You are a disease, you puerile one-handed slack-jawed drooling meatslapper. On a good day you're a half-wit. You remind me of drool. You are deficient in all that lends character. You have the personality of wallpaper. You are dank and filthy. You are asinine and benighted. You are the source of all unpleasantness. You spread misery and sorrow wherever you go. You smarmy lagerlout git. You bloody woofter sod. Bugger off, pillock. You grotty wanking oik artless base-court apple-john. You clouted boggish foot-licking twit. You dankish clack-dish plonker. You gormless crook-pated tosser. You churlish boil-brained clotpole ponce. You cockered bum-bailey poofter. You craven dewberry pisshead cockup pratting naff. You gob-kissing gleeking flap-mouthed coxcomb. You dread-bolted fobbing beef-witted clapper-clawed flirt-gill. You are a fiend and a coward, and you have bad breath. You are degenerate, noxious and depraved. I feel debased just for knowing you exist. I despise everything about you, and I wish you would go away. I cannot believe how incredibly stupid you are. I mean rock-hard stupid. Dehydrated-rock-hard stupid. Stupid, so stupid that it goes way beyond the stupid we know into a whole different dimension of stupid. You are Trans-stupid stupid. Meta-stupid. Stupid collapsed on itself so far that even the neutrons have collapsed. Stupid gotten so dense that no intellect can escape. Singularity stupid. Blazing hot mid-day sun on Mercury stupid. You emit more stupid in one second than our entire galaxy emits in a year. Quasar stupid. Your writing has to be a troll. Nothing in our universe can really be this stupid. Perhaps this is some primordial fragment from the original big bang of stupid. Some pure essence of a stupid so uncontaminated by anything else as to be beyond the laws of physics that we know. I'm sorry. I can't go on. This is an epiphany of stupid for me. After this, you may not hear from me again for a while. I don't have enough strength left to deride your ignorant questions and half-baked comments about unimportant trivia, or any of the rest of this drivel. Duh. The only thing worse than your logic is your manners. I have snipped away all of what you wrote, because, well... it didn't really say anything. Your attempt at constructing a creative flame was pitiful. I mean, really, stringing together a bunch of insults among a load of babbling was hardly effective... Maybe later in life, after you have learned to read, write, spell, and count, you will have more success. True, these are rudimentary skills that many of us "normal" people take for granted that everyone has an easy time of mastering. But we sometime forget that there are "challenged" persons in this world who find these things more difficult. If I had known, that this was your case then I would have never read your post. It just wouldn't have been "right". Sort of like parking in a handicap space. I wish you the best of luck in the emotional and social struggles that seem to be placing such a demand on you. Have A Nice Day. Cuda O;) Subject: A mostly useless reply, sorry From: Pete Host: c275415-b.fedwy1.wa.home.com Date: Tue Apr 3 14:36:15 Hi, Well, I started lurking Oggie's, DSF, Tech forum and (IIRC) Suggestion forum about March '97. Started posting April or May. In those early days, Oggie's was the hangout of the "top" Diablo players. Most of those people couldn't care less how the game worked, and their idea of establishing a fact was along the lines of "Well, I never saw it and nobody I know has, either, so it doesn't exist." That was a rough paraphrase of Eugene's claim that GPoW did not exist -- he later on clained he "knew" that it didn't exist long before anyone on DSF. Oggie's started out with a bunch of right brain people who had no clue of what a fact or a logical argument was. It didn't take long for Oggie's to degenrate into "you're wrong"/"no, I'm right" flame wars with both sides arguing from shakey "facts" or half baked opinions. By the end of Summer, '97, Oggie's was a flame fest/troll fest pretty much devoid of useful information. Meanwhile, the DSF of early '97 had people like DarkSniper and Mirandia posting and promoting non-PK, legit play. There were also more technical people like CodeMyster. This formed a core of people who were interested in the game, how to play it and how it worked. And also who were opposed to cheating. Unfortunately, my memory of names and times is not that good. However, by summer of '97 people had started to test things about the game and post their results on DSF. About that same time, some people started "reading" the code and adding that information. More and more of what was known about the game was based on hard evidence and less on casual observation. Things like the price formula were first started as empirical observation and then the code readers, using the observed facts as a guide, found the actual tables and formulas. One of the last things that was still largely a matter for speculation was how the game generated items. A large number of guesses were floating around. Then, two guys whose name I cannot remember came up with a simple little utility to freeze the computer's clock. That lead to the present answers on item generation. After that, discovering factual information about Diablo became more and more the work of the code readers. When Jarulf posted his first edition guide early '98, the days of discovery were pretty much over. Sorry that my account isn't more useful. As one that's been here since a couple of months after the start and that, until a few months ago, read every post on this forum, I should have been more help. However, as I said, I have a very poor memory for names and faces. On my computer at work, I still had many of the early posts archived (before Jarulf's, that was the only way to keep that information). But I didn't have copies at home, and since all that info was either in Jarulf's or on various people's sites, I didn't bother copying it when I retired. Sourceror (he of many AKAs) used to have an extensive library of DSF posts archived. He often used them to refute/support an argument. However, I haven't seen any of his incarnations (that I know of) on this forum for a long time. He was still posting on LL a short while ago as Aceto, but I don't know if he's still around. If he still has the archives, and if you can figure out how to get him to give you a reply, that would be a gold mine of information going quite a way back. --Pete Subject: Not a major actor in this play but.... From: Zorton Host: h00a0cc62dce8.ne.mediaone.net Date: Tue Apr 3 16:40:30 Hello all, I started to read Oggie's, shortly after I got the game (I was a latecomer) and it soon became evident that it wasn't the place for me. It closed shortly thereafter. I then found this forum. I had played only single player 'till reading the forum enticed me to try some public (!) games. After two or three quick PK's, I posted a question looking for some honest players. I was greeted by many people from all over the world, offering to play. I hooked up with some great people, most of whom I still have a friendship with. They are the famous, semi-famous and the virtually unknown but I would have never met them, had it not been for the DSF. I'm afraid I can't shed much light on what the discoveries were or who made them (a good job of that has already been done) but, with few exceptions, this was always a friendly intellegent place to hang out. It seemed to me to have kind of a "club" atmosphere and I always felt welcome. Once I got D2, I sort of left here for the D2SF forum. I only stayed there for a short time before landing on Bolty's Lurker Lounge. No, I'm not one of the famous ones and the only discovery I made was how to get myself to this forum but I had a great time here every night, weather I posted or just read. This got a bit longer than I wanted and turned into more of an auto-bio then an answer but...... Zorton Subject: Like you're gonna read this... From: Das Regard Host: IP-84-112.riv.pe.net Date: Tue Apr 10 23:33:58 Hehe, now that it's on pg 2, I'm sure no one will really read this, but some quick things to mention. I'm sure the main stuff has already been covered. Nevertheless, some of my thoughts on this. On Mon Apr 2 00:01:11, Kasreyn wrote: > Hi everyone, > > First off, a definition. I define "old reg" as anyone > who was here before my time. I arrived a bit over a year ago and > lurked for about 2 weeks before plunging right in. =P Which makes me NOT an old reg (nor a reg really) hehe since I posted on and off for so long. Sure, I may have posted before you, and my volume of posts HAD (notice "had") been sizable, but I never posted continuously. Did you know that HowGozit considered himself a newbie and called me reg??? I couldn't believe that! I have a lot of respect for him in his posts and knowledge. > > My question tonight is: Can you older regs give me a good > picture of the early days, the days of yore, of the forum? Umm..much of what everyone else had to say. I haven't read everyone's but yeah I would probably agree for the most part of what everyone had said. Shheeesh, I'm trying to think the first time I started posting. Ooohh, I feel kinda old (but not that old). The first thing that comes to my mind is strat and plenty of it. But then that's when Diablo was being dissected. Strat guides were coming out and new discoveries still. Even a year ago, I remember Moriah's TK post. Probably the best most recent strat post I can recall. I remembered a time when there was no such things as evals!!! The first time I saw "Eval my War plz" post was when I started to post again well over a year ago. But then, this is the progression, since Diablo has been almost completely revealed. Still, I wouldn't be surprised if we find something excitingly new! Something you dont see nowadays is my rantings of the constricting ring. HAHAHA, ahhh memories. I have some stuff in my harddrive still. sigh. I posted wayyyy too much on the CR but it was my niche! When I regularly posted, you'll always get a dose of CR info even if it's just at the end of my post. If you want to see my wacked out writings of the CR, Dako-ta has been gracious to archive my recent ones! Thanks Da! HA! I always find a way to include something about my most loved/hated ring! Oh yeah, just glancing now...I dont see that L*andru anymore!!! Another sign of a reg is when they don't spell the bot's entire name, mispell it purposely, or not mentioning the name completely (even when he's gone and can't possibly put you on his bad list anymore) HAHAHAHA, sorry more of a personal inside joke than anything! > I get > these tantalizing nuggets of the past from sites like the LL, > names like Jarulf, Trucidation, Bolty, Crystalion, Landru ;), > Bostick, Woody, Lok, Das Regard, Moriah, KingofPain, the list of > vanished elder regs goes on... HAHAHA. Well thanks for mentioning me! It's nice see me listed here. But when I first started posting, I was in the noobie shoes when Jarulf and Bolt and Bostic were the true reggies of the DSF. When I was a newbie, I asked that basic newbie question "How do you kill the Butcher" and thought that the bot was a real person that took time to count posts and rate them. !!!! (I bet the real regs are laughing at me now!!!) ;) Oggies was a distant memory meaning that I know about it but never posted on it. I was in the new DSF time, but Odgen's Tavern was still a Blizzard forum (there used to be just Oggies and no DSF), but still a cesspool of spam. Then they did away of Oggies completely. I remember a short fear taht those people would come over to DSF, but it never really happened. > I'm really interested to know > what battles they fought, what flame wars they engaged in, what > discoveries they made, and what trolls they ignored Well, I didn't join flame wars, but hey it brought out the best and worst of us! I remember writing a loooong post about never responding to flames anymore! HAHA what good did that do!!! One person I remembered was Sushi!!! Not the worst of the flamers actually, but just someone that popped in my head. Hehehe, you might have been present when he first came onto the DSF, I'm not sure. He was somewhat old, but not that old so you might have encountered him. That was one of the more recent flamers, well at least I considered to be more recent. > (hey, there > must have been trolls before Dr.J and GRENDEL, right?). And I > don't even know that these are the eldest, earliest regs - were > there DSF regs before Jarulf's time? Is anyone still on this > forum a reg who was posting the day the forum went online? Did Crys post before Jarulf? I think Bos posted before Jarulf. I can't remember. I was posting when all 3 were relatively posting. I remember when the number of posts by some people were over 100! Wow. And nowadays, that's practically unheard of! It > just struck me today that since Diablo is over 4 years old now, > it stands to reason the DSF is of a similar age. Thus, all the > events that I have known at the DSF aren't even a quarter of its > history. Egad! 4 years???? It all seemed like two years at most! Seriously it does. hahaaha. But yes you're right. > I know this seems strange to ask out of the blue. I count myself > (and anyone newer than me) among the "new regs". Well, if my memory serves me correctly, I still remember your name so a "new" reg may not be so appropriate. How about just plain reg! :) > I'd > like to think the new regs have managed to keep the DSF alive > despite D2 stealing so many older regs. Honestly....I haven't played D2!!! I have played beta and it was a lot of fun, but I've been so busy that I haven't played D2 yet. I haven't posted here lately as well. In fact, I just put in a reply to Mirajj's DSF breakdown and that's on page 14 or something like that! I know, BAD ME! > However, I'm > interminably curious about the past (before I decided on computer > science, I was seriously considering becoming an historian ;). > So, if anyone can shed some light on the grand old golden days of > the DSF, I'll be all ears. =) Wow, what has been amazing with Diablo it the intertwining of CS knowledge as well as good ol fashion writing. I was in the strat writing realm and my technical knowledge is horrendous. Thus, I was glad when I can understand a little when I wrote Constricting Ring Analysis. For me, it had a lot more technical information (or what I considered as technical info) than I ever thought it would. Hmm...,but I'm digressing. Well, good luck and I hope that you still keep on posting in the DSF. This has been a great forum for many many people and some people still lurk around here! Das Reagard PS. You know what I collected a billion quotes or common phrases that people used (regs and newbies). It just spanned over a small period though...I gotta rummage through my harddrive. PPS Oh yes, another sign that this is Das Regard's post. I tend to ramble. Sorry for it being so long an so irrelevant for the most part. ;) > -Kasreyn > > P.S. In other news, my new sorceror, Lord_Mhoram, got his first > dot at 24 today Congratz! > (stupid dungeon layout forced me to fight a lot > so I levelled, I was aiming for 1@21 or 1@22). The goal with > this character is to set him up as a tank and time all playing > sessions until he's 50, and finally decide if Paul was right to > claim 50 in a week is doable. ;-) > > P.P.S. Speaking of history, my current reading project is Bruce > Catton's "Army of the Potomac." I *highly* recommend it > to anyone interested in Civil War history! "What post would be of mine if it had no mentioning of that hated consricting ring?" |