Ankhesenamun
(usual poster)
04/13/01 04:36 PM
Re: Religion and empowerment [re: Ramessu] Thank you for your response, Ramessu! This is an interesting discussion, but I'm afraid you may have missed my meaning in some part.


> .. I believe you have a couple of fallacies in your thinking,
> .. the neters gave us free will there is NO grand scheme...
> .. The Book of the Dead is about progression, about working
> .. your way up into the higher strata of beings. Eventually
> .. attaining the knowledge and understanding of the neters.

OK, this *was* what I was referring to as "the grand scheme." It's not a "grand scheme" in the sense of a predestined life, as it would seem that you have interpretted my statement, but a "grand scheme" in the sense of a hierarchy of beings and forces. (1) Also known as "The Big Picture." At our current level (the level of animals/human beings) we are not as powerful as the netjeru- even though some people sometimes fancy themselves to be so. That was my point, and I did not mean to imply that we were either completely powerless or that we had no control over our lives. As for eventually elevating ourselves to the status of the netjeru, I must admit that it's not something I've really thought about. (2) So unfortunately it's not something I can give much comment to. Several of the Names which we worship were, at one point, human beings so I suppose it's logical to assume that the same thing could happen again. (3)


> .. If there was they could do a better job than we ever could.

OK, so what you are saying here is that if there was a "grand scheme" to life then the netjeru could better achieve that goal than we could? This would use "grand scheme" in the sense of a final destination?

This brings up a couple of interesting concepts. First, are you here implying that there is no "point," no "meaning" to life or the creation? (4) I'm not arguing this point (yet ), because there are pros and cons to both sides of the argument and I have not yet found a reason to select either side. I would be grateful if you could share your reasoning, since that might help clear up this dilemna for me.

Second, this statement seems to be implying that if there was some sort of goal, we would have no right to participate in it- but what if there is a goal of this world and we are a part of it?


> .. Also an assumpption, many times throughout the
> .. Per-em-Heru you state I am Anpu, I am <insert
> .. name of Neter>:, this is to show the Neters lie
> .. within yourself.

Ouch- what an oversight on my part. I admit that you got me there- I'm still not used to dealing with those passages. (5) They make me uncomfortable, but you are right that this is a common element in Kemetic religion. My discomfort is probably a legacy of the other religions I have studied and practiced during my life. However, in my defense I will say that I claimed that *most*- not all- religions make this distinction. Kemetic religion is one of the exceptions. A very important exception.^_^


> .. This is to me escapism,

That's why I said that this sort of an attitude could be good or bad depending on how it was used. When it evokes the sort of escapism/fatalism which you have mentioned then that is a bad use. When it allows us to accept things which we can not change (and there are such things), then it is a good use.


> .. why do you think that any Neter would bother with anyone
> .. of this earth?

Because we are their children. Why would they have created us if they had no interest in us?


> .. The ablilities to deal with our problems lie within
> .. ourselves, the tools to bring these abilities out in
> .. us were given to us by Heru-ta-ta-fu

Right- for the most part. There are some situations where we just can't do anything, or when we've done all that we can do and still feel like we need more. These are the instances in which I pray to the netjeru for help. I don't do this often- I prefer to solve my own problems- but there are instances in which I can't do anything, or in which I can't do enough. There is nothing wrong with asking for help in those instances. When I mentioned earlier that people use religion to petition the deities for help in instances in which they were powerless, I did not mean to imply that people were powerless all the time- only that they were powerless some of the time. And they are. Neither you nor I can do everything all the time all by ourselves; we have limits because we are finite beings not gods. (6)


> .. If people are to afraid to deal with things and lay
> .. the blame on god or demon then they will get no
> .. where in life.

On the other hand, if people feel as though they have to do everything by themselves and have nowhere to release those duties which they can not perform or ask for assistance in cases where they can not do enough, most of them will go mad or have a heart attack and die. (7)


> .. why would the Neters insult us by not letting us
> .. solve our own problems.

When you were a child and incapable of supporting yourself, did you consider it an insult that your parents took care of you?

I'm not saying that people should resign everything to Netjer and then sit on their butts- I tried to cover that base by saying that prayer and the aid of the Names could be abused. But they are there for us when we need them. There is a balance and reciprocity in our relationship, where both the extreme of us leaving everything up to Netjer and the extreme of taking all the weight on ourselves are imbalanced and unhealthy. That was my point.


> .. The time of the Neters walking the earth is long over

The time of the netjeru is over? So they have no more influence on this world? If that was the case, then what would be the point of religion? Religion is a reciprocal arrangement, if people got nothing out of it- if the netjeru didn't hold up their half of the bargain- then what would be the point? The netjeru are not dead, but such a thing can only be experienced. Religion can not be argued. (8) Perhaps I have misinterpretted your statement. I will leave further comments on this, then, until you can respond and clarify the issue.

Perhaps some illustrations would be useful. I'm sure that if we gave examples we would see that we do not disagree as much as we think we do. Here's one which I am dealing with right now:

I am moving far, far away. While I lived at my old home, I fed stray cats. Now that I am leaving, I must leave those strays behind- they can not come with me for several reasons. Now, this is something which I find to be extremely distressing, because I love these cats and have come to think of them as very close friends. So I pray to Bast to help me find a way to ensure their well-being after I leave.

Now, this does not mean that I now sit back and do nothing- I have been to several different people, trying to track down the local no-kill shelter. I am doing my part, but since this is so important to me I often feel that I can not do enough, so in those instances I pray for divine assistance. Now, I have found that the shelter can not take them in, but I haven't given up. I am still looking for a place to take them where they will be fed and cared for, where they will not have to fear for their lives. I have a couple more plans to consider before I run out of ideas, but let's say that both of these plans (gods forbid) come to no good. What if I was forced to leave my home without having found a place to house these cats? (9)

Through no fault of my own, through no lack of trying, I was unable to provide for them any longer. And so I say as I leave, "They are in the hands of Bast. I commend them to you, Lady, and pray that you watch over them and keep them safe." This is the only resort that I have- would you say that this is an act of irresponsibility? Or would you say that this was a prayer of no effect- that Bast is dead to this world?

Wen Ma'at hen'a-ten ra-neb! (10)

Ankhesenamun








Options ...
  1. Return to Ramessu's letter
  2. Return to commentary on Ankhesenamun 's previous letter





(1) How could we know any of this through our own efforts? Why would the Netjeru be explaining such things to us, unless they intended us to rise to such a stature that our knowledge of them had a practical significance. It won't suffice to say that the deceased needs to know these things in order to pass some tests in the afterlife, because those tests exist by the choice of the netjeru; one merely begs the question through such a non-answer. Click here to return.

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(2) See previous note. The sales pitch for Leah's point of view continues; here we see the traditional moment of feigned wide eyed surprise. "Why, Dr. Grabbucks, are you telling me that your Magic Egyptian Elixir cures leprosy, rheumatism and athlete's foot?" (Crowd murmurs, wanting to hear more). Click here to return.

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(3) ... and, continuing the sterotypical snake oil salesman pitch, here is where the assistant 'gets over his surprise'. "But you know, Dr. Grabbucks, I suppose that Ancient Egyptian magical elixirs have long been know for their miraculous healing properties ..." Imhotep was deified in the minds of the people for his accomplishments, not for his ability to memorize some occultist's vain theories. As for the deification of the family of Wesir, the historicity of any of these figures is, at best, hypothetical, and how much would even be known about the historical Wesir, anyway. Vague guesses about the undocumented lives of prototypes for mythological figures is a slender thread to hang a theology on.

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(4) Ah, the ultimate reward for the endless effort of so many to rise above man's fundamental nature - existential despair. One walking down this road will endlessly search for the answer to this question, never finding it, because it isn't there to be found. What is the purpose of life? By what means would it be established, and by whom, and on what authority? That of God? But this answers nothing, because it only postpones the question. The response to that answer would then be, what is God's reason for being? If He lacks one, and our reason for being is defined in terms of something which would not be but for the Lord's then meaningless existence, then how meaningful could our existences really be?

From the moment that one lets some 'holy man' or 'seer' convince one to ignore one's own instincts, and pretend that one's own animal nature doesn't exist, and that the pleasures of life are unimportant, one has already started down to road to nihilism, and ultimate madness if convention fails to obstruct one's progress toward this fatal enlightenment. The answer is to stop struggling against the reality that it is in one's nature to struggle and to submit to the will of one's creator, by embracing the reality of one's own fundamental core nature, that which makes one human, which will include the ability to think about how that nature might best be expressed.

Focus on living well in this life, and helping others to do likewise, and that means fully, with one's eyes wide open, knowing that pleasures will soon pall, when not shared with others, and that pleasures can be intellectual or spiritual, as well as sensual. If one does that, the need to find some sort of Occult significance to the fact of one's birth won't seem so necessary any more. Should one fail to do so, one will be left with the unanswerable question, why does one prefer life to death, existence over nonexistence, either for oneself,or for others. To reject that which makes us alive, as so many will counsel us to do, is to cease to live.

Does Ankhesenamun want an answer? Let her go out drinking and with her friends, eat a hearty meal, spend time with her family, read a few good books, laugh at a play, write a little poetry ... and when she has forgotten that she ever asked that question, her forgetfulness will be its best answer, the only one it should ever have needed.

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(5) ... and the sales pitch is complete. "Gosh, you're right Ramessu", as Ankhesenamun 'admits' that which she wished to promote all along, being a member of Leah's organization, as she does.

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(6) Why this assumption that the gods are not finite beings? Judging from the myths, they would seem to have problems of their own, in an all-too-human way.

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(7) This would seem to be a little overdramatic, as atheists have been living with such a thought for years.

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(8) And yet Ankhesenamun continues to argue it. Before we jump on her for this, though, let's appreciate what she seems to be saying. What she has been taking issue with is the line of criticism heard from Ramessu. What she is arguing about, is not what one might call, one's theological axioms (is Bast there, and is she answering my prayers), but the implications of those axioms, which is what the criticism of a theological view will focus on.

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(9) Ever notice how the concerns of Neopagans (and, sorry, folks, but the House is culturally Neopagan) rarely seem to be about other human beings? You never hear one of them giving an example concerning a troubled child, or an ailing parent; always, we hear about their housepets. What does it say about where somebody's heart or life is, when he can't see any greater depth in his relationship with his family than he can with his cat? Maybe that the former has barely developed at all?

The clergy in a real religion would be worried by this. Neopagans, however, don't seem to give it any thought at all, again raising the question of whether Kemeticism in specific, or Neopaganism in general, is helping those participating in it to grow as people, or assisting them in developing a willful obliviousness to the fact that they're not growing at all, and maybe diminishing in spirit.

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(10) Click here for Ramessu's response. How very interesting, again, that while Ramessu, as we shall see in a later post, feels that it would be inappropriate to ask God to concern Himself with the well-being of a thirteen year old girl (Ann Frank) and her family, as they hide from the Nazis, he sees nothing odd with asking for divine intervention on behalf of a few cats. Where are our priorities, Ramessu?

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