Brilliant Studios, San Francisco, Friday November 18, 1994 JK = Jai Young Kim JK: The new album sounds awesome. Can you fill me in on what's happened since AngelDust? RB: We went on a really long tour and through the process of that tour kind of decided that Jim, our last guitar player, wasn't really working out. And we had kinda reached the end of the road as far as creativity and working together goes. So by the end of the Angel Dust tour we were pretty much out of our wits and were looking for someone to kinda help us out and start something new and take us in the direction that we felt we kinda wanted to go, and Jim was stopping us from going. So we finished that tour and just went through a lot of shit basically. I had a lot going on in my life. I had a horrible year. Finding a guitar player wasn't really easy. The whole process of making this record took a little while, because we had to find a new guitar player and we had been on the road for a long time. I think the initial impulse in making this record was to kinda keep things a little more stripped down this time around and keep things simpler. 'Cause I think at this point in our lives simpler seems to say a lot more to us than complex does. So we try to keep things to a
minimum and try not to be so indulgent in what we were doing. We're keeping in check where to stop adding things to the sound that we were
making. I think a lot of that was taking part in the songwriting process. So we wrote songs for maybe six months and wrote more songs
than we'd ever written for any other record. I think going into the studio we had 20 songs. We also wanted to do something new as far as producers. We'd always use the same producer on all of our previous recordings, Matt Wallace. And we wanted to try someone new - we had a new guitar player, we wanted to try something new, something with a new sound, just someone who would give us different soundscapes, some place to go. So we tried this guy Andy [Wallace, no relation to Matt] and recorded in this studio in upstate New York that he was really crazy about - Bearsville it was called. And we went there, we just got back from there, we were there for five weeks in Bearsville, kinda isolated ourselves up in the woods and made the record up there which was a lot different for us, and mixed the record over the past month in New York City. And that whole process was really different for us too. So hopefully I think this record and the process of making this record... it was a lot different from any other record we've made. And it sounds different, to me. JK: So with getting Trey Spruance, was the choice obvious since he played with Mike? RB: Yeah, it was really obvious. The point when we came back and we knew that he was an option it seemed too obvious and it was
the easiest way to go. You know, I mean - there's Trey, he's a great
guitar player, Mike knows him, and I played with him and knew he would
work - and it seemed so obvious and so easy that I think it just made
more sense for us to try out a couple different options before we
settled for the most obvious choice. So we did. We played with a lot
of different guitar players, trying different things. And a lot of
them were really great. But when it came right down to it I think Trey
had the most diversity.
JK: Compositionally also?
RB: Compositionally, yeah. He has a really good ear for
writing stuff, he has a really good ear for what sounds great, he
understands keyboards really well, the bounds between keyboards and
guitars, and he's really diverse. We've never been wanting to limit
ourselves to one particular kind of music or one particular anything.
And it was clear from the start that Trey was the same way. He can do
anything, from classical to whatever. Not that we're trying to imitate
any genre, but he just has a lot of diversity that way. So when we played
with him it was just really apparent that that's what sounded the
best.
JK: And so how did the songwriting method change?
RB: It's always been really democratic. Most of the the
songs this time I think started with Billy [Gould, bass player], playing
with his computer setup, bringing in ideas, and we'd all kind of work
around them. Billy has a really good ear, for keyboards especially, and
he plays a lot with guitars; he wasn't bringing in just bass ideas or
anything.
JK: The song "Acoustic Groove" [renamed "King for a Day"
for the album] - when I first heard it, it reminded me some of some
Angel Dust stuff: very well textured, big keyboard chords. The
sounds were amazing.
RB: Yeah, I like the textures of that song a lot. I think
the textures are what's really gonna eventually make or break that song.
The string sound was really nice, and just the breath of the acoustic
guitars was really important. It sounds great, the strumming of that
guitar. And the intro and the outtro are my favorite parts - the simpler
parts, going into the song, coming out of the song, I really like a lot.
It gets really dense in the middle, which is a part of the whole journey
of that song, but my favorite parts of the song are going into it and
coming out of it. It's very Roxy Music to me, almost David Bowie, sorta
like a surreal sort of traveling composition to me.
JK: What music have you been listening to lately?
RB: Mostly independent, smaller bands. I really like
this band Team Dresch [from Portland/Olympia].
JK: Oh, I'm planning on seeing them tonight...
RB: Are you? I saw them last night. They're really good.
I think I'll see them tonight too. I saw them in New York, and I saw them
last night. They're really cool, I like that band. Have you heard the
record by that band Low? It's really cool. It's like on a Virgin
subsidiary, can't remember the name of the record but it's a really
amazing record; really, really slow stuff, but really nice. Good
harmonies. I'm big on harmonies in pop music.
[Trey Spruance walks in.]
JK: Hey...
JK: So we were just talking about what we've been
listening to lately. I know I saw you at a Boredoms show a few months
ago. What kind of stuff have you been listening to lately - recorded
and live?
TS: You really want to know? Okay, well, I've been
listening to a lot of... there's a group called Runzelstirn and
Gurgelstock from Sweden that I'm really into. And Voicecrack from
Sweden is really really good.
JK: So you're into like this Swedish...
TS: No, no, I'm just starting in Sweden for some
arbitrary reason. But I love Runzelstirn and Gurgelstock, they're
really good. There's plenty of Japanese bands I've been listening
to a lot of, aside from the Boredoms. There's like, you name it, just
pretty much "the plethora." I got into that for a while. Things in that
vein, but got kinda tired of that. Sorta branching out into other areas
of fucked up music. And probing back into early soundtracks to different
movies, and stuff like that.
JK: What influences does this new album have that
earlier Faith No More didn't have?
RB: Musical influences? I don't know... I think it's
best probably not to have any musical influences. I would hate that
something would have some sort of point that we would have looked at
and tried to somehow emulate or imitate, I don't know. I've never done
that. When things are all done, I think some times, "Oh yeah, it sounds
a little bit like something else," but I don't think we ever set out
with an influence going into something.
I think it's a really overused statement that something that
someone is listening to is somehow gonna translate into something that
they create later. I never think about things in those terms. I don't
think any of us really think about things in those terms. Like maybe
Trey's listening to a lot... you know... I don't think he's gonna come
in and try and get Mike to sing in Swedish or something.
TS: Exactly. Is not applicable.
RB: I think sometimes the mood of things maybe will put
you in that mood, but I don't think anyone sets out, like tries to imitate
something that they've been into. Or I would hope not, anyway - right?
TS: Certainly there are unconscious things, otherwise we
would probably be playing something a little less tangible. But we don't
talk about it, you know? It just ends up that way.
JK: So what do you guys discuss in the creative process?
Let's say you had a disagreement about how some part of a song would go.
How did you guys follow through with different points of views?
RB: Someone usually gives in.
TS: Sometimes you end up living with something - for a
long time - that not everybody is entirely excited about that suddenly
somebody will have an idea where to take it to. We sat on some of them
for a while in various states of completion before we actually were gonna
record them. So they really evolved more than having like a whole lot
of conscious application thrown on top of them.
JK: Okay. We were discussing "Acoustic Groove." How
would you describe it?
TS: I like the regal feel of it... Not so much regal -
it does change its ambience, but - it sorta maintains a largeness to it,
like a presence, like you're inside some sort of large chamber of some
type, and without a bunch of reverb. It's not effects that are causing
that, it's the mood of the music. I think it's very moody. It reminds me
of a Peter Murphy solo album or something like that.
JK: Okay, the song "The Last to Know."
TS (to JK): Yeah, I have
similar feelings on that one. I like the space that that song creates.
Very large space.
RB: Very dense. Texture's very dense.
TS: Oh really? Jimi Hendrix, right? [More
laughs.] Thanks, yeah, that was a fiveinthemorning
one, for sure.
JK: All right. "The Gentle Art of Making Enemies."
RB: Angstridden. Good punctuation. Good
definition and instruments for me. No keyboards.
JK: So what'd you do on this song?
JK: "Evidence."
RB: I like that song, it's pretty different for us. It's
very laid back, groovy. There are some real strings on it, the punctuating
sort of strings... a sort of Soul II Soul vibe.
TS: Yeah, it creates a pretty viable, alternate world to
me. There aren't too many holes in it. You can actually get lost in that
world without having something obstruct your visit that would remind you
that it's what you would call a rock band playing it.
JK: "Cuckoo for Caca" - that's the one that starts with
these tribal kinds of drums and launches into this headbanger
freakout.
TS: Yeah, it's very headbanger.
JK: "Digging the Grave" - that was the very short,
fast...
TS: Youth Brigade?... Not even that really. It's Youth
BrigademeetsGreen Day. The attitude is Youth Brigade though,
more than Green Day. [Chuckles.] Just throw your punk references
around. Now that punk has plenty of conventions, you can go ahead and
milk its value.
JK: If you could compare Faith No More to a 1970s' rock
band, which would you choose?
RB: [Long pause.] ELO?
JK: "Ricochet" - I liked how there were moments when it
was exotic and droney.
TS: We just work with these arbitrary titles. They don't
mean anything. Don't pay any attention...
RB: It was written the day that Kurt died. That's just
why it was called "Nirvana." [Pause.] I like that one. The vocal
harmonies are really really great. And those are my favorite lyrics on
the record.
TS: I could concur with that: "It's always funny until
someone gets hurt/And then it's just hilarious."
JK: Okay, "Star A.D." Those were sampled horns, right?
RB: No, those were live, real horns. Horn section
came in.
TS (incredulous): Could you
actually think that that saxophone solo was actually played on a
sampler?
JK: Yeah, well there's this new digital instrument
that...
TS: I know what you're talking about. Virtual Acoustic
or something? That thing's fuckin' amazing! Yeah, I know what
you mean. [Cracks up.] That's funny, competing with the Virtual
Acoustic synthesizer for sound quality!
JK: That's some statement about the state of the art in
technology today.
TS: Sure. The best thing about that synthesizer is taking
those sounds way the fuck out, though. More than making them sound
real... God, man, you can take it to some pretty nice places. You could
have a 30foottall bassoon player playing a
500foottall bassoon. I mean, really, it's fuckin'
incredible! [We're all laughing.]
JK: I love that song by the way. That 3/4 meter, the
Motown drums, that '70s funk thing, the organ, that bass line straight
out of a spy movie theme...
TS: Yeah, those are the elements. You got it. You got
them all.
JK: What do you like about that song?
TS: I like the chords that the horn guys did during the
verses; they sound really thick. That's my favorite part. That and that
little spy section... That's a nice little breath of fresh air. It opens
up into a space that the album never touches upon anywhere else.
JK: I like how this album changes spaces, from one
beautiful space to another.
TS: Yeah, discrete.
JK: Like in comparison, "The Velvet Hammer"
[renamed "Caralho Voador"]... what language is Patton singing?
TS: That's Portuguese. What other language would you
speak for doing a Bossa Nova?
JK: Any samples on this album you can identify?
RB: I don't even think there's any samples
on the record.
JK: Oh yeah, most of the keyboards were piano,
strings,...
RB: Instrument sounds for the most part. And some
noise stuff.
JK (to Trey): And what
kind of guitars were you playing?
TS: A Seville Les Paul copy, my roommate's guitar.
That's about it. I played a Fender Stratocaster, a real cheap one.
I'd tried other guitars to try and get different sounds, just figuring
that just because I was picking up the things that were closest at hand
I could probably do better, and it wasn't the case. It just happened
that the stuff I started with was what I ended up with. I really couldn't
improve on those sounds very much.
JK: When you go back to recording with Bungle, will
your guitar sound be different? Is your approach...?
TS: One hundred percent tailspin different.
Definitely. And that's a good thing for all parties involved.
[Pauses.] Actually some of the heavy sounds on this record
are really good, they're better than anything I've ever gotten. I
wouldn't really want to mess with that, I kinda like where these are
at.
JK: How were you approached by Faith No More?
TS: I knew they were trying out different guitar
players. Yeah, once the Jim Martin spot opened up, there was a whole
bunch of auditions happening. The obvious thing that people think is,
"Okay, now Mike has a chance to get his friend in the band." It really
actually is pretty opposite of that. I think Mike was the one who was
most against it. 'Cause for whatever the reasons, there's plenty of
reasons...
JK: Like some kind of incestuous thing maybe?
TS: There's part that, we hadn't been getting along
absolutely perfectly in the year before, and... You can just see how
complicated the whole thing becomes with people's perceptions, they
don't really understand that I have no intention on "Mr. Bungle-izing"
Faith No More in any way, but that's the automatic thing people are
gonna think.
JK: Well you don't want to go in there sounding like
Jim Martin either.
TS: Right. I feel like my job in this whole thing has
been to find... Okay, they weren't happy with Jim Martin, and nobody
fucking wants this thing to sound like Mr. Bungle. What could really
bring out... what's good about Faith No More? What could really help
this band achieve the heights it wants to go to? Or do what it needs
to do? So I just thought that way, without thinking about what
I would do. Initially what I would do is what comes naturally
to me. I just kinda learned the language of Faith No More and tried to
emphasize things.
JK: How was Andy Wallace different from Matt Wallace?
RB: He's a lot older, he wears glasses, he has a wife
named "Sweetie," he likes the east coast as opposed to the west, he
wasn't as good at kissing our ass as Matt was, he didn't use drum samples
without us knowing,... He seems to get different sounds on different
projects he works for as opposed to Matt, who I think carries the same
sound from project to project. That's what initially drew us to him
[Andy] I think. He has consistently good sound but a different sound
with every band he works with. I like that about him. And he's kinda
like my dad. Very well versed. And a little insane.
TS: Yeah.
RB: He's a little bit crazy, which is good. Worked well
for us, the crazy part.
TS: The guy has so much experience behind him. He's
done a wide field of stuff...
JK: What's the touring plan?
RB: I don't know. We're gonna start touring in March.
The album isn't coming out until March. It's gonna be a huge world tour.
We'll tour for probably a year, everywhere we can go. We'd like to take
it to as many places as we can. Start out in Europe, and then probably
come back and do America, then probably do Europe again, and Australia,
and Japan. Probably Europe a couple times. I bet it'll take about a year.
Unless of course the record's a big flop... and just end it. Quickly.
TS: It'll bite the dust in Istanbul. And we'll all just
take it from there. We won't even be able to afford plane tickets home.
RB: Go to Ishtar.
JK: So when you play in San Francisco, what venue
would you do?
RB: Bottom of the Hill, I think we're talking about?
Some place small, hopefully start out, you know,
backtoourroots sort of vibe. We would like to do a
really cheap show some place, very inexpensive, maybe a bigger place.
Make it really affordable.
JK: Would Trey object to coming out and disco dancing
before the first song?
TS: I'd love to do that. If you had the proper lighting
system and the right kind of music...
RB: Thematically, if it works, I don't know. You'd have
to ask Trey...
TS: Absolutely, I'd love to open the show with my moves.
I'm a little rusty; have to give me a week to brush up...
JK (to Trey): When you toured with
Bungle, you were always covered up.
TS: I'm covered up now too. It's very subtle.
JK: Have you guys been doing other jobs in the past
year?
RB: I have another rock band, Star 69 [later changed to
Imperial Teen]. We've been bringing in a little income. Made $200 last
week. Opened for Hole.
TS: I've been doing a bunch of stuff, musical things.
Stuff that I can't really say that I do it all the time. What I mean is,
we have products out, and I'm not really a personality in the products.
But I keep pretty busy.
JK (to Trey): Do you spend most of
your time composing away from other musicians, or do you do a lot of
your composing on the spot?
TS: Pretty equal variety of both, it depends. Depends
on what's called for.
JK: But do you go through cycles where you try to avoid
people just so that you can...
TS: Absolutely. I'm in one of those right now.
JK (to Roddy): How about
you?
RB: Same way. I think I can take certain songs to a
certain point, and then I start questioning myself, and then I'll
usually look for someone else's input. I always like a drummer's input.
Dynamics really interest me.
TS: There's really only two different fuckin' ways - in
my opinion - and the only thing that works for me is having total
control or no control at all. And at the beginning you decide which way
it's gonna be. There's no halfway, in my view. I couldn't like take
something to a certain point and then go, "Okay, you guys take over now."
I can take input, but something in me drives me really fuckin' crazy
until that decision's made and it's gotta be seen through on either side.
That's my own personal little quirk.
JK (to Roddy): Was this
album any easier to make for you?
RB: Yes and no. It wasn't an easy record to make.
Considering what we were dealing with, it took the right amount of time.
I'm glad we didn't spend any longer on it, that's for sure.
TS: Didn't seem like there was any time being wasted or
anything. Everything that was being pursued ended up being in the final
thing that you're hearing. There wasn't a whole lot of wasted motion
really.
JK: What's the story behind "Take This Bottle"?
RB: One of "those" songs; you've seen the video, right?
The road cases, the guitar, packing them up, the bus, coming, going, the
chicks, the backstage... you know what it's about.
TS: And you've seen the commercials of the man beating
the woman violently, all of that too...
RB: The telephone, the question marks,...
TS: People listening underneath, the fear in their eyes,
they know something really awful is happening... It's all there.
RB: It started out like almost a country/western sort of
ballade, rock ballade thing. It sounded so much like that, that we were
calling it the Guns'n'Roses song.
JK: What did you guys think of Guns'n'Roses after touring
with them?
RB: Probably the same that I thought before we started
the tour. I just didn't like myself as much. I felt the same about them.
JK: Metallica?
RB: I would have to say the same. Nothing changed for
me. I knew what I was getting into, I knew what they were about, and when
I left, I feel like I still knew.
JK: Were there any bands you toured with where your
impression did change of them through the course of the tour?
RB: Babes in Toyland I liked a lot more musically.
They've improved a lot since I'd known them before. Robert Plant, you
would think he would be a jaded rock star but he was really a cool person,
really humbled and friendly, a good person. I thought a lot of him.
JK (to Trey): Are you
psyched about touring?
TS: Well, everybody has been pointing out how horrible
it is or how much of a trying task it is. That point has been made to
me repeatedly ever since I began. So I don't know what to think really.
I like the idea of touring, I like the idea of seeing things and meeting
people and being in places that I've never been and playing music. But
I've been warned so much I don't know what to think.
RB: People like to ham it up. It's their life, you know;
if it isn't really torturous, then what have they been doing all these
years? To say that it hasn't been torturous means they haven't been
working hard. So of course they have to act like it's
really horrible. That just implies that they've really
been working hard all this time.
TS: I suspected that angle. So yeah, I'm looking forward
to it. A nice thing too is that it seems with all the time on the bus and
doing things like that, I don't really mind that so much. I feel like I'm
really distracted here in San Francisco; I have a lot of friends and I
have a lot of fun here, and sometimes it takes me away from shit I
should be getting done. And I feel like in a way it'll help that
aspect; I'll be somewhat detached. Of course there'll be plenty more
shit to deal with, but not as much a variety of it. It'd be easier to
get that into perspective I think, working on stuff. It's easier to
tear yourself away from drudgery or repetition than it is from fun
things that are stimulating. You're inspired to work out of boredom
more than you are out of when every day something amazing happens. Who
the fuck needs work? Life is really enjoyable. Why do you need to work
at it? So, that angle, I'm excited about too.
JK: What country are you most psyched to see?
TS: I don't know; I've never been to any of them, I've
thought a bit about it, but they all hold sort of an equal luster to me.
Everybody's been talking about Turkey as a place that this band's never
been to. That sounds pretty interesting. And Israel, they've been
saying - that sounds really amazing to me. I'd love to see those places.
Surely. Shit, I mean, what can you say? When this band tours, they tour everywhere. That's one of the greatest things, that the band seems to really go out of its way to branch off into places that bands don't
normally go to; they make the effort to go those places. And that's really great. That's exciting to me. JK: If you've looked on the Internet recently, you would
probably be shocked at what you saw, these huge "newsgroup" discussions
with people saying good and bad things about Faith No More, or arguing
about who's in Mr. Bungle, etc., and providing totally
incorrect information, if not just plain stupid. TS: Actually, yeah, I've seen that. It's amazing. RB: On America Online I go into the files and tell them
what's what; they're way off sometimes. And then I'll just post something,
and trying to set some... TS: My dad's been telling me he's been seeing Roddy on
the board and he's been really happy with what he's been saying; he's
been clearing a lot of shit up. My dad follows all of that stuff.
RB: It's very interesting.
JK: Seems like a lot more of people on the music
newsgroups that I read are all these clueless millions of high school
students and what not now. So the IQ of all the discussion groups seem
to be going down... RB: Yeah. That's the impression that I get on the computer. It's really dull. It's few and far between that you have like
any meaningful conversations or that you learn anything new. Not that
those people don't have anything to teach you, but it just seems like
very C+ conversations, just like... boring.
TS: I never wanted to touch that shit with a
tenfoot pole. I mean, cyberspace, alternate worlds and all
that - it sounds great, but I don't think that's what the Internet is.
I think it's fuckin' jackoff pool.
RB:It's just a big bathroom wall. Stupid comments... But there's some specialty groups that are pretty interesting. I went into these literary groups a couple of times, they were interesting... TS: Yeah, and leaving messages for major physicists in their mailbox and getting responses and stuff like that could be exciting...
RB = Roddy Bottum, keyboardist
TS = Trey Spruance, guitarist
TS: Hi.
RB (to Trey): Which one was
that?
TS (to Roddy): "Dirge."
JK: Nice tempo. Not too fast.
TS: Yeah, it plods.
RB: Pearl Jam. [Everyone laughs.] Pearl Jam
on mushrooms.
JK (to Trey): I love your
guitar solo on that.
RB: Just danced around. Moral support.
TS: He wrote choreography for the rest of us as well.
JK: How was that song written?
TS (stately): Inside the mind
of one man.
RB: Michael the singer wrote it.
RB: Late '80s, English feelgood. Mellow. White
wine. Wannabeblack vibe. [Laughter.]
TS: Wannafakepianotosoundreal
vibe. [More laughter.]
RB: I like that one. It's very psychotic.
RB: South Bay punk rock. [Laughter.]
JK: Yeah, suburban punk rock.
RB: Suburban punk rock. Green Day wannabe.
[Pauses.] Not quite Green Day, huh?
TS: Yeah, that's good. I was gonna say the Who.
JK: There were times when I thought Queen.
TS: Hmm, yeah.
RB (to Trey): What's "Ricochet"
again?
TS: Dare I say the name? "Nirvana."
RB: Oh.
RB: Bing bing bing.
RB: It sounds nice, doesn't it? It's very sexy.
JK: Who knows Portuguese?
TS: The guy who we consulted on the telephone.
RB: Ricardo.
RB: Everything from Feather Train to Sonic Youth.