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Rubella Ballet Interview... Zillah was interviewed at her flat, somewhere in the east end, on the 24th floor. You have had a lot of different line-ups, why Is this, let's start from the beginning? "I have got a history of the band written out somewhere if you want to know who was in the band, because there are a lot of different names. People have left mainly because once people get In a group they start doing it a lot more seriously, and it takes up a lot of their time, you can't go on holidays, you can't hold a job, it interferes with a lot of things if you do it properly. I mean we are our own roadies, managers and drivers, so everything we do we do ourselves. If we do a gig, we have a gig, we have to drive there ourselves, unpack the stuff, unload the gear, do the soundcheck, do the guest list and then we have to stay sober all night, because after the gig we have to pack everything, and I've got to drive home and unload the gear again. Just doing one gig takes us from 12 miday to 5 that morning from start to finish, so it's just too much of a commitment for some people. And apart from that at the beginning I had to do all the phoning to find a place to do a gig, and then I had to do the hassling about whether it would be a pound at the door, or �l.50, and then they would be saying "Oh you can't have it for a quid or else you won't get anything and you'll end up having to pay me", there's a lot of hassle and a lot ot money involved. That's the trouble there's some groups who don't take it seriously and just turn up to the gig and expect the equipment to be there, and then it's not, so then it's a fuck up, but we don't do that, because then people would have travelled down to see us, and we'd be sort of sitting there waiting for equipment to turn up. It's a lot of hard work and that's why a lot of people come and go." Gemma has left now, do you know why? "She left because it was taking up too much of her time and she wanted to try other things. She's been in the band since she was 11, and she's sort of missed out on things 11 year old's would do. I don't know what exactly she's doing now, she's changed her appearance and everything. She has cut her hair off, and she doesn't wear any make-up anymore, and she doesn't really know what clothes she wants to wear either." What's her brother doing now? "He used to be in Omega Tribe, he's always been sort of producing, which is why we done our single with Poison Girls, because he was in the band at the time and he wanted to do the production, so we let him, but I don't think he's doing it anymore." What kind of things do you write about? "Well it's not just anything, I mean there is a difference between my lyrics and sort of Bucks Fizz, they don't write lyrics, they have a songwriter do it for them, so they just perform what someone else has written for them. I sing about what I want to write about, something that affects me personally, it's not something that I've been told to write about, it's something that I want to say in a message, difference, that's what people tend to forget about when they say "Oh punk music should be fast", it's not it is a matter of just ordinary people trying to do their own music. It's better than someone telling you what you should be performing. There was no chance for people like us before, you know you'd have to go to a record company and sort it out, and they would tell you what was right or not, or they'd have their own daughters with songs written out to them by special song writers, where as now it's just a matter of people trying to do what they want to do, well most of the time anyway. And that's what it should be an alternative. I mean a lot of my songs are just experiences that I've had and I'd rather hear about other people's experiences than someone screeming someone else's lyrics. That's why I don't want to do covers, because it just ain't me. I think occasionally some cover songs are done really well, because they are Making something else of them. When we originally started off people were saying "They're dressed in all different colours and they're nothing like Crass", people thought we got up and deliberately did it like that, but we hadn't it was just us, and anyway as far as I'm concerned anyone who wants to sound like Crass must be stupid, because they might as well be Crass, you know Crass are Crass and you can't do anything about it. We don't want to sound like anybody else, except ourselves, because there's no point the other group would be better than us." What makes you laugh? "I think our band is a very happy band really, like when we go to Jungle we take the piss out of him all the time and have a Laugh, and he says we are the only band whoever came here and done that, all the other bands are really serious. We can't be that serious, I mean you've just got to laugh or else you might as well be killing yourself in the situation we are in all the time, we never have any money. One of the reasons for having a group is to go to gigs, our own gigs for nothing, you know you've just got to laugh at a lot of things. You meet other groups and other people worth meeting, and it gives you something to do." Who does all the drawings, and do you make your own clothes? "Me and Sid do all the drawings, and the clothes that's another thing, I mean it hasn't just happened because I got on stage, it's more noticeable now, more people know me, but I started when I was about 15. When I was first punk in 1976 there wasn't any clothes, there was only one store, and that was the Last Resort and that was a stall on Graham Road and on Petticoat Lane on Sunday's, that was the only place you could get punk clothes at that time. It's mostly skinhead clothes there but in those days it was punk." What about the Kings Road was it really different then? "Well yeah, you could only go to get clothes, and I didn't even know about that shop. I never went down Kings Road, the shop was called Sex then I think, I was only 15 at the time. Down Petticoat Lane at this one stall, before it was a shop, I see these two people, and one whose like in a silver space suit, and the girl was in like a short jumper, and I just sort of stared, It was so out of place, it was brilliant, but in 1976 there was nowhere really to buy your clothes, so I just used to make my own. I just thought I'd create sonething and see the finished product as my own, and better than all the shit that they want to push people into buying out there. You know I went a school where you always had to have the next latest fashion, and who's going to get it first, and she's got more money than you, because she's got next years fashion, and I never went in for that sort of thing, I preferred to make my own thing, because I can then say "Mine's better than yours, because I've created it, and it didn't cost me as much money", I mean I'm not a brilliant dress maker, I don't make clothes hell, I just put them together, if it looks original. I mean some of the first gigs we did at the Moonlight, I didn't have a sewing machine, so half way through the gig something would start coming un-done, it was really funny, you know try and find a safety pin in a moment like that." Have you had any other funny things like that happen? "Oh loads, Italy was a disaster, that's something I'd like to go in depth to explain the whole thing because it was pretty funny. I mean we wasn't looked after, just dumped really with a one way ticket. We went to Milan and a lot of other little places, and we didn't take much with us, because it was a one way ticket, and they didn't pay us at the end, so we had to really sort of argue with them, I mean we were left in a hallway to sleep with 5OO people in a squat, you couldn't drink the water because it had malaria in it, we were given nothing to eat, we were left to sleep on the floor with no blankets or anything, we had our sleeping bags which was lucky, we didn't get fed, the one day we managed to get out we got sunburned, so we were sleeping on the floor sunburnt and unfed. I mean if you can't drink the water for a day or two in that heat you feel really ill by the end of it and me and Sean were really ill it was good, but it was mainly men running the thing, and because they were Italian it made it really hard to explain, but me and Gemma wanted to go on stage and we wanted to do our make-up and our hair spiked up and we wanted to go to the toilet, privately, but they had one toilet between 500 people and there was so many people in there, and after the gig there was no place to wash, and after a gig and you can't wash and your all sweaty with make-up running down your face, and you've got to go to bed like that it's horrible, it just made you feel really ill. They didn't understand us girls, there were plates where you had to wash, and with not being able to drink the water I've already got kidney trouble and various things. It was just something that they didn't understand, because the way they were dressed they didn't wear any make-up or anything, and they didn't do their hair more than a mess. There were a few women but they were the type who didn't wear make-up. That's one of the times I really noticed about being a woman in a group, like the actual thing organized by men, I mean they don't realize that you don't want to go to a room full of 500 men. I mean they just sit there and wait for you to go to bed. And they are all watching you, waiting for you to get undressed. You have got to be nice to people, but get the unlucky person around me when I can't wash or anything, and you get someone who's going to think that I'm like that all the time, and it's really difficult. At the end, me and Gemma were losing out temper quite often." Do people ever laugh at your appearance? "Oh yeah, all the time. When I was young I'd always get that, and if they hit me I'd hit them back, and my dad would have to come and pick me up, so I started to learn how to drive when I was 16. When me and Sid go out I get alI the abuse, and I'II be the one who talks beck. When I'm alone and you get like sick guys trying to look up your skirt and that you get a bit scared, but I've only been really scared once when like I realized I had to go on the same lift as this one bloke." Whet's the funniest thing you have ever read about yourself? "Well we did an interview once with someone we knew quite well, and like once the fanzine come out and we read it, it was all wrong; and it said things that were completely untrue, and we were all sort of wondering why he would write all this crap, so after a couple of months we seen him at a gig, and he was like pissed drunk, and we asked him why he wrote all that stuff and he just sort of said "Well when I got home I realised that none of the interview had come out because my tape recorder wasn't working, so I made it all up." Are you political at all? "I don't want to make my political views public at this stage, because I think most of my followers know what we are about. I can't back up my political views without money, I mean if I had the money I'd go out and buy kidney machines and all that, sort of thing, but I can't do it right now, so I can't really say that, because it would be pretty fucked up. I mean a lot of groups have political statements to get them somewhere, and then when they are somewhere, and they've got what they want they stop there, so I'm not going to use that. One group in particular I think are using their political stand to get there, it's not Crass, it's another group, and they don't live by their politics and I know that for a fact, because being in a group you get to know more groups, and you get to know what they pretend to be in front of their audiences and it's a real piss off, I just think it's really horrible for the followers to find out what they believed in was so wrong. I think that if I had enough money that people would soon realize what my politcal views were, because I could make it real then, but I can't without money." How about anti-vivisection? "I'm not a vegetarian, I think how can people say don't kill an animal when people are killing each other, and letting children suffer, how can they ever be good enough to get around to animals. You have got to start treating each other decent, before you can treat animals decent. I don't believe in vivisection, I think it's cruel to hurt animals, but I also think it's just as cruel to hurt human beings. I mean some vegetarians just turn in the other direction and say "Poor horse", but they don't think about the person on the horse, who is just being blown up, I just think it's a false thing. My sister is a vegetarian and she has been ever since she was 11. This was 10 years ago when it wasn't trendy or anything, and the reason she turned vegetarian was because she realized the connection between meat and animals, and she didn't like it, so she didn't eat meat, but she never got around patronising people and all that crap. She doesn't wear leather, she doesn't 'have anything to do with any type of animal, but she doesn't say to me "Oh don't come around my house eating your chips and pie", because she knows I supported her when she needed it, I mean when we lived in the east end 10 years ago no one could believe her you know, so I just think that people who do it now a lot of them aren't for real. I don't know I could tell you this if you don't have the tape recorder on..." What is your most treasured possession? "My life, or otherwise materially my clothes I guess, because I made them myself. When I paint then it's like art, it takes me hours to paint them and get what I want." Your not with X-centrix anymore, how come? "We did the last single that was with X-centrix, you know the first one 'Ballet Dance', and after that they told us they weren't doing anymore records, the only records they'd do was their own, so we were stuck, you know we'd done the record and that was it, as far as their responsiblities went. In fact they don't exist anymore, they signed to Illuminated, you know the Poison Girls are X-centrix dont you? So they use to release their own stuff on their own label, and then they said to us they'd release our stuff on their own label, and that was with Pete working in the studio and everything. So after they said we couldn't do it with them anymore we were left with no record label, so eventually we decided we had better try and get what we wanted off another record company. We've had plenty of offers, but at the end we just signed with Jungle, just to do a one off to see how it would go, because a lot of them wanted 3 albums and 22 singles in 5 years for sort of �1,000, and you can't make a good record on that anymore. Also you don't know what the distribution is going to be like, if you've got to give then 10 LP's your stuck. Now we can't do another single with Jungle, because if we do anything else with Jungle it will have to be a single and an LP or else they won't do it. The reason we haven't done it is became the fucking cunts don't deserve it, they expect so much from us, for as little as possible that they can give us. It coat �1,000 something to make that record in 3 days which was all the money they meant to give us, but we didn't make anything out of it. At least we got a good record, where as in X-centix they got no money, we sold 6,000 and we haven't seen a penny of it, plus X-centrix you know "Freedom to the people and all that", but they don't give you any money, not a penny in 2 years or 3, and we done it in a 4 track studio and they ripped us off. Dan was producing it and everything, it was suppose to be a good thing for all of us you know, cheaply done so we could all make a bit of money to keep us going. Dan had left the band by then so he charged us double for his studio time, and we had to pay for it out of our own money, even though we were doing him a favour by letting him produce it. It was really a difficult situation as to what to do. because some people for some reason expect you to put out a record, it didn't matter if we were doing gigs and getting thousands of people turning up, we were nothing if we didn't have a record out, and yet if we put a record out on EMI everyone would have complained. We had the chance of doing that, but we didn't because we wanted to give people what they wanted, so at the moment we are trying to decide whether to do an LP and single with Jungle or not, because we've got the choice, it's either that or nothing, find some other label, but they would want more from us. I mean Anagram wanted 5 L.P'a and 7 singles over 7 years or something, who the fuck wants to stay with Anagram for 7 years? Why should we? And these independent labels are as bad as the major ones, except that they don't have any money, and at least the majors are just as bad and give you some money. Crass have asked us loads of times to do a single with them, but if we do a single with them it's even worse than the other labels, it's got to be a black and white cover, I mean have you ever seen a Crass record without that circle and line? No it's because you have got to have it. They shouldn't make rules if they are against them. They are not against rules, not their rules. That's what pisses me off about people thinking things about me, when they don't realize that a lot of people give me these rules and regulations, and saying it just to get somewhere, instead of believing it." You did a gig with Jungle at Heaven's, how did that go? "It was a disapointment really, I was really looking forward to it. It was like a big gig and we didn't arrange It, and it meant we we didn't have so much work to do, but Instead the stupid people, I mean they had never arranged a gig before in their lives, and it was stupid of me to think that they could do it. They gave everyone those free tickets, which was really good, but they didn't have enough money to pay for a decent PA, I mean If your going to promote your band, you've got to spend, and make them look good, but they gave out free tickets and made the bands look stupid. The P.A. was crap, so all the bands sounded bad, when we did the soundcheck there was all this noise on stage and he said it was us, but for every band that got on that night there was all this noise and feedback. It was terrible, awful, most of the people left. It was all badly organized, you know getting the bands on and off at the right time, we got on at 20 to 2 in the morning, so most people had gone home through half our set, I don't blame them either, we must of sounded terrible, so I said to Jungle "Good idea, but it was completely ruined." Do you think this present line-up will last? "I don't know I want it to be permanent. I get along with my, sister, she just learnt how to play bass 3 weeks ago, but she can play other instruments, so she's got musical ability. Gemma in all the time only ever made up one bass line, so I don't know we will just have to see, that's why we are doing this gig on Friday, to give her a chance." If you had one wish what would it be? I just wish everyone could have a decent life, so many people go through a shitty life, you know some people have got it made while others have nothing. I just wish everyone had the same opportunities, seems to make so much of a difference." Do you find it easier with another girl in the group? "I think it can be, but unfortunately Gemma got into her mother's feminism too much and anything Sid would say was wrong, which was stupid really, because she wouldn't argue with me, because I'm a woman. I don't take sides with Sid unless he is right. So if Gemma was right I'd take sides with her. I'm really upset about her leaving, but I think this time she threatened so many times, she was being a pain in the ass, so I said "If you do want to go, I don't want you to but", she use to say I don't want to play bass I want to be singer, so I said I'd play bass if I could, but I Just could'nt do it, maybe it's because of my fingernails. But another thing why guitarists would come aand go is that, they would think me and Gemma are just girls in the group, and just look good. they didn't expect me and Gemma to say anything, or to organize it all, or to argue with them." When you joined the band was it yours and Sid's idea? "No it was a very impulsive thing, we were living in Epping with Poison Girls, and they had their own studio for people to go in and mess around, so if you've got all day, because you have the facilities, and that's what I mean about opportunities, the only reason we ever became a band is because we had the opportunity, and took it. Our first gig with the Poison Girls at Stratford was pretty bad. A lot of skinheads turned up, British Movement ones, and I knew most of them, because I lived in the east end, and that didn't even stop them from seig heil and all that, but they didn't attack us because they did like us, which was lucky for me, that's all lucky. When Poison Girls came on they got attacked, end ever since that gig they told Dan and Gemma that she doesn't want them to do anymore gigs with Rubella Ballet, and because Dan and Gem were so young at the time they rebelled, and said they'd do whatever thery wanted we've been attacked by skinheads." Where is the best place to do a gig these days? "I like the Greyhound, because it's big, and it's nice to know that your not going to get ripped off at the end of the night, and it's not going to be too dear to get in, and all the bands have enough time, but recently the person who use to do the PA. has left, so it's not as good as it use to be, it use to be brilliant to play there. Apart from that our best ever gig was at the Tin Tan Club in Birmingham. where we were playing with Death Cult, and it was the first time we used the ultra-violet lights, and just as we walked out everyone was cheering, I couldn't believe it, it was a Death Cult tour, but they cheered us as if we were the headlining group, end all this was right through the set, they were dancing and cheering. Then Death Cult had a meeting and they told the P.A. people to fuck up our sound. they told the lighting people to as well, but we knew the people who did the lights, and because we were friendly to them they liked us and didn't like Death Cult." Do you think there is still a lot of competition among bands? "Yeah there is we always try to pay our support groups, but sometimes we get pissed off about paying them too much, because I'm the one who pays for the phone calls and organizes all the gear, and all they have to do is turn up, they don't have to unload or anything. We pay our support group's more than what Death Cult paid us, we got �15 to do the tour with them, we pay more for that in petrol. I think that one of the problems I found was because I was organizing the gigs they often would expect more from me, like if I was talking to them friendly they'd go "Oh could we have our money now", and they'd want lots of it, and I'd give it to then, and yet when they were doing a gig with somebody else they wouldn't even ask them, and that use to really bug me, because they were frightened of them they didn't ask them, and being friendly with me they'd often be nastier than to the people they were frightened of. So we have to take the shit a lot of the times, instead of saying Zillah is awful as a manager of Rubella Ballet. Whereas most bands like New Model Army have a manager, so it's the manager who throws you out of the dressing roon, not NMA. We don't really have time to write back to everyone, I like receiving letters though. But until you come I was on the phone all morning, after gone we'll be going to do a practice, then we'll be going to my moms to have some dinner there, then up the road to my sisters to get our bass amp, and then we've got to bring it home and up the stairs, I mean the bass amp is really big, then we've got to drag it down the road to the lift, then tomorrow we will have to get all the stuff ready for the gig. THE END. (FEMZINE #2 December 1984 ) Special thanx to Mish Bondage (Sado-Nation) for the scans & Mike Clarke (YIA/Decadent Few) for the photocopies....much obliged! |
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