Hump...The Topic Of The WeekDie...

The Week Of:
30 August, 1999
Hold Me Jim
Submitted By: Rox

"Is There A Need For Organized Labor In The 21st Century?"

...or anything else you'd like to talk about


There is a time and place for everything. As for the need for organized labor, I'm not sure. I don't think I know enough about the subject to offer an opinion.
However, it has bothered me when I have taken a job and am "made" to join the union (or else I don't get the job).

--CZ

Organized labor?
Is that like having a nurse there to say BREATHE!!!!!!!!!!! and PUSH!!!!!!!!!
Yes. The threat of organized labor is good. It keeps BIG business in line and keeps them from abusing labor too much.

--Shawn

I think that there is a definite need for organized labor especially outside of the U.S. Look at the way big business treats it's employees in third world countries. How many sweat shops does NIKE of Intel have in Asia? I personally don't know, but doesn't Kathy Lee Gifford have one over there?

--RobbaD

Dear Bahb,
I think it depends on the individual type of industry or market. When the U.S. was mainly focused on manufacturing and industry, I believe the concept of the "union" did serve a valuable role as the watchdog against greed and exploitation, the same way Civil Rights serve to protect us against our own "System", allowing for gain on all sides and maintaining a reasonably good standard of living.
If you disagree, take a look at what a lack of such an entity does for some of our third world neighbors. Living in Argentina and bouncing around Latin America, I see stuff that makes me thank god my dad joined his railroad union. We were very far from rich, but we did ok.
Now, however, as we move into the next century and are becoming more of a technological and service-oriented society, the role of a "union" becomes cloudy. How do you protect against exploitation of intelligence and innovation? When it comes to service, where the customer is #1, you either have what it takes to win the business or you find another line of work.
In a globally competitive market, we can no longer afford to protect the common denominator. It's a shitty thing to say, but it's the truth.

--Amado
(The Truth is what we're all about Amado--Rox)

Tough call here.
For those of you that know me and my past as a raving Marxist, the answer may seem obvious.
For those of you know me as the Corporate Whore, the answer may seem obvious as well.
As a former manager I am opposed to them favoring cooperation rather than confrontation, but as a humanitarian, I strongly support them. And as I was a humanitarian before I ever got into management I must say that the threat of Organized Labor does have a place in the world.
The bigger question is how long will we as a society want to pay the potentially inflationary costs associated with collective bargaining. Unions by their very nature are inflationary. They seek wage increases that may or may not be sustainable based on future economic performance.
If unions ask for a four percent increase when inflation is only three percent, that increase will have an inflationary outcome for which we all will pay.
I still feel pay increases should be based on mostly on individual merit, and not wholly on the CPI.
For those of you screaming at me, take a look at your 401(k), and look at how many companies in which you have a stake. If these companies suffer (i.e. go out on strike) you too will suffer. It is in YOUR best interests that management and labor work well together, and work stoppages are prevented, and that costs are well-managed.
Growing up in the Sacramento Valley, I've also seen the most appalling of our domestic sweatshops better known as the agriculture industry, and am thankful for the courage of men like Cesar Chavez.
I think unions have had a tremendous impact in improving working conditions, but see them now with a more jaded perspective. I also feel that having both governmental regualtory agencies and labor committees duplicates matters and at times confounds growth.
One reason that so much manufacturing has moved overseas is that the domestic labor market is too expensive. This is wholly due to the success of Organized Labor.
The processor that drives the computer on which you are reading this costs about $150 to produce (including profit for the manufacturer). Most of the labor that went into making it cost the supplier about $10 a day per person. Would YOU take that kind of job? You certainly value having a low-cost computer, but if that chip were made in the US, it would probably cost $1000 or more. Would that be acceptable to YOU? Would YOU be able to afford a computer if that were the case?
If I ran a manufacturing business and knew that for economic survival I had to watch every penny in order to manufacture a product that was priced as low as possible, I would seek out the lowest labor cost available. If that makes me an asshole, than so be it. Then again one gets into business with the notion of making money as the prime driver. Providing jobs is a positive spin-off, but the profit motive is still number one.
Most management are scared of the union Hydra, as it threatens their economic viability. My experience with most unions is that they increase the cost structure by about 20-30% with no real savings anywhere else. They also tend to stagnate productivity, and are in my mind inherently devisive at a social level.
There is an automatic "Us-Them" mindset that at a subliminal level negatively affects long-term productivity.
They also add a level of bureaucracy that in the 90's is prohibitive to the rapid change that is sometimes needed for economic survival.
But as some managers will screw people in order to save their own job, or put more money in their own pocket, there IS a need for organized labor, mostly to protect the rights and safety of the worker.
I think that in the "new" economy, unions can have a diminishing impact. But there must be a genuine effort on the part of Management to treat Labor fairly.
If not the threat of Organization will loom quickly before them. And over time, this will have a debilitating impact on the current economic boom.
I'm not sure if Unions per se are the answer. I think a committment to growth on both sides of the labor wall is needed. Human nature dictates that Business will screw labor in order to squeeze every penny possible, and labor will always want to do less work for more money.
I mean greed is good. But there must be a partnership where both sides see that they are co-dependent on each other for long-term sustainable growth and survival. Entrepreneurs need skilled trained motivated workers, and workers need competent management that will point business in the direction of continued success, and that will reward them for mutual success, and protect their safety while on the job.
At a personal level, I think most Unions are corrupt and self-serving, but in some industries they do provide a valuable service, and as such will and must survive into the 21st Century and beyond as a very necessary evil.

--Rox

absolutely. in most cases, it is unfortunate that corporate america can not manage itself and the business it is in without finding ways to cut and slash the pay and benefits of employees, especially with merger mania (sic!).
organizations of all sizes and types are too bottom line driven, organized labor can provide the necessary check that our lost consciences should be giving us.
my only problem with organized labor is when it too loses touch with reality and starts to screw the people it is designed to protect, which happens more than they will admit and we realize.
fair is fair, unless you're hourly. late,

-- the white guy

Previous Topics:

The Week Of:
23 August, 1999
Submitted By: Bill

"If You Could Be A Superhero, What Would Your Name Be, And What Would Be Your Superpower?"

I'd be able to become any animal I needed to save another animal in jeopardy. Whether it be an animal being abused, or in a dangerous situation. Rescue an animal caught in a bind. My superhero's name would be SABLE and my main character would be a flying black panther. But again, I could change in to any animal form I desire.

--Camille

Dear Bahb,
I rather fancy the thought of being - "Captain Ecstasy"!
Able to give spontaneous orgasms by the mere power of thought.
Imagine if you will - a crime in progress - Captain Ecstasy's orgasmic powers plunges the thugs into a post coital slumber, avoiding unnecessary violence.
Imagine the latest Indian-Pakistani nuclear conflagration being blissfully resolved by a few quickies.
The world would be a wonderfully loose place to be indeed...plus I would also probably have a lot "friends"...

--A

I think I would be CoqBlahkur.
I would scour the countryside hunting for members of my arch-enemies, the neo-fraternalistic order MohRawn.
These soul-less deviants relentlessly spew entendre-laden cliches at unsuspecting females in an attempt to "know" them, and as a cultural blight must be stopped.
As this threatens the future integrity of the gene pool, I would feel honor bound to spray them with my Hyper-Ionic Saline Gun® which would effectively salt them up, and thus chemically stabilize the situation.
For those rare times when I encountered a bitter personality, I would lob one of the brie puffs (supplied by Master Cheesemaker Antonio) hanging from my well-worn bandoliers at the offending parties to neutralize their acidic behaviour.
My costume would shift to the most unfashionable attire for each moment, though each variation would feature a small "7" over the heart. This would signify my commitment to proper pH--nothing too base or too acidic, and would also be a passing tribute to T. Moran.
This costume would have the effect of lulling the troublemaking parties into a false sense of security with my non-threatening "old skool geek" attire.
Then at the very moment where they felt victory was within their grasp, they would be coated with a fine mist of kharmic justice, thus freeing the potential victim from at least 20 more minutes of mindless converstaion, or even worse, poorly executed foreplay-lacking carnal knowledge.

--Rox

If I was a superhero, I would be Boogerman.
I would have boogers that I could flick at my arch-enemies and they would pierce any armor that they were wearing.
The downside, of course, to being Boogerman is that I could only fight crime in dry climates, so I'd have to move to Las Vegas or Arizona for year-round crime fighting. Arizona wouldn't be so bad if Southern California dropped into the Pacific Ocean, cause then my Booger Cave could be in Arizona Bay, and the commute wouldn't be so bad...

--Andy

Sadly I had a super hero created for me but somehow it ended up in "Mystery Men" I was The Bowler. I got my super bowling strength from any form of beer and Marlboro Lights. My uniform consisted of jeans, white undershirt, hawaiian shirt (open and untucked), and of course bowling shoes. I would stop evil with my bowling prowess and my nemsises would fall like pins.

--Thunder
(You might also want to check out "The Big Lebowski" for bowling superheros--Rox)

The Week Of:
16 August, 1999
Submitted By: Shawn

"Best dream you ever had?"

Bob,
The best dream I ever had was and still is my wife.

--Pablo
(And such a sweet dream at that, JP--Rox)

My best dream had me breaking through the line and scoring a long touchdown. I only remember breaking twice and then running forever and finally scoring.
I remember waking up next day looking out my window and thinking.....DAMN!!!!! It was only a dream.

--Shawn
(The good thing about dreams like that is no one tries to take out your knees, or give you an ear-hole head slap--Rox)

The best dream?most vivid?most interesting?or best like a wet dream where you wake up clean?
k, my favorite dream was a strange dream, quite a few years ago, and I told the story so many times, to so many people, that it remained in my memory as fresh today as the morning I woke up with it for the first time. It was the morning of Pearl Harbor, and my (then) boyfriend and I were standing atop of a dirt hill, dark brown earth hill, in a boat, rowing nowhere. I started to hear the bombs, got out like I knew we were not in water, and ran across the peak of the hill to the edge were there were large dark boats, with many uniformed men and women staring straight ahead. I turned around, and in the boat there was my mother who was rowing away from me. Note: it just happens that my boyfriend's birthday falls on Pearl Harbor day.
That's all, kinda weird, but I can still see it in my mind's eye, the colors @ dusk were beautiful.

--soigne

I find that my "flying" dreams are the most pleasant and I usually wake up pretty relaxed. General scenario is myself swooping through terrain (sans aircraft, of course) like a forest or a city and just groovin on the moment. I have this weird thing about spitting on peoples heads though...
Of course, there's your flavor-of-the-month erotic fantasy as a strong runner up. Miss August happens to be Stacy, the strong willed Sicilian secretary on Spin City...fugget abbat it!

--A
(Strong-willed? Sicilian? What's her name again A? You might also want to rent "Brazil"--Rox)

The American Dream

--Thunder
(Thanks Zack--Rox)

Other than a rather pleasant, nearly year-long dream, my dreams tend to fall into three categories:
A) Those which I don't remember (When I drank, Sierra Nevada Pale Ale used to yield some doozies...Or maybe it was the Skyy Kami's)
B) Those which end up becoming a deja-vu reality (which sux when it's a "bad" thing that results)
C) Those which prompt me to change my shorts.

--Rox

Considering the fact that it's hump day and I'm just now getting this mail along with 35 others that have piled up and that my brain is so mushy that I can't seem to do my multiplication tables...ok, yes I'm whining... Seeing as I can't remember a time that I had a good dream, let alone a great one, I'll just relay that last night I awoke from a nightmare invloving a three-hole punch and an unsolvable algebraic equation. Can you tell that school is back in session?!

~~waivemaster flash (sans The Furious Five...or Melle Mel)

One time I woke up, my boxers were wet and I think I had a smile on my face.
Does that count?

--RobbaD


Morons have visited since 17 August, 1999

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